General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPresident Obama Rejects Criticism of Shifting Syria Policy: ‘I’m Less Concerned About Style Points’
Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2013, 11:12 AM - Edit history (1)
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/obama-defends-shifting-syria-policy-im-less-concerned-about-style-points/(snip)
Im less concerned about style points. Im much more concerned with getting the policy right, Obama told ABCs George Stephanopoulos in an exclusive interview on This Week.
Obama said his surprise announcement on Aug. 31 that he would seek congressional authorization for U.S. military strikes against Syria, then the abrupt cancellation of a vote this week and pursuit of a diplomatic plan led by the Russians, has put the country definitely in a better position.
My entire goal throughout this exercise is to make sure what happened on Aug. 21 does not happen again, the president told Stephanopoulos of the large-scale chemical weapons attack outside Damascus that he said killed more than 1,400 civilians.
(snip)
The president said a verifiable agreement to disarm Assad of his chemical stockpiles will go further than any U.S. military strikes could have in eliminating the threat of their use.
If that goal is achieved, then it sounds to me like we did something right, Obama said.
Full Transcript: President Obama Speaks Exclusively to George Stephanopoulos on This Week
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/full-transcript-president-obamas-exclusive-interview-with-george-stephanopoulos/
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
It is a wisdom greater than most can recognize.
It's not what you look like, when you're doin' what you're doin'
It's what you're doin' when you're doin' what you look like you're doin'!
GeorgeGist
(25,319 posts)that he was bluffing.
karynnj
(59,501 posts)From the beginning, the top think he and Kerry said was that there had to be a response. Note - it was not - there has to be a military response.
I suspect that the answer Kerry gave was the same answer privately given to Russia from day 1 - because it is so obvious - and Russia, not the US - had the leverage to make that the solution.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)concepts. Obama at his best is better than those concepts. He's in the moment as the moment happens and as he said, not overly concerned with the style points. No one can plan down complex global politics in advance, but most will take a position and hold it no matter what the next moment brings. It takes the chops to remain fluid and not give a fuck if you have to 'sound bad' one day or 'appear to be playing catch up'. Not caring about the style points, or about whose idea started it or how much credit goes to whom is powerful sauce when a person has the ability to follow such paths.
But it is not over and to toast an un-won victory is such incredibly bad luck hubris stuff that I really will not say 'we avoided war' until it is well avoided and those chemical weapons are gone..
Hekate
(90,645 posts)Kber
(5,043 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)That it not happen again.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Only a few days ago, Syria was denying having chemical weapons and having used them. From now on we are in a new phase," he said.
China welcomes US-Russia deal on Syria weapons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023671026
Anyone who believes the spin that Syria having to admit to and give up its chemical arsenal in order to avoid a strike is a "win" for Assad or Putin is gullible.
Putin and Assad are trying save Assad's ass. That is not having an upperhand
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023657282
Abukhatar
(90 posts)concerned about scoring points on Obama you refuse to see the greater potential benefit
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I actually said "at your own peril"....and they laughed....but he who laughs last...laughs hardest!
Cha
(297,154 posts)lolol rofl.
Hekate
(90,645 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)leftstreet
(36,106 posts)MH1
(17,600 posts)It's not Obama you have to worry about on that one.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)"Style points"? Getting the policy right? You mean like threatening an illegal military action and behaving as though one is a loose cannon on the international stage? That's good policy?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)about Assad's use of chemical weapons. Assad would undoubtedly have been so touched by such pacifism that he would have turned them over voluntarily.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)There is a vast gulf of options between your ridiculous "do squat" characterization and threatening illegal acts of war.
I know that the Obama administration and many here on DU have been portraying those as the only POSSIBLE options between which to choose.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)...along with hand-wringing, tisk-tisking, and when the Assad's people kept gassing children, finding some way to to blame his actions on the United States and/or Israel, as people like you always do.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Conservative "Democrat"
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)You can't think of anything to say, so you put scare-quotes around Democrat.
Yes. People like me, the center part of center-left, are the strength of the Democratic Party. Screaming fuck-wits who constantly bash Democrats, because reality never intrudes on their daydreams and insipid anti-Americanism are its weakness (if they vote for Democrats at all - instead of being Naderites who gave us Bush).
For the record, I'm happy that the President drew a line against innocent children being gassed to death, and took the necessary steps to keep it from happening again. And I'm quite confidant that if he hadn't taken the steps he did, would have seen more of real actual WMDs in the Syrian civil war.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
geez On this one, get a clue.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Threatening an illegal act of war = WRONG policy.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)all I saw was cannons threatened...
walking softly...carrying a big stick...and not being afraid to use it if necessary.... IS good policy!
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)these past few decades.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)policy is a sign of good character and an agile mind. I am grateful to Obama for being flexible and seizing and opportunity when one arises. This new policy could save many lives to say nothing of a lot of American tax money.
Good job, Mr. President.
If this does not work out, back to Plan A. But if it does work out, the world will be very grateful and a lot of Syrians will be thanking you for their lives.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)on point
(2,506 posts)Good result on the offing now just pursue this via legal channels (UN, Haugue) to build up institutions and process
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)After 2 years of diplomatic efforts being blocked by Russia and China, and things going from bad to worse (gassing of 400 children), Obama finally proposed a limited strike to hit Assad's CW launching capabilities. And that was when Russia finally came to Jesus.
on point
(2,506 posts)Attacking it would be a war crime, just like attacking Iraq was. The Security council may be block now, but that is the legal pathway. Work on institutional problems identified, but use the machinery to make it stronger
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)so you were obviously wrong when you claimed that Obama went "military bully first." The threat of military force was a last resort after two years of blocked efforts...and one that finally forced Russia to engage in ridding Syria of CW. It is a good result, yet you found a reason to complain about these hopeful developments, using false assertions about Obama.
And you are wrong about Syria's use of chemical weapons not being a threat to us. Fighting chemical weapons use is in our national interest.
on point
(2,506 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)And if the UN HAD been able to pass a resolution of force, you do realize that would mean we would still be using our military to bomb Syria right?
Cha
(297,154 posts)negotiations and think they know everything there is to know about it.. and don't mind spouting off about it on the internet.
EarlG got it on 9/11/13 or thereabouts.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3673218
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Cha
(297,154 posts)DU.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)As you know the phrase originated with Theodore Roosevelt. The first reference of the phrase by Roosevelt was in a letter to Henry L. Sprague (January 26, 1900). The following is from American Treasures of the Library of Congress (http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/trm139.html) -
This letter contains what is thought to be the first recorded use of the phrase "Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick," which was later to become a trademark description of Theodore Roosevelts foreign policy. Here, Roosevelt, then New Yorks governor, waxes happily in the knowledge that he has forced the states Republican leaders to abandon their support for the renomination of the corrupt Louis Payne as the states insurance commissioner.
.
Wikipeidia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_Diplomacy) Says Roosevelt got the term from a West African proverb, "Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far". There are other sources which say the phrase originate with Roosevelt himself. The following is from Phrase Finder (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/329050.html) -
Cha
(297,154 posts)my mind for over a week now.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Celefin
(532 posts)How is this going to help prevent breaches of 'international norms' and accompanying atrocities in the future?
The Bush junta at least put on an entertaining show at the UN and got a very elastic resolution out of it to cover the breach it was about to commit. That didn't exactly turn DU into a fan-club back then.
the Prez is too cool for school, I guess
*sigh*
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)You have to remember that whole "red line" comment was a YEAR ago. The DC Villagers like Chris Mathews dragged it up as if Obama had absolutely NO CHOICE but to invade Syria after chemical weapons were used because THOSE ARE THE RULES.
He actually said that if Obama DIDN'T invade that "He's finished as Commander In Chief".
We all know about the FOX "News" bubble but the DC bubble is even WORSE. Especially after Reagan turned the office of the President into a sales office. The entire attitude is the President's job is to sell his policies to the people and the congress and the idea of CHANGING a policy to fit the circumstance is simply NOT DONE. What's admired in DC is to stand firm and be the most stubborn asshole in the world DESPITE the facts going against you.
Cha
(297,154 posts)And, isn't he suppose to be some kind of genius political analyst?
lol.. "What's admired in DC is to stand firm and be the most stubborn asshole in the world DESPITE the facts going against you."
We saw that way too up close and personal with Dubyadown the decider.. who Tweety swooned at when he came out with "Mission Accomlished "
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)His choice for President in '08 was Rudy Giuliani who he admired for cracking down on the homeless so phone booths in New York didn't smell like pee. It was on an episode of Imus and he also said, "America wants a little bit of fascism."
http://mediamatters.org/research/2007/02/07/saying-the-country-wants-a-little-bit-of-fascis/137970
He has a father figure fetish that extends into an admiration for authoritarianism. Probably from his prior experience as a choir boy. That was evident with the way he swooned over Fred Thompson who he described lovingly thus:
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2007/06/14/13950/matthews-probes-thompsons-smell-sex-appeal/
Oh yeah,...he's a real genius all right...
The only purpose he serves is to act as a window on the worse of the worse of the DC Villagers.
Cha
(297,154 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:49 PM - Edit history (1)
Failed Tweetyisms!
"America wants a little bit of fascism." Guess not. Tweety wants it.
"Does have sex appeal?
Gene, do you think theres a sex appeal for this guy, this sort of mature, older man, you know?
Can you smell the English leather on this guy, the Aqua Velva, the sort of mature mans shaving cream, or whatever, you know, after he shaved? Do you smell that sort of a little bit of cigar smoke?"
Fred Thompson gives any sane person gag reflex.. next?
Thanks for the on the Tweetyster, Spitfire.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Poor Ann Marie Cox on the panel unable to keep a straight face. Meanwhile, the well scrubbed white boy Republican was more than willing to agree with the Tweetster.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)President Obama's Syrian lemonade tastes far better than Republican war koolaid ever did.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)that's really all that matters when it comes down to it.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Obama always had options to do the right thing without "looking bad."
Cha
(297,154 posts)That doesn't have a clue what went down. They're too busy looking for their next "Scamdal"..
mahalo cal
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Though graduate students in fifty years should have fun, when all this is declassified.