Nobody's Dead - BUT PANIC ANYWAY!!!

[IdaBriggs]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/health/worst-measles-year/index.html

U.S. measles cases in 2013 may be most in 17 years

(CNN) -- This year is on track to be the worst for measles in more than a decade, according to new numbers released Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And people who refuse to vaccinate their children are behind the increasing number of outbreaks, health officials say.

There were 159 cases of measles in the United States from January 1 through August 24, according to the CDC. If that trend continues, there will be more cases in 2013 than in any year since 1996, when some 500 cases were reported. The number would also surpass that of 2011, when there were 222 cases.

(snip)

"This is very bad. This is horrible," said Dr. Buddy Creech, a pediatric infectious disease expert at Vanderbilt University who was on a telephone briefing with the CDC Thursday morning. "The complications of measles are not to be toyed with, and they're not altogether rare."

According to the CDC, one to three out of every 1,000 children in the United States who get measles will die from the disease, even with the best of care. Even if complications such as pneumonia and encephalitis aren't deadly, they can make children very sick; in 2011, nearly 40% of children under the age of 5 who got measles had to be treated in the hospital.

To recap: one to three of every THOUSAND will die, and we had 159 cases, and nobody died.

159 cases in a population of THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE.

What is the definition of "rare"?

Meanwhile, back in REAL PROBLEM WORLD - In Michigan in 2010

DEAD WHITE BABIES: 462 out of 84,597 live births (mortality rate: 5.5 ±0.5)
DEAD BLACK BABIES: 312 out of 22,046 live births (mortality rate: 14.2 ±1.6)
OTHER DEAD BABIES: 38 out of 7,425 live births (mortality rate: 5.1 ±1.6)

Grrr.



Stats courtesy of: http://www.mdch.state.mi.us/pha/osr/InDxMain/Tab2.asp

[heaven05]

1. thanks, Ida

Reality is something else altogether.

[SidDithers]

2. FFS...

What a dumbass post.

Sid

[IdaBriggs]

5. Not really -- a panicked article about a non-existent problem

and a guy who is screaming about a POTENTIAL catestrophy, while real catestrophies are happening daily?

The entire tone of the article is ridiculois: "the sky is falling! the sky is falling! measles was not eradicated from the planet, and on extremely RARE occasions, people still get it!"

[Barack_America]

7. Right. So why resurrect issues we have solutions for, like measles.

When we have so many other issues to tackle? The money we waste treating unvaccinated people with measles, quarantined in hospitals, could be much better spent on addressing infant mortality.

Is that your point?

[IdaBriggs]

10. Part of my point is that 159 people In the Whole Country are NOT draining the public purse

to the point where we need to hold breathless discussions on how to make sure those people are taken care of while the THOUSANDS OF BABIES / CHILDREN dealing with REAL crisis are watching the funding for their programs being cut on a daily basis.

You are right in one area - the solution for Measles is easily available. Parents discuss it with their pediatricians, and then make (hopefully educated) decisions about it. MOVE ON. There is a laundry list of *REAL* problems, and calling this one a "catastrophe" because a couple of hundred kids have parents who got sick - NOT DIED - GOT SICK ---

It minimizes the word. And it pisses me off. It's like calling every politician you disagree with "Hitler" --

And it rubbed me the wrong way. I take children's health concerns / infant mortality / morbidity issues extremely seriously.

This one just pushed the wrong buttons today.

Grrr....

[Johonny]

31. +1

[Barack_America]

3. Shit, there's a simple vaccine against poverty and infant mortality?

Where do I find this? Sign me up!

[IdaBriggs]

25. Did you notice how you automatically assumed infant mortality and morbidity issues

are confined to people who live in poverty?



To be fair, it does have a lot to do with it, but yes, there are things that do bring the numbers down, and those services have been significantly reduced due to budget issues.

In some cases, the actual "vaccine" turns out to be - wait for it! - MONEY!!!

But look! MEASLES! and PIT-BULLS! and ANTI-VACCINE PEOPLE! and Miley Cyrus is TWERKING!!!

[Barack_America]

30. Are you arguing the measles vaccine is not effective?

That people are vaccinated solely for profit?

Disease and poverty are intricately linked. You seem to arguing that preventable disease pales in comparison to infant mortality without recognizing the connections between the two. First of all, infants are most susceptible to the disease we get vaccinated for. When these diseases come back, they are hardest hit (i.e. pertussis). Second of all is the money we waste on treating diseases people don't have to get. While not a communicable disease, an OP was posted last night that LA county will spend $6 billion this year in treating diseases linked to obesity. Imagine how far that money could go in funding better pre-natal care and post-natal support services. The only reason we're not talking about that kind of money being wasted on treating diseases like polio, measles, etc. is the availability of vaccines.

[IdaBriggs]

36. I am arguing that 159 cases of measles is NOT a public pandemic.

I am stating that devoting resources to this issue is contributing to "useless information" overload.

a) From the actual FACTS of this article, if you don't vaccinate your child, so far this year you have a 159 chance in three hundred nine MILLION that your kid will get Measles. If you win that lottery, then you have a small chance your child could die, and yes, most people get the fact that certain health factors will increase that risk. <== Not a secret

b) If you smoke cigarettes, you have a (fill in the blank chance) that you will get cancer or end up with respiratory problems. If you don't smoke, you could still have those problems, but your odds are less. <== Not a secret

c) If you commit a crime, you have a chance to end up in jail. Assuming you get caught, your odds of jail time will vary depending on your race and income level. <== Not a secret

Get my point? Condescending and scolding at people ("bad anti-vaccine folk and their crazy religions!&quot doesn't change things; it is a big world, and people travel, so a disease that is eradicated in the United States isn't gone and I get that.

My objection is not to the information - yes, 159 children got measles, and fortunately even though they got sick, nobody died - but to the "it is the end of the world" HYPE that went with the article. I provided some statistics on one of my personal pet peeves (infant mortality issues) and yes, it torques me off that "anti-vaccine" crap gets more public attention than something I think is more important.

Then again, there isn't a lot of room for self-righteous condemnation around dead babies is there? ("Those stupid parents who let their children get sick because they don't understand SCIENCE! The NERVE!&quot

It offended me. I'm calming down.

[Sheldon Cooper]

4. What exactly is your point?

I don't follow.

[IdaBriggs]

9. That "rare" occurrences of problems treated with breathless prose

suggesting that THE WORLD IS ENDING are outrageously insulting and that the resources used to "scold" people for this "problem" (seriously, the folks who believe in vaccinations are going to keep vaccinating, and the ones who don't won't change their mind because of this nonsense) could be better used dealing with REAL ONES.

"If it bleeds, it leads" - for pity's sake, this is the absolute DEFINITION of a "rare" problem - 159 cases, most from other countries - and there is an actual discussion on how to get those TWO HUNDRED FAMILIES TO VACCINATE (or at least not visit other countries/have relatives who do). Meanwhile, we have increasing infant mortality and morbidity rates in nearly every single population center in this country directly impacting everyone from the families affected to the school systems to future employers.

BUT MEASLES - and ANTI-VACCINE PEOPLE - and throw a fricking pit bull in there, because there was no context for the numbers, or any write-up of why *MAYBE* just *MAYBE* we should devote a few more resources to the public health departments who are dealing with overwhelming numbers of issues that we *know* based on prior public policy success can be fixed pretty easily (and aren't being done now because of budget cuts, which aren't anywhere near as exciting as MEASLES)...

It pissed me off. Nobody died - but maybe they could. Meanwhile a whole bunch of babies HAVE DIED, have been dying for decades, and it isn't even worth talking about, because "it just happens."

It hit me wrong. To be fair, children's health issues / infant mortality issues are near and dear to me. There is limited bandwidth for crisis-du-jour. I want people to pay attention to the one I think is important - and measles aren't even registering on my meter at the moment.

But they got a write-up at CNN.

Sigh.

[Sheldon Cooper]

12. Oh. I forgot that you are the

one who uses capitalization and quotation marks seemingly at random. It makes your post hard to follow because I don't know what you're really trying to say, what will all the excess emphasis, punctuation, and etc. But, I suppose that's my problem, not yours.

Anyway, I think it's just fine for CNN to make a report on any uptick in communicable diseases for which there are vaccines, and I didn't consider it to be breathless or apocalyptic. But I agree that infant mortality really is a serious issue as well, so keep on with the education and outreach - every little bit helps.

[IdaBriggs]

20. I am sorry you have trouble reading my posts.

I forget you are one who has difficulty with them. Please note I am trying to do better in my specific reply to you.

As I have said before, I want context in these types of reports. When my daughter was four years old, she swallowed a penny at school that got stuck in her throat. Fortunately the doctor was able to remove it using a technique he had done many times on children with similar issues. As part of the pre-surgical protocol, he and his team began listing every single thing that could possibly go wrong, up to and including piercing her pericardium or puncturing her throat. After five minutes of this, with the list of possible dangers getting longer and longer, I was in a near panic; I asked him what the odds were of any of this happening to my daughter, and if he had ever had it happen in the hundreds of times he had done this before. He described the odds as slim, and no, it had never happened with him, but policy dictated the list of dangers. If I had not asked for the information to be put in context, I would probably have fled the hospital while clutching my child in terror.

We all have our buttons. Or in my daughter's case, a penny.

[Barack_America]

33. So this is somehow linked to your issues with informed consent?

I really can't follow where you are going or what you hope to accomplish with this thread.

The only consistent message I'm getting is a complete lack of trust in modern medicine. Fine, next time you get sick, go to a healer rather than a physician.

[IdaBriggs]

37. I was angry that a mountain is being made of a mole hill about measles.

159 children got sick. In breathless prose, a researcher explained this was "horrible" and the article explained it was because of anti-vaccine people (plus the fact people travel in places where it is a common childhood illness).

Meanwhile, back in real problems (instead of potential, and thus currently imaginary ones), we have solvable issues and children dying because of a lack of available funding. And I am selfish enough to want THOSE issues to get the limited attention of the fickle public.

But let's talk about the anti-vaccine crazy people, because convincing them to change their wicked ways ( ) is much more fun than dealing with solvable problems.

At this point "anti-vaccine" is right up there with "pit bull" and "twerking" - I am convinced that opinions on the topic(s) are unchangeable.

My post to Sheldon Cooper was about explaining that sometimes too much information is not helpful. The very nice (modern) physician removed the penny from my daughter's throat without any of the terrifying complications that could have happened.

We were also spared the building being hit by a meteorite during the procedure, zombie hordes did not attack, and no zoo animals joined in a rousing Disney chorus, either.

We get lucky that way sometimes.

[sufrommich]

13. Where is the breathless prose or suggestions

that the world will end. Ironic that you use hyperbole to complain about nonexistent hyperbole.

[IdaBriggs]

17. From the original post --

This year is on track to be the worst for measles in more than a decade -- If that trend continues, there will be more cases in 2013 than in any year since 1996 - "This is very bad. This is horrible," said Dr. Buddy Creech, a pediatric infectious disease expert at Vanderbilt University

I limited to four paragraphs, per DU standards. The rest of the article continued on the same vein, with at least one "sky is falling" comment per paragraph.

[GeorgeGist]

8. And fuck those who don't! Right?

[IdaBriggs]

11. I missed the troll.

Was it entertaining?

[Gormy Cuss]

14. Why are you trivializing this report?

For a disease that was considered eradicated in the U.S.,159 cases so far this year is big news.
Infectious diseases have a way of going from small problems to big ones rather quickly in the absence of remedies like vaccines. As the link demonstrates, young pediatricians may not even recognize measles when they see it because it is so rare. When there are outbreaks it's just good public health policy to raise awareness and hopefully nip it in the bud.

[REP]

15. Because children aren't getting sick enough to care about

Personally, I think this uptick caused by refusal to vaccinate is of tremendous concern, and should not be trivialized.

[SidDithers]

16. Apparently, preventable measles isn't bad if you don't die from it...nt

Sid

[IdaBriggs]

19. And this is part of my point. You actually believe that 159 getting sick - not dying -

getting sick "should not be trivialized."

When statistically, the numbers are (what is that word?) TRIVIAL.

Vaccination issues are like smoking at this point. You can tell people that something is in their best interests, but after a certain point, there is a "tune out" process. I would like to believe that educated parents make decisions taking in appropriate medical information on behalf of their children. After that, honest to freaking pete, spend the LIMITED resources elsewhere.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

23. No, you are wrong. The outbreaks were highly concentrated

And evidence of how quickly highly preventable diseases can spread when there is a critical mass of anti-science morons who refuse to vaccinate their children.

[REP]

26. The complications of measles are not trivial

Complications of Measles

Potential Complications

About 30% of measles cases develop one or more complications, including
Pneumonia, which is the complication that is most often the cause of death in young children.
Ear infections occur in about 1 in 10 measles cases and permanent loss of hearing can result.
Diarrhea is reported in about 8% of cases.
These complications are more common among children under 5 years of age and adults over 20 years old.
Even in previously healthy children, measles can be a serious illness requiring hospitalization. As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, and about 1 child in every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis. (This is an inflammation of the brain that can lead to convulsions, and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.) For every 1,000 children who get measles, 1 or 2 will die from it. Measles also can make a pregnant woman have a miscarriage, give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

With more and more people making the incredibly stupid choice not to vaccinate their children, they're putting their children and others - including pregnant women and their pregnancies - at risk. If you think this is trivial, well, you and I differ on preventable disease.

[IdaBriggs]

38. 159 childen in the ENTIRE country got sick. The *number* is trivial.

812 BABIES in Michigan alone DIED in a similar period.

Do you understand what I am saying?

[Celefin]

42. The problem with infectious diseases

is that their spread tends to follow an exponential curve, meaning it spreads faster every year.
This is why you should nip in the bud and it's the reason people in the medical profession are worried.

Of COURSE the infant mortality is a huge problem and shaming for a first world nation.
Still, a potentially fatal disease with a high number of possible nasty side effects should be prevented by a concerted effort - something that in the case of measles would be fairly cheap and highly cost-effective. Prevent while easy, cheap and yet without casualties.

I definitely see your point, but I don't think there's a profit motive behind the measles warning.

[REP]

43. Yes. You do not understand epidemiology.

You do understand that measles is a factor in infant mortality, yes? That maternal exposure can cause premature birth and low birth weight, both of which are significant cause of infant morbidity/mortality? You understand that as more idiots refuse to vaccinate, you will only see the infant morbidity/mortality rates rise?

[IdaBriggs]

18. Because young pediatricians don't know how to use Google?

This is a tempest in a teapot, in my opinion. And I believe making mountains out of molehills like this numbs the public to real problems.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/04/08/h7n9-bird-flu-update-21-infected-6-dead/

Three new cases of the new bird flu strain, H7N9, have been reported in China, bringing the total number of cases to 21, according to the World Health Organization. Six of those who were infected have died, but no new deaths have been reported since Friday.

Professionals discussing this type of situation as one to be aware of is one thing; pumping it into a public pandemic (seriously, the original article discusses cases from overseas) is ridiculous.

Now if a pit bull was involved, *then* I could see it being "big news" --

[Gormy Cuss]

21. Diagnosis is often the hardest part of a physician's job

and when patients are presenting with symptoms that are common in many diseases, the LAST disease to be considered is the one that has been declared eradicated in this country. That's why physicians, parents, and child care workers benefit from media reports of a resurgence. It's especially important for parents who avoid vaccines for themselves and their children to understand the risk of exposure when travelling abroad or when associating with like-minded people who have recently traveled to countries where measles is still a very real threat. Or, we could just let professionals share this information among themselves and ignore education of the public.

[polichick]

22. Whenever they panic about spreading diseases, look for two things:

Profits not up to par at pharmaceutical companies.

Accidental releases at biowarfare facilities.

Sometimes, it's about what it should be about.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

24. Huge UNREC to this post

Any outbreak of a highly contagious and preventable disease in our supposedly first world industrialized nation is big news and should be reported.

On a network focused on high speed chases and missing white girls, this one actually rates as news.

[REP]

28. Well, measles is more likely to cause brain damage, blindness and miscarriage rather than death ...

so why all the fuss? I mean, it's not like it can be prevented easily.

[SheilaT]

27. What stands out to me in that report is

" in 2011, nearly 40% of children under the age of 5 who got measles had to be treated in the hospital."

Why so many? I'm in the generation who all got measles in childhood, and I don't ever recall anyone needing to be hospitalized for them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Small children tend to have partial immunity to any disease their mother had

This wears off with age, but if you consider that the mothers of today's five-year-olds never had measles, you can see that the disease would be more virulent in them.

Smallpox, although potentially fatal, was not as deadly to Europeans as it was to Native Americans, where it was fatal in the majority of cases. The reason was that most Europeans were the children of smallpox survivors. Europeans typically got the disease in childhood, when they had some of the immunity from their mothers. Even those who didn't get smallpox until adulthood were the descendants of smallpox survivors, so there was something in their genetic make-up that gave them enough resistance to survive.

The first generation of Native Americans in the colonial period, in contrast, had NO ancestors who had survived smallpox, and the disease was an absolute disaster for them. It spread from tribe to tribe, hitting even tribes that had no contact with Europeans.

When I read about the controversy about whether to destroy the world's last remaining smallpox viruses, one of the CDC spokespersons noted that if smallpox escaped today, "everyone would be a Native American," because there have been no actual cases of smallpox since the 1970s in Africa and since long before that in the First World. Nobody has childhood immunity in the First World, and vaccinations were discontinued some 30 years ago.

This is a roundabout way of saying that if a disease skips a generation or two, it comes back with a vengeance.

Measles was bad enough for me in an era when everyone caught it. It was beyond all doubt the WORST childhood disease I experienced. It did damage my hearing, and it had the potential to damage the patient's eyes, which is why children with measles were kept in darkened rooms. A classmate of mine had a sister who died of measles encephalitis, and word was that if she had lived, she would have had some degree of disability.

Really, as others have said, a cluster of 159 cases in one local area is significant, even if it's a minuscule percentage of the entire population.

If I had had children, I would have had them vaccinated against measles, simply because I would not want to subject them to the disease.

[SheilaT]

40. Thank you for that information non partial immunity.

That makes enormous sense, given what I think I know about the topic.

I am one who strongly believes that the last remaining smallpox viruses should be destroyed. I did read once that in the last outbreak of smallpox in this country in 1948, there was evidence that even 50 year old vaccinations still conferred some immunity. I was last vaccinated around 1975 or so, which gives me a small degree of confidence about immunity, but I certainly don't want to put it to the test.

Which is actually why if there's ever a deadly disease that kills a lot of people I'm convinced it will be something totally unexpected, not what we've been looking at.

[Sheldon Cooper]

41. You are exactly right.

I had the measles as a kid (I'm 55 now) and because I had the actual disease and not the vaccination, both of my daughters got mild (and limited) immunity to measles from me. They both had the MMR shot, so if they should ever have children, their kids will not receive the natural immunity that they got from me.

[Jazzgirl]

32. 40% under 5 treated in the hospital?

Wow...I had the measles at 4 and all I did was stay in a fairly darkened room. I don't remember why though but I remember the itch was the worst. It seems like then everybody figured they'd get chicken pox, measles and the mumps. I had all three.

[ZombieHorde]

34. I understand your point, but I still find the outbreak disturbing

since we have the ability to prevent the spread of this disease.

[IdaBriggs]

39. I understand what you are saying.

It hit me wrong.