Curious. Anyone care to defend Kissinger?

[JackRiddler]

Meaning, the part where Kerry met with the fugitive war criminal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023649956

Because I'm curious if there's an argument in favor, and if so, why not? Is this to be an ignored reality?

[Cleita]

1. Shit no!

From an American who was born and lived in Chile. I always wanted him in prison, but right now will settle for him taking an overdue dirt nap.

[Katashi_itto]

62. I think his accent is cool

I always sort of thought that he would have made a great dentist in "Marathon Man".

[madrchsod]

2. wellllll... looks like no one....

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Well

Here.

[RetroLounge]

5. Sadly this does not surprise me.

RL

[ProSense]

6. Kissinger has close ties to Putin and Russia

Where does the post "defend" Kissinger?

[JackRiddler]

8. The question is clarified in the OP.

"Meaning, the part where Kerry met with the fugitive war criminal."

Care to defend that?

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023649956

A far greater criminal than Assad, by several magnitudes.

Kerry met him in public on September 11th, no less. 40th anniversary of the Chile coup.

Kerry, no less - he of the question, how can you ask a man to be the last to die for a lie?

A question the young Kerry delivered while opposing the war that Kissinger had made his own, the war that Kissinger had extended by several years, dooming additional millions to violent death and loss.

[ProSense]

16. I know who Kissinger is.

As I said, Kissinger has close ties to Putin and Russia.

He has the confidence of Putin so there maybe some insight to be gained. Putin likes him, and the reality is that Putin is the other key player in reaching a diplomatic solution. I'm fairly certain that diplomacy means talking to people, good and bad ones.









http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023376656

[JackRiddler]

28. I hazard you'll shake any of their hands too...

Pictures no doubt can be produced of them shaking hands with Assad, but if he's bombed tomorrow, you're fine with that as well.

[NuclearDem]

44. It's funny, you flip shit when Rand Paul's name is even referenced.

But you jump straight to apologetics when Democrats are associating themselves with the Butcher of Santiago.

[ProSense]

49. Rand Paul: Assad ‘Deserves Death’ If He Was Behind Chemical Weapons Attack

Rand Paul: Assad ‘Deserves Death’ If He Was Behind Chemical Weapons Attack
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023642036

[NuclearDem]

51. That's what I thought.

[freshwest]

54. Gee, do we make peace with our friends or our enemies. Let me see here...

The reasoning that says we can't use Henry *Even a paranoid can have enemies* Kissinger would say we shouldn't talk to that other asshat Assad, either.

Just because it might save some lives, we can't do that! We'd be talking to the devil!

Only hang with people who think just like us and pretend the rest of these mofos don't exist, shall we?

The presidents of nations were not elected to be the Prince of Peace. They represent the belly of the beast. The one we are part of, if we are honest with ourselves. Each leader gets for his nation all he can get.

Obama's not the bad guy, neither is Putin the bad guy. They negotiate with the devil that lives inside all of us.

This song was the first thing that came to mind, about angels. There are no angels at the level we are spying on here since people don't vote them into office.

'She's gone to Heaven, so I got to be good, so I can see my baby when I leave this world.'

I wish the world was so simple. This planet can be heaven or hell, and most of it is somewhere in between.

What's the goal? Peace and lives saved, or being able to judge?

I remember what was done in South Africa, but others may not. Forgiveness was given that was *not* deserved.

Was it worth it or not?

Kissinger is known as a asshole, like millions of others, but he's our asshole, and we have to live with it.

Most of us here didn't vote for Nixon, we hated him and his pals. But a lot of Americans did.

If it saves lives, I'm not gonna be ashamed. I got nothing to be ashamed of other than all of us do.

[Octafish]

4. He's a wise man. Yeah. Like the time they carpet bombed Cambodia and forgot to tell Congress.

So, yeah. Other than the genocide, fascism, and money grubbing for Big Oil and Wall Street, he's a witty guy:

"90 percent of politicians give the other 10 percent a bad reputation" and "The illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a little longer" and, like Cleita knows, "The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves."

Ha ha. A real sweetheart.

[Fumesucker]

7. Ellsberg bad, Kissinger good

I'm back to feeling like the guy at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the way I spent most of the Dubya years.

[leveymg]

55. Nothing sucks worse than loyalty to imperfect causes. Very imperfect.

Some people around here would praise their leaders for putting a loaded gun to their heads and plead for the trigger to be pulled, if it advanced The Party.

[treestar]

65. Why does anyone have to be "good" to have their expertise consulted?

Why should we do without knowledge because someone has sinned?

What is "good?" Total agreement with Elizabeth Warren on all issues and plans?

[former9thward]

9. Well he got the Nobel Peace prize...

The same one Obama got. So there is that....

[bunnies]

14. And now Putin wants it.

Yay.

[treestar]

66. So maybe he's a grey figure?

Must have done some good at some point.

The problem with DU left is they are too easy to slap the label "war criminal" and expect the rest of the world to go along with it in lockstep.

[Bobbie Jo]

10. More failbait....

[JackRiddler]

11. Thanks for kicking this important thread.

[delrem]

12. That makes 2.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I would defend him as much as...

oh never mind.

On a serious note Kissinger is one of those people who is confusing as hell. He saw the effects of Fascism first hand in Germany where he helped setting up the post war government. You'd think, but no, he internalized fascism and real politik as the only way to do things.

[Recursion]

22. Are you saying fascism and realpolitik are the same thing?

That seems like an odd view to hold.

[DevonRex]

15. Those are 2 different questions altogether. nt

[dionysus]

17. other than knowing stuff about cold war era russia, he's a murderous scumbag.

no one here likes the fucking guy.

[Recursion]

21. Also about Syria. He was who pushed Nixon to establish relations with Assad Sr.

after the '73 war.

[dionysus]

23. yes, but the OP is lamebait. (mispelling intended)

[dionysus]

73. hmmm.. but i read here it's cause kerry wants to be evil like HK! i read it right here!

[HooptieWagon]

26. Yet he has a contingent of DU admirers...

You know them by their propaganda and blue links.

[HooptieWagon]

18. The Butcher of Santiago?

He has a group of DU admirers, who support a Neo-Con foreign policy.

[Recursion]

20. That's sad, lazy BS

Nobody here "admires" Kissinger; some of us are however adults and realize he can be useful right now.

[HooptieWagon]

24. Useful? How?

Lessons on establishing murderous military dictatorships by violent coups? He does have that experience...

He doesn't have ME creds, and contemporary Russia is a far different animal than 1970s Soviet Union.

Its a mystery to me how he can have so many DU admirers. You do realize he's wanted in several countries for war crimes?

[Recursion]

29. He was who got us to establish relations with Syria back in the 70's

What on earth do you mean "he doesn't have ME creds"?

[mike_c]

27. like Saddam Hussein was useful? Or Osama bin Laden? Or Mohammad Rezi Pahlavi?

Maybe as useful as Augusto Pinochet? Or Papa Doc? The list of murderous butchers we've found "useful" is quite impressive.

[Recursion]

35. And?

The list of murderous butchers we've found "useful" is quite impressive.

It is. It's the real world, full of very bad people we cannot wish away and have to find some way to deal with.

[mike_c]

39. well, I don't like to see Kerry dealing with that murderous scumbag in my name...

Piss on that.

[Recursion]

41. What the hell is a Secretary of State for if not dealing with murderous scumbags?

That's why the job exists. If every country were Sweden we wouldn't need the State Department.

[mike_c]

46. dealing with him = sending him to the Hague in chains, not making deals with him...

...and seeking his counsel. One can only presume that Kerry is going for a Hail Mary body count. Kissinger is the man to consult.

[NuclearDem]

40. Oh, well if we're looking for things to do with them

The Hague is nice this time of year.

[frylock]

58. some bad people we obliterate with missiles, others we consult with..

on obliterating bad people with missles. Thanks for the Real World Realist perspective.

[JackRiddler]

31. By that logic, Assad could be even more useful!

I say we offer him an aid package. He'll maintain stability in the Middle East!

[Recursion]

36. Well we did that for quite a while

And we'll probably be willing to do that again if Putin's trick works.

[frylock]

57. kinda like Hannibal Lecter?

[treestar]

68. I get the idea he did something wrong as far as Pinochet goes

But why does that mean we can't take advantage of his knowledge and experience? Are we to punish ourselves today for his sins on an issue in the early 1970s?

I don't know why Kerry chose to talk to him, but Kerry is not a moron, so probably he thought there was something he could learn.

That doesn't mean Kerry has to sign off on every act of Kissinger's.

Further, Kissinger may have some plusses in his column.

Further, 40 years have passed and he may have repented.

I'm getting sick of this demon/angel thing by the same people who claim we are Obama worshippers. Seems they are the ones all about the people rather than the issues.

[Recursion]

19. Hm. The diplomat who first got the US to establish relations with Syria?

I can't imagine any reason Kerry would want to talk with him.

[mike_c]

32. if one wants to be a vicious butcher, there is no better teacher alive than Kissinger....

No one knows that better than John Kerry, of course.

[Oilwellian]

43. You think he's a diplomat?

Jesus Fucking Christ. What has this place come to?

[Recursion]

48. Oh for God's sake. Have we redefined "diplomat" now too?

Sorry, I didn't realize we were supposed to pretend someone who occupied the highest diplomatic post in the country wasn't actually a "diplomat".

Sometimes DU thinks moral outrage outweighs factual reality, which is unfortunate.

[JackRiddler]

56. Yeh, it's all moral outrage.

A few million murdered here, a few million murdered there, it's not like we're talking about Americans!

[kenny blankenship]

25. A) C'mon! That was all a long time ago - and -

B) Most of the people he killed are dead now.

[leftstreet]

30. Not a defense, but he knows Putin pretty well

I believe he's met with Putin more times than any other US diplomat or politician

I've wondered if he's to be a liaison of sorts just because of that?

[JackRiddler]

34. Also true of Assad.

Just go straight to Assad, I tell you. He's less of a criminal than Kissinger, no?

Why doesn't Kerry meet with Assad?
www.democraticunderground.com/10023658243

[leftstreet]

38. True enough

LOL now THAT would make for some headlines!

Remember the gossip earlier this year that Putin kept Kerry waiting like 3 hours?
Maybe he just doesn't like him

[Oilwellian]

45. They and the wives can have dinner

again.

[Egalitarian Thug]

33. It's a class thing and the ring will be kissed. Remember that this is the guy that lost. n/t

[Glassunion]

37. Yes

Because he met with a (D). And as we all know, no (D) could ever do any wrong.

I should change my name to "Glassunion (PA-D)", I'd never be questioned again.

[NuclearDem]

42. ALL HAIL GLASSUNION (D)!

[Glassunion]

47. The microwaving of puppies starts in an hour!

This is for the security and safety of our nation.

- Glassunion (D)

[NuclearDem]

50. It shall be done, My Lord Glassunion (D)!

We've put enough with enough of their shitzu!

[Glassunion]

53. It does come with a (D)ownside

No matter what I (D)o, Fox News will have a field day with it.

[99th_Monkey]

52. I'll defend Kissinger's right to a fair trial

well hmm .. on second thought .. maybe one of those military
tribunals Henry is so fond of. ?

[grahamhgreen]

59. Well, he had a thing for the ladies....

A 1972 poll of Playboy bunnies selected Kissinger as the man with whom Hef’s ladies would most like to go out on a date. He also had a string of celebrity girlfriends in his younger days, including Diane Sawyer, Candice Bergen, Jill St. John, Shirley Maclaine, and Liv Ullman, who called Kissinger, “the most interesting man I have ever met.”

[cui bono]

60. Please stop.

[GeorgeGist]

61. Still does

[JackRiddler]

63. Should I start a preemptive Summers thread?

[treestar]

64. Does society in general agree he is a war criminal?

I mean, he has been arrested?

I have no problem with Kerry consulting with his expertise. Why should that be thrown out the window?

I'm not real familiar with what he's done to be deemed "war criminal." Does it have something to do with Vietnam? Working for Nixon? Didn't Nixon do some good in our getting along better with the Soviet Union?

You try to create these devils, like larry Summers (I have no idea what he's done) - why isn't this just reverse BOG, in they way you'd see the BOG?

[HooptieWagon]

69. Several countries have standing arrest warrants for war crimes.

Consulting with the Butcher of Santiago is equivilent to consulting with Nazis. He should be held in shackles, not high esteem.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

70. Yeah, but who has he killed lately? LEAVE HENRY ALOOONE!!!! nt

[Silent3]

67. Just think of it like one of those cops shows...

...where the police are having a hard time solving a series of murders, so they consult a famous serial killer for help in solving the case.

[JackRiddler]

71. Hm, except in this case the serial killer...

is not in a cell but at large, and responsible for many more open cases than the perp they're trying to catch.

[MurrayDelph]

72. Sure. I would be glad to defend him. At the Hague.

And I would be a horrible defense attorney.


(possibly even worse than Zimmerman's prosecuting attorneys).