General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe "In the Interest of OUR National Security" argument from Obama's speech last night.
THIS is the most important element of President Obama's speech last night.
Here is the pertinent excerpt from Obama's speech.
(I added the numbered bullet points to try to minimize the confusion
in the president's argument. He presented this argument in paragraph form. I added ONLY the numbers for the sake of clarification. Every word is a direct quote from his speech, and nothing was deleted.)
"...its also a danger to our security.
Let me explain why.
1) If we fail to act, the Assad regime will see no reason to stop using chemical weapons.
2) As the ban against these weapons erodes, other tyrants will have no reason to think twice about acquiring poison gas, and using them.
3)Over time, our troops would again face the prospect of chemical warfare on the battlefield.
4)And it could be easier for terrorist organizations to obtain these weapons, and to use them to attack civilians.
5)If fighting spills beyond Syrias borders, these weapons could threaten allies like Turkey, Jordan, and Israel.
6)And a failure to stand against the use of chemical weapons would weaken prohibitions against other weapons of mass destruction,
7)and embolden Assads ally, Iran -- which must decide whether to ignore international law by building a nuclear weapon, or to take a more peaceful path.
This is not a world we should accept. This is whats at stake. And that is why, after careful deliberation, I determined that it is in the national security interests of the United States to respond to the Assad regimes use of chemical weapons through a targeted military strike."
Aside from the 6 degrees of speculation,
and the fact that this is only ONE very creative scenario among many different diverging predictions about the future in the Middle East whether we BOMB Syria or not,
I really don't SEE the "Imminent Threat" necessary to justify taking Military Action.
Do you buy this as an immediate threat to the USA?
Do you feel that this is a valid justification for Military Action in Syria at this time.
Would you believe George Bush if he had used this Threat to OUR National Security theory to Authorized a Military Strike on Syria?
[font size=3]The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.[/font] ---Senator Obama, 12-20-2007
The Link
(757 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Who knows what it would do? Start a regional or global conflagration maybe.
Risky business, for very little proof, and with so many other options out there.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)This Rube Goldberg concoction of loosely joined "If" and "then" suppositions to the exclusion of other possibilities is more than just a little insulting to rational people with even a rudimentary sense of History in that region of the World.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)You lost.
Obama wins.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)no...americans win, because I doubt that speech changes these numbers.
Published: Sept. 9, 2013 at 7:59 AM
PRINCETON, N.J., Sept. 9 (UPI) -- Eight in 10 U.S. citizens believe Syrian President Bashar Assad used chemical weapons, but most don't want a U.S. strike on Syria, poll numbers indicate.
More than seven in 10 U.S. citizens don't want the United States to get involved in Syria's 2-year-old civil war, the CNN/ORC International poll released Monday shows.
A Gallup poll released Monday indicates 51 percent of U.S. citizens oppose military action against Syria and 36 percent favor it.
Obama asked Congress on Aug. 31 to authorize a military strike against Syria in response to the Assad regime's gas attack in Aug. 21 in suburban Damascus, which the Obama administration alleges killed more than 1,400 people, including hundreds of children.
In an interview with PBS' Charlie Rose, Assad said he had nothing to do with the attack.
Congress could decide as early as Wednesday whether to approve Obama's proposed military action.
The CNN poll was conducted Sept. 6-8 with 1,022 adults who were surveyed by telephone. The margin of error was 3 percent.
The Gallup poll was conducted Sept. 3-4 with 1,021 adults interviewed by telephone. The margin of error was 4 percent.
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/09/09/Poll-Most-US-citizens-dont-want-strike-against-Syria/UPI-22381378727967/#ixzz2ecChZe3b
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)How about these polls...
Sep 6, 2003 - A Time magazine/CNN poll released Saturday said most Americans 71% believe the United States has done a good job in Iraq
-- or this one --
Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
WASHINGTON (AP) Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.
Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved.
The next time you show me a "poll" on what Americans think about war, I am just going to laugh at you.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)it seems that the American public also wins this time. at least for now.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)what is it with DUers these days.
Obama wins.. Be Happy!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)that's more my point.
Response to DontTreadOnMe (Reply #17)
noiretextatique This message was self-deleted by its author.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Since Kerry is meeting with him today...his influence might have been wandering around the halls of the WH recently.
msongs
(67,361 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Not to mention countless other "imminent threats" from Honduras, Nicaragua, Angola, Chile, Nicaragua, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Greece, Iran, Lebanon, etc, etc, and etc.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)and it will be a war crime.
Thank you for emphasizing this:
The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation. ---Senator Obama, 12-20-2007
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)After the last 3 weeks, you'd think some on DU would take a break from predicting the outcome of the events surrounding Syria.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)I'm sorry discussion is so frustrating for you.
Still OPPOSING elective Military Strikes on a country that HAS NOT
and CAN NOT threaten us.
It really is that simple,
unlike the number of contortions required for the SUPPORTERS of more Death & Destruction in the Middle East, only THIS time with OUR names on those Dead Babies.
My position has not changed in the slightest.
That is the benefit of being Values & Policy Oriented.
We not subject to the reactionary contortions of the Camp Followers dictated by the ever changing whims of Bell Cow.
Can we assume that you would have supported George Bush if he made that same convoluted and highly speculative argument for a NEW WAR?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)That hasn't happened.
And sure, there have been plenty of speculative predictions about how Obama was about to start a new war in Syria, a 2nd Iraq war as it has been described.
And yet ... he's called for no such thing ... except in the minds of the perpetually disgruntled.
As for positions ... here are mine.
I supported Clinton's limited us of the military in humanitarian objectives, opposed most of the others.
I supported Bush on Afghanistan, initially (until Bush took his eye off the ball).
Was very much against invasion and war with Iraq, a war that Bush actually called for.
As for Syria, I'm against strikes because I doubt they have much real impact, but I have no problem with using that threat to get Assad to give up the chemical weapons.
I also think Obama's isn't bluffing. And he's also not calling for a NEW WAR ... no matter how loud some on DU predict it that not only does he want it, but that its going to actually happen.
After all, the same folks screaming now were sure Libya and Egypt were going to become 2nd Iraq wars too.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Nope.
great white snark
(2,646 posts)Throw out some speculation and see which ones stick...which ones cause the most outrage even though it may never happen.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)So that the President would be authorized to do war upon them?
Cuz this is the President's 6 degrees of speculation being used.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Or do I need some secret decoder ring for this discussion?
Enrique
(27,461 posts)that 2007 quote is no longer operative, he has evolved from it.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Yeah, sure, Assad will send his navy to cross the oceans from Middle East to America and then fire chemical weapons on the US coast...
Really, that's fucking stupid.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)THEN, we will finally be safe!
Hey! That could be our Final Solution!!!
Do you have ANY idea how many non-imminent threats there ARE in this WORLD? ANYTHING can be construed as a "threat" if you give me as many If/Then suppositions as the President used in his speech last night.
Would you like a side of Enabling Act to go with that?
indepat
(20,899 posts)Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)I agree, the rhetoric is new for them both, and unsettling.
indepat
(20,899 posts)it is eerily disquieting
KoKo
(84,711 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)We must attack, because the regime that can't hurt us or our allies is an imminent threat.
Curious.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)maybe that was the plan. Most people hear what they want
to hear.
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)--who in their RIGHT mind cannot see how fast and easy bombing can escalate. Just saw these headlines on USA today.
Pause and think.