Start schooling later than age five, say experts

[FarCenter]

Traditional lessons should be put on hold for up to two years amid fears that successive governments have promoted a “too much, too soon” culture in schools and nurseries, it is claimed.

In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, the group of academics, teachers, authors and charity leaders call for a fundamental reassessment of national policies on early education.

It is claimed that the current system robs infants of the ability to play and puts too much emphasis on formal learning in areas such as the three Rs at a young age. The letter warns that the Coalition is now ratcheting up the requirements with policies that prioritise “school readiness” over free play.

This includes the possible introduction of a new baseline test for five-year-olds in England and qualifications for child care staff that make little reference to learning through play, they say.

The letter – signed by 127 senior figures including Sir Al Aynsley-Green, the former Children’s Commissioner for England, Lord Layard, director of the Well-Being Programme at the London School of Economics, Dr David Whitebread, senior lecturer in psychology of education at Cambridge University, and Catherine Prisk, director of Play England – suggests that children should actually be allowed to start formal education later to give them more time to develop.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10302249/Start-schooling-later-than-age-five-say-experts.html

[msongs]

1. we can put them in corporate sweat shops while waiting a few years for school nt

[Faryn Balyncd]

23. or eat them. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

[NYC_SKP]

2. I think there's a lot of truth here.

Of course it depends upon the nature of the early childhood education program and what the child's experience would be without the program.

In horrible homes, it may be better that kids be with caring folks, even if they aren't providing the healthy play and discovery activities.

Too often, programs are trying to force first and second grade skills and behaviors down pre-school age kids' throats.

.

[winter is coming]

4. Kindergarten really is the new first grade.

A lot of 5 and 6 year olds, especially boys, just aren't ready for traditional school. We place too much emphasis on lockstep age-oriented education instead of looking at what kids are ready for, and if you get off to a bad start in school, you're screwed.

[NYC_SKP]

5. It's indoctrination rather than play. Really there should be more play through K12.

Play is what makes for great innovations, great works of art, and for happy people.

School is far too much about conformity and obedience.

And I speak as someone in the profession.

[winter is coming]

11. You know what's funny/sad about that? Learning through play isn't a new idea.

I can remember reading about a one-room school teacher having that epiphany in a
book published in 1949 and I doubt he's the first teacher who ever thought of it.

[Luminous Animal]

22. I homeschooled my daughter. All of her education was through play.

Any rigor was through her own volition.

[B Calm]

26. I couldn't believe, but my grandaughter has homework in kindergarten!

[Mariana]

29. It's sickening, isn't it?

I bet most of it is crap busywork, given just for the purpose of making the kids do homework.

[Squinch]

7. I have long wondered this: we require that kindergarteners meet

behavioral and cognitive standards that are more appropriate to kids who have had 50% more developmental time. How much do those behavioral requirements contribute to the explosion in the numbers of kids who are diagnosed with ADHD?

Kindergarten used to be the place where you learned self regulation: sitting and listening to a story, and then getting up and singing a song with arm movements, and then playing duck duck goose, then doing finger painting on a large piece of paper. They regulated, then they got a burst of activity to work off the stress of the regulation. We've eliminated the step where they work off the stress, and we've increased the stress by requiring activities, like writing small letters on ruled paper, which are more appropriate to kids who are years older.

[FedUpWithIt All]

17. My son just started kindergarten

When we went to the orientation he was so thrilled after seeing the collection of building materials, puzzles, books and toys they had on the shelves. We prepared him that the majority of his time would be spent in quiet learning. Still, he could not wait for school to start.

Now, nearly every day since school began, the poor kid comes home to tell me that they didn't have time to play. He relates how the kids talked so much during their class time that the teacher couldn't get "all the learning done" and they had to skip play time as a result. He was reprimanded, one day, for placing his hand near another child while trying to demonstrate the approximate size of a superball he has here at home. Apparently, the teacher felt he went too far into the other child's "bubble". Every day he comes home weepy and looking tired and overwhelmed.


It is a shame because i know all of this is setting a precedent for for him regarding school.

[liberal_at_heart]

18. I have spent years trying to undo the damage done by my son's school. I have tried to teach him

that he is not stupid. He is quite the opposite. He is intelligent and bright. I have told him that he learns differently and that the school just doesn't teach him the way he needs to learn. I have taught him that he is not to give up. He has to do his work. He has to put in the effort, but if it doesn't get all the way finished I don't care. We have a moto. Do what you can and don't worry about the rest. What a waste of an educational opportunity. And all because they expect all kids to learn the exact same way like robots.

[FedUpWithIt All]

20. I'm glad your boy has you to encourage him.

It does make such a difference when kids have loving support at home.

My son is my fourth child and his sisters each had a different experience with their early schooling. They are all so different.

[Squinch]

35. I am so sorry. A 5 year old shouldn't have to go through that. I would say

that I hope the teacher wises up, but it isn't the teacher. She's just doing what she is told to do.

[Squinch]

3. YAY! I love to see this. But this is an idea that actually has some

data to support its effectiveness, so we'll never institute it.

[gulliver]

6. Play time is absolutely fundamental.

Recess and PE are just as important as math and reading.

[reformist2]

8. Is school really all that hard when you're under 10? I remember liking it.

And the biggest part of school at that age, is learning to get along with other kids, even if they aren't your close friends. Can't do that if everyone's home "playing."

[TeamPooka]

38. "When I was that age..." is just another way of denying the scientific results

of the report.
You don't want to be the science-denier old-coot type in a progressive forum of people trying to advance a process into the 21st century.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Ridiculous

Here in the US, the value of preschool becomes more important all the time.

[El Supremo]

52. I agree.

I started pre-school at four and it helped me a lot.

[daleo]

10. There is a lot of evidence that early kindergarten is good for most kids

Here is just a recent study that supported this notion, for example.

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/11/27/td-early-childhood-education

[Glitterati]

12. I agree, and my daughter is living proof

My daughter was born on September 1 - the cutoff birthdate for starting school in a given year. So, she could have started K at 5 on the day she turned 5. And, we enrolled her in public school.

However, she just wasn't ready. It was too intimidating, frightening and just plain scary for her. She cried every day, all day. She was miserable and so very unhappy about school. On top of that, she was disrupting her older sister's education because she would cry for her sister and have her pulled out of class to try and calm her down.

Luckily, I live in a state where we had a choice to send her to a private pre-K program or K. So we pulled her out to a half day pre-K with a class size of 8 kids for that year.

There she thrived.

When we put her in public school the next year, we had no issues, no problems. She was ready for school.

And, this May, my daughter graduated HS a year early by doubling up on her junior and senior classes in a public charter as class valedictorian.

Each child is different and we MUST be able to do what is best for a child's education and not blindly follow the rules. Had we not pulled her out of school when she wasn't ready, the only thing she would have learned would have been to hate school, to hate learning, to resent all those who were only trying to teach.

Children are not robots who must blindly be led to oblivion because the "rules" say they should.

[liberal_at_heart]

13. I'd say that's good advice given our current education environment.

I wish I had done that with my son. He is currently two years behind where our current school system thinks he should be.

[Blue_In_AK]

14. I don't think one size fits all.

None of my kids went to preschool, but when they started kindergarten, each of them was at a different stage of development. My oldest got right into it like most kids, learning a few words, counting things, playing games. The second daughter barely knew her ABC's when she started kindergarten. I think it was around that time when she said to me, "I guess it's time for me to learn these things." She just wasn't interested. (She's a lawyer now.). My youngest was reading Stephen King novels when she was four. No exaggeration; she taught herself how to read. She had to wait a year to start school because her birthday is in October. I started her in piano lessons when she was four because she was so eager to learn. Music is still her great love.

I suppose education can't be tailor-made for each individual child, but there should be options.

[laundry_queen]

61. That's exactly it.

I have 4 girls. They are all so different. My oldest couldn't wait to go to school and she's never had any issues. She was always at the head of her class. My second daughter was indifferent to it all...didn't care, went through the motions and did fine. My third daughter was anxious to go - I probably could've started her earlier, she is incredibly smart and her birthday is only a month after the cut off. My fourth daughter's birthday is only 13 days after the cut off, I could've pushed to start her early. I didn't because she wasn't ready. She went when she was supposed to and is the oldest kid in her class. She's just started first grade and I feel like she could've benefitted from another year at home. She has high anxiety levels and cries before school often. She does well and is very bright and has friends but some days it seems she's just traumatized by being away from me. My explanation is she's my only kid who had to deal with going to child care and so she is clingy compared to the others who couldn't wait to get the heck away from me, LOL.

None of mine went to preschool either. I never believed in trying to give them a 'head start' on school work. I am an attentive parent who tries to show my kids lessons in every day activities. I have no doubt earlier childhood education benefits children who would otherwise be left at a crappy daycare or who had inattentive parents, but for kids who have a parent at home, or even a very attentive caregiver during the day and attentive parents in the evening I don't think it makes a big difference and it can harm them if they aren't emotionally ready.

I also know that its more difficult for highly active boys. My brother had serious issues in elementary because he was very active and super smart, so he was easily bored. He was always getting in trouble. He was diagnosed as ADD and put on Ritalin. He had suicidal thoughts so my parents immediately took him off it, got a second opinion ("he doesn't have ADD! he's BORED!&quot and instead had a conference with his teachers and principal and told them they needed to work with him and stop punishing him for being smart and finishing early and being bored. The following year he had a really good teacher who gave him a ton of challenging work or would put him in charge of organizing activities while others were working. Presto, he was a model student. In high school he won a prize for the highest math mark in the province. Today he's a civil engineer. I think had he been in school now, he'd have definitely been labeled as a problem. 30 years ago things were different and my parents got lucky with one good teacher.

I personally was bored silly in school. I could've benefitted from a gifted program, without a doubt. They don't have those programs where I am. I asked about my 3rd daughter, since she's often bored, and was told that each teacher is equipped to handle the whole spectrum of students. I had a talk with her teacher who promised to challenge my daughter more, but my daughter said she would get an extra worksheet and she was mad that I had said anything, LOL. Instead I try to challenge her more at home. There's no other choice.

I've been lucky in that my girls are very compliant and quiet. If I'd have had a challenging child or an active child things might be different. I agree that education needs to be more personalized and less standardized - for both those who need more challenging work and those who aren't ready yet.

[SheilaT]

15. I know that Finland doesn't start school

until age 7. And the Finns seem to be doing just okay.

While there are clear-cut differences in readiness, I've gotten more and more bothered over the years by the way Kindergarten has become the new first grade. Why?

Kindergarten, at least when I attended 60 years ago, was the place where you learned how to get along with others, to name your colors, to count to ten, and maybe a few other things. Now, kids are expected to be reading by the end of kindergarten. Why?

Again, kids are vastly different, even coming from the same families. My sister's oldest was one of those who somehow magically learned to read on her own.(Her other two learned to read in first grade.) My oldest still couldn't read at the start of second grade. (My younger one learned to read in pre-school in a Montessori program.) What I think are the reasons aren't important, but fortunately the school put him in what they called Special Reading, meaning with a tutor, and after a while he caught on and could read quite well, thank you very much. Sister's oldest never went beyond high school. My son is currently working on a physics degree. So how soon a kid learns to read isn't the only thing that determines academic success.

I also think that a huge problem is that we have one and only one age cut-off. You turn five by a particular date and you start kindergarten. Okay, so parents can and do sometimes hold their kids back, which in a way makes things worse. If everyone adheres to the cutoff date it means that the oldest kid in the class will be 364 days older than the youngest, which is a HUGE difference at that age. Holding back actually makes things worse. My oldest was born on December 22. He wound up in school with kids more than a full year older than he was. Invariably the kids held back were always large for their age. Weird.

Anyway, my solution would be to have two starting dates for school, one in the fall and one in January. Allow some slack, of course, but a kid who perhaps was old enough to have started in the fall, but the parents felt wasn't quite ready, would then start in January. Then you'd reduce the age differential between oldest and youngest by quite a bit. Of course, unless you figure out a way to get all kids on the same path by perhaps 4th grade -- which is probably doable -- you'll then have to deal with two graduation dates, one in December the other in May/June. Heck, colleges do it.

[liberal_at_heart]

16. My kids didn't have a problem. They both missed the cut off date and never had any social problems.

Academically my daughter thrived. My son however could have used another year or two before he started academics. Preschool was fantastic for him. When he started preschool he was pretty much non verbal, still wearing diapers, couldn't follow directions, couldn't socialize. Preschool helped him advance a lot. But academically he could of used some more time before he was expected to read, write, and do math.

[SheilaT]

19. You make the point about how kids are very different.

One enormous problem with conventional schools, be they public, parochial, or private, is that kids are expected to progress in lockstep.

In first grade, when my older son was just not getting the reading, he was ready to move much farther ahead in math. I was frustrated and angry that the kids who were catching on to the reading could move on, and son was stuck with the others in math.

In the long run he did just fine. He learned to read. Today he is working on his physics degree and I think that twenty years from now if I were to mention his name and you knew much about physics you'd be saying, "Wow, that's your son?!!"

It's the inability of schools to properly handle individual differences that's the problem. I've never taught school, so I hesitate to say I know what the solution is. One is smaller classrooms.

I do have two friends who decided to homeschool for a period of time because of such problems. One did it for one year, her son's 7th grade year, the other for about five years, starting at 3rd or 4th grade, and transitioning back into public school around 9th grade. Both kids turned out just fine also.

[mnhtnbb]

25. My oldest had a birthdate that missed the cut-off by 5 days.

Also, states (at least 20 years ago) have different cut off dates. If we'd stayed
in California--where he was born--he could have started the fall he turned 5. In Missouri,
where we had moved when he was 3, the public school refused to start him. When I joked
with the superintendent of the school district that if I'd only known we'd be moving to MO,
I would have had him induced on his due date--3 days before their cut off date--he didn't think that
was funny. I had him enrolled in both 3 year old and 4 year old pre-school at the same time, trying to see where he best
fit. I took him to a child psychologist, who tested him, and confirmed my opinion, that he
was ready to start school. Armed with that info, I went to talk to the new principal at
the parochial school in town. She agreed to let him start. It just so happened that
the parochial kindergarten had Apple computers in the classroom (1991)--and that's where he picked
up his love for computers that has stayed with him and become his career.

[k2qb3]

21. I don't know about that...

My daughters first experience in school system at 32 months for speech therapy was fantastic. She went to a private preschool at 3 and they played all morning, which was great. Then she went to public pre-K at 4, again just until lunch, which was mostly play and helping anyone who had an issue with whatever it was, and really basic stuff like letters and numbers and the basic rules of human interaction in a school environment. This year she's in K-5 and she's reading less than a month in (she's been capable of it for a long time, but never interested until they started teaching the first words in class, now she's determined to read on her own initiative) she loves her school, and is really excited about learning and being an asset to her friends and her class, they play a lot and learn in fun ways, really the whole experience has been amazing, much, much better than mine was growing up. It has been the same for my other kids who needed less special attention as well.

Every kid is going to be a bit different, and parents should have options in how they're going to introduce young children to school and tools to address their childs individual needs, but the idea of not providing kids with an opportunity to learn core skills as they're able, to delay organized academics until kids are 7? I would oppose that here. I don't know what things are like in the UK or even what they were like under NCLB really but the current (common core I think?) system here, at least as it's implemented in my district is serving my young kids extremely well.

[JVS]

24. And pay for daycare?

[SamKnause]

27. My 2 cents, though no one asked

I have always thought children should start school at age 7 and graduate at age 20.

The final 2 years of school should be used to attain an associates degree, vocational training, or apprentice training.

Next step college for those who are interested and can afford it. I think higher education should be paid for with our tax dollars.

Child care costs is another very large problem in this country.

Low wages are another very large problem.

Increase wages so mothers who choose to stay home have that option.

[etherealtruth]

56. A very humanistic view of how things should be

Our corporate overlords will never agree to anything as beneficial to the masses as this would be

[vanlassie]

59. Agree. And I'm very glad to hear this since I expect to have

some little British accented grand kids in a few years from now. My daughter married a Brit and they live in London. Today is her 30th birthday and the date they chose to start working on my grandbabies! Yay!

[liberal_at_heart]

62. I agree with everything you said. Science says that young adults brains don't finish fully forming

until age 24 anyway. Why do we consider 18 yr olds adults and why don't we allow them more time to learn? I think college should be tuition free paid for with taxes, and we must have a living wage.

[Democracyinkind]

28. I beg to disagree.

We are not starting too early, we are stopping too late. There's no need for 15 years of school. I know this is a minority opinion... Seems to me that we are asking kids to stay kids for too long rather than asking them to grow up too fast.

[Mariana]

30. I agree.

Students should have the option to test out of classes, and out of school altogether, if they know the material.

When my daughter was in high school in Texas a few years ago, students could test for credit. It worked like this: If a student had taken the class and failed, they had to score 70 to pass. If a student had learned it on their own, they had to score 90. How unfair is that? Independent study should be encouraged, not penalized.

[TeamPooka]

39. I would reverse those score requirements nt

[kiva]

34. 15 years?

I'm thinking 12, or 13 if you consider kindergarten (not sure if it's mandatory).

[LWolf]

31. Yes. And NO.

The key words being "the current system," which is dominated by corporate policies that are not educationally sound.

Developmentally, large classrooms with a lot of sitting and listening are not at all appropriate for young children.

What IS appropriate:

Learning through play. Developing fine motor skills with clay and crayons and paints, etc..

Abundant time reading with an adult, one-on-one and small group. Learning group behaviors like listening, taking turns...

Singing, rhymes, poems, etc..

LANGUAGE development: Actual conversations with adults.

Creating their own stories with puppets, toys, etc..

Learning one-to-one correspondence with concrete things...like the things they are playing with.

Building and making things.

Dancing, tumbling, etc...

Learning how to interact with other children in small, safe, environments with supportive adults.

All of that can be done by parents, and some do all or most. Not all parents do these things. Some children come to kindergarten without ever having read a book, without ever having held a crayon, without most of the developmental activities listed above that get them ready for academic learning. And, in the world of high-stakes testing, academics are there in kindergarten.

Not that children can't learn important academic skills in kindergarten; it's just that the rest must come first, and academics must be presented in developmentally appropriate ways.

It's not that children need to stay out of school until they are older. That's a dangerous thing to do, since most of the neural connections that they will need for academic learning are formed by age 4. They just need a system that supports the way they learn.

In the smaller picture, allow pre-school and kindergarten to be developmentally appropriate, and get as many kids there as possible. In the larger picture, dump the damned corporate model with the privatization agenda, and allow the rest of the system to be structured in healthier, more productive, more positive ways.

[liberal_at_heart]

45. "Dump the corporate model." exactly.

[woo me with science]

58. Great post.

Thank you.

[LWolf]

60. You're welcome.

[Tikki]

32. I agree....and socialize younger.

Tikki

[liberal_at_heart]

44. you got it. They need the socialization that preschool and kindergarten bring, but as far as

learning reading, math, and writing many of them would benefit from postponing that a while.

[avebury]

33. Introducing children to all the electronic media/TV

at a younger and younger age also robs them of their abilty to just play. Kids today don't play outside the way we did when we were growing up. They don't use their imaginations in play the way we used to either. I remember watching an episode of Oprah a few years ago where 2 families agreed to live a simpler more frugal life for a month. One of the families had a young boy who just walked around the house crying because he had absolutely no idea what to do. Until the challenge, he had spent ALL of his time playing video games. Taking away the video games was just like making a junkie quit drugs cold turkey or an alcoholic giving up booze. The parents had no idea what they had done to their child until they watched his reaction to the instant removal of his electronic babysitter. It was really sad to watch and you had to blame the parents for what happened.

[TBF]

37. You're not buying the right games :)

Granted I am an older parent and push my children outside quite a bit (and they see me walking the dogs etc - I'm not laying around watching tv) ... but I have also witnessed my daughter designing elaborate structures on Minecraft etc. So be sure you are buying games that they enjoy but also allow them to use their creativity.

[avebury]

43. I only have 4-legged babies.

I observe what happens in the homes of my friends who do have kids. The "right" type of games my encourage a child's creativity but electronic media should not be a substitute for children spending time together outside of school and organized sports. Children who are not fortunate enough to live in neighborhoods with a lot of children in their age range don't seem to have the amount of outdoor playtime or play dates that children used to have.

When I was growing up my parents chose to buy a house in a neighborhood with a high population of children. All over the place kids would be playing outside or at each other's houses. There was an island right off the coast that had a causeway that you could cross to get to the island. As soon as we were old enough we rode our bikes over to the island and played all over the place. A lot of the kids would fish off the causeway with a competition as to who would catch the most fish over the summer. You grew up learning how to play well with others and not to be overly reliant upon electronic devices.

I think that with all of the electronic devices that exist today that there is a growing number of people that tend to be more isolated because they socialize via their computer/cellphone/whatever instead of face to face communication.

[TBF]

47. I dunno ...

You're talking about a number of issues.

1. Where to live -- many folks aren't in good enough economic shape to pick the kind of neighborhood that used to be a given for many. That said, I lived in the country growing up and didn't have kids around either except for my brother. My kids are much more social in our suburban neighborhood than I ever was (or will be).

2. Electronic games -- you may be viewing them but you have no idea how they are using it. They are creative, they interact with others in games etc ...

3. Getting along with others -- I don't see how games stop that. My daughter and son had friends over after school today. The girls were just chatting and playing guitar (they are older), they boys were playing Wii together. On weekends they ride bike plenty and also have sports leagues. Both of my kids are scouts - they have community service, camping, and assorted other activities.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with your first post but upon further reflection I think you're just bitching about something you know absolutely nothing about.

[avebury]

50. We were actually talking about this at work.

Even the women I work with who are mothers clearly indicated that they were very careful about how much time they allowed their children to spend on electronic toys/games. One of the ladies was talking about her friend who bragged that Dora (the Explorer) was her son's babysitter. Apparently the kid sits in front of the TV all day long, totally zoned out, and gets aggressive if you turn the TV off. The friend in pregnant with baby no. 2 and has an out of control 4 year old. He is already hitting his mother and yelling at the both parents. My comment, it will be interesting once the second baby arrives.

The co-worker was telling us that her family operates under the principle of it takes a village to raise a child and when they get together, if the notice a child getting out of control, whoever is the closest to the child will step in to correct the behavior. Well the friend and her son were over at one day and she got pissed off when someone corrected the child, so much so that she left. My co-worker told her friend that she had better plan on being a stay at home mom because she is going to be spending a lot of time at school when her son is old enough to go to school. This is a kid who is prone to outbursts (verbal and physical) and has no clue how to interact with people, especially other children. He has a pretty good chance of becoming a pariah once school starts because other parent aren't going to want to invite him over for play dates or birthday parties and he won't be very popular with his schoolmates.

[TBF]

51. I was speaking in general terms -

not in regard to any particular family (obviously). And I would be very hesitant to simply blame video games when there is a child who obviously has issues. Could be lack of parenting skills, mental illness - anything really. My point is that *in general* I don't think video games, TV or the latest comic books for that matter are definitely at fault. It's a balance with so many variables. I do believe there are parents who will use a TV, games, or even the next door neighbor as a convenient baby-sitter when they should be doing a better job, but it's very hard to police that sort of thing. Most parents, I believe, do try their best given the economic situations they are dealing with.

[avebury]

54. It is important for parents to take the time to parent and

to pay attention to what is going on with their children. A few years ago Oprah had a show where two families agreed to simplify their lives for 30 days. This entailed turning off the electronics, no eating out or spending money outside of a budget based upon real necessities. One of the families had a young son who, once the electronics were turned off just walked around the house crying his heart out. The child had absolutely no idea what to do with himself because he spent all of his time playing video games. The parents were horrified by what they saw because they never realized the consequences of allowing the child unlimited video game time. It was pretty sad. Life has to be about balance.

[liberal_at_heart]

57. It's just a different time. That's all. I think all people have a difficult time accepting that

each generation is different than the one before it. So kids talk to each other using text messages now. So what? Most of them still participate in things they want to participate in. Most of the time my kids are indoors on their phones or video games. When they want to participate in something like wrestling or art lessons they do so. When they want to stretch(my kids do this a lot) they stretch or do yoga. When they want to go see their friends they go see their friends. If you let the kids lead the way they will show you what they are interested in and want to participate in.

[avebury]

63. It is kind of interesting listening to my friend talk

about dealing with kid's activities. Her older son was invited to be a part of a touch football team this year. Now he is just in 2nd Grade. He is fast on his feet which is how he got the invitation to join the team. This is also Oklahoma where football is king and people are not always rational. Mom is appalled at the 2 hour long practices 2-3 times a week and the focus on learning the "playbook" because they are 2nd graders. Her son is fast but not a really big kid physically. It sounds like he is not that enamored of football so it sounds like this is not a sport he will want to continue (he likes soccer, basketball and t-ball/baseball). I made the observation that, if that was the way they were treating 2nd grade football, it is only going to get worse as the kids get older. After all, this is Oklahoma. And the school he attends is known for having parents who will intentionally hold back boys in order for them to get bigger to have more of an advantage in sports.

It is well enough to let kids lead the way as they grow up but I work in an office that will hire a few kids a year right out of college. OMG! Some of them are clueless when it comes to lifeskills, being responsible, and some just do not have good social skills and don't always make a very good impression. During the first year they are in a training program and go through rotations to various divisions. We ask the kids, after they finish the training program to provide us with a written evaluation of their experience so that we can determine the effectiveness of the training program. I do the HR paperwork on new employees. On the first day of work of one young man, as is usual, I reminded him of the importance of keeping notes as he goes through the program so that he will be able to write his evaluation at the end of the year. Well he informed me that really would not work out for him. He would prefer to send each Division Head an email as he goes along thanking him/her for allowing him to spend time in his/her Division, mention what really worked, and what changes he would recommend to improve the Division. And this is his first day of work. It was all I could do not to laugh in his face. Has he been "slapped down" yet - Yup.

I feel like I actually have to parent some of these kids who, in fact, are now adults. Some of them will totally wear on you. I may not have personally had children but I do have to deal with the products of other peoples' parenting. It may be a different era but I have to tell you that when I graduated from college and entered the workforce I was a lot better prepared in terms of business etiquette, responsibility, and an understanding of how the world works. Maybe is was being raised in a family with a father who was a business executive so I observed a lot while I was growing up. I have had parents calling up looking for job information for their child. I have heard about parents showing up to job interviews with their child. Stuff like that does not make the child look good for a potential employer.

[liberal_at_heart]

48. I think video games can teach a lot. They teach kids how to strategize, plan, and they can also

teach them that you don't always win at something right away. You have to practice and get better over time. They can teach creativity and hand eye coordination.

[TBF]

49. It's really not my thing -

I spend time reading, writing, with my animals, playing with my kids, and occasionally watching sports.

But I watch my husband - he loves gaming (and he is a very successful professional the rest of the time - not in IT) . He plays games to relax and watching him play with the kids is really cute. He decides which games they can have and he often plays with them so he knows which ones are great for strategy, imagination etc ...

We certainly spend time doing many other things. My kids have sports, children's theater, scouts, sunday school. They really are well-rounded I think. That is my goal anyway.

[TBF]

36. I'd like to see year-round school

I don't think it matters when it starts - 5 or 6.

I can tell you when I was in kindergarten 40+ years ago it was much more comparable to today's daycares - 1/2 day, coloring, singing, saying our ABC's. We didn't learn to read until first grade.

Stay home or pay for daycare another year ... and then go year-round for the remaining 12 (cut down on all those summer camp costs and add the arts back into schools).

In my district down here in TX we are unique - 3 high schools - one is college-prep, one traditional, one focused on trades (with internship component). I'd like to see that style all over.

[ananda]

40. Totally agree.

Kids need to play until age 7 or 8 before going to school.

[RebelOne]

41. I don't agree. I attended kindergarten at age 5 in Pennsylvania.

And then first grade at age 6 when my parents moved to Miami Beach. Then when we moved to Miami, I switched schools and I was skipped to the 3rd grade. The only problem I had was that the 3rd graders were writing in long hand and I was still printing. But I overcame it even though I was handicapped by being left-handed.

I believe that kids should start school when they reach age 6. It never hurt me and I survived.

[haele]

42. That's great when one parent can stay at home.

Problem is, most families have both parents working, or a single parent that requires some sort of support; either through supplemental daycare that allows the parent(s) to work, or by having the parent stay on the dole until the child is old enough to go to school.

The letter is correct that Pre-school and Kindergarten should be about play and learning to socialize, not dealing with formal educational metrics and tests.
Child Prodigies who can read and write by the age of three are not the norm, that's why they're "Prodigies". It's much better for a child to learn at his or her own pace, then go into formal education when they're ready, instead of forcing children to try to deal with concepts they aren't ready to understand just because the "Department of Education" believes it has to prove to the taxpayers that they're spending tax dollars "wisely" and they're serious about getting everyone's hyperactive little brats - err, children - to pass through the school system and all the scheduled "learning metrics" in a timely manner with the least cost to the taxpayer. They're opinion is also that if the child isn't ready for rush of the canned school system the taxpayers seem to always be voting to pay for (either through school board personnel or funding/bond issues), it would be better for the family to just keep the kid out of normal school until an opening in the "special ed" classes where all the troublesome kids are warehoused until they
make it through the required 12 grades.

It doesn't matter if it's here or in England.
People seem to see School and Education as businesses - when they aren't. They're services to help people develop to the fullest potential they are capable of, and that sort of thing cannot really be uniformly measured.

Haele

[avebury]

46. I totally agree with you regarding if a family is lucky

enough to have one parent able to stay home. I have seen people really stress out about the balance of work and family when they have to deal with children, childcare issues, school. etc. It is particularly tough when both parents have to work and they don't have any family to provide support/assistance when all of a sudden you end up with a sick child or the kids are out on vacation for a week. Unless one parent is a teacher in the same school system, the parents work schedule is not going to match the school/vacation schedule.

[TBF]

53. That is actually why I decided to stay home -

my husband got a raise before the 2nd child was born so I decided to take time off. It is a relief to be able to be more involved at the schools, not have to do laundry at midnight (when both parents are working that is what you end up doing some days), and just be around more in general when the kids need you. Whether it's taking them to activities, checking their homework, or simply teaching them how to ride their bike.

These days it is a luxury though. So many people feel that economically they just can't make that choice. For me it was sort of the opposite - I worried about how much of myself I was willing to lose in the process (I'm really not cut out to be a SAHM) but we are managing.

[avebury]

55. I hear you. I have a good friend who,

if they could afford it, would be happy to be a stay at home mom. Once you have 2 or more children and factor in the cost of daycare sometimes it isn't worth it to work if you end up putting all your paycheck into paying daycare. Couples with a good family support system have it easier then couples with no support system. It can be a really stressful juggling act. Companies can sometimes be pretty rigid about work schedules which may result in the loss of experienced women employees who might need an untraditional work schedule in order to balance work/home.