What about "punishing" Syria?

[cali]

How does Syria giving up its chemical weapons stores, constitute "punishment" as delineated repeatedly by the administration?

Secretary of State John Kerry made an impassioned case for punishing Syria today, stating that a chemical attack by the regime of President Bashar al-Assad killed 1,429 people, a toll that he said included 426 children.

<snip>

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wrapping-syria-chemical-inspection-early/story?id=20115852

National Security Adviser Susan E. Rice made a forceful case Monday for the Obama administration’s pursuit of military strikes on Syria, arguing that failing to respond strongly to alleged chemical weapons use would cast doubt on the United States’ willingness to defend its interests.

If the nation does not punish Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for the Aug. 21 attacks near Damascus, Rice said, it “could indicate the United States is not prepared to use the full range of tools necessary to keep our country safe.”

<snip>
In her address at the think tank, Rice, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who has advocated a tough stance on Syria, stepped up the administration’s rhetoric by warning that America’s enemies would become emboldened if Congress fails to approve the use-of-force resolution.

She suggested that the rulers of Iran and North Korea, countries with nuclear weapons ambitions, are closely watching the deliberations this week.

<snip>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-adviser-susan-rice-pushes-presidents-case-for-strike-against-syria/2013/09/09/92edd2e4-196f-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/29/syria-crisis-usa-obama-idINDEE97R0I320130829

Look, I think it's a good thing that President Obama can move away from a vote in Congress, but I think it's patently absurd to suggest that this was some masterful game of chess and this was the goal all along. There's a ton of evidence that contradicts that.

[morningfog]

1. There was also the goal of removing Assad and tipping

the balance. We aren't done is Syria. We are just getting started, really. The punitive rationale was never clear or legal.

I guess the argument could be made that it is punishment to take the weapons, but that is a weak argument compared to what was being proposed.

[FarCenter]

14. But by now the alternative is worse than leaving Asad in power

The alternative is Islamist Jihadis in power. The Free Syrian Army is ineffective and not in control of the opposition.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. All right-thinking people know that

a red line can only mean: you ask someone else to ask someone to do something you want.

Only people who salivate over the thought of Rand Paul and Vladimir Putin Jell-O wrestling together would infer it meant some form of direct action on the part of the nation issuing the ultimatum. You just don't understand the complexities of high diplomacy in the international arena. You just hate Obama and wanted to see him fail in a Iraq-like war.

ADMIT IT!

[Schema Thing]

3. you say that sarcastically, but it seems about right.

I think Cali is confusing the words "punishment" and "revenge". Punishment is a way to stop an action.

[cali]

4. I think you have no clue as to what the word punishment means

you claim punishment means "a way to stop an action". It does not. Furthermore, in the context used by the President and administration officials it was specifically relating to military action.

inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, esp. a transgression of a legal or moral code.

pun·ish (pnsh)
v. pun·ished, pun·ish·ing, pun·ish·es
v.tr.
1. To subject to a penalty for an offense, sin, or fault.
2. To inflict a penalty for (an offense).
3. To handle roughly; hurt: My boots were punished by our long trek through the desert.
v.intr.
To exact or mete out punishment.
[Middle English punissen, punishen, from Old French punir, puniss-, from Latin poenre, pnre, from poena, punishment, from Greek poin; see kwei-1 in Indo-European roots.]
punish·a·bili·ty n.
punish·a·ble adj.
punish·er n.
Synonyms: punish, correct, chastise, discipline, castigate, penalize
These verbs mean to subject a person to something negative for an offense, sin, or fault. Punish is the least specific: The principal punished the students who were caught cheating.
To correct is to punish so that the offender will mend his or her ways: Regulations formerly permitted prison wardens to correct unruly inmates.
Chastise implies either corporal punishment or a verbal rebuke, as a means of effecting improvement in behavior: I chastised the bully by giving him a thrashing. The sarcastic child was roundly chastised for insolence.
Discipline stresses punishment inflicted by an authority in order to control or to eliminate unacceptable conduct: The worker was disciplined for insubordination.
Castigate means to censure or criticize severely, often in public: The judge castigated the attorney for badgering the witness.
Penalize usually implies the forfeiture of money or of a privilege or gain because rules or regulations have been broken: Those who file their income-tax returns late will be penalized.

<snip>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/punish

[Savannahmann]

6. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[geek tragedy]

5. Giving up his chemical weapons arsenal is a blow to his war efforts.

He no longer will have that as an option, and the rebels will know it's no longer an option. Before, he had the option of using and that had to play a role in rebel thinking. Whoever used them against the rebels did so for a reason.

[cali]

7. It also gives Assad plenty of time to stall a military strike which

would be a greater blow to his war efforts.

[geek tragedy]

12. He's sweating and his sponsors are nervous.

More than good enough for me.

[bhikkhu]

8. So you would prefer war?

I think the more important thing is gaining historic concessions on and eventually eliminating one of the biggest stockpiles of chemical weapons left in the world is more important. If it can be done through diplomacy rather than war, that's a huge plus, and realistically the ideal outcome.

I don't care who gets credit or who is off the hook or who looks like a hero; its the result that matters. That's the adult perspective.

[malaise]

9. Ding ding we have a winner

but more than a few DUers are more than unhappy.

[cali]

11. Fail, malaise. or bzzzt, bzzzt.

I've said repeatedly that this is a good thing.

[cali]

10. I've said repeatedly that I think this is a good thing

I hope it works too and I'm relieved that the President can move away from a politically damaging vote on the Hill. I'm glad that there's some workable breathing space.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3635971

I happen to care about analysis.

[pampango]

13. If Assad did not want to have chemical weapons, he would not have them. He is giving up something

he would rather keep. That meets the definition of "punishment" to me. Perhaps a bigger "punishment" in the long run than destroying a few runways and airplane hangers that can be quickly repaired anyway.

His access to chemical weapons is a big psychological and military advantage for him. Even if the military balance were to turn against him in the future, the opposition knows that he has these weapons as a last resort. That has to make some of them wonder how he can ever be defeated.

Also, one big argument against a victory for the rebels is that of who gains control of the chemical weapons once Assad is gone. Given some of the radical elements among the rebels that is a legitimate concern. Removing these weapons from the equation would make a rebel victory a little less "scary", although there plenty of anti-aircraft missiles and other military hardware that they might get there hands on.

[11 Bravo]

15. If Obama resuscitated a drowning child, you would attack him for ...

sabotaging the organ donor program.

[cali]

16. I don't attack him. I don't bash him.

I don't accuse of him of the crap like "he's a tool of the MIC" or the banksters or whatever. I don't think he's a war monger. I never question his motives. I think he's a good man and a very smart guy. I don't agree with quite a bit in his foreign policy. It's that simple.

your accusations are simply absurd.