Firing at Man in Times Square, Police Wound Two Bystanders (NYT)

[jsr]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/nyregion/firing-at-man-in-times-square-police-wound-two-bystanders.html

Firing at Man in Times Square, Police Wound Two Bystanders
By MICHAEL SCHWIRTZ and JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN

Confronted by an agitated man who at one point lay down in the middle of a crowded intersection in Times Square, two police officers fired shots late Saturday evening at the man, striking two bystanders instead, the police said.

Both bystanders are women from Manhattan, and happened to be walking in the vicinity when the police officers opened fire, Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said at a news conference at Bellevue Hospital Center early Sunday morning.

A bullet hit one woman, 54, in the leg, fracturing her tibia and fibula, Mr. Kelly said. She was taken to Bellevue Hospital where she was expected to undergo surgery. The other woman, 35, suffered a graze wound to the buttock. She was treated at Roosevelt Hospital and was in the process of being released, Mr. Kelly said.

Both women were shot on the northeast corner of 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue in Times Square. Neither woman was identified.

[Scuba]

1. Well, yeah, but these were highly trained law enforcement officers ...

... not untrained CCW permit holders. Obviously citizen vigilantes wouldn't have hit innocent bystanders.





sarcasm thingy here for the impaired.

[rl6214]

2. Good thing only highly trained professionals are allowed to carry guns in NY

And they better not be carrying more than 7 rounds each.

[Logical]

5. Well, they are more trained than 90% of the CC holders. So it just shows, bad shit happens. n-t

[rl6214]

7. More than 90% of the CC holders?

I seriously doubt that. I have helped train many-a police professionals. They fire 50-100 rounds a year when they qualify, not the 1000's of rounds a year that most firearms enthusiasts fire.

[Logical]

9. I know maybe 12 CC holders including me. I bet 4 of them, including me fire their gun once a year...

I know that is a small sample but most CC holders get their license to have it if they need it. And don't think about practicing.

If cops can easily make a bad shooting then of course any citizen could just as easily.

On edit, my CC class had 34 people in it. 12 of them had never fired a gun. They all passed.

[rl6214]

12. Then you need to get out and practice more, that is irresponsible if you ever carry.

Every CC holder I know fires 1000s of rounds yearly. Maybe that's because I live in the western US. I know of only a couple of cops that shoot that much.

[Logical]

13. You are also ignoring the fact that cops....

deal with stressful situations way more than the public. Stress, nervess,etc. Most people never have a confrontation like most cops have once a year. It is a scary experience.

You are way over estimating how prepared the average CC holder is.

Good news, most cops never fire their gun in a whole career. So these idiotic unprepared CC holders even have less of a chance.

[rl6214]

15. So you are an "idiotic unprepared CC holder"?

[Logical]

16. You must have trouble reading.......

I said "I bet 4 of them, INCLUDING ME fire their gun once a year"

So I do fire my gun.

Understand now?

[rl6214]

18. "Understand now"

Once a year.

Like I said, most cops are poorly trained, they only shoot 50-100 rounds a year, when they do their once a year qualifying.

You are as poorly trained as they are and I hope you NEVER carry your firearm. You would be dangerous.

That I definately understand.

[Logical]

19. OK, once again simple.....

Once a year at least. So in other words the other group do not even shoot once a year.

Answer my other post. Can't wait for your answer about holding CC owners to your view of what is qualified.

[rl6214]

23. Moving the goalpost now

"Once a year at least".

Gotta add that "at least" in there.

"So in other words the other group do not even shoot once a year".

Another ten yard move of that goalpost.

I already answered your other post, do try to keep up.

[Logical]

24. You typically get off topic on arguments. But I would call you an extreme gun owner anyway based...

on past discussions.

Good luck with your police training job. LOL.

[rl6214]

27. "Based on past discussions"

I would say as usual you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You can't keep up so you move the goalposts, I never got "off topic".

I would call you an irresponsible gun owner, you know, the type that Hoyt and Jpak says shouldn't be allowed to carry guns much less own them.

"Good luck with your police training job".

There ya go, losing it again. Please show me where I said I had a "police training job".

As much fun as this is, I need to go cut the lawn before football comes on. I hope you didn't hurt your back. You know, those goalposts are heavy and all.

[Logical]

17. LOL, I know your posting history, so.....

are you willing to set up a process where CC holders need to pass a yearly shooting test or lose their CC license? Also, where they need to get a range owner to sign off on rounds fired per year to keep their license. Like 1000 rounds per year?

[rl6214]

21. LOL, a I know your posting history here as well

Yearly shooting test, sure, if we are also going to do yearly driving tests because I see CC permits just like drivers licenses. Good for five years them renew and you don't even need to take a driving test every time you renew it.

As far as a range officer, I don't shoot at a range quite often. They cost money. I shoot in the desert southwest at a range I have set up myself.

[Logical]

22. So you think they should shoot 1000s of rounds per year but do not want to require it? So in other..

words you think there could be thousands of CC citizens not qualified to carry?

[rl6214]

25. Do I think cops shoot 1000s of rounds yearly? No

Do I think most CC holders shoot 1000s of rounds yearly? Most that I know.

Did I post anywhere that a CC holder "should shoot 1000s of rounds per year"? NOPE.

"So in other words you think there could be thousands of CC citizens not qualified to carry?"

In what words, please show me these words or anything of the sort.

[Orrex]

26. I look forward to your source for those statistics

They fire 50-100 rounds a year when they qualify, not the 1000's of rounds a year that most firearms enthusiasts fire.

What's your source for this surprising tidbit?

[rl6214]

29. Google can be your friend

If you think there are stats out there, have fun looking for them. I've got productive work I've got to go do. The lawn isn't going to cut itself.

[Orrex]

30. So you want me to provide citations for your claims?

In other words, a gun advocate can't back up his argument?

Color me shocked.

[Duckhunter935]

33. I know we did less than 100 per year

in the military, 18 or less to zero and 40 to qualify. once per year.

[warrant46]

10. the "agitated" man displayed his finger

Then these expert marksmen tried to shoot him down like a rabid dog in the street.

I guess they didn't get close enough to use their Tasers ?

3 total shots were fired the other bullet is somewhere in the ether

[Logical]

14. No doubt this is a bad shoot. But the NYPD, who gets to investigate their OWN crimes, will find....

it was a perfect shoot.

[etherealtruth]

3. What was needed here was more yahoos with guns

[Logical]

4. Prediction, Cops will receive no punishment! n-t

[rl6214]

8. I'm sure you are correct here.

[TransitJohn]

6. If only those women had had guns, this could have been prevented.

[Boom Sound 416]

11. Stupid Florida

[oneshooter]

31. Stupid Boom Sound, it was New York City.

[Boom Sound 416]

34. No shit Sherlock

[DanTex]

20. If only there some conceal-carry yahoos around, it would have been so much safer!

[Octafish]

28. A friend of my cousin's roomate at college shot HIMSELF in New York City and spent 2 years in jail.

Plaxico Burress, a guy Mayor Bloomberg made into an example.

For a good source on how New York police are held accountable, ask Amadou Diallo how he's doing, if we could.

[oneshooter]

32. Given the lack of firearms training, practice, and a 12# "New York" trigger

that this happened does not surprise me. That it doesn't happen more often surprises the heck out of me.