Shout Out for the Vocal and principled Anti-WAR Left.

[bvar22]

It can be debated how influential the Anti-WAR Left was in disarming the latest Rush to WAR with the rapid, unified, and LOUD Chorus of OPPOSITION.
But it can NOT be denied that the Anti-WAR Left, in conjunction with the Anti-WAR movement in Britain DID have at least some effect.

I want to congratulate those who STOOD UP for these principles:

*We are governed by an elected President
who must answer to The People by our informed consent,
and NOT by an all powerful Unitary Executive or a King.


*We will no longer accept at your word that you have "secret proof" that justifies an elective WAR. Our Government MUST show us the PROOF.
"Because we said so" is no longer sufficient,
especially when LIARS like Gen Clapper are protected,
and the same system and people who Stove Piped the "intelligence" for the Iraq WAR are still manning the levers of power.

*Shameless Binary choices used to manipulate Public Opinion like
"You either support "The Rebels" or you support Dead Babies"
will be exposed for what they are. After the thousands and THOUSANDS of Dead Babies WE are responsible for in that region, showing a bunch of gruesome photos to gin up support for another WAR is beneath contempt and drenched with Hypocrisy.

*There are no Good Guys by Default in Middle Eastern Civil Wars.
Al Qaeda is STILL Al Qaeda.

*Before "changing regimes", a viable plan for filling the vacuum must be presented to the American People BEFORE receiving approval for WAR.
Bonus Mileage awarded if it is paid for (PAYGO) by tax increases on The RICH.

*YES. Dropping BOMBS on a foreign people IS an [font size=3]Act of WAR[/font],
no matter how "limited"
even if there are "no boots on the ground".

*[font size=3]Guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt[/font] is the criteria before considering "punitive" military action . Probably did it and "Common Sense" is not sufficient cause for WAR.


I am PROUD to STAND with the "Fringe Left Majority",
and applaud the rapid and vocal response, especially the British who really threw a Cold Pail of Water of those beating the War Drums.
Without this visible and vocal presence, who knows whether we would be AT WAR today.

Kudos to the Anti-WAR Left at DU for their clear, consistent STAND for SANITY over the last few weeks despite the ever changing political winds and rapidly changing World situation. The LEFT at DU never wavered,
and has championed the same position of [font size=3]International Diplomatic Resolution and International Law Enforcement[/font] as we did two weeks ago.


The situation is fluid, but the goal remain the same.

[font size=3]There will still be a vote in Congress.
We must keep up the pressure on our Congress & Senate to Vote NO against ANY authorization to Use Military Force in SYRIA.[/font]

Remember the lesson from the Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq.
If The President wants to BOMB the Syrians, he must make his case to the American People, and return to Congress for a specific authorization.
No more "Blank Checks" for WAR.




Keep the Faith.
NOW, maybe we can stop the TPP.



[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]




You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. Pres. Obama thanks you....you made him look resolute...

that was part of the ploy....

[Raksha]

17. Pull the other one; it's got bells on it.

Wish I could take credit for that one, but I ripped it off from a sparring partner on another forum.

[DirkGently]

64. The people appreciate his resolute backing down.

He did the right thing by getting the message:

NO MORE POINTLESS U.S. MILITARY INTERVENTION IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

For that, the country salutes him.

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. He didn't back down....are you nutty?

He stood up to the bully...and the bully backed down. You really need to see someone about "that"

[DirkGently]

71. Yes. He wisely abandoned his first & second plans.

After the public slap down of a unilateral strike, and the further Congressional slap down, the President correctly and ethically reconsidered his options, assuming he continues with the proposed compromise.

It was the right thing to do, listening to the people of the United States, his employers, superiors, and boss.

It really IS a victory. Smart leaders listen to their people. David Cameron did it. Obama appears to be doing it.

Why you need to try so frantically to convince everyone the President rigidly followed his one and only plan of action, without regard to political reality, is a mystery.

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. How do you know how many plans he had...

in game theory there are plans for every move the opponent makes...that could be way more than the two you think...it makes it multifaceted. Thats how it is done now. You don't EVER have just one plan. That is a recipe for disaster.

He was not "publically" slapped down....believe you me...he would have gone to the mattresses for this if necessary. That is why it work. I will not stand by and watch what he just did minimized by the rabble rouser. This president has balls of steel. Some around here fail to recognize that. I am not one of them. I happen to recognize a "leader" instead of a manager....

What you guys want is just a manager...who does what YOU say. Thankfully, that is not what we have.

Wonder where we would be right now if Obama took YOUR advice? We most certainly would not have Assad agreeing to sign the Chemical Weapons Treaty...

[DirkGently]

88. It is a political failure to request a war you do not get.

Sorry, but no amount of your babbling about game theory will change that.

Obama did not obtain public support for a strike. That's a failure. A happy one, but a failure.

Obama did not obtain Congressional support for a strike. That's another failure. Again, a good thing.

Of course he knew it might not go his way. But knowing it might not go his way doesn't mean it magically went his way.

And it's not a zero-sum game. If at the end, he pulls out a positive result like a non-violent compromise, it's a success. I've seen no one question that. Leaders adapt. They recognize when one door is closed, and look for another way out.

Like a compromise brokered by Russia.

But there is no way you're going to talk anyone on the planet into your idea that having the public and Congress both reject a proposal for war in Syria went according to plan. That was not the plan. The plan was not for America to tell Obama he could not have a war in Syria. That is not a plan that a politician makes.

What you need to do is reconcile yourself with the notion that it's okay for Obama to not always be in control. He is not a failed leader because he could not achieve war in Syria. He is a smart leader because he recognized that and (it appears so far) is willing to go another way.

Savor that. It reflects well on him. But the war thing was a fail. Sorry?

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. How do you even think like that?

Still trying to underhandedly call him a warmonger? Pathetic!

NO YOU lose!

[caseymoz]

150. Yes, we know Obama is a mathematician

. . . specializing in Game Theory.

Last I checked, Obama was trained as a lawyer.

You just crossed over from awe into denial. Sometimes, just sometimes, what looks like a defeat on the surface is just a defeat, and if you look at Obama's approval ratings before and after this, you would have agree.

[VanillaRhapsody]

165. and smarter than you!

Defeat? Perhaps you should read what you just said introspectively....I think its something that suits your situation even more...

[caseymoz]

175. Than me? I'm not running against him . . .

. . . and that's the only way that childish comeback would mean anything.

The rest of your statement is incoherent. What's reading introspectively? Should I read introspectively what I just said? Or should I read what I just introspectively said? And what part of what I said are you referring? And by what I "just said" you must be referring to what I wrote, fourteen hours ago. And what about my situation are you saying is relevant to whatever your saying.

Please try restating this.

[VanillaRhapsody]

176. and YOU are calling me "incoherent'?

word salad....

[beerandjesus]

159. Wait.....

So he had multiple alternative plans, but the way things worked out was in accordance with his plan all along?

[VanillaRhapsody]

166. Isn't that HOW Chess is played?

is being good a chess random?

[CrispyQ]

77. Well said. "Smart leaders listen to their people."

Why isn't this enough for them? The hero worship is laughable. Last week they were cheering the Prez on, as he advocated for military action. This week, it was all part of the plan.

[DirkGently]

92. I feel like he listened to us. I'd rather he had a

David Cameron moment.

"It is very clear tonight that, while the House has not passed a motion, it is clear to me that the British parliament, reflecting the views of the British people, does not want to see British military action. I get that and the government will act accordingly."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/30/cameron-mps-syria

That's a leader in a democratic style of government, right there. Gritted teeth and all.

THAT is strength.

[VanillaRhapsody]

108. "feeling like it" and it being a fact are two different things...we know your "gut" isn't reliable..

Obama WAS going to go...but his demands were met...so
he is going to give diplomacy another try. But if you think he will hesitate if Assad waivers...you got another think coming.



I had a strange suspicion there were alot of Brits here...everything makes perfect sense when you realize that.

[DirkGently]

121. Your argument is ... Obama didn't listen to the people?

And those you disagree with are ... British?

That is some slap happy reasoning there.

Best tack for Obama to take is that he got the message: No war in Syria.

[VanillaRhapsody]

123. No...thats not what i said is it?

This is why you got Obama all wrong too...


And no...Obama was willing to face his opposition....that took nerves of steel.
His best tack is apparently the one he chose...not the one the one you are trying to choose for him.

But you didn't answer the question....are you?

[DirkGently]

124. Yes, that's what you said. I said, "I feel like

(Obama) listened to us."

You said something about my gut being wrong and feelings being wrong.

If you weren't arguing against what I said -- that Obama listened to us, what the hell were you saying?



And you are seriously accusing me of British-ness?

I'm going to leave you hanging there, VR, because I think that is hilarious, both as a suspicion and as an argument.

Go to town with that, by all means.

[VanillaRhapsody]

125. He Didnt listen to you...that is exactly what I am saying...

Of course you will.....figures...not surprised..

weak sauce...

[go west young man]

136. Didn't realize being British was such a bad thing....

think I'll go shoot myself in the face now that I know.

[DirkGently]

157. Just to be clear, I was not insulted at the accusation.

Amused, yes, but in no way insulted. I've named myself after a Douglas Adams character, after all.

(considers affecting 'cheers' as a signoff; decides too cute by half)

[go west young man]

174. Don't worry Ford Prefect!

Your secrets safe with me. I didn't take it you were insulted. The poster insinuates (I suppose) that the British anti war left really don't have a place at DU. I found that humorous. I'm from London and have been here posting since 2004 and have made lots of good friends!

[DirkGently]

178. God Save the Queen. ;)

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. A manager might...a Leader...LEADS....

I love how the fact that he was IGNORING all your wailing, gnashing of teeth and garment rending....and was going to do what he felt was right anyways....then Assad backed down...and somehow he was listening to YOU?

[RC]

139. A good leader looks behind him to make sure his followers are still there.

Or to but it another way - Every leader needs to look back once in a while to make sure he has followers.

That is what Obama did this time. So yeah, he listened to us. Deal with it.

[beerandjesus]

156. And frankly, this is something I really appreciate about Obama.

I appreciate the fact that he DOESN'T rigidly follow a single plan of action.

I'm with you in not understanding why it's so important to some on here to believe that Obama's incapable of reconsidering his options given new data.

[DirkGently]

158. I think democracy worked, just a bit. And that's good.

I question how "democratic" people are who must insist that Obama is pounding his will into the country, citizens and representatives be damned, because he knows all and sees all and always gets what he wants.

THAT kind of leader can go f*ck himself.

I want the guy who told us to hold his feet to the fire, and who will respond accordingly.

[RetroLounge]

79. Loosen the kneepads

the blood isn't getting to the brain.

RL

[Scootaloo]

144. While you make him look like a bipolar nutjob

You, two days ago: "I WANT WAR BECAUSE I SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT!"
You, today: "YAY PEACE BECAUSE I SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT!"



Fuck me, how hard is it to have principles?

[quinnox]

2. K&R

I said it at the time, and I'll say it again. Great Britain saved our asses. In conjunction with the American public saying a loud "NO!" to this Syria intervention nonsense. Thanks to our friends across the pond! And thanks to the anti-war left. We won! (Hopefully, but I am optimistic at this point)

[Maedhros]

48. One does get the sense that if the UK had marched lock-step with the Administration

the bombs would already have dropped. The response from our closest ally was bracing enough to slow down the war train, allowing other factors to slow it further.

[quinnox]

95. yup, that is what I think too. We owe a thank you note to Great Britain

[DirkGently]

113. We should model Cameron's "We heard the people and

will act accordingly" approach.

[bvar22]

112. No, no. You got it wrong.

The British didn't do anything.

It was ALL a part of Obama's Master Plan.

[Rockyj]

115. I agree!~

And thanks to all the old hippie dippy's to our fine young Anonymous, Occupy, Idle No More, etc. movements who actually give a SHIT about their future & most of all their kids!

[Catherina]

3. Spot on. Rec'd. This thing is far from over n/t

[nashville_brook]

4. the First Lady agrees.

[Hydra]

5. "What if someone threw a war..."

...and nobody showed up?

That's more or less what happened. I applaud the lack of enthusiasm for Iraq 2.0 by all parties who opposed it.

[Raksha]

12. I guess you're not old enough to remember, but I am.

The exact words were: "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

Good slogan. Too bad it took so long for everyone to figure it out.

[Hydra]

14. Nope, I cribbed it from what was likely a satire of that

"What if someone threw a war, and EVERYBODY came?"

[Raksha]

19. Same general idea. I'm just kind of a stickler when it comes to quotations.

I'm one of those old-fashioned types who still memorizes poetry. I don't always get it word-perfect, but close enough!

[Hydra]

21. I usually look it up and do it correctly

But I can't if I haven't seen it before

Thank you for introducing me to the proper one.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. Um,

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10023615982

[RebelOne]

118. No, no more wars.

I am 74 years old. I was a child when WWII started, but I remember my parents telling me that Pearl Harbor was attacked. I have lived through the Korean war, the Viet Nam war and the Afghan and Iraq wars. So I am sick, sick, sick of wars. I do not support Obama's stance on an attack of Syria.

[markpkessinger]

42. Indeed . . .

. . . and that gives me great hope!

[markpkessinger]

102. But on further reflection . . .

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:05 PM - Edit history (1)

. . . my hope is tempered by the knowledge that had it been a Republican president calling for military strikes under the very same set of circumstances, a large swath of the electorate would have been all for it. We mustn't be naive and delude ourselves into thinking the opposition to THIS war necessarily represents any major paradigm shift in the broader culture.

[Hydra]

104. Only 10-15% more

The Fundies. I did the calculation when someone asked who the likely supporters of this were. All the usual suspects were there except the RW "Christians."

Mind you, that might have been enough of a fig leaf for the President to order an strike leading to an invasion...disturbing thought there.

[Rex]

6. We are on the same side as Jesus, Gandhi and MLK.

Good group of people there. The other side cannot make such claims.

[RC]

140. +10

[Skittles]

7. aw, didn't you hear?

it had nothing to do with the disdain of the Brits, Congress and the American people......it was all a chess play!!!

[rug]

75. It's statecraft by logarithm.

[reformist2]

8. +1000. We need to keep up the pressure!

[ProSense]

9. We rock!

The 9/11 attack was terrorism, and in response, only one person voted against the original AUMF that launched the war in Afghanistan.

Barbara Lee

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll342.xml

Ron Paul voted yes. Dennis Kucinich voted yes.

Opposition to the War in Afghanistan (2001–present)

Opposition to the decade-long Afghanistan war stems from numerous factors – these include the view that the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan was illegal under international law and constituted an unjustified aggression, the view that the continued military presence constitutes a foreign military occupation, the view that the war does little to prevent terrorism but increases its likelihood, and views on the involvement of geo-political and corporate interests. Also giving rise to opposition to the war are civilian casualties, the cost to taxpayers, the length of the war to date, and the estimates by many that it could last for many more decades.

- more -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

[RetroLounge]

80. Does the lack of WARGASM give you a sad?

You poor thing.



RL

[U4ikLefty]

114. They are all sad today. n/t

[Raksha]

10. A happy K & R from a proud member of the PEACE-loving "fringe left majority." n/t

[xchrom]

11. Du rec. Nt

[truedelphi]

13. This past week, the entire silent moral majority of the American public stood with

Us Old Fringe Leftie types.

72% of all Americans did not want a new war, another "military adventure" or any other militant response to another nation who has used chem weaponry. Especially not willing to go down the MIC road, until diplomacy has been tried.

[markpkessinger]

24. +1 n/t

[warrprayer]

15. I prefer left Twix

[leftstreet]

16. DURec

[snagglepuss]

18. k and r

[Generic Other]

20. I am never going to defend America's wars of empire

Never.

[Logical]

22. I LOVE IT that we caused this backtrack. Being vocal helps!! n-t

[TBF]

23. My rep is voting no -

just updated his facebook page & it was already out there in role-call that he wouldn't support it.

[SomethingFishy]

26. Hey, Obama knew that all you fringe left wacko's would go crazy

at the thought of dropping some bombs on Syria. It was all part of his multi-dimentional chess game. He had all this planned from the beginning.....

[DirkGently]

67. Proud to have helped him smash

the conceit of the Unitary Executive.

From now on (for however long it lasts) U.S. Presidents will think twice before committing themselves to threats of unilateral wars.

Doesn't go over so well.

[Coyotl]

27. Kudos to those who said an attack even with Congressional approval is a war crime.

That's not a Left-Right issue, it is a legal issue.

[woo me with science]

29. And a moral one. nt

[vlakitti]

32. You are right; it would be a war crime.

And Noam Chomsky was one of the first to make the case.

[Coyotl]

107. Welcome to DU

[blue14u]

132. Hi... Wlcome to DU!

[avaistheone1]

109. That it is.

[leveymg]

28. They didn't have the votes in the House,and perhaps not in the Senate. It's as simple as that,

except that the reason the votes weren't there is that Congress heard loud and clear from the American people that we won't put up with another Optional War. Not in our name. Not in our time.

[Cryptoad]

34. Funny

the deal had already been set in motion with the Russians before The Request for a Congressional vote...... a very slick mover by Mr Obama.......now if we can only get the Congressional Vote on Public Record!

[leveymg]

39. Do you want to explain that one?

The US and Russians have been exchanged barbed stares and accusations over Syria going back to March 2011. Are you saying we just pretended to have fueled a civil war that killed 100,000, or that all along we did it in conjunction with Russia?

I'll take Door #2.

[Cryptoad]

57. What part of it do you not understand? nt

[leveymg]

61. I'd rather their little dance had been wrapped up before 100,000 people died.

I assume this is what you're referring to?

Putin, Obama discussed Syria arms control idea last week: Kremlin

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:22 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Source: Reuters

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Barack Obama discussed the idea of placing Syria's chemical weapons arsenal under international control on the sidelines of a G20 summit last week, Putin's spokesman said on Tuesday.

"The issue was discussed," spokesman Dmitry Peskov said by telephone. He would not say who raised the issue or give other details.

Read more: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9890I020130910?irpc=932

If Obama and Putin were such geniuses, we could have worked with Russia to avoid the civil war that led to this crisis.

[Cryptoad]

76. Seems that it takes the Threat of Retribution

to bring them to the table!

[leveymg]

142. You assume that the dance was a solo, and all it took was threats by another dancer.

Last edited Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:58 AM - Edit history (1)

I think that's willfully blind.

[Cryptoad]

154. I assumed nothing ,,,,,,

[morningfog]

134. He withdrew the request because he was about to lose big.

[Whisp]

30. It was Grayson and Palin that saved the planet.

I wonder if they will amalgamate their awesome powers again, and will it be for good, or will it be for evol?

Stay tuned, there is another scandal coming soon!

[Cryptoad]

31. Im sure an apology

by the Obama Haters who be greatly appreciated by Mr. Obama!

[bvar22]

38. Who is an "Obama Hater"?

or are you just making stuff up again!
Do you have any documentation?
Can you make a cogent case for your claims?

[Cryptoad]

53. Let me see if I can be a wee bit clear for you

an "Obama Hater" is a person who Hates Obama.
Obama in our President
Websters online can help you with "Hate"

Its an opinion without any claims.....

Enjoy!

[bvar22]

86. Oh, so your purpose here is to provide even more evidence...

...that PT Barnum grossly underestimated the rate at which suckers are born in America.

Thanks,
but we already knew.

sincerely,
---bvar22
a mainstream center FDR/LBJ Working Class Democratic Party activist for over 45 years.

[Cryptoad]

96. I heard that

"real" Democratic Party activist don't have to publish their credentials...any truth to that?

[Comrade Grumpy]

117. There's a lot of trollish behavior here these days. Don't feed 'em.

[noiretextatique]

33. i will give the obama administration credit

because there were massive, worldwide protests re: the Iraq war, and that didn't sway the bush administration from its mission at all.

[Cryptoad]

36. "massive, worldwide protests"

Really?

[noiretextatique]

37. really

you don't know that?

[Cryptoad]

41. "massive" is a subjective term,,,,

but I never saw what I would call "massive" but I guess you did! touche~

Thank you Mr Obama for showing us how to avoid another military conflict all the while neutralizing Syria Chemical Weapon capabilities! !

[noiretextatique]

44. of course i did: i participated in several

protests here in San Francisco. and they were MASSIVE, not like the bullshit teabagger rallies the MSM is so fond of covering. and they were worldwide. in fact, the MSM did everything they could to downplay the actual number of people at the protests.

[vlakitti]

169. The Same Here About San Francisco

I was there at the SF demontrations, too, and what noiretextatique says is absolutely accurate. And there were tremendously large demos against the Bush/Blair planned invasions all over Europe as well.

And of course a supine US congress and venal media ignored the whole uproar.

[Tveil]

47. lets say the protests weren't unbelievably small n/t

[Cryptoad]

55. I can go with that,,, nt

[HangOnKids]

73. Oh great another poster who signed up 5 years ago with almost NO posts chiming in

How delightful! Welcome.

[noiretextatique]

82. i mean really

[HangOnKids]

85. Hey it is the Hannah Montana show

Crappy canned laugh track and all.

[mimi85]

90. You haven't been a member

for two years yet. I didn't know that posts just for the sake of increasing your post count was mandatory.

[HangOnKids]

98. I joined and I post

A poster who joined up 5 years ago and hasn't posted, until recently is a bit different. Thanks for chiming in mimi85 it means a lot to me!

[bullsnarfle]

152. I am a "low poster"...

I only post once in a great while. Mostly I just read. There are several reasons for this:

You learn more with your mouth closed and your ears (or in this case, eyes) open.

A closed mouth gathers no foot.

But mainly it's because I cannot afford a computer, internet, or any of the related pricey stuff, and so my only contact with DU is on break at work. Sorry that us "poor folk" are annoying you with our low posts.

[HangOnKids]

163. Did I mention "poor folk"? I did not and too have been poor and it sucks!

Thanks for chiming in though, it means so very much that with your limited access you decided to reply to my post. God bless and have a great day.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

63. I was in a march with more than half a million people

Yes, that's massive.

[noiretextatique]

70. it sure as hell is

i was there too is up with Du these days?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

81. Just saw your previous post

I was also in San Francisco for 2 marches that went from the Ferry Building down Market Street to City Hall. The very wide street and the very wide sidewalks were completely filled with people.

No idea what's up with DU these days, but it's an embarrassment.

[noiretextatique]

84. it most certainly is: i might have met you in SF

we had a dedicated contingent that went to most of the protests.

[RC]

141. They voted for Obama the second time around and now think they are Democrats.

That's what up with DU. I doubt any were in the protests.

[noiretextatique]

170. excellent answer

thanks...I believe you are correct.

[noiretextatique]

78. perhaps

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022538297

[polly7]

83. You must have been sleeping.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=protest+iraq+war&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UqovUvzxI8LNiwLG9oCwCQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=699

[noiretextatique]

69. i take it you didn't attend any protests?

there were lots of pictures posted from around the world right here at DU.

[quakerboy]

119. Reading comprehension FAIL

Yes. There were MASSIVE WORLDWIDE protests of Mr. Bush's War in Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War

[Fantastic Anarchist]

35. Proud to kick and rec such a fine OP!

Thanks for posting.

[Old and In the Way]

40. So, lets say Obama didn't get the deal done with Russia and Syria wrt the chemical weapons.

With a strong bipartisan support against action, does that green light Assad to continue gassing the opposition? I wonder what the death threshold would be before the peace l0ving folks would start changing their minds? 100K, 250K, 500K? Of course, Obama could still be blamed for not making a forceful enough case when the original proposal was shot down by the peace loving Congress...

[grahamhgreen]

49. What if the gas is coming from al queda??? The situation is unclear.

[grahamhgreen]

43. Big K&R!! Keep up the pressure:)

[polly7]

45. You and all of the anti-war left rock, bvar! nt.

[99Forever]

46. A huge victory for us, indeed...

... the starry eyed Glee Club can claim credit all they please. Anyone with at least half a brain knows better.

Expect a huge uptick in dirty tricks by the assholes of the MIC, they REALLY hate getting told they can't play with their toys.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

50. I hate to think about -

what would be happening right now if the whip count or polls had been different. I think those are the things that really put the breaks (going to Congress) on this whole escapade.

The pols were getting an earful from their constituents -- the pressure must be kept up.

[kelliekat44]

51. Indeed!!!

[Roy Rolling]

54. Moving on....

Maybe we can tell the radical right TPP is one step toward Obamacare for all. I'm surprised they support it considering how much the president has favored this. But irony is lost on them, they wouldn't recognize a loss of sovereignty if it bit them on the ass.

[Phlem]

58. K&R!

copy that!

-p

[Eleanors38]

59. I supported Congressman Doggett (Austin) in opposing the anticipated bombing. k&R.

[gopiscrap]

60. Yes thank you activist brothers and sisters!

[democrank]

62. K & R

~PEACE~

[Roland99]

65. Wasn't as big and loud as the anti-war left in 2002/2003

The difference this time? The "liberal" media attacking him and the size of the protests from the right.

It's plain to see who really controls the media and the direction of policy in this nation and it ain't the left.

[paulrandfu]

66. And a shout out to the anti Obama right

they had a hand in it, all be it, for a different reason.

[forestpath]

72. K&R

[Sand Wind]

87. The Assad base rejoicing because Assad is still at war against Syria. Nt

[HangOnKids]

100. The Assad Base Rejoicing?

You might want to dial that down a bit. Just a tad.

[bvar22]

160. And Al Qaeda and the othere militant extremist factions are crying today

because they couldn't con the USA into doing the Heavy Lifting for them in Syria like they did in Libya.

[durablend]

161. Don't have a sad

You can still enlist.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

89. What's sad is if Romney had won the entire media would be talking about his "strength" in bombing.

[WillyT]

91. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[2banon]

93. Hear, Here..!!! K&R Outstanding Post!

Everything you said bvar22.. everything!

and we do know them by their WORKS!

[Paper Roses]

94. K&R n/t

[Zorra]

97. Solidarity!

[KoKo]

99. "Education of the People" allowed a great group of New Dems who are sick of

"Corporate War" on the rest of us and nations of the world to grow up and join us!

I know we've had it hard through Bush years...but, those were the years the Internet Grew and created "Social Media"...WikiLeaks, Way Back Machine...Search Engines...etc...

There's a great deal of work all of us did in the years since Clinton Impeachment through the Stolen 2000 Election and up to today.

There were people reading that we didn't even think about because we were digging for info and having interactions with those who knew details and how to connect the dots during those terrible times) who knew the America we thought we grew up with was rotting and in need of some big time reform.

Whatever...don't have time to write anything that's worth reading ....but, I think all that work we did for years and even back to the 60's for those of us who remember has created a wealth of information that others have grown up with and are now able to come forward to work hard for what we all uncovered through our own reading and experience. I think of the Snowdens and other Whistleblowers who can carry a Torch for Truth Out and others out there still working from the older ones who remember WWII to the younger ones who know the Internet Revolution.

All COMING TOGETHER. Sorry this is so jumbled.

[SammyWinstonJack]

101. rec!

[Nite Owl]

106. I'm proud to stand with

the left too. Gotta say it can be lonely over there but when we stand together it's the greatest feeling. We have to keep going----TPP and Social Security. They will be difficult fights but we know it can be done.

My congressman is a no vote. I'lm new to the district and very happy with him (Paul Tonko). The dems seem to have found a backbone!

[LWolf]

110. K&R

[pasto76]

111. Key word is "SOME" in regards to effect

looking back, the hysteria here is only a few weeks old. Apparently Sec Kerry has been working on this for MONTHS.

kind of takes the wind out of your sails. I mean is it so hard to believe that this President really does utilize all options and avenues? To most of you on DU, that makes him a tool, to me, it makes him a badass ninja.

[libdude]

116. Interesting responses

to this. Perhaps this whole issue is a perfect opportunity for Congress to regain the assigned Constitutional responsibility to initiate a Declaration of War. Another would be to force the President to comply with the War Powers Act and only use military force in the face of an immediate and present self-defense situation. Finally, to evaluate all international treaties that the U.S. is signator to.
I agree with the left and those of the right persuasion that let their opinions be known to the President, Congress, and the media that the American public, 60-72% were opposed to military intervention in Syria.
Any thoughts?

[locks]

122. Thank you!!

Hope and pray you're right.

[nashville_brook]

126. we *do* know them by their works...

makes things much easier.

[madrchsod]

127. oh well, i`ll have to suffer under his leadership for a few more years.

i`m old and have a bad heart but maybe i`ll last long enough to see president warren lead my country.

[YOHABLO]

128. Michelle Obama told him ''no'' or else he was sleeping in the Lincoln Bedroom alone!

[DeSwiss]

129. ''You will know them by their WORKS.''

- And the lack thereof.....

K&R

[L0oniX]

130. The POTUS war powers needs to be revoked. We can't have a POTUS commiting acts of war on his own.

The cold war is over ...what the fuck happened? Now we are the fucking world police? We thought the spying was between a few countries back then ...now it's a 1000 times more spying all over the world and on our own people. The mutha fuckas need to be forced to stop this shit! We were supposed to reap a benefit from not having a cold war. Guess who benefits ...the fucking MIC and no bid contractors.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

131. While we mourn the dead

adults and children in Syria, we MUST be active and visible in resettling the thousands who have fled primarily to Jordan. Their lives are hellish enough WITHOUT bombs. I wish there had been more emphasis on this in Obama's speech tonight.

But K&R for an excellent OP.

[pa28]

133. Your last line. Now we can stop the TPP.

Yes, public pressure and awareness works. We've got big fights coming up with the TPP, Social Security and Medicare.

This is encouraging!!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

135. only because most American's these days are either nutty fringe leftist or crackpot libertarian

Last edited Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:29 AM - Edit history (1)

rightest! We now live in a country where almost everyone are fringe. Are there no more mainstream people anymore?

If you can't understand how brilliantly President Obama manipulated the British Parliament into rejecting a military attack and had actually engineered a large revolt among House Democrats while bringing Vladimir Putin to his knees - if you don't get that you are nothing but part of the vast fringe majority.

[iamthebandfanman]

137. Oh I do remember Iraq (the war with congressional support)..

yes, the war based on BLATENT lies and old intelligence ... 107-243 was the count.

tell me again how having congress vote stops unnecessary wars?

to me, looks like all itll do is make the congress look like a joke once again...
voting pretty overwhelming for LIES but against when there are facts....
yeah, thatll show the world how we 'mericans get it done, eh ?

have fun in your land of make believe where the threat of a strike didn't contribute to the Russians sudden interest in playing diplomats (remember, they had given us THREATS just a week before if we dared to intervene and told us to butt out).

[idwiyo]

138. K&R

[michigandem58]

143. They had no role, and the far left rarely accomplishes anything

Except electing Republicans.

[Scootaloo]

145. How's that Joementum going, my pro-war centrist friend?

[michigandem58]

148. I'm a supporter of President Obama

and voted for him each of the last two elections.

[bvar22]

168. I'm a supporter of the New Orleans Saints too!!!

..but it was WRONG to put a cash bounty on players on the other team.

SEE!!!
Unlike some Purists here who demand Unquestioned Allegiance to EVERYTHING Obama,
one CAN be a supporter of the President and the Democratic Party,
and STILL call them out when they are WRONG.

In fact, the STRONGEST supporters SPEAK UP when the leadership turns down the wrong path.
That is what REAL support is.




You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[Scootaloo]

177. And you support the president by screeching anti-left rhetoric?

That's cute, in a "the dog has his head stuck in the peanut butter jar" sort of way.

Tell you what, my pro-war, anti-left compadre. Give me a call if you ever manage to fit all twenty pounds of your bullshit in that ten-pound bag you've got

[DLevine]

146. K&R. nt

[Jasana]

147. I"m here...

and I have no problem being part of "the fringe."

[bullwinkle428]

149. In little Moline, IL, across the river from me this past Sunday,

there was a very nice group of people out there on a very busy corner of town with their "No war in Syria" signs! Clearly, scenes like this were taking place all across the country, and despite what the deniers say, HAD to play a huge role in the way things have evolved over the past 3 days.

K&R.

[Overseas]

151. K&R. Well said.

[Mosaic]

153. You are not really on the left

If you aren't anti-war!

[G_j]

155. +100000

[obxhead]

162. It wasn't just the anti war left.

Many extreme eighties also stood against this war from the beginning as well.

Obama has been more than happy to roll the bus right over the liberal left, even backing it up to be sure at times. It was a unified effort that steered the bus down the muddy track its on right now.

[raouldukelives]

164. K&R! nt

[kenfrequed]

167. Thank you.

I was on the edge and was worried about Syria's use of chemical weapons and what effects that would have on the treaty.

But I am so glad that there were so many willing to stand their ground against war.

[great white snark]

171. President Obama and the anti war Democrats thank you.

I say "anti war Democrats" because the anti war left includes all the "I support what Obama doesn't" left who are now inexorably interwoven.

[felix_numinous]

172. A loud and persistent voice

from the citizenry can make US part of the negotiations--because if we are not as compliant or willing to fight then having willing soldiers can make this an issue, IMHO.

I cannot pretend to know what just happened. By the very nature of war, the populace IS kept out of the loop--another reason why I abhor a military state. We are kept out of decision making, which is why it is necessary to double down on efforts to be heard. People can call anti-war people 'hair on fire' all they want, but it is exactly what is necessary in order to drown out war drums once they start.

Thank you Bvar22 for your strong presence.

[blackspade]

173. Yes.