Hey, DU geniuses who think Putin schooled Obama

[geek tragedy]

You were wrong yet again.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9890I020130910?irpc=932

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Barack Obama discussed the idea of placing Syria's chemical weapons arsenal under international control on the sidelines of a G20 summit last week, Putin's spokesman said on Tuesday.

"The issue was discussed," spokesman Dmitry Peskov said by telephone. He would not say who raised the issue or give other details.

So, Kerry was not speaking off the cuff, and this was not a surprise to Obama, nor was it dumb luck.

[BeyondGeography]

1. But that doesn't mean they're not still geniuses

Ya know.

[geek tragedy]

2. Obama's diehard critics have never been wrong.

It's just that the world is one giant conspiracy to make them look foolish.

[David__77]

3. I'm sure that we were all united in supporting Obama.

Vigorous debate is a good thing.

[geek tragedy]

15. We opposed the air strikes.

But, too many fall into the reverse halo effect.

[David__77]

19. Personally, I think it's far too soon for any of that.

It's good to keep cool-headed about all of this. It's a fluid situation. It does, however, seem unlikely that a resolution will be acceptable to all parties at the UN.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

83. "It's good to keep cool-headed about all of this."

Thanx.

[BeyondGeography]

10. They might not realize he has spent a lot of time around them

And has been smiling politely at their insights for the better part of three decades.

[Logical]

14. Neither have the cheerleaders! N-t

[msanthrope]

4. Running around with your hair on fire isn't an indicator of genius.....

[leftstreet]

5. No one gives a shit

Everyone's just glad the missiles aren't flying

[phleshdef]

24. You don't give a shit. Plenty of other people do.

I'd suggest you exercise more caution when attempting to speak for everyone.

[leftstreet]

29. Obama's reputation is more important than missiles flying?

[phleshdef]

30. Who said that?

FIELDS of strawmen...

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. agreed!

[uponit7771]

35. This is false, plenty people want Obama embarrasedd

[leftstreet]

39. Obama embarrassed himself

The majority of Americans are antiwar - REGARDLESS of which politician is talking about it

[uponit7771]

41. OK as long as bombs don't drop he can be both stupid and evil Wall Street genius

[Fantastic Anarchist]

43. Not to mention this makes Obama and Kerry look like bullies ...

... and the reactionary, Putin, look like a peacemaker.

I'm glad that Obama decided to scratch the itchy finger without firing any weapons, but it hardly makes him look like he came out on top of this.

I'm glad that we're not bombing the hell out of Syrians ... and it just took a reactionary like Putin to mitigate this crisis.

[VanillaRhapsody]

102. Of course YOU Would....sore loser!

How's that meal of crow and sour grapes going down?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

103. Please, get over yourself.

[Logical]

49. Not true, he does it himself! n-t

[uponit7771]

53. lol...OK, just as long as no bombs don't drop

[Logical]

54. I am happy he backed off, glad he gets it now! n-t

[CakeGrrl]

68. My money's on him "getting it" far ahead of the crowd here

I love how the blogosphere has NO inside intel on the big picture, but presumes to try to school the decision-makers.

[Tarheel_Dem]

104. It is kinda funny, huh? They can't stand that this might actually work. They were prepared to be..

outraged for the gazillionth time.

[Logical]

105. Nope, he assumed the people would be OK with it. We were not. Buy he learned a lesson. n-t

[blm]

6. I wonder why it is so important to media and some here to always jump on

the worst narrative they can create when it comes to Kerry and Obama.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. Because some are not even Americans...they are posing as them here..

in the idiotic belief that they can influence the American politic that way...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

89. Leave SidDithers alone! He has every right to post here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. Who the hell is SidDithers?

post but don't pose...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

93. You've gotten to the crux of the matter: just who is SidDithers?

[VanillaRhapsody]

94. and why should we care?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

97. We? Who consented to let you speak for them?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

50. If it were Rice and Bush, they'd be applauded and given the Nobel Peace Prize!!

Obama is black. John Kerry is a Democrat who the mainstream corporate media NEVER liked. Both are Democrats.

Why we here at DU cannot see and understand that is beyond me.

[cthulu2016]

7. You read news primarily for what it contains about the dumbness of your DU enemies?

Cool.

[HangOnKids]

8. Holy Shit 18 Hidden Posts Might Be An Indication

[David__77]

91. Oh my...

That IS something. But a lot of us do speak in a provocative fashion I suppose.

[geek tragedy]

11. No, I don't, but where they make particularly

grandiose fools of themselves, it bears noting.

[HangOnKids]

25. You might want to lay off the grandiose fool thing

18 hidden posts, REALLY?

[geek tragedy]

26. I'm proud of most of those.

Including the one where one jury voted to hide "Fuck Ron Paul"

[HangOnKids]

34. Of Course You Are

Because everyone on DU has 18 hidden posts!

[VanillaRhapsody]

37. You were expected to cowtow to that...hahahahah.

follow Pres. Obamas lead...don't back down!

[pintobean]

45. You may have missed this.

Response to morningfog (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 06:17 PM

Skinner (58,110 posts)
1. Yes, we have considered a secondary sanction.

I agree that some people have shown that they are not dissuaded by the public shaming of having a visible transparency page. Some of them have even said as much right here on DU.

I also agree that reasonable posters make an effort to avoid getting their posts hidden. It really isn't that difficult.

I think DU as a whole would be better off if the people who kept getting their posts hidden would make an effort and stop posting things that get hidden. If they don't care, then I think it is in our interest to make them care. We have an idea that would do that -- and I think we are very likely to implement it.

To any DUers who keep getting posts hidden: Now is a good time to start figuring out how to not get your posts hidden. Because change is coming...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12593326#post1

[geek tragedy]

47. Yes I did.

But I will continue to say "fuck Ron Paul" regardless of what juries say.

[Whisp]

65. Fuck Ron Paul n/t

[Aerows]

72. Can't be said often enough. n/t

[stonecutter357]

82. Fuck Ron Paul

But but but NSA and ron and conspiracy's and stuff

[Dr Hobbitstein]

81. I've looked at your hidden posts...

And I support you on them. Here on polarized underground, everyone seems to clutch their pearls and see everything as a vicious personal attack...

[Whisp]

84. It can come down to this:

a poster can just Accuse you with:
Don't Call Me a Liar!!!

when there was Nothing in your post that came to calling anyone a liar - unless having oposing points of view is regarded as that.

the alert is sent, and you get locked out.

it all depends on how many !!!!!! of these you use, I guess and whether there are more Crips than the Bloods online for jury duty.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

88. Truth!

I've served on about 15 juries since I've been here. In that time, I think I voted ONCE to hide a post.

Most of what I've come across is people getting all worked up by opposing points of views, or in the case of the "Fuck Ron Paul" post, a large Libertarian base that seems to have infiltrated this site. I served on that jury as well. I was astounded that anyone voted to hide it.

[Whisp]

95. The changes Skinner mentioned...

about hidden posts and number of, to shame us into being wery wery careful what we say.

I think I read somewhere that one possibility of the 'punishments' is that if you exceed X number of hides, then you can no longer be a host of a/any group/s.

I hope that isn't implemented, but I won't cry about it either. It might lead to massive confusion in group forums with a possible revolving door, unless, of course we just all shut up when someone lauds Fuck Ron Paul or unjustly vilifies the President.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

98. I'll be honest...

I didn't read much of the info regarding changes from DU2 to DU3. I've been around since DU1, but didn't post much, and seeing as I made the account in college, I lost the email I signed up with, and can't even remember what name I used to post under back then. I went without a computer and net access for a couple years after that, and when I came back and registered, it was already DU2, about to turn into DU3. I do miss the Unrec feature, as a small group of (insert derogatory remark here) seems to get their anti-Obama agenda all over the greatest page, while the fact filled posts get buried. But if you call those (idrh) out for their blatant bullshitery, your post gets hidden...

I just looked at my transparency page. I know I had a couple posts hidden around the time of the Sandy Hook shooting where my posts were deemed by some ultra-sensitives to be NRA propaganda (which is funny, as I don't own guns, and even mentioned that in my posts), even after further clarifying my remarks, my posts were hidden. But now, it shows no hidden posts. Does it only track the past 90 days?

[Whisp]

100. I believe so, after 90 days it disappears. n/t

[geek tragedy]

99. We'll just have to not engage with contemptible idiots anymore.

Those of us who lose our ability to self-edit in such interactions, anyways.

[shenmue]

9. Pres. Obama and Putin cooperated on a pretty good idea?

What are they, leaders or something?

[Zorra]

12. It was a wise and logical strategy employed by clever Democratic Party leaders.

[JoePhilly]

13. It didn't happen on TV, and the Guardian didn't report on it ...

so clearly it didn't happen.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to not think that the Obama administration and Putin's government were not in regular talks about Syria for a long, long time now. Clearly, Obama and Putin don't get along, but its also very likely that neither really wants the armed conflict in Syria to spread, or to include Chemical Weapons.

But Russia isn't going to vote YES on a military strike on Syria, at the UN. Never going to happen.

So our diplomats, and their diplomats looked for, and found, a path forward that would not include military strikes. We had to keep up the pressure of strikes (and not bluff) and Russia had to go tell Assad, "they aren't bluffing".

But according to the folks on DU who so incorrectly predicted a 2nd Iraq war for about 3 weeks now ... what happened is that Putin came up with this humanitarian offer simply because he's a swell guy.

See ... apparently, it went down like this .... President Obama was sitting in the oval office playing with some toy missiles, when Putin called and said, "Hey bro, listen up ... I'll get Assad to give up the Chem weapons cause your in a real jam, so don't sweat it, I got your back, my main man!!"

Or some approximation of that ... from what I'm reading from the Combustible Hair Club today.

[Pisces]

16. Oh boy, next comes more conspiracy theories from the DU Neo's about Putin helping Obama with p.r.

[woo me with science]

17. Give it up.

The propaganda has no credibility anymore.

[geek tragedy]

21. Man, that's a pathetic attempt at justifying the ODS. nt

[scheming daemons]

23. What REALLY has no credibility anymore is the hair-on-fire anti-Obama screeds on DU the past 5 years

[woo me with science]

27. Keep repeating that.

We know you will. That's how it works, doesn't it.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

96. We all know that refuting the constant lies spewed against Obama doesn't convince the kooks

...but I applaud those who do so anyway.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[rhett o rick]

51. The Obama Group does nothing here but defend Obama. Never see them in threads

about the TPP, fracking, nuclear power, depleted uranium, etc. Here is a thread that is top of the Greatest Page http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023631191. Dont you have a comment? How about the other threads on the Greatest page other than those praising Obama?

Those that are restricted to praising Pres Obama and ad hominem attacks and strawmen arguments against those that dont blindly follow, are the ones with no credibility.

[Maedhros]

61. They mis-read criticism of bad policy as personal attacks on the President.

They then direct vitriol at the persons criticizing the policy, because their primary understanding of politics is of loyalty to personalities. It's counter-productive and frustrating, but not likely to change.

[frylock]

86. because they all believe that they're close, personal friends of obama..

so any criticism is taken personally.

[frylock]

85. the anti-war crowd should've just shut the fuck up and let this shake out

[phleshdef]

28. LOL, I love how defiant some of you can be in the face of utter embarassment.

[scheming daemons]

32. in the face of facts disproving their beliefs, they become even more stringent

The inability to accept that one's views have been wrong is an inate human characteristic.

[woo me with science]

40. "They, they, they...."

Such constant effort and desperation to make brazen propaganda appear to be consensus. The same old, transparent swarm, by the same little, familiar group.

How illustrative of the corruption of our government that brazen, lying propaganda and rewriting of history appear to be the status quo now in political messaging in the United States of America.

[Aerows]

67. I'm a harsh critic

but I'm with the crowd when we avert war and disaster. It doesn't matter who you might have a grudge against - a win for peace is a win for peace.

[woo me with science]

76. I agree wholeheartedly.

My opposition is to blatant rewriting of history for political purposes, a tactic which is becoming disturbingly common in political messaging.

We are far from ensured peace at this point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3637406

[Aerows]

78. Doing the right thing

is still the right thing, my friend.

[woo me with science]

79. I hope we stay out of war.

My skepticism is deep at the moment, for the reasons in the link of my last post.

I don't think they are finished yet.

[Aerows]

80. Reinforce good behavior

help were you can, and step away from the edge. That's the best that any of us can do, and it's also the best of us.

[woo me with science]

92. Aerows, I have great respect for your posts.

But reinforcing good behavior does not require accepting lies as truth.

We are being fed a deliberate campaign to rewrite history.

I won't be okay with that, ever.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. Your propaganda?

[woo me with science]

42. Aw...

it's you.

It's just like a small town, isn't it.

[scheming daemons]

18. All the "cool" kids KNOW that Obama is a failure....

...don't you get it?


They spent weeks here screaming about Obama cutting Social Security....

They spent months here screaming that he was anti-LGBT and would never support Marriage Equality...

They spent days here screaming that he was a warmongerer who was hell bent on attacking Syria no matter what....



It simply does NOT MATTER to them that they are always, every single time, wrong about Obama. To be "cool" on the left is to be a FireBagger.... you cannot show any support for Obama whatsoever or you lose your street creds.


"Obama = Bush" is their credo... and dammit, they aren't going to let facts get in the way of that.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. +1000

[Itchinjim]

46. +1G

[Pretzel_Warrior]

57. Sweet post

"chained CPI! Chained CPI!"

[Scurrilous]

20. Here's to ODS!

[Waiting For Everyman]

36. It's easy to tell who won that round, and who lost.

Who gave up something? Putin did the conceding, so he lost; Obama won. That isn't hard to figure out. The rest is PR and spin.

[Maedhros]

64. Not to take away from Obama's achievement here,

but Putin didn't walk away from this with nothing. He had been taking hits in the press for his obstinacy; this gives him some diplomatic capital as a guy who can facilitate compromise.

[Waiting For Everyman]

73. True,

if he doesn't screw that up by waffling on it now. But he gave up Assad's chemical weapons, which are tangible military assets versus image.

[totodeinhere]

71. No it's too early to draw any conclusions about this. We need to wait for it

to play out. The Syrians haven't given up their chemical weapons yet. All they have done is "agree" to a proposal which may never happen. The Russians are already saying that the French UN proposal which would implement their surrender of chemical weapons is "unacceptable." And remember that the Syrians have "agreed" to negotiate with the rebels before only to back out. If this turns out to be a stalling tactic on the part of the Syrians as Hillary Clinton has suggested then this is certainly no victory for Obama.

[Waiting For Everyman]

77. Yes, in this round of events, that's what is meant.

In this round, Putin made the concessions. As to the next round, that remains to be seen as you said, and on the whole game (to use a euphemism), that will probably take years and may never be conclusive.

I don't see Obama, or the French, agreeing to a stall.

[CakeGrrl]

44. Didn't you hear?

This dumb-luck, corrupt, war-mongering, incompetent POTUS lies "like breathing" and has blundered his way though an absolutely do-nothing presidency, needing help from everyone from Bill Clinton to Putin just to stand at the podium upright.

I heard it here! Must be true!

[Logical]

48. He was not prepared for the reaction, back tracked and did what was right! nt

[CakeGrrl]

74. Wrong. These discussions started before the G20

POTUS sees the available options and possible outcomes. Engages Congress to allow time for some scenarios to play out. NEVER made a decision either way on whether to use force. Presented evidence to make the case for illegal chemical weapons use.

No backtracking. Following the path that opened up when Russia complied.

[Logical]

106. Nope, but keep your fantasy alive! n-t

[jessie04]

75. YOU mean....

dumb-luck, corrupt, war-mongering, NEO-CON, PNAC, CHICKENHAWK incompetent POTUS .

Of course they will never admit to it.

[rhett o rick]

52. Your continued use of strawmen and ad hominem attacks has killed your creditability. nm

[BrainDrain]

55. Obama DID get schooled

A) IF it had been discussed and Obama thought it was such a great idea, why did he wait to publicly accept it? Why didn't he jump on it from the start since he KNEW he was gonna get his ass kicked by congress over a military action?

B) WHY give the initiative to the Russians? At least make it a joint announcement, so it would LOOK like he knew what he was doing?

C) Why have the SOS make it sound like some sort of afterthought?

None of what you claim makes ANY sense in a world where Obama supposedly knows what he is doing. All of it makes him look like an idiot. Which leads to the final question of...

D) Why in the hell would he let himself look like an idiot?

Please feel free to mumble away.......

[geek tragedy]

101. Simple answer: it was a lot more palatable for various parties

to have Russia/Syria offer it than for the perception to be that Washington was dictating it.

[lynne]

56. I don't care how it came about -

- and am just relieved that calmer heads prevailed. Doesn't matter which head was the calm one.

However, I do find it unfortunate that a diplomatic solution was not the first solution considered in lieu of the last.

[Aerows]

63. Well, we can complain about water not being dry

or we can celebrate that it is wet. I'm in the second category, and thrilled that disaster has been averted.

[Maedhros]

69. I'm with you.

It looks like we may have averted a messy intervention. Bravo. If Obama learned something from the process, fantastic.

[Aerows]

70. I'm thrilled we are taking a step back

from the war rhetoric, and choosing a different path.

[andym]

58. It doesn't mean that Kerry was not speaking off the cuff

I think he was, but the idea was on his mind because of past discussions. Probably the initial discussions were shot down (by Syria?), which is why Kerry thought getting the Syrians to surrender their weapons was "impossible" and why the State department was initially dismissive. But good diplomats are open-minded and the proposed solution is very reasonable.

This is how diplomacy works-- it's not always pretty, but where the parties have every reason to find a solution, a solution may very well be found.

As for the reactions on DU, dividing the world ideologically into good and evil tends to lead to oversimplification.

[revmclaren]

60. Breaking News From Politico:

Obama tells lawmakers he wants to delay vote on action in Syria!

Boy oh boy is Obama bad at being a Warmonger! Maybe, just maybe it's because HE'S NOT ONE!

[Aerows]

62. This was a fantastic outcome, from all perspectives

I applaud Obama on this one!

[SidDithers]

66. DU rec...

Sid

[veganlush]

87. HAHAHAHA

Thanks for posting! I'm so tired of the anti-Obama's here now.

[Scurrilous]

107. Boink.

[Skittles]

108. so they risked rejection by the Brits

as part of a ruse?

[Cha]

109. Oh yeah, they discussed it..

h/t freshwest http://www.democraticunderground.com/110215196#post6

Nor did it fall out of the sky.

[Skittles]

110. uh huh

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/10/putin-chemical-weapons-united-nations-obama/2794529/