I'm with Rep. Pelosi on this one

[Motown_Johnny]

She pointed out Putin's hypocrisy when it comes to people seeing themselves as exceptional. If he practiced what he preached he would not think of heterosexuals as exceptional and would not be subjecting homosexuals to persecution.

Everyone here who suddenly sees Putin as some kind of hero needs to take a second look.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

1. You're just an authoritarian USA! USA! BOGperson. What do you know?

[Cha]

61. You cracked me up with

"BOGperson".. it's so funny. rofl lolololol

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Forget the messenger on this one - the content of his article is true.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. And you have proof Assad didn't gas his people as Putin asserts?

[Cooley Hurd]

5. You have proof he did?

The UN has not concluded their investigation.

That said, everything else, ESPECIALLY regarding "American Exceptionalism" is 100% true. It's that mindset that has led us to this fucked up period in our history.

[PowerToThePeople]

10. All that matters is:

Ya, beat that with a stick, will ya?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

12. Hahaha!

[awoke_in_2003]

38. I just spewed English Breakfast tea. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

7. you're not allowed to do that around here. Just like you're not allowed to be pro-marijuana

legalization or against military action because *gasp* Ron and Rand Paul believe in those things.

[MADem]

59. The message came from the same propagandists at Ketchum PR that astroturfed for the Bush

Administration.

Putin is an asshole and a thug. Oh, and a lying bullshitter, too.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. And another thing!

Oh wait - nothing to add.

[PennsylvaniaMatt]

4. Exactly!

People are so quick to resonate with anyone who disparages the notion of "American Exceptionalism" being that is something that is touted by the right wing, they will even side with a man who is actively working to criminalize homosexuality.

[polichick]

6. Nobody here sees Putin "as some kind of hero." Get a grip.

[FiveGoodMen]

23. Amen! (and WTF to the OP)

[Mojorabbit]

58. +100 nt

[MNBrewer]

8. The issues are separate

Both important and completely separate. If PBO wants to write a "so's-your-old-man" response, fine, but confine it to Syria.

Frankly, politicians who have only recently evolved to the stage where they agree that equality is the moral choice, but that the choice should be left up to the states for state-by-state decisions don't have ALL that much credibility on this topic.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Putin is a homophobe like others who discriminate under the law against gay people

But that includes the 29 US States in which it is legal to discriminate against LGBT people as well. That's the bulk of the US, most of Nancy's House peers Represent such States. There is no Federal Law to protect people in those states. So you know....about preaching and practicing....and about not persecuting....and hypocrisy....
The US could have more of a leg to stand on than it does. Sadly.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. Thank you for creating much-needed moral equivalence between US and Russia on GLBT

That was really helpful.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. If the facts are unacceptable to you you have huge issues.

29 States, no Federal protections. Legal discrimination.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

25. Which is exactly the same as Russia's sanctioning to criminalize homosexuals

And creating/encouraging an environment of hate for LGBT.

No one is saying there is not still work to. E done here in the US.but Putin's hypocrisy cannot be countered with, "yeah but..we're not perfect".

[Bluenorthwest]

33. No one said it was the same and you have no right of any kind to put words in my

mouth. No such right. Unacceptable.

[MADem]

62. Bulk of the US?? Who lives in those intolerant states?

It seems to me that the most intolerant states have the fewest people in them....i.e. the people who are most "dense" on this issue tend to live in states with a lower population density. It's not always the case (a few nitwit ones, like PA and FL), but it happens more often than not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_status_in_the_United_States_by_state

[noiretextatique]

13. putin had a point, but that doesn't make him a hero

so there is no need for a slew of BOG posts saying he isn't a hero. American exceptionalism got us embroiled in a lot of atrocities around the world, and that's just the plain, ugly truth. and putin has his own issues, as Pelosi mention. DU is reminding me more and more of junior high school playground.

[winter is coming]

17. It reminds me of a Gilbert & Sullivan opera, HMS Pinafore.

One of the minor characters is a sailor named Dick Dead-Eye. No matter what he says, people dismiss it and criticize him, but when one of the other characters says the exact same thing, everyone nods approvingly.

I don't like Putin, but that doesn't make him wrong about everything. In the same way, liking Obama doesn't make him right about everything.

[noiretextatique]

18. wow

a sensible person on DU

[winter is coming]

47. But I like opera, so I'm just a damned weirdo. :-) n/t

[pinboy3niner]

53. You aria gentleman and a scholar :) nt

[Hydra]

26. The BOG does have to

The President said it, so it's sacrosanct unless they disagree with it(Like his feet the the fire quote).

Message control, message control!

[noiretextatique]

28. thanks

do you have any idea why they are so desperate?

[Hydra]

39. I have a guess

I pay attention to the BOG because they may as well be the backdoor propaganda catapults of the White House. Any memes I see them throw I see in the MSM and in WH press releases a few days later.

This whole Syria debacle cost a lot on the voting grounds. Literally nobody outside the Washington bubble bought it. I think the support level was something like 16%, which is probably just the people who would benefit directly or indirectly from the gravy train.

They realize they have no traction now. Before, they used various tricks to keep people on the bandwagon. The NSA scandal + the Syrian push to war looked too much like Bushco again, and lots of people are just *done* now.

That's not a good spot for the WH to be in. Since the President will not more to the Left, then they have to do what the Right does- browbeat and shame people back to their side.

We'll see if it works.

[bluestate10]

35. what point did Putin have other than saving face and Assad's ass? nt

[RC]

43. If more people would have paid attention to the message, instead of the messenger, this thread would

not have happened.

What is important is that we are not bombing Syria at the moment. And hopefully not ever. We need to back off from the 'All War, All the Time' mentality. Our actions in the Middle East so far have guaranteed the fighting will continue far into the future.
How are the "rebels" our CIA are supplying any better and Assad?

[leftstreet]

14. My, my. Putin's sure getting a lot of attention n/t

[A Simple Game]

36. The Message? Not so much. n/t

[winter is coming]

15. I'm sure all zero of those people will do that. n/t

[Savannahmann]

16. You say that as if you're not with Rep. Pelosi on all of them.

Is that the case? You pick and choose which things you support Rep. Pelosi on? In favor of her on one issue, against her position on another issue? For her on ACA, against her on NSA?

Because if you are with someone for an issue, then you focus on that one issue. If you are with them period, then you are a sycophant who should be ignored with good reason. You sound like you are with her on this issue, but not all of them. Is that the case?

[Motown_Johnny]

49. Yes, I make up my own mind. Sometimes I agree with her

and sometimes I don't.

Truth is she pretty much lost me when she promised to never even consider impeaching W no matter what.

[LittleBlue]

19. Nancy pro-war, pro-NSA spying Pelosi?

She's a joke. You would need someone more credible to make these points because most are laughing too hard to hear her.

[bluestate10]

32. Pelosi is one of the most brlliant Speakers ever of the US House. She is by no measure,

even a far out measure, a joke.

[totodeinhere]

41. She wasn't brilliant enough to keep her speaker's job and now we are seeing the

consequences of that as right wing extremists who now control the House continue to do immeasurable damage to this country.

[OnyxCollie]

20. Pelosi thought Bush et al. were exceptional. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Wait, exactly who is looking at him as a hero?

His editorial was a remarkable piece of writing for it's role in diplomatic history.

Now you claim that understanding that, getting that, is seeing him as a hero? Really? Logic fail, with a good heap of strawman

[zeemike]

34. It is a very common theme that is played out here all the time.

The false dichotomy...if you agree with him on one thing you agree with it all and think is a hero.
I could not count the number of times I have heard this...with right wingers it is all the time, but some here use it too.

And it is used to intimidate when they gang up on you and force you to shut up, creating the sense that they are right.

Thank god that most here see right through it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Well some of us are just now plain out ignoring them

which drives them plain out nuts.

And the tactic is a classic, for god sakes I heard Tweedy refer to this as agiprop. I had a flashback to the 1950s with that phrase.

[zeemike]

44. agiprop...I had to look that up.

And thanks for that little education...it was interisting...

"Russian agitprop theater was noted for its cardboard characters of perfect virtue and complete evil, and its coarse ridicule.[3]"

That is exactly what it is.

[frylock]

24. the only people hailing putin as a hero are people making false claims..

that posters here are calling Putin a hero.

[Dawson Leery]

27. k/r

[Isoldeblue]

29. Putin is a putz and

always will be. He may have said some good things to save his boney ass, from us. But to consider for a moment that he is some sort of a hero is beyond asinine. Anyone who thinks that is a very shallow thinker.

Pelosi has more integrity than Putin could ever dream to have.

[Autumn]

30. Putin is not some kind of hero. He's just another president of another country

[Hydra]

40. Heroes/villians

Gods, nth dimensional chess masters...

We're devolving into a comic book framing. And this is being done by the "Adults" in the room.

[RC]

46. +1000

Does anyone even remember Putin's message? - Thought not. Too busy denigrating the messenger to bother with what is important - his message.
How is DU still a Democratic web site when so many of it's posters seem to be coming from the black/white thinking Conservative Right? So many here seem to need an enemy to function. Whether it is Putin, someone in the Middle East not praising us for bombing them, or even another DU'er.

[woo me with science]

51. + 1000

[Motown_Johnny]

56. I just asked for people to take a second look.

Nothing more.

[Hydra]

63. We're not even looking at Putin

We're looking at ourselves and how someone like Putin is right in calling us out.

Keep in mind that President Obama only recently evolved on the issue of LBGT equality- and it was religiously based discrimination to boot. Putin will have to evolve too. The pressure is on him, and while the issue is of deadly importance to the LBGTers tyrants can allow for it without it costing them much so they do when required.

[bluestate10]

31. 1000% agree. nt

[madville]

42. Deflection

The messenger being a hypocrite has no bearing on the accuracy or truthfulness of their message.

Two alcoholics at the bar, one turns to the other and says "you drink too much". Is that statement inaccurate even though the one drunk is being hypocritical?

[pinboy3niner]

45. There's a better response to Putin's op-ed here:

Posted in GD by Sand Wind:

HRW dispatches : what Putin didn-t-tell american people
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023657858

[Cha]

48. thanks for the link, pinboy!

[pinboy3niner]

50. You're welcome, Cha

I thought it was a well-elucidated rebuttal, and really the best I've seen yet. It's much better than some of the purely partisan reactions we've seen.

[Cha]

54. Yes, it gets to the nitty gritty.. and who doesn't trust

Human Rights Watch!?

[pinboy3niner]

57. Having been on the ground in war before, I tend to trust those with experience on the ground

As long as they aren't running on an obvious bias, what they have to say is worth hearing.

[Cha]

52. Nancy's Tweet..

Nancy Pelosi ✔ @NancyPelosi

Hopefully, when Pres. #Putin says "we must not forget that God created us equal" he includes gays and lesbians in Russia.6:34 AM - 12 Sep 2013

2,018 Retweets 832 favorites Reply

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/09/12/keep-chatting-6/

Sarah Jones talks about the reality of Putin..

snip//

..Suddenly Putin is on board, and Putin credits himself as do the Republicans. The media isn’t far behind. All hail the mighty Putin, President of Democracy! Oh, wait. The Navalny verdict. http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/07/18/putin-declares-himself-dictator-with-the-navalny-verdict/

Oh well, this is the kind of guy Republicans, the media and even the far left can get behind. He’s a decider! He saved us all. He’s the good guy, not our own President.

Pssst: If you are so invested in hating Obama that you can’t bring yourself to even question your growing allegiance to a known dictator, you are probably not thinking very clearly.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/09/12/smart-leaders-victory-lap-mission-accomplished.html

[Motown_Johnny]

55. +1