Sorry, President Putin, But Data Shows America Actually Is Exceptional

[bunnies]

Sorry, President Putin, But Data Shows America Actually Is Exceptional

(snip)

I’m not a nationalistic person. In fact I have an instinctive dislike of nationalism or basically any team mentality towards groups whose achievements one has not significantly contributed towards. Individualism and cosmopolitanism tend to describe how I see the world. So I certainly agree with Putin that most people should certainly see their nations as less exceptional than they currently do. So yes, there is far too much nationalism overall, and in this country for sure. Yet despite my dislike of nationalism and agreement with Putin that we should all keep our group pride in check, I can’t help but see America as objectively exceptional.

(snip)

So how would an economist decide how exceptional a country is? Revealed preference of individuals, of course. Look to where people actually choose to live when they have that choice. The problem with this is that people aren’t generally free to move wherever they want due to global immigration restrictions. Still, I think we can learn a lot about exceptionalism by looking at individual stated preferences, which doesn’t suffer from the weighting problem of creating an index using some aggregation of measured outcomes. This measure tells us what people really value and how much instead of what the index creator thinks people value and can measure.

The question then is: if people were free to move anywhere, where would they want to live? Gallup’s 2013 poll on this shows that more than anywhere else, people want to move to the U.S.



While people may (and should) argue all they want about whether income inequality is too high, economic freedom is too low, the healthcare and public school systems are too expensive and low productivity, and whatever else they do or don’t like about America, the fact remains that 138 million people want to move here. That’s more than triple the next most popular destination, the U.K. So whatever pundits think about America, it still looks pretty exceptional according to the individual preferences of people all over the world.

more: http://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2013/09/12/american-exceptionalism/

editing to clarify for those who cant tell. I did NOT write the article. I thought it was interesting and posted it for discussion. Anyone thinking this is some rah rah USA shit, is wrong.

editing again: I did not mean to argue for American Exceptionalism as a concept used by the RW. I took the word "exceptional" at its face value and was not aware of the line of thinking American Exceptionalism entailed. Yes, I feel stupid for not knowing the difference. But Im leaving this post to own it. Crow eaten.

[2naSalit]

1. Remember Mittens Rmoney?

He believes that too and he and his corporate benefactors are full of it... but do carry on.

[bunnies]

4. Believes what?

That more people want to move here than anywhere else? That IS the point of the piece you know. Cute smilie. You think you burned me. Cute.

[2naSalit]

19. Amazingly

to you, maybe, but I wasn't interested in the flame throwing you anticipate.

American exceptionalism is what you were promoting with some insufficient citation of what people think they are escaping to only to find out once they get here that they bought a pile of "American exceptionalism" propaganda. I think that anyone who buys that story line is lost in some TeeVeeLand fantasy and probably incapable of critical thinking when part of that activity requires a good, honest look in the mirror.

Just voicing my thoughts on your claim... because it made me laugh out loud at first, before I felt sorry for you.

American exceptionalism is a fantasy of the "our sh*t don't stink" crowd.

But do carry on, it's very revealing but probably not in the way you anticipate.

[bunnies]

24. Im not promoting shit.

I posted an article. Wasnt me who wrote it.

adding: and please do save your pity. You are the one who cant tell the difference between an OP and posting an article.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. How does that make America morally exceptional? It means it's desirable

as a place to live to some. I don't intend to stay here.

[bunnies]

6. Who said anything about "morally"?

Ok. Dont stay here.

[Orrex]

11. I didn't read the whole article, but does it claim American moral exceptionalism?

[Mass]

3. Talk about flawed reasoning.

AAmerica is exceptional because more people want to go here than in smaller countries? More people want to go there after they have been told that American is exceptional.

That is certainly a proof that America is exceptional :not:.

[bunnies]

12. Right. More people want to come here because we suck.

Those millions of people all believe what they were "told". None of them have access to the magic of the intertubes. That makes sense. :not:

[Mass]

14. Look exceptionalism and you will see that this is not what it means.

But you know that. Which is worse, the RW economist you link to forces me to defend Putin's article, something I do not want to do.

[bunnies]

21. I like Thom Hartmanns definition.

"The left-wing version of American exceptionalism is much different and diverse. It’s about making a better planet, improving living conditions for the poor, helping people achieve the American dream, innovation, preserving nature, being the first in technology, our national parks… "

[Mass]

25. Why should it be exceptional? Other countries have the same dreams?

[bunnies]

29. Then why cant other countries be exceptional?

[ocpagu]

56. If everyone is exceptional...

... then no one is exceptional...

And then we get to the conclusion that exceptionalism is bullshit.

[bunnies]

59. fair enough.

I cant argue that point.

[Ron Green]

5. Exceptional in the way High Fructose Corn Syrup is exceptional,

compared to broccoli.

[tkmorris]

7. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Yosemite?

[whatchamacallit]

23. It's amazing isn't it?

[bunnies]

36. Yeah.

Amazing that someone cant post an article for discussion on a discussion board without being jumped all over as if it were an original OP. Amazing indeed.

[tkmorris]

73. Oh relax. I wasn't jumping on you.

My subject line is a quote from the linked video. OTOH your OP was a wee bit jingoist don't you think?

[bunnies]

74. Sorry.

Didnt mean to get so defensive. I'll admit: I didnt understand the term "American Exceptionalism". I honestly just took the word exceptional at face value. Cali schooled me and I feel dumb. Now that I understand the term, yeah, just a wee bit.

[tkmorris]

75. Oh hey, it's alright

I admit I did assume that you knew what that term means, and intended the OP within that context. Now that I know differently I feel a little sheepish for the assumption. Please accept my apology for that. Take care bunnies!

[MADem]

108. I understood the point of the article and the issues you were trying to raise.

Amazing how the Pootie Cheerleaders got their boots on, and will stomp the living shit out of anyone who dares to refute the saintly views of the bear-riding chest-a-licious, balding spythug!

It's not you.

[bunnies]

111. Thanks, MADem.

Been a while since I took a hammering so I guess it was due. "bear-riding chest-a-licious" <----- pure awesome right there.

[Cleita]

8. American exceptionalism doesn't exist except in the

minds of right wingers. In most things we lag behind other industrial nations and even behind some third world nations. It seems that the only thing we excel at is having better war toys than most other nations and yet can't seem to win any wars since WWII.

[bunnies]

18. Thom Hartmann disagrees.

The left-wing version of American exceptionalism is much different and diverse. It’s about making a better planet, improving living conditions for the poor, helping people achieve the American dream, innovation, preserving nature, being the first in technology, our national parks… -

http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/ben-hoffman/blog/2010/12/american-exceptionalism-right-vs-left

[Cleita]

31. I know what Thom Hatmann said and he was trying to make a point that

the original concept came out of the American Revolution. However, the concept was taken up by right wingers along with city on the hill and other patriotic buzz phrases and twisted to fit their purposes. The Heritage Foundation website has many articles on it. Go there and look at them.

[bunnies]

34. Oh, geezus. Please dont make me go there.

Honestly Cleita, I just found the article and thought it was interesting. It made me think about the different ways people can perceive exceptionalism. Im not the USA! USA! type that people are accusing me of. Sometimes I forget why I dont post OPs much. *sigh*

[Cleita]

39. Hartmann just commented on it and he says

the big lesson Putin was putting out was that this doctrine led to Bush's axis of evil speech that pointed N. Korea and Iran and other countries to attempting to get nukes and other WMDs. So that's what Thom thinks.

[bunnies]

41. Well...

I think its sad that the RW has co-opted the concept. It seems theirs is the only surviving definition of the word. Funny how they have a way of making everything suck. Thanks for the update on Thom.

[liberal_at_heart]

9. If we are so exceptional then why are we behind other countries in health care, education, labor

unions, wages, scientific research, and many, many other things?

[bunnies]

13. Its ok.

You dont have to read the article.

[liberal_at_heart]

16. You're right I don't. I know the whole America is exceptional meme is an illusion.

I didn't hear too many people claiming America was exceptional when Bush was president. In fact many democrats mocked republicans for their nationalist, patriotic pride in America's exceptionalism. Now all of sudden because we have a democratic president, we're exceptional? Yeah, okay whatever.

[frylock]

54. "I thought it was interesting and posted it for discussion."

how about a little discussion rather than getting defensive?

[bunnies]

57. Sorry about that.

I didnt understand why people were jumping on me and I did get defensive about it. I took the word "exceptional" to mean "exceptional" not as a reference to American Exceptionalism. My bad, fry.

[frylock]

58. 'scool

peace!

[Comrade Grumpy]

10. Yes. We have an exceptionally high number of people incarcerated. Putin can't touch us.

We have an exceptional military budget.

We have an exceptional inclination to make war on other countries.

On the other hand, we have jazz, blues, and rock 'n' roll.

[disidoro01]

37. Don't forget

exceptionally obese. Although we lost our #1 ranking to Mexico...That pisses me off.

[Comrade Grumpy]

95. And Mexico says, "Gracias por nada, NAFTA."

[LittleBlue]

15. lol what a stupid article

Poor people want to move to richest superpower. Well duh. That doesn't mean we're exceptional in anything other than wealth. That wasn't what Putin was referencing.

Saudi Arabia beats Germany

[bunnies]

28. Yes. Im certain they were all poor.

Nice assumption.

[quinnox]

17. I think that I have to take a capitalist magazine like Forbes championing American exceptionalism

with a grain of salt.

[bunnies]

22. Unlike Putins propaganda piece?

[quinnox]

26. If I think about it honestly, I think I would take Putin over a silver spoon born

right wing goober like Steve Forbes.



Deleted picture because image may have been too disturbing. Steve Forbes can scare people who are unprepared.

[bunnies]

27. Gross. nt

[idwiyo]

20. I met some Brits who want to move to US. Oh boy, do I wish they moved!

Not single one of them actually understood that there is no NHS in US. They thought Medicare was the NHS and was available for all.
Every single one of them was moaning about taxes.
Every single one of them believes there shouldn't be any social services at all
Every damn single one of them think UK is a socialist country
Did I mention homophobia and racism? Don't think I need to, do I?

Please, please, TAKE THEM. They are all yours! We will be much better without trash like that.

[kenny blankenship]

30. But without your peers and toffs there'll be no more cousins for your Royals to marry

Whither Britain then?

[idwiyo]

33. There are cousins aplenty in rest of EU. They will be fine! :)

[Eddie Haskell]

32. If America is exceptional,

it is exceptional because our government was set up to represent the will of all its good citizens, not just the wealthy few. We, the people, cannot become complacent. It is our duty to insure that our government does not misrepresent our will. It is our duty to insure that great power is not exercised for the wrong purpose. It is our duty to insure that our government does not further the agenda of a few, at the expense of the majority. Some might shout, Support our Troops; but I can think of no greater tribute to those heroes who have served, than insuring that their cause remains just, and no greater support to those who will serve, than insuring that they will not be placed in harm’s way unnecessarily.

[bunnies]

35. Well said.

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. and that's not the only way that it is exceptional

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm

Entire world - Prison Population Rates per 100,000 of the national population

http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php?area=all&category=wb_poprate


1 United States of America 716
2 St. Kitts and Nevis 714
3 Seychelles 709
4 Virgin Islands (U.S.A.) 539
5 Cuba 510
6 Rwanda 492
7 Anguilla (United Kingdom) 487
8 Russian Federation 477
9 Belize 476
10 Virgin Islands (United Kingdom) c.460
11 Bahamas 444
12 Grenada 424
13 El Salvador 422
14 Bermuda (United Kingdom) 417
15 Azerbaijan 413
16 Dominica 404
16 Panama 404
18 Thailand 398
19 Antigua and Barbuda 395
20 Cayman Islands (United Kingdom) 382
21 Barbados 379
22 St. Vincent and the Grenadines 376
23 St. Maarten (Netherlands) 369
24 Belarus 335
25 Curaçao (Netherlands) 331
26 Lithuania 329
27 St. Lucia 317
28 Guam (USA) 316
29 Costa Rica 314
30 Puerto Rico (USA) 311
31 Maldives 307
32 Latvia 304
33 Greenland (Denmark) 301
34 Ukraine 298
35 Kazakhstan 295
35 Palau 295
37 South Africa 294
38 Mongolia 287
39 Iran 284
39 Swaziland 284
41 Uruguay 282
42 Trinidad and Tobago 281
43 Taiwan 280
44 Nauru 277
45 Bahrain 275
46 Brazil 274
47 Cape Verde (Cabo Verde) 267
47 Chile 267
47 French Guiana/Guyane (France) 267
50 Northern Mariana Islands (USA) 264
51 Guyana 260
52 Colombia 245
53 Estonia 242
54 American Samoa (USA) 240
54 Dominican Republic 240
56 Gibraltar (United Kingdom) 238
56 United Arab Emirates 238
58 Martinique (France) 233
59 Singapore 230
60 Aruba (Netherlands) 228
60 Samoa (formerly Western Samoa) c.228
62 Georgia 224
62 Turkmenistan 224
64 Israel 223
65 Morocco 220
66 Poland 218
67 Mexico 210
68 Montenegro 208
69 Botswana 205
70 Mauritius 202
70 Peru 202
72 Tunisia 199
73 Gabon 196
74 New Zealand 193
75 Macau (China) 191
75 Namibia 191
75 Suriname 191
78 Moldova (Republic of) 188
78 Slovakia 188
80 Hungary 186
81 Kyrgyzstan 181
82 Fiji 174
83 Turkey 173
84 Guernsey (United Kingdom) 170
85 Jersey (United Kingdom) 167
86 Armenia 164
86 Guadeloupe (France) 164
88 Jamaica 163
88 New Caledonia (France) 163
90 Saudi Arabia 162
91 Venezuela 161
92 Albania 158
93 Algeria 156
93 Romania 156
95 Czech Republic 155
96 French Polynesia (France) 153
97 Uzbekistan c.152
98 Bulgaria 151
98 Honduras 151
100 Tonga 150
101 Ecuador 149
101 United Kingdom: Scotland 149
103 Nicaragua 148
104 Argentina 147
104 Spain 147
104 United Kingdom: England & Wales 147
107 Malta 145
107 Vietnam 145
109 Serbia 142
110 Kuwait 137
111 Ethiopia 136
111 Portugal 136
113 Bhutan 135
114 Malaysia 132
115 Australia 130
115 Bolivia 130
115 Reunion (France) 130
115 Tajikistan 130
119 Zimbabwe 129
120 Hong Kong (China) 128
120 Sao Tome e Principe 128
122 Isle of Man (United Kingdom) 127
123 Zambia c.126
124 Brunei Darussalam 122
124 Luxembourg 122
124 Macedonia (former Yugoslav Republic of) 122
127 China 121
127 Kenya 121
127 Lesotho 121
130 Myanmar (formerly Burma) 120
130 Tuvalu 120
132 Cameroon 119
133 Lebanon 118
134 Paraguay 115
135 Canada 114
135 Kiribati 114
137 Greece 111
137 Philippines 111
139 Iraq 110
140 Cook Islands (New Zealand) 109
141 Belgium 108
141 Croatia 108
143 Cambodia 106
143 Cyprus (Republic of) 106
143 Italy 106
146 Guatemala 105
147 France 102
148 Mayotte (France) 101
149 Sri Lanka 100
150 Austria 98
151 Uganda 97
152 Angola 96
152 Haiti 96
152 United Kingdom: Northern Ireland 96
155 Equatorial Guinea c.95
155 Jordan 95
157 Republic of (South) Korea 93
158 Ireland, Republic of 92
159 Madagascar 87
160 Djibouti 83
161 Netherlands 82
161 Switzerland 82
163 Libya 81
164 Bosnia and Herzegovina: Federation 80
164 Egypt c.80
164 Micronesia, Federated States of 80
167 Germany 79
168 Tanzania 78
169 Bosnia and Herzegovina: Republika Srpska 77
170 Afghanistan 76
171 Benin 75
171 Vanuatu 75
173 Malawi 73
173 Monaco 73
175 Burundi 72
176 Norway 71
177 Laos 69
178 Denmark 68
178 Slovenia 68
180 Sweden 67
181 Kosovo/Kosova c.66
182 South Sudan c.65
183 Mozambique 64
183 Senegal 64
183 Togo 64
186 Oman 61
187 Qatar c.60
188 Indonesia 59
189 Finland 58
189 Guinea Bissau 58
189 Marshall Islands c.58
189 Syria 58
193 Gambia c.56
193 Sudan c.56
195 Yemen 55
196 Ghana 54
196 Japan 54
196 Solomon Islands 54
199 Nepal 48
199 Papua New Guinea 48
201 Liberia 46
202 Mauritania 45
203 Iceland 44
204 Bangladesh 42
204 Niger 42
204 Sierra Leone 42
207 Chad 41
208 Pakistan 39
209 Andorra 38
210 Mali 36
211 Cote d'Ivoire 34
212 Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) c.33
213 Nigeria 32
214 Congo (Brazzaville) c.31
215 India 30
216 Burkina Faso 28
217 Republic of Guinea c.25
217 Timor-Leste (formerly East Timor) 25
219 Liechtenstein 24
220 Faeroe Islands (Denmark) 21
221 Central African Republic 19
221 Comoros c.19

[KoKo]

42. What's going on in St. Kitts/Nevis and the Seychelles....

1 United States of America 716
2 St. Kitts and Nevis 714
3 Seychelles 709

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. and according to the figures in he OP Saudi Arabia is the 5th most desired country in the world for

permanent immigration -- some figures are confounding

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. and of course from Newsroom

[bunnies]

44. wow.

That was really something. Very powerful. Thanks for sharing it. Is that a tv show or something? Looks like a good one.

[Douglas Carpenter]

47. actually it is an HBO series. Unfortunately I don't get HBO - so I have only seen clips

but I have heard that it is really good

[bunnies]

48. Yeah. I dont even have tv.

I manage to find some stuff online though. I'll have to look for it. Thanks again.

[cali]

43. American Exceptionalism is a phrase that represents a specific theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Exceptionalism

[bunnies]

46. oooooh.

Well now I just feel stupid. How the hell could I have not known that?

[cali]

50. you shouldn't feel stupid. It's an easy enough mistake to make.

[bunnies]

55. No wonder people were jumping on me.

I just took "exceptional" as "exceptional". Thanks for filling me in. Who knows what I might have said.

[Nye Bevan]

49. Very interesting poll.

And more or less what I would expect, with one exception. How the hell did Saudi Arabia come 5th?

[bunnies]

52. Over Australia!

Beats the crap out of me.

[grahamhgreen]

51. WAS

[FarCenter]

53. We're exceptional because of circumstances

In the late 1700s, the British colonial upper class broke away from the British Empire in order to better exploit their opportunities in North America.

In the early 1800s, the US acquired the prime slice of the North American continent from the British, French, Native Americans, and Mexicans.

In the lat 1800s, the northeastern establishment asserted control over the whole by defeating the south and the remaining Native Americans and set about exploiting the riches of the continent in the robber baron era.

In the early 1900s, the United States became the richest and most powerful country in the world by supplying arms and goods to the winning side in two world wars and by building up a war machine that could be used to decisively enter the final phase of each war.

In the late 1900s, the United States asserted military and economic hegemony over most of the globe to ensure access to other country's markets and resources, and to secure favorable returns on US foreign investments and trade.

But now many of the resources are gone and there is a growing backlash against the US as the "sole superpower".

[bunnies]

60. When you put it that way...

ugh. Its not much to be proud of.

[joeybee12]

61. No, you're wrong if you think your post isn't rah-rah shit...

You know what Putin meant and while he's scum, the fact that your knee-jerk reaction to what he wrote says more about you than him.

[bunnies]

67. Putin is the worst thing for human rights in Russia since the Soviet days...

And if you think for just a second that anyone should take any lecturing from a lying, oppressive, authoritarian piece of shit, youre wrong. Whatever that says about me, fine. Putin can rot in hell.

Furthermore, I've NEVER been a part of the America can do no wrong crowd. So your assertions about my intentions are way off the mark.

[florida08]

62. a moment for rebuttal

there were a lot of people who were brought here and I don't think they wanted to come. But I like your enthusiasm. Now if you want to rate how happy people are where they live the we rate 17th


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023640498

[bunnies]

64. Interesting.

The poll I posted doesnt take people living here into account. Perhaps people think living here will be better than it actually is.

[ocpagu]

63. People see TV series, Hollywood movies, videoclips, media distortions and a lot them buy it.

Judging from what we see on TV, everyone in the US lives in nice, large houses, with nice cars, in nice neighborhoods, CIA is a humanitarian agency always worried about saving the world from supervillains, the police is beacon of ethics and moral ground, politicians are honest, there's no corruption, there's no poverty, no crime, no homeless people...

On the other hand, the US media frequently makes use of reports on undeveloped countries to reinforce stereotypes that have the objective of spreading the perception that "you should be grateful for what you have and shut up about what TPTB are making in this country, see how the rest of the world is living way worse than you are".

Right after I arrived in the US where I studied for some months, a gentleman in Chicago took me to show a computer. He didn't want to offend me, he simply assumed I had never seen one before...

[bunnies]

71. Thanks for your input.

I'll defer to you on that as you would know better than I do about Americas impression abroad. I cant believe someone would assume you never saw a computer. Thats pretty telling right there.

[lumberjack_jeff]

79. This. We're exceptionally good at painting and distributing an image of exceptionality. n/t

[Enrique]

65. it's the standard argument for American Exceptionalism

made by the usual wealthy right-winger.

[bunnies]

69. As I have noted upthread...

I was not aware of the concept of "American Exceptionalism". I took the word "exceptional" at face value. Yes, yes, I feel like a total idiot. You can mock me if you want. I deserve it.

[JackRiddler]

66. U.S. Military Interventions Since 1945

Now that is fucking exceptional.

You should be so embarrassed to post such horseshit. It's not whether the article is true or untrue, it's the implicit argument: utter, obvious horseshit. An exceptional nation would produce thinkers good enough to see that immediately.

[bunnies]

70. Please read post #46.

Thanks.

[treestar]

68. K&R

Of all the forms of government, ours is imperfect but less so than others.

[William769]

72. Kick & recommended.

[bvar22]

76. Marking this thread so I can find it later...

...and see who recommends this self-aggrandizing, Narcissistic Bullshit.

The only comment I will make is that someone who reads Forbes
IS probably doing Exceptionally Well in today's America.
Meanwhile, the 99% Working Class sinks into the swamp.

[bunnies]

77. Actually...

I dont read forbes. I lost my job due to a disability and dont have insurance. Therefore I cannot get my joint replacement surgery and have had to apply for aid. This article came up during a google search I was doing. And maybe you ought to read the whole thread before spouting off about it. Might give you a bit of perspective.

[bvar22]

80. Are you also Irony Impaired?

Direct Quote from your post:
[font size=3]"I lost my job due to a disability and dont have insurance. Therefore I cannot get my joint replacement surgery and have had to apply for aid."[/font].

Do you realize that IF you lived in any one of 37 "civilized" countries with Cradle to Grave National Health CARE Plans, you would NOT have this problem?

How does that jive with you arguing for "American Exceptionalism"?

[bunnies]

82. I did not mean to argue for American Exceptionalism.

I was stupid and took the word exception at its face value. Cali linked me to the meaning and I admitted to feeling dumb. It was a mistake on my part, which I own. Its pretty embarrassing, actually.

edit: which is why I wanted you to read the thread. So I wouldnt have to admit that. Again.

[totodeinhere]

83. If this country were so exceptional then you would have health care

and you could get your surgery. Your situation is a good example of why we are not exceptional. (By the way, I wish you well and hope that your health care needs can be taken care of.)

And citing how many people want to move to a particular country is nothing more than anecdotal. To determine which countries really are exceptional we need to look at statistics such as infant mortality rates, life expectancy, murder rates, incarcerations rates, the gap between rich and poor, treatment of undocumented immigrants, etc. And in every one of those measures we are deficient. No this country is not exceptional. Far from it.

Edit - I had not read your explanation for your mistake when I typed this. I'm usually in a hurry and don't have time to read every comment in a thread. I scan the titles and pick out which comments I want to read.

[bunnies]

84. Thank you for the well wishes.

I only posted this because I thought it was interesting. I didnt mean to push "American Exceptionalism" at all. Im embarrassed to say that I wasnt even aware of the concept until Cali schooled me on it. Wish Id never posted it, honestly.

[totodeinhere]

86. Don't be embarrassed. I can't even remember the number

of times that I've stuck my foot in it on this forum. And people will respect you for your candor.

[bunnies]

90. Thank you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

78. When Rush Limbaugh calls me overweight, my immediate reaction is to shout "hypocrisy".

... but that shouting does nothing to reduce my weight.

The fact that Putin is a hypocrite does not make him wrong.

[L0oniX]

81. Because ego, pride and hollywood stars are exceptional. n/t

[Rex]

85. Everyone hates us and yet everyone wants to move here.

Funny that!

[bvar22]

88. "everyone wants to move here" ?

Where did you get THAT idea? from Sean Hannity?

I know plenty of near retirement Americans trying to Get OUT and immigrate to a Civilized Nation,
and know plenty more (mostly Canadians) who feel sorry for me having to live here who would LAUGH at the idea of moving to the USA.

I'll bet SidDithers doesn't have ANY plans to immigrate here and give up HIS Single Payer Health Care.

[Rex]

89. Good point. Everyone wants to move to Canada.

They have great medical care!

[bunnies]

91. :)

You still get no forks.

[Rex]

106. DAM.

Not even a plastic spork? I PROMISE not to stick this one in the light socket...like the last one!

[Prophet 451]

93. That just means you have good PR n/t

[2ndAmForComputers]

87. I like it when an article's title shows me I don't have to waste time with it.

I wish all blowhards were as thoughtful of readers' time as this one.

[bunnies]

92. Are you calling me a blowhard?

Ive eaten my crow. No need to rub my nose in it.

[2ndAmForComputers]

96. A moderate amount of reading comprehension would be enough...

...to understand it was directed at the article's author. You know, the person who wrote the obnoxious title.

[bunnies]

98. Being rude is fun, eh?

Alrighty then.

[2ndAmForComputers]

99. Only when the other person's skin is comically thin.

[bunnies]

100. Booya!

Another zinger! You sure showed me!

[LanternWaste]

110. I imagine we all of us rationalize our rudeness and incivility to others from time to tim

I imagine we all of us rationalize our rudeness and incivility to others from time to time to better feel that we are more than we really are.

The myriads ways of doing so are rather illustrative...

[Prophet 451]

94. The only exceptional thing about the US is it's PR

People want to move to the US because they have an image of the US created by your media (which gets dumped on the world markets at below cost of production). The US presented by your media is pretty nice but we both know it bears little resemblance to reality.

US media is also strangely narcissistic. I don't know if you're aware of this but your media trumpets that the "USA is the greatest country on earth" pretty much 24/7 and you'd be surprised at how susceptible to repetition the human mind is.

Don't get me wrong. The US has a lot it can rightfully be proud of. Your Bill of Rights is great (although the 2nd could be clearer and most civilised nations now have the same rights enshrined in their laws). You have a society that's a genuine melting pot of different cultures and ethnicities and you've made that diversity a strength in a way that's admirable (and that the right hates). You have a society which encourages innovation and risk-taking.

But you also have some real problems. You still have a race problem. You lock up more people than any country on earth and often on bullshit charges. Your political system essentially runs on legal bribery. One of your political parties is nothing more than the political arm of Big Money. ALL of your national media is slanted right except MSNBC which is centreist and it's all owned by six mega-corporations. Your safety net for the poor and unfortunate barely exists and if you're especially unlucky, you just get left to starve. And, while you have great doctors, your method of delivering care is the worst in the developed world.

Now, one could easily write a list of things good and bad about my own UK as well. Believe me, I know. I've done so, many times. But that's my point. The US isn't exceptional. It has some great things to be proud of and some bad things to be ashamed of, same as every other country.

And incidentally, this idea that America is the greatest, free-est, most exceptional country on earth? It's a big part of why so many people hate America.

[KamaAina]

97. Actually, that data shows that people believe that America is exceptional

that is, they've bought into the myth of American exceptionalism that we've spread for so long. At one time, it was actually true. Even into my childhood. Now the rankings in things like educational achievement, infant mortality, and so on generally have us somehwere down around Portugal, Greece, and Slovenia.

[Daniel537]

101. If its such a myth

Why aren't all the immigrants we take in every year moving back to their home countries?

[KamaAina]

103. Some of them are

particularly Irish immigrants.

We're still well ahead of countries like Mexico, India, El Salvador, etc.

[mike_c]

102. are folks being disingenuous about "American exceptionalism" or do they really not understand...

...that the term has nothing to do with being "exceptional," but rather means "excepted from the rules that apply to every one else?" It means that bombing children isn't a war crime when we do it, but it is when anyone else does. It means starting wars of aggression is our birthright, but it's a crime against humanity when anyone else attacks without the justification of self defense. It means that Americans can suck up a disproportionate amount of the world's resources and spew an equally disproportionate amount of waste and pollution, but that people in other countries should live in squalor because the planet can't support everyone in first world life styles.

That is American exceptionalism.

[bunnies]

105. As I said in my 2nd edit...

I honestly did not know. I would not have admitted as such in the OP if it werent true. You obviously can chose to believe me or not, but if you read the whole thread I think you'll see Im telling the truth. Ive admitted to feeling stupid many times. And believe me, its not something I enjoy.

[mike_c]

107. OK, granted....

I didn't read past the initial rah-rah of the excerpted article. THAT author is certainly being disingenuous, or else is an idiot.

[Vashta Nerada]

104. Who in the hell would want to live here?

Our country is a sinking ship.