Chris Hayes: Is it too early to say Francis is the best pope ever?

[onehandle]

You know who I freakin’ love? This new pope. Pope Francis. You know who I’m talking about, right? The pope. Are you watching this guy? Because you should be. It’s early, but I’m thinking… best pope ever.

Now, I have a confession to make: like millions of other people in this country and around the world, I was raised Catholic, but stopped going to Mass—my freshman year at Brown, to be exact. And while I still have affection for the church of my childhood—the smell of incense, the saying of the Our Father, and all of the rituals—I haven’t felt very warmly about the institutional Catholic Church, to say the least, in the years since. But somehow, this guy, Pope Francis, is turning me around.

I liked him from the beginning, because he, like my father, was a Jesuit—a liberal order that promotes social justice. I love me some Jesuits. Right out of the gate, Francis offered up a few gestures to demonstrate a break from his predecessor Benedict. Rather than living in the grand papal apartment, Francis resides in the modest Vatican guest house.

The Vatican’s garbage collectors were the first employees he invited to morning masses. And instead of washing the feet of 12 priests during an Easter Week ritual, as tradition dictates, Francis washed the feet of 12 young inmates including two women and two Muslims.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/12/is-it-too-early-to-say-francis-is-the-best-pope-ever

Full text and video at link.

Pope Francis and his used car with 186,000 miles on it:



http://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-drive-own-popemobile-inside-vatican-city-131546885.html

[TeamPooka]

1. yes

[The Straight Story]

2. If we have people praising putin over one article we can surely do the same with the pope

Maybe he needs to drive around shirtless first in his car and look all manly (cause him wearing a robe and hat does not get him noticed, might be sexist to judge leaders on their looks, but that's fine too).

[Bluenorthwest]

9. The Pope and Putin have similar views on GLBT rights

They have both been political anti gay activists. But folks here just love Francis! His every move is reported in GD, the SOP of which says religion is not to be discussed in GD. But of course, as the priest said to the alter boy, rules are for others not for us.....

[The Straight Story]

12. Discussing religion is different than discussing people in power who are religious

We make fun of pat robertson in GD all the time as well. That is not about the religion side, we are not debating whether moses or jesus actually existed, it as about current political/world leaders who have some mode of impact on society.

[Motown_Johnny]

38. Has Putin said anything like this ....?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/29/pope_francis_on_gay_prists_who_am_i_to_judge.html

^snip^

Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday, saying he wouldn’t judge priests for their sexual orientation.... "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked.

His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.

Here's a longer version (and slightly different translation) of that quote, via NCR:

"When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency [to homosexuality] is not the problem … they’re our brothers.”








Admittedly, this is one statement and nothing more. Even so, it is a glimmer of hope. Putin, on the other hand, has decided that he gets to judge gay persons and use the law to persecute them.

[MNBrewer]

39. Yes, Putin has said as much

Putin has said that every gay Russian has the right to be gay, what is banned explicitly is being part of a lobby. Sounds very much like what Francis said as quoted above.

Note: NOT an endorsement of Putin or his government's persecution of homosexuals in Russia. I explicitly condemn it. And point out the ongoing practice of persecution of homosexuals by the RCC.

[Enrique]

17. conservatives are mad at the Pope for "siding with" Putin

some dumb interpretation of theirs over a letter the Pope wrote to Putin.

[blm]

3. Some of us have been saying so by the end of his first month.

And I am not even one who is a believer in any religion.

[hlthe2b]

4. He's a breath of fresh air, even if he has a long way to go to turn around the Vatican abuses

and the desperate need for change.

But, at least he is a big positive move from his predecessor.

[CTyankee]

32. some breath. he himself said the door on the discussion of women serving as priests was "closed."

No fresh air can get in when you've nailed the door and windows shut...

[hlthe2b]

34. I still hold out some hope.....

[peacefreak]

5. I'm warming to him

but I still don't have a clear picture of the place of women in the church. I am a 12 year veteran of Catholic school & left because I realized it was ok for women to clean the church but not serve. The best pope up until now was John 23. I'm waiting & hoping this one won't let me down.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. That's it for me and Chris.

Francis was a huge hate speaker in Argentina, said awful things about my people. It is interesting to see what others find admirable in a person. Interesting what they are able to excuse when they like the props and stage craft.

[MNBrewer]

40. I've noticed that Chris is basically a promoter of the power structure as it exists

I referred to him in another thread as an "Establishment mouthpiece".

[Demo_Chris]

7. Yes, he is covering child rapists and torturers, so fuck him. nt

[Katashi_itto]

36. So far all his moves have been in the right direction. I will give him the benefit of the doubt

for moving slow. I think he treads carefully because he knows he's at risk of having an accident. Look where he lives, outside the palace, look who he surrounds himself with... all fellow Jesuits.

You miss the fact that the Vatican is really little different from intrigues of an ancient Asiatic court. Very dangerous in it's own way.

Francis should move quietly and carefully.

Such as:
Pope Francis quietly removes Vatican envoy to the Dominican Republic after accusation of child prostitution surface

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/05/pope-francis-quietly-removes-vatican-envoy-to-the-dominican-republic-after-accusation-of-child-prostitutio-surface/

When he has his ducks lined up I think he will move on larger elements.

He just has to stay alive to get there.

[Demo_Chris]

41. Until then he remains just another accessory to some of the worst crimes in modern history

Child rape. Child torture. Not hundreds but tens of thousands of victims. Add to that slavery, genital mutilation and forced castration. Seriously, none of these ghouls deserves the benefit of the doubt. He is their leader and he belongs in prison.

[Katashi_itto]

44. Now your simply being foolish. Lots of them belong in prison, he's the leader of a "country"

by your logic, we should put Obama in prison for all the crimes the US has committed. Slavery, war crimes etc. Not saying the Church is clean, god knows as a lapsed Catholic I don't give them leeway, but seriously get some perspective.

[fadedrose]

8. I stopped being Catholic/Christian because of doctrine.

But if local churches are okay with his last statements - believing, etc., I could see going back to church once in a while, just for the feeling of being part of something on holidays (holy days).

I was Byzantine Catholic (under the Pope) and I loved the hymns and knew most of the mass by heart (and still do)...but couldn't say the words without feeling like a hypocrite, particularly the "Mary" ones, which are the most beautiful.

This man is needed right now. Religion is causing most of our problems (really, oil too) and his influence would be a major factor in attaining world peace if he sets his heart to it.

His humility makes him stronger than the MIC and their goods.

[SidDithers]

10. Best Pope ever...

Wow, there's high praise.

Sid

[MotherPetrie]

11. Get back to me when Francis' church stops valuing a zygote over a living woman.

Until then, I will continue to utterly despise Francis.

[CTyankee]

35. Chris has a little daughter. He should think a little more about her and how this pope is NO

friend of women's rights...

I am very disappointed in Chris.

[KittyWampus]

13. He sincerely seems to be concerned w/poverty BUT not allowing women birth control

ensures that poverty will continue.

You can't address poverty without giving women the choice of using birth control.

Okay, let the Catholic Church mandate birth control for married women. It'd be a start and a way to move forward in its backwards dogma.

[Vashta Nerada]

14. Is he covering up abuses in the Catholic Church?

Yes he is.

So no, he's not the best.

[Sheldon Cooper]

15. As Popes go, he may very well be the best. Whatever that means.

As a woman, I'm not impressed. If he can move the church toward true social justice, for EVERYONE, then more power to him.

[polichick]

16. Has he turned in the criminals who are still hiding out at the Vatican?

[oldhippie]

18. Maybe.

We'll see.

[QC]

19. He is a big improvement over Benedict when it comes to social justice,

and traditional Catholic social justice teaching is something that we at DU should find very much to our liking.

Sadly, on sexuality and gender, he's the same ole same ole.

Still, I am glad to see someone who will at least be right on social justice issues. That's better than Benedict.

Half a loaf, I guess.

[irisblue]

20. it's a crush Chris

and enjoy it, Francis appears to be the least repressive of popes. Wait awhile longer on the best-pope-ever.

[Nevernose]

31. And the award for

"Least Oppressive Religious Leader" goes to Pope Francis! Come on down, Frank, and collect your Billy Graham-my!

We're going to cut to a quick commercial break, but you folks at home stay tuned, because the awards for Best New Cult Leader and Best Religiously Motivated Terrorist Act (Hindu) are coming up!

[AllyCat]

21. While he has stances of which I definitely do not approve, he is such an improvement

over the last Pope that I like to see what he is going to do next to bring the church back to some of their original values...and watch those in the upper echelons who don't like what he is doing wriggle and squirm.

[msongs]

22. new PR campaign + same old core values = snow job in progress nt

[LuvNewcastle]

23. I think he's really good at politics. He makes a great show of

being a 'regular guy,' at least as much as you can be one and be Pope, but it's so obvious what he's doing that I'm not impressed. What the world really needs from the Catholic Church is a change in some of their doctrines. It really doesn't matter if he chooses to live in a hotel or he drives a used car. What's up with the hotel room, anyway? They have had those papal apartments for centuries; it's not like the church is paying rent for the Pope to live in them. It's all just a show so he can look like he's making sacrifices. He can live in a Motel 6 and drive his old car if he chooses to, but until he makes some changes in how his church conducts itself, I'm not going to pay much attention to him.

[gopiscrap]

24. yeah it's too early, but I really like him

I would say John XXIII and possible Leo XIII rate up there I think John Paul I would have been really good also had the Curia not killed him

[polly7]

25. He impresses me as a good, kind and brave person.

I'm happy for everyone in the Catholic Church and beyond.

Pope Francis washes feet of male, female prison inmates

Two who participated in ancient ritual were young women, noteworthy considering Vatican’s prohibition on female priests

The Associated Press Posted: Mar 28, 2013 12:17 PM ET Last Updated: Mar 28, 2013 4:14 PM ET

That Francis would include women in this re-enactment is symbolically noteworthy given the insistence of some in the church that the ritual be reserved for men only given that Jesus’ disciples were all male, and that the Catholic priesthood that evolved from the original 12 disciples is restricted to men.

“The pope’s washing the feet of women is hugely significant, because including women in this part of the Holy Thursday Mass has been frowned on — and even banned — in some dioceses,” said the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author of “The Jesuit Guide.” “It shows the all-embracing love of Christ, who ministered to all he met: man or woman, slave or free, Jew or Gentile.”

After the Mass, Francis greeted each of the inmates and gave each one an Easter egg.

“Don’t lose hope,” he said. “Understand? With hope you can always go on.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/28/pope-prison-visit.html

[dimbear]

26. It's way too early. Hold on until he faces a real crisis. Like the SSPX walking out permanently or

something like that.

Plenty of time.

[madrchsod]

27. time will tell if he can move the church into this century.

so far he`s doing the best job he can.

[rug]

28. I didn't know his father was a Jesuit seminarian.

[onehandle]

30. Me neither. nt

[Arugula Latte]

29. "Best Pope ever!" -- that's similar to "Very favorite weeping fungal infection!"

[etherealtruth]

33. Yes it is ... but,

... he has acted in ways that have made me take notice (in a positive way).

Can he undo all that is wrong with the church (speaking over a short time) ... of course not. Can he set the church on a path to redemption? ... I think it is possible.

his leadership of the Catholic Church is worth watching!

[Motown_Johnny]

37. Most Modern Pope Ever, if that translates to "Best" for Chris

well then so be it.

It may be true because the bar was so low.


If he doesn't cover up for child rapists or send the devout to kill people of another faith then he is in the top 20% or so.

If he keeps on doing what he has been doing for a couple of decades then he may very well end up being the best ever.

[bhikkhu]

42. So far so good, but lets see how he stands on women's rights

The catholic church has been rigidly backwards on things for far too long. He'd have a tough road ahead to change things, if he wanted to change things. We'll see.

[Morning Dew]

43. A dubious honor, I'd say

Akin to

Best Manson Girl

or

Best Westboro Baptist Protester

or

Best Serial Killer