Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:21 PM Sep 2013

The "In the Interest of OUR National Security" argument from Obama's speech last night.

THIS is the most important element of President Obama's speech last night.


Here is the pertinent excerpt from Obama's speech.
(I added the numbered bullet points to try to minimize the confusion
in the president's argument. He presented this argument in paragraph form. I added ONLY the numbers for the sake of clarification. Every word is a direct quote from his speech, and nothing was deleted.)


"...it’s also a danger to our security.
Let me explain why.

1) If we fail to act, the Assad regime will see no reason to stop using chemical weapons.

2) As the ban against these weapons erodes, other tyrants will have no reason to think twice about acquiring poison gas, and using them.

3)Over time, our troops would again face the prospect of chemical warfare on the battlefield.

4)And it could be easier for terrorist organizations to obtain these weapons, and to use them to attack civilians.

5)If fighting spills beyond Syria’s borders, these weapons could threaten allies like Turkey, Jordan, and Israel.

6)And a failure to stand against the use of chemical weapons would weaken prohibitions against other weapons of mass destruction,

7)and embolden Assad’s ally, Iran -- which must decide whether to ignore international law by building a nuclear weapon, or to take a more peaceful path.

This is not a world we should accept. This is what’s at stake. And that is why, after careful deliberation, I determined that it is in the national security interests of the United States to respond to the Assad regime’s use of chemical weapons through a targeted military strike."


Aside from the 6 degrees of speculation,
and the fact that this is only ONE very creative scenario among many different diverging predictions about the future in the Middle East whether we BOMB Syria or not,
I really don't SEE the "Imminent Threat" necessary to justify taking Military Action.

Do you buy this as an immediate threat to the USA?

Do you feel that this is a valid justification for Military Action in Syria at this time.

Would you believe George Bush if he had used this Threat to OUR National Security theory to Authorized a Military Strike on Syria?


[font size=3]“The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”[/font] ---Senator Obama, 12-20-2007





40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The "In the Interest of OUR National Security" argument from Obama's speech last night. (Original Post) bvar22 Sep 2013 OP
It will make our children safer. The Link Sep 2013 #1
Or not highprincipleswork Sep 2013 #2
The whole thing seems like a HUGE stretch. bvar22 Sep 2013 #6
Checkmate. DontTreadOnMe Sep 2013 #5
That logic and your 6 hidden posts are so convincing. HangOnKids Sep 2013 #7
Sshh. Grown ups are talking. NuclearDem Sep 2013 #8
Poll: Most U.S. citizens don't want strike against Syria noiretextatique Sep 2013 #12
So if you were the President, you would govern by polls? DontTreadOnMe Sep 2013 #17
no, i was referring to your "Obama wins" comment noiretextatique Sep 2013 #26
Do you think I am against an American win? DontTreadOnMe Sep 2013 #36
OBAMA is not AMERICA: get it?!? noiretextatique Sep 2013 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author noiretextatique Sep 2013 #26
Henry Kissinger probably wrote that part of the speech. KoKo Sep 2013 #3
yet again another US president proclaims himself leader of the new world order nt msongs Sep 2013 #4
But..but...there is precedent. Think of the Mighty Grenadian Invasion Fleet we were saved from. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2013 #9
It's bullshit, woo me with science Sep 2013 #10
Still making predictions about what's going to happen? JoePhilly Sep 2013 #13
Oh, Joe. woo me with science Sep 2013 #15
No. bvar22 Sep 2013 #16
When did President Obama call for a NEW WAR (all caps yours)? JoePhilly Sep 2013 #24
"6 degrees of speculation" ... sounds like most of the OPs on DU lately. JoePhilly Sep 2013 #11
HE'S CUTTING SOCIAL SECURITY! HE'S BOMBING SYRIA! HE'S SPYING ON US ALL! JaneyVee Sep 2013 #18
More scenarios means more opportunities to complain. great white snark Sep 2013 #20
Would you care to explain how Syria is a direct threat to us Hydra Sep 2013 #23
They aren't ... the President has said they aren't. JoePhilly Sep 2013 #28
Sure, and if they do, you'll be right behind it. n/t Hydra Sep 2013 #29
If "they" "do" what? And if they do, which "it" will I be behind? JoePhilly Sep 2013 #31
he isn't arguing that it is an imminent threat Enrique Sep 2013 #14
Sure, lets wait until the threat is imminent. JaneyVee Sep 2013 #19
LOL. ocpagu Sep 2013 #21
Lets just KILL Them ALL, bvar22 Sep 2013 #22
Oh wow Hydra Sep 2013 #25
Hate to hear right-wing talking-points, fear, and paranoia being parroted by my President indepat Sep 2013 #30
And the SOS, for weeks now. Deny and Shred Sep 2013 #33
This rhetoric tells us something, not just sure what, but whatever, indepat Sep 2013 #38
Yep...lots of us do...because we expected better.... KoKo Sep 2013 #39
Here's what the President said last night that may offer some insight: snappyturtle Sep 2013 #32
There does seem to an element of contradiction in the President's speech. Maedhros Sep 2013 #34
I think that too....well, there were other contradictions so snappyturtle Sep 2013 #35
Iran threatens payback, Russia sends warships felix_numinous Sep 2013 #37
 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
2. Or not
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:25 PM
Sep 2013

Who knows what it would do? Start a regional or global conflagration maybe.

Risky business, for very little proof, and with so many other options out there.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
6. The whole thing seems like a HUGE stretch.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:31 PM
Sep 2013

This Rube Goldberg concoction of loosely joined "If" and "then" suppositions to the exclusion of other possibilities is more than just a little insulting to rational people with even a rudimentary sense of History in that region of the World.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
12. Poll: Most U.S. citizens don't want strike against Syria
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:45 PM
Sep 2013

no...americans win, because I doubt that speech changes these numbers.

Published: Sept. 9, 2013 at 7:59 AM






PRINCETON, N.J., Sept. 9 (UPI) -- Eight in 10 U.S. citizens believe Syrian President Bashar Assad used chemical weapons, but most don't want a U.S. strike on Syria, poll numbers indicate.

More than seven in 10 U.S. citizens don't want the United States to get involved in Syria's 2-year-old civil war, the CNN/ORC International poll released Monday shows.

A Gallup poll released Monday indicates 51 percent of U.S. citizens oppose military action against Syria and 36 percent favor it.

Obama asked Congress on Aug. 31 to authorize a military strike against Syria in response to the Assad regime's gas attack in Aug. 21 in suburban Damascus, which the Obama administration alleges killed more than 1,400 people, including hundreds of children.

In an interview with PBS' Charlie Rose, Assad said he had nothing to do with the attack.

Congress could decide as early as Wednesday whether to approve Obama's proposed military action.

The CNN poll was conducted Sept. 6-8 with 1,022 adults who were surveyed by telephone. The margin of error was 3 percent.

The Gallup poll was conducted Sept. 3-4 with 1,021 adults interviewed by telephone. The margin of error was 4 percent.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/09/09/Poll-Most-US-citizens-dont-want-strike-against-Syria/UPI-22381378727967/#ixzz2ecChZe3b

 

DontTreadOnMe

(2,442 posts)
17. So if you were the President, you would govern by polls?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:04 PM
Sep 2013

How about these polls...


Sep 6, 2003 - A Time magazine/CNN poll released Saturday said most Americans — 71% — believe the United States has done a good job in Iraq

-- or this one --

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.

Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved.



The next time you show me a "poll" on what Americans think about war, I am just going to laugh at you.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
26. no, i was referring to your "Obama wins" comment
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:37 PM
Sep 2013

it seems that the American public also wins this time. at least for now.

Response to DontTreadOnMe (Reply #17)

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
3. Henry Kissinger probably wrote that part of the speech.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:25 PM
Sep 2013

Since Kerry is meeting with him today...his influence might have been wandering around the halls of the WH recently.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
9. But..but...there is precedent. Think of the Mighty Grenadian Invasion Fleet we were saved from.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:43 PM
Sep 2013

Not to mention countless other "imminent threats" from Honduras, Nicaragua, Angola, Chile, Nicaragua, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Greece, Iran, Lebanon, etc, etc, and etc.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
10. It's bullshit,
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:44 PM
Sep 2013

and it will be a war crime.

Thank you for emphasizing this:

“The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.” ---Senator Obama, 12-20-2007

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
13. Still making predictions about what's going to happen?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:46 PM
Sep 2013

After the last 3 weeks, you'd think some on DU would take a break from predicting the outcome of the events surrounding Syria.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
16. No.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:03 PM
Sep 2013

Still OPPOSING elective Military Strikes on a country that HAS NOT
and CAN NOT threaten us.

It really is that simple,
unlike the number of contortions required for the SUPPORTERS of more Death & Destruction in the Middle East, only THIS time with OUR names on those Dead Babies.

My position has not changed in the slightest.
That is the benefit of being Values & Policy Oriented.
We not subject to the reactionary contortions of the Camp Followers dictated by the ever changing whims of Bell Cow.

Can we assume that you would have supported George Bush if he made that same convoluted and highly speculative argument for a NEW WAR?

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
24. When did President Obama call for a NEW WAR (all caps yours)?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:33 PM
Sep 2013

That hasn't happened.

And sure, there have been plenty of speculative predictions about how Obama was about to start a new war in Syria, a 2nd Iraq war as it has been described.

And yet ... he's called for no such thing ... except in the minds of the perpetually disgruntled.

As for positions ... here are mine.

I supported Clinton's limited us of the military in humanitarian objectives, opposed most of the others.

I supported Bush on Afghanistan, initially (until Bush took his eye off the ball).

Was very much against invasion and war with Iraq, a war that Bush actually called for.

As for Syria, I'm against strikes because I doubt they have much real impact, but I have no problem with using that threat to get Assad to give up the chemical weapons.

I also think Obama's isn't bluffing. And he's also not calling for a NEW WAR ... no matter how loud some on DU predict it that not only does he want it, but that its going to actually happen.

After all, the same folks screaming now were sure Libya and Egypt were going to become 2nd Iraq wars too.

great white snark

(2,646 posts)
20. More scenarios means more opportunities to complain.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:14 PM
Sep 2013

Throw out some speculation and see which ones stick...which ones cause the most outrage even though it may never happen.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
23. Would you care to explain how Syria is a direct threat to us
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:33 PM
Sep 2013

So that the President would be authorized to do war upon them?

Cuz this is the President's 6 degrees of speculation being used.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
31. If "they" "do" what? And if they do, which "it" will I be behind?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:53 PM
Sep 2013

Or do I need some secret decoder ring for this discussion?

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
14. he isn't arguing that it is an imminent threat
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:47 PM
Sep 2013

that 2007 quote is no longer operative, he has evolved from it.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
21. LOL.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:14 PM
Sep 2013

Yeah, sure, Assad will send his navy to cross the oceans from Middle East to America and then fire chemical weapons on the US coast...

Really, that's fucking stupid.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
22. Lets just KILL Them ALL,
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:22 PM
Sep 2013

THEN, we will finally be safe!
Hey! That could be our Final Solution!!!

Do you have ANY idea how many non-imminent threats there ARE in this WORLD? ANYTHING can be construed as a "threat" if you give me as many If/Then suppositions as the President used in his speech last night.


snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
32. Here's what the President said last night that may offer some insight:
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:04 PM
Sep 2013
Other questions involve the dangers of retaliation. We don't dismiss any threats, but the Assad regime does not have the ability to seriously threaten our military. Any other -- any other retaliation they might seek is in line with threats that we face every day. Neither Assad nor his allies have any interest in escalation that would lead to his demise. And our ally Israel can defend itself with overwhelming force, as well as the unshakable support of the United States of America.


 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
34. There does seem to an element of contradiction in the President's speech.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:24 PM
Sep 2013

We must attack, because the regime that can't hurt us or our allies is an imminent threat.

Curious.

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
35. I think that too....well, there were other contradictions so
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:27 PM
Sep 2013

maybe that was the plan. Most people hear what they want
to hear.

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
37. Iran threatens payback, Russia sends warships
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:12 PM
Sep 2013

--who in their RIGHT mind cannot see how fast and easy bombing can escalate. Just saw these headlines on USA today.

Pause and think.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The "In the Interest...