On MSNBC interview : Nader running

[jimmie]

Unable to find link yet

Amazing he's running again.

[bowens43]

1. wow. what a dumbass. he is directly responsible for the bush years.

this washed up has been needs to sit down and STFU.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

4. No.

And anyone repeating that nonsense needs to look at the facts. Nader was not responsible for the Supreme court decision, Nader was not responsible for Gore giving in so easily and Nader was not responsible for Katherine Harris.

Quit letting the Republicans who stole that election off the hook with this nonsense!!

[dionysus]

5. lol, cool story bro...

i can't believe people are still defending what that douchebag did...

[ForgoTheConsequence]

7. Who defended it?

I know you like to have Nader as the boogie man while ignoring the fact that the election was systematically stolen by the Florida Republican establishment, but the facts are the facts.

Gore won the popular vote, if Nader wouldn't have ran Gore still would have won the popular vote. You can blame Nader all you want but while your busy crying about Nader like a child the Republican party is steeling elections and this country out from underneath us.

[virtualobserver]

57. it wouldn't have been close enough to steal if Nader had sincerely endorsed Gore

and it wouldn't have been close at all if Gore hadn't run away from Clinton

Nader's "not a dime's worth of difference" is an argument of a purist.,though and has worn thin.
'

[hfojvt]

65. Was New Hampshire stolen?

Hint: Gore lost New Hampshire by 7,211 votes. Hiow many did Nader take in New Hampshire?

Hint: It was 22,198 more than enough to ensure a Gore win. And those 4 electoral votes would again make Gore win irregardless of what happened in Florida.

[Spider Jerusalem]

83. This makes a false assumption.

You presume those 29,409 Nader voters in New Hampshire would have voted for Gore had Nader not been in the race. I don't really think that can be assumed. They may have voted for some other third-party candidate, or not voted at all.

[white_wolf]

12. I can't believe people are still blaming Nader for what the Court did.

They appointed Bush, not Nader. Besides, if Gore wasn't able to earn the votes of Nader supporters than he didn't deserve them, as simple as that. Perhaps you should get mad at Gore for being a weak candidate.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

16. They wont blame Gore.

Or the Supreme court. In their minds Gore was ENTITLED to those votes.

[Javaman]

26. sandra day o'conner will forever be dead to me.

may she rot in hell on a slow spit.

[aquart]

45. She's a woman. She get to turn the spit that Rehnquist is roasting on.

[aquart]

34. Since he was the one they voted for, then YES, he was.

Welcome to DU.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. So the USSC did not make that decision?

Cool.

And they did not throw thousands off the rolls...even cooler.

The only thing I disagree is that gore gave up easily, since after the court it was a box of ammo...but it wasn't Nader who forced the justices to take the case. I guess in this world view Nader was behind the brooks brother riot too.

Fortunately the history of this is not written by Duers with axe to grind. Yes he plays a role, but a minor role.

And your story excuses the Republicans at all levels of government.

[surfdog]

48. The question is ...

Why is he running for president ?

Nader is well aware that he can't win any states much less the nomination

If he knows he can't win then why is he running ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. The fact that you framed this qusation the way you did

Anyway, for the same reason Ron Paul is running. It is NOT about the WH... it is about a movement, and giving the choice to people to vote tehir conscience, what political scientists call a protest vote.

For the record, and it is a matter of degree, Ron Paul has been a tad more effective in buidling his movement, but he started not for the libertarian edge, no you silly wabbit, but with paleo cons... they have been there, sleeping, for a long time.

The US has had these perennial candidates throughout it's history, especially the latter part of the 20th century.

[FSogol]

51. Yeah, pretty ridiculous. I guess it is "Nader Defenders Coming Out of the Woodwork Day" on DU.

Ralph Nader

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. I prefer to lay blame where it exists

there was a coup, so how about we talk about the WHY and WHO? Nader is incidental, or was he behind Catherine Harris's two year effort to clean up the voter rolls in Florida from them crimilmals, some of whom who had YET to commit a crime?

I guess Ralph was the head of the office of Pre-Crime.

[FSogol]

58. Ralph Nader - Useful Idiot. Nader Supporters - Plain-old Idiots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Given that Gore WON and that the count from the PRESS released on Sept 11

yes THAT Septtember 11, had him win Florida, you can keep your fantasy.

I am glad HISTORIANS will lay blame where it lays... and Nader IS incidental to the story.

But I love HOW you speak of your fellow Americans.

Look, there was a COUP...

Here how it was carried out.

First clean voter rolls... that see Harris.

Second, since you cleaned the rolls and made sure undesirables did not vote.

Third, makes a very confusing ballot, where even Buchannan was shocked to get all those votes from Jewish Voters... I mean was Buchannan part of that conspiracy too?

Fourth... bring CONGRESSIONAL STAFF down from DC and esentially get a riot going... you remember that, RIGHT?

FIfth, get the USSC to do something it has NEVER ever done in it's history, intervene in a state matter, as in an election, when the STATE Supreme Court decided to ALLOW the votes to continue.

Nader was incidental, but do carry on.

Republicans learned a lesson from this, not quite the same you learned. While you blame ONE person for this, they are still hard at work fixing elections. GOOD JOB!!!!

[FSogol]

64. I'm not blaming Nader, I'm ridiculing his supporters on DU.

You should respond to what people type, not what you suppose their motivations to be. Did I say ANYTHING at all what you are rattling on about?

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Again, I am glad how you talk of your fellow Americans

By the way I will defend the right of any ELIGIBLE American to run for the Presidency, and for any AMERICAN to vote for whoever they decide to vote for.

That is what democracy looks like... the real thing.

My personal people to hate are not even people... they are the Transnational Corporations who have taken over many of the funcitons of government. Incidentally that is one thing I happen to agree with Nader. When he brings that issue up he is absolutley and completely correct...

What is astounding to me is how people fix on Nader (a tree) and miss the dang forest

[FSogol]

69. Laughable

1. Nader or any other clown is more than welcome to run for President. I did not suggest suppressing anyone from running.
2. You and anyone else are more than welcome to vote for whatever clown you want. Nowhere in any post did I suggest otherwise.
3. Spare me your self righteous indignation. You make so many suppositions about my posts, I'm not even sure you are responding to the right person. If you are trying to read between lines, you aren't very good at it.

PS. Have fun throwing your vote down a rat hole while sitting on a self-inflated high horse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Alas you are assuming that if I defend his right to run by any eligible American...

and the right of people to use their vote as a protest vote that I have. For the record I voted IN CALIFORNIA for Gore in 2000...

This is actually quite telling about you, not me.

So while you are fixed on Nader, the Republcians continue to supress the vote using some of the same techniques used in Florida. They did learn the lesson... and you are falling for the classic... SQUIRREL, err distraction tactic.

So instead of arguing about the matter at hand, you chose to make it personal and about me. This is telling that perhaps you really KNOW that I am onto something when I say you are fixed on the tree, in this case Nader, and not the forest, Republican using voter supression techniques. Extending this to, using an activist Court, which has become worst, and all the rest of the techniques.

I hope you are never on the receiving end of an attempt to suppress your vote. I was, in 2004, and these days I carry a damn fracking passport when I go vote. Care to figure out why? Partly yes, people going SQUIRREL when we talk about voting.

[dionysus]

80. truth.

[DefenseLawyer]

6. It's not an either/or proposition

Yes Gore ran a bad campaign, yes the election was stolen, yes Bush v. Gore was a despicable legal decision, but you can't rationally look at the numbers in Florida and say that Nader made no difference in what happened. It's called math.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

11. Math.

Does that math include those that wouldn't have voted or those that would have voted for Bush is Nader hadn't been on the ticket? I know plenty of people who were so fed up with things that had they not voted for Nader they wouldn't have voted at all.

What a lot of Democrats ignore is that they ARE NOT entitled to those votes that Nader receives. And it takes a lot of balls to tell someone that they shouldn't be allowed to vote for their preferred candidate because it might screw things up for your own political agenda.

A vote for Nader doesn't necessarily mean a vote for Obama if Nader doesn't run.






And yes I am an Obama supporter and have voted Democrat my whole life, I'm also realistic.

[DefenseLawyer]

20. So you are telling me I shouldn't assume that 544 of the 97,488 that voted Nader

wouldn't have otherwise voted for Gore? 544 out of 97,488. I agree that isn't not the only reason things ended up how they ended up, but come on. 544 of 97,488. And for what it's worth, I voted for Nader in what was a meaningless election in Indiana, so I was one of those disgruntled voters on the left. With all the other factors you name it's still pretty dumb to say Nader didn't factor in to what happened.

[Javaman]

29. reread what you wrote...

544 votes out of 97,488?

are you trying to honestly predict who the votes would have gone to?

if nader hadn't run, 97,488 votes would have been up for grabs.

no one on this earth can honestly predict how those people would have sided. many people that voted for nader were repukes.

if you can break down the votes by former party affiliation, that is another story, but alas, you can not.

so to say that nader was the spoiler because of 544 votes is very incorrect.

bottom line: all the votes weren't counted. katherine harris made sure of that. Then the final nail was put in the coffin by sandra day o'conner (may she rot in hell).

the rest is nothing more that blather.

[DefenseLawyer]

39. Have it your way, Chief.

But as for me, I can "honestly predict" that more than enough of the votes Nader got in Florida would have gone to Gore to change the outcome. You are free to assume that none of them would have voted or they all would have voted for Bush or whatever other fantastic scenario you can convince yourself of. As Wolf Blitzer would say, we'll have to leave it there.

[Javaman]

41. It's not my way. I can't predict how they would have voted

and neither can you.

if they voted for a third party candidate, what honestly makes you believe they would have voted for Gore?

Gore ran a bad campaign, that is no secret or mystery.

It should have been a no contest, but alas it wasn't.

That aside. I'm always amazed as to why people choose to blame nader, who was exercizing his constitutional rights to run for office, when harris and the supreme court violated the constitution, yet they get a free pass by those pissed off at nader.

crazy.

[DefenseLawyer]

42. It's not about "blame"

you are creating a false premise in order to defend Nader. "If you fault Nader, you are giving the Supreme Court a pass". No it's not an either or proposition. It would be foolish to say that Ralph Nader's campaign alone was to "blame". I know I didn't say that, I don't think anyone said that. It is just as foolish to say Nader didn't play a role. Okay, I think this topic is officially played. Best of luck with Nader 2012.

[October]

47. +1 /nt

[Javaman]

55. so by you giving him a +1 means you think I'm a nader supporter????

look at my responce to his odd assurtion.

And if you are too lazy to look, I voted for Gore.

[October]

89. Wow. Way to jump to conclusions and assume I'm lazy.

I support the notion that "It is just as foolish to say Nader didn't play a role."

Like many, I was disappointed in the Gore campaign and SCOTUS -- not to forget Florida.

[Javaman]

50. 1) I'm not defending nader...

2) it's not a false premise.

I voted Gore and frankly he ran a crappy campaign. That is what lost him the election.

nader can run for anything he wants, I'm not defending him, I'm defending his constitutional right to run for anything he wants.

to think he acted as a spoiler in what was once honest race, prior to the brooks brothers riot, katherine harris and the supremes getting involved, is odd.

if the 90k people that voted for him thought he was a good candidate than it was up to Gore to convince them otherwise.

That's how it works.

to try and label me a "nader supporter or defender" can be looked upon as a violatin of the DU rules. So please don't pass judgement on me, it's very unattractive and to the say the very least, colossally wrong.

I support the constitution. period.

[DefenseLawyer]

72. Saying he had the right to run

is a far cry from what you originally said, which was that his candidacy had no impact on what happened in Florida. You're not going to get an argument from me that he had a right to run or that people who voted for him had a right to do so (I voted for him) or that Gore ran a misguided campaign. None of that changes the numbers and none of that makes what you originally said any less implausible.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

75. Doesn't matter.

He wasn't entitled to those votes. If Gore needed those votes he should have earned them.

[DefenseLawyer]

76. If Gore had earned the votes? If my Aunt had a dick she'd be my Uncle

I'm not talking about what if, I'm talking about what was. Just the facts. Just the numbers. Just the math. It is just silly for you folks to keep acting like Nader wasn't a factor in the election. He was. End of story. Keep talking among yourselves. I'm out.

[One of the 99]

85. Gore didn't run a bad campaign

He was 18% point down vs. Bush at the start of 2000 and he won the popular vote. It is just a myth that Gore ran a bad campaign that is pushed by Nader supporters who don't want to take responsiblity for their role in helping Bush steal that election.

[DefenseLawyer]

86. Yeah well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man

He ran away from Clinton, away from the environment and away from unions. He failed to aggressively fight back against the "invented the Internet" and the ongoing slew of bullshit stories that made him out to be a liar. Oh and he picked Joe Lieberman as his VP. Do you not remember the lieberman Cheney lovefest of a "debate"? He ran a horrible campaign. Sorry.

[One of the 99]

90. Doesn't change the fact

that he was 18% points down in the polls to Bush, had the national media against him and still won the national vote. And he would have been the clear winner in Florida if not for Nader.

[demosincebirth]

10. No matter what spin you put on it he cost Gore the election in 2000. If it wasn't for him we

wouldn't know, today, who Katherine Harris was.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

14. Pathetic.

And this is why we're getting robbed blind in this country. Its easier to have a single scapegoat than root out the real problem. Americans love things simple.

[demosincebirth]

23. You're the one that's pathetic. I'm not the one that's getting flamed. Maybe you're blinded by

your love for Nader.

[Javaman]

30. I don't know.

from everything the poster wrote, I don't see in the least how the poster supports nader.

It's odd, by claiming that nader wasn't the spoiler, the poster is now a nader supporter?

that's some interesting logic.

all the votes weren't counted, between the brooks brothers riot and katherine harris, they took care of that.

Then the final nail was driven home by sandra day o'conner by violating the constitution.

so I guess, it's better to target nader than those who actually violated the law of the land.

interesting.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

74. Never voted for him.

At least be able to have an honest debate. Accusing me of "loving Nader" is like me accusing you of defending Republicans. Gore was never entitled to those votes. You can cry about it all you want but he wasn't.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

36. It was a perfect storm

Nader was just one tool of many to set up the theft and give us George W Bush. I don't blame him alone, but fuck him and his "They are all the same" attitude.

[dionysus]

81. something is, for sure. nt

[xxqqqzme]

73. The title of the court case was

Bush v Gore - Which means Gore did not give up - the Florida Court ordered the recount to proceed. dumbya took it to SCOTUS. The rethugs were going to have that election/white house come hell or high water.

[One of the 99]

84. Nader was responsible

for making the election so close in key states. If not for Nader there would have been no Supreme Court decision and nother Harris had done would have mattered.

[Ter]

92. Define "stole"

I doubt they planned it, however I think they tried hard to stop the recounts. A day before the election in 2000, I think they all thought they would outright win Florida. I did, and was shocked it was that close.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Nader didn't cause Gore to fail to get the votes of the left in Florida.

It's the politician's job to appeal to voters. Gore didn't.

[Javaman]

31. yes and no.

yes he ran a bad compaign, but no, all the votes weren't counted (thanks to katherine harris and brooks brothers riot) and sandra day o'conner violating the constitution.

[Liberal_in_LA]

43. yep

[Better Believe It]

59. Right. The 2000 election wasn't stolen and the Supreme Court had nothing to do with it.

Thanks for a talking point.

Republicans of course also claim the 2000 election wasn't stolen and that Gore lost.

[applegrove]

77. I wish he would too.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. Meh.

You would think in the last few decades, he could have run for any number of offices if he really cared to influence the political spectrum.

As it is, he has joined the ranks of periodic cicada.

[Demonaut]

15. my thoughts exactly, why run just for Pres unless to act as a spoiler

he's had plenty of time to organize a party and attempt to place people in office but he has not


FUCK OFF NADER!!

[Javaman]

32. +1 nt

[madamesilverspurs]

3. Ick.

I still miss my Corvair.

[DefenseLawyer]

8. He gladly takes contributions from Republicans

that's all you need to know about Mr. Nader.

[sharp_stick]

9. Oh yippee

what would an election cycle be without that egomaniacal douche-canoe running again.

[HappyMe]

13. Oh fuck him.

Ridiculous old fool.

[Chorophyll]

18. I'll suspend my reaction until this is confirmed, but

if it is, my reaction will look something like this:

[Alexander]

19. In 2004 he got 0.38% of the vote. In 2008 he got 0.56% of the vote.

People have stopped paying attention to Ralph Nader. I expect he'll get less than 1% of the vote if he runs this time.

[jimmie]

21. Wait till the debates

Thal will be really interesting.

[Alexander]

63. The debates he won't be participating in?

[Javaman]

33. Yeah, he's really zooming up the charts. nt

[bluestate10]

79. Bush won Florida and the Presidency by just over 1,000 votes, out of millions cast.

Nader won 3800 votes in Florida. It is tough to disprove the negative that the naderites will make that no one can prove that those 3500 votes would have gone to Gore, but the naderites fucking can't prove that those votes would not have gone to Gore. Fuck Nader and fuck his defenders.

[Alexander]

91. Bush "won" Florida by 537 votes. Nader won over 97,000 votes.

Polls throughout the campaign consistently showed if Nader wasn't in the race, about 50% of his votes would've gone to Gore, 25% to Bush, and 25% would have stayed home.

Furthermore, Nader promised not to campaign in swing states, and then ultimately changed his mind. He also at one point admitted he hoped Bush got elected.

I think when you take those totals and the poll percentages, the evidence is pretty clear that Nader siphoned off quite a few votes that would've gone to Gore instead, and made Florida in play for Republican theft.

Applying the percentages to New Hampshire, Gore would still have lost the state - but only by the barest of margins, a mere 1400 vote difference.

[maddezmom]

22. I've been watching and didn't hear it. Are you sure you don't mean Bob Kerrey is considering

another run?
http://www.kcautv.com/story/17045814/bob-kerrey-registers-to-vote-in-nebraska

[Renew Deal]

24. He's a modern day Lyndon Larouche

I'm sure that like Larouche, he'll find some suckers and morons to support him.

[Sinistrous]

25. ..

[bigwillq]

27. Good for him.

If he meets the requirements, then he is certainly free to run. This is how our system works.
I won't be voting for him. But good luck, Mr. Nader.

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. The Koch Bros. have deep DEEP pockets.

[craigmatic]

37. He's running for what?

By now he seems more like an egotist than as a crusader for the little guy. I wish he'd do something useful and run for congress. That's a race he can win.

[Odin2005]

38. Fuck Nader.

[Arkana]

40. Seriously, Ralph?

I'd think that if Ralph Nader was so smart he'd realize these quixotic Presidential campaigns pale in the face of what else he could do with his time.

[spanone]

44. yawn....zzzzzzzzzzz

[Rex]

46. from another pie to the face?

nt.

[Cleita]

49. I doubt anyone will take him seriously this time around. n/t

[Raine1967]

52. Anyone have a link? Buehler? Buehler? eom

[MineralMan]

56. Running? I hope he got an OK from the doc to do that.

Running at his age can be iffy.

Oh..wait...you meant running for President. Never mind.

[RebelOne]

60. I do not understamd why he keeps running.

He knows he will never win. I think he just wants to throw a monkey wrench in the presidenial elections.

[Arugula Latte]

62. He would have been able to accomplish so much more if he'd stayed a anti-corporate crusader.

Running for prez just backfires.

[graywarrior]

67. What a fucking joke

[marlakay]

68. anyone who votes for him now doesn't understand

what the right will do to us…wonder what they are paying him to run…no way to check the romney pacs for that!

[itsrobert]

71. Looks like GOP dirty tricks spent some cash

Nader, enjoy your loot.

[bluestate10]

78. Only a fool would vote for Nader given what is at stake. nt

[DevonRex]

82. Fuck Nader.

He's a narcissistic slime ball.

[Bruce Wayne]

87. This seems relevent

I'm being ironic.

Seriously, I hope they paid him well.

[magical thyme]

88. and water is wet. Is a negative vote possible?

It may be the first time in history someone gains -x% of the vote....

I don't blame him for the stolen election. But I would never in a million years vote for him. I can't imagine anybody else would either...