General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre colleges, high schools, the NFL, and fans prepared for the demise of US Football?
If not, they should start preparing. More and more health conscious parents of small boys are looking at the studies and deciding that football is too dangerous for their kids.
Anything else with such dire stats would have been banned long ago. If an adult chooses to play football, that's his or her right, but children and teens should be protected.
trumad
(41,692 posts)maybe not for years....but the evolution of the human body will make it impossible to play the football we know today.
A 6:5 Linebacker who can run a 4.5, 40---- can absolutely devastate anything he hits.
I've stood on the sideline of an NFL football game and it is the unbelievable thing I've ever seen or heard. Folks who watch it on TV or in the stands have no idea how loud it is when they hit each other.
I've said it before and I'll say it again---the NFL is the hardest hitting sport on the planet.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Kids are bigger and stronger, whether through advanced training, steroids, etc, so the hits are certainly more potent.
trumad
(41,692 posts)back in the days of Griese, Czonka, Warfield, etc. The pale in comparison to the size of the NFL players today.
15 years from now...WOW! who knows.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)40 years from now, I'll tune into an NFL game and think of this hilarious thread.
fried eggs
(910 posts)then football is done. You're betting that parents will ignore the concussion info, I'm betting they won't. In the last days of football, recruiters will focus heavily on poor schools but I think the backlash will be spectacular.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Most any guy who grew up playing football will think it is OK for his son to do the same. He will think that his son is strong enough to play the game and not be seriously hurt.
Some kids not playing won't change anything. There is still so much money in it that the vast majority will take the risk.
Maybe the NFL will try a few more tweaks to the rules. Or some health care protection for players (active and retired) but not much more will be done. It will be more than enough.
Add in college scholarships and the deal is done. Kids will play because the rewards outweigh the risks. They always will.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)the risks are worth it. People go to prison and die for far less money than the average NFL player makes.
Where there is money, there are willing people.
GeorgeGist
(25,315 posts)for your opinion to hold another 40 yrs.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)When you acquire dementia or als in your 40's after the average 4 year career, you end up broke pretty quickly. It isn't worth it, and prisons are filled with idiots who made bad choices.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)The median wage in the NFL is $770k, and the mean is $1.9m. Maybe for you that isn't worth it, but I can assure you that for many from poor areas this represents their only realistic chance of making it big in life. Become successful in the NFL and you're looking at a contract of $60m and some positions over $100m.
The supply of kids who dream of money and fame in the NFL will never dry up. In 30 or 40 years when you're hearing about Monday Night Football and the first $500M contract, remember this thread.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)If you end up with dementia in your 40's, as an astounding number of players do, you will go broke within a few years. Bryan Gumbel and others have been covering what is going on in the NFL with head injuries, and it is appalling.
Very few players are making 60M.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Or any other slum where people barely have the money to survive? For many football players, they have no realistic hope of wealth aside from football.
Do you realize how much $1.2m sounds like to a child born into crushing poverty? If everyone based their actions on probability and not dreams, no one would play the lottery.
davepc
(3,936 posts)The links between boxing and CTE have been known for decades.
Aristus
(66,307 posts)There's too much money to be made. And the people making the money aren't going to be held back by an avalanche of brain injuries. Anymore than the coal barons are held back by mine collapses and explosions, debilitating lung diseases, and air that you can cut with a knife.
Don't forget, the people who should side with the voices of reason probably like watching football too much to be swayed by medical science and compassionate humanity...
trumad
(41,692 posts)Again...the size of player evolution will do the game in.
Not now...not tomorrow. But for sure in the future.
GeorgeGist
(25,315 posts)ring a bell?
Aristus
(66,307 posts)So does: "When my boy makes it to the NFL, he's gonna be a millionaire!
Again: $$$$$$$.
When a football family is chasing the gilded ring alongside a talented son, a retirement punctuated by agonizing and debilitating neurological and musculoskeletal ailments is just an abstract concept...
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)I'm not giving any ratings to something that constantly results in TBI and serious limb damage.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Bleh.
If this works too, I don't care. Less football is good.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)don't take education seriously? When football declines and some other big moneymaking sport takes its place, why would education be taken more seriously?
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)mick063
(2,424 posts)We can light tap water on fire and you think football will die.
It might change, but it won't die. Perhaps a size limit to players. Perhaps physical restrictors to speed similar to "restrictor plate" racing in NASCAR. Which brings up the dangerous topics of auto racing, or ultimate fighting, or deer hunting.
There is a long list of exposures that harm a greater percentage of the population than football.
Football is every bit as popular as guns. Similar to guns, I would call it nearly impossible to meaningfully legislate.
I predict there would be major backlash. Where would it end?
Do you envision a world where people live in bubble suits?
furious
(202 posts)How so?
How many folks have tripped over a log, burned their hand in a campfire, driven their truck off a hillside, or accidently shot another hunter?
I'll bet there are as many people injured in the act of deer hunting as playing football.
Perhaps bicycles should be banned as well.
furious
(202 posts)And there are several positives to deer hunting compared to football, like, putting meat on a table, keeping the deer population under control, revenue collected from deer tags.
Football, not so much, I would much rather be out hunting deer than watching/attending a football game, I could care less if it went away tomorrow.
mick063
(2,424 posts)They have given me an approximate cost per pound of venison. They claim that legal hunting may be the least cost effective way of putting meat on the table. Even when "set up" with all the gear, the cost of maintaining the sport doesn't justify the cost of the meat. They claim it is pure sport.
You tell me. If a guy were to start from scratch, what would a hunting trip cost in time and materials?
furious
(202 posts)but if you hunt for food, in the long run, it's actually cheaper than buying in the store.
Here's what I paid years and years ago for my hunting rifle.
Remington 700 30.06-used, $500.00.
Here's what I pay yearly.
Hunting license-$33.00
Deer Tag-$50.00.
Cost of dressing deer-depends on how much the deer weighs, I dress all my own game, so I don't know what the cost is if done by a company.
Time-depends on how long one wants to stay out, usually for me, it's a day or two.
Plus the added cost of much better tasting and healthier meat, and for me, the joy of the hunt and the pleasure of knowing that I'm doing my part for conservation, which my fees go towards.
Hunting isn't for everyone, you have to have the patience and skill to take down wild game.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)Football transcends political differences.
But what is chancing is that even people who are fans of the game do not want there own kids playing.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Is it now? And how much does the deterioration of Ali have to do with that?
The diehard fans will remain, the casual fans will drop away.
I was more than casual, but I won't even watch it now. Like boxing. Like horse racing. Never did watch deer hunting, except the movie.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I do think that new rules and equipment are on the immediate horizon.
Journeyman
(15,028 posts)To combat head injuries, he had developed a restraint system, similar to auto safety belts, where belts mounted in the shoulder pads were connected to the helmet. When the player impacted with another player, the belts would tighten and keep his head from bouncing around too much. The idea met with favorable response (though evidently not enough, as this particular feature has not been adopted yet that I'm aware of), but the inventor had little belief his invention would ultimately protect the players.
"The problem," he said, "and this is true throughout the history of the game, every time there are improvements to the equipment the players just hit each other harder."
I do agree with you, HappyMe, that new rules (and rigid enforcement of them) will help improve the safety of the game.
CK_John
(10,005 posts)schools with big football programs be a help in saving them closeing? I not sure.
mick063
(2,424 posts)Revenue from college sports are here to stay.
The services of the players are relatively cheap when profit margin is considered.
shanti
(21,675 posts)case in point, my son, who never played football. i wouldn't let him, but he never showed much interest in the sport, probably because neither his father nor myself are football fans. my son did play varsity basketball, and injured himself several times. the worst was after he graduated. he was playing a pick up game at the gym, against a very physical player. they knocked heads when they dove for a ball. my son passed out for a couple of minutes.
when he came to, his memory wasn't there. i drove him to the hospital for an mri, but they didn't find anything. he was a totally different kid for about 3 weeks, when his memory started returning. it's been several years, he's ok now, but i always wonder about the long term affects of his concussion. he still plays pick up basketball, and i've tried to discourage him, but he's an adult and makes his own decisions
mick063
(2,424 posts)n/t
furious
(202 posts)Far too much money involved in college and pro football, college football because of the ticket and concessions revenue, pro football because of the all around revenue.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)... even people who are big football fans are starting to not want their own kids to play. If this continues it will pose big problems.
Why do you think there have rule chance for larger penalties for head hits? Also the league is spending a **** load of money to try to make helmets protect the skull better.
They wouldn't be doing it if they weren't worried about this.
I am a big football fan but I do not want my hobby costing anyone their livelihood
iandhr
(6,852 posts)said he does not want his grandson to play football.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/06/entertainment/la-et-st-harry-carson-watch-my-nfl-expose-before-your-kid-plays-football-20130806
furious
(202 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)... from a NFL Hall of Famer.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)Has anyone ever done a study comparing the prevalence of head injuries in Football to Hockey?
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)TlalocW
(15,378 posts)Sooner it comes the better. Bunch of cry-baby millionaires, at least half of whom are juicing. Why admire these assholes and pay them so much to play games.
TlalocW
frylock
(34,825 posts)buncha crybaby millionaire assholes actors.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Is there no professional sport you'd allow to remain?
TlalocW
(15,378 posts)I just have never thought of professional athletes as heroes, and especially now what with all the various juicing going on in all sports, I don't understand anyone who looks up to them.
TlalocW
maindawg
(1,151 posts)That some player gets capped and dies on TV , the issue will become relevant.
It was two years ago that James Harrison was on the verge when the league had to step in and issue a new rule and stuff and James dialed it down to 'maim' again.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)just kidding
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)Mesi, Rooney, Hernandez, Suarez, Van Persie. These are the new sports heros of the teens. Madrid, Manchester, Liverpool, are the new teams they love. Buh bye fotball. Old mans game now.
shanti
(21,675 posts)yup, you can also make the same comparison between boxing and mixed martial arts.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)We're talking 2 daughters and 1 son. Also had 2 nephews who played h.s. soccer and one of them played intercollegiate. Never a concussion or more serious head injury to any player on any of their teams - worst injuries were to knees, and very few of them.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)during soccer games. In addition, to have the game become more popular in countries like the USA, soccer referees are allowing somewhat rougher play.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Manchester City or Manchester United? My family are Spurs fans.
English Premier League is gaining fans in US
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-08-16/sports/41416559_1_nbc-sports-network-english-premier-league-fox-soccer-channel
The network typically will show three matches live on Saturdays (two on NBC Sports Network, the networks cable channel, and one on NBC), two on Sundays and one on Mondays (all on NBCSN) through the nine-month campaign. Coverage will also appear on three other properties: CNBC, Spanish-language Telemundo and mun2, a bilingual channel geared toward young viewers.
Games not available on standard outlets will appear on overflow channels at no charge to cable and satellite subscribers who receive NBCSN. (Many, but not all, systems are participating.) NBC Sports Live Extra, the networks online streaming service, will provide coverage of every match for desktops, tablets and mobile devices.
People in the United States have been begging and dying for this kind of coverage, NBC coordinating producer Pierre Moossa said.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Last fall, in a surprising outcome, NBC outbid ESPN and Fox, which had held the property for three years at a cost of $80 million, for the rights to televise Premier League games. Fox showed most games on two boutique channels as well as an online pay service and licensed others to ESPN. NBCSN is available in twice as many households as Fox Soccer Channel, which, with the debut of Fox Sports 1 this month, is in the process of being dissolved.
Fox Sports 1 will carry the other powerhouse soccer property, the UEFA Champions League, while ESPN and NBC will continue to share Major League Soccer coverage. ESPN also has the 2014 World Cup rights.
In all, more than 150 Premier League matches will appear on NBCSN this season and another 20 on NBC mainstream visibility for a sport restless to shed its niche reputation in the United States.
I dont think [soccer has] ever been this popular, said White, who handled play-by-play for the Seattle Sounders of MLS for two years before moving to NBCs MLS coverage in 2012. Is it a tipping point? Well have to wait and see. I just know there is a huge amount of following of the game in the United States.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Bears legend Gale Sayers sued the NFL on Friday, claiming the league negligently handled his repeated head injuries during his seven-year career.
Sayers, a Hall of Fame running back who played with the Bears from 1965 to 1971, said in the lawsuit filed Friday in U.S. District Court in Chicago that he suffered headaches and short-term memory loss after retirement.
Sayers says he sometimes was sent back into games after suffering concussions and that the NFL overall didnt do enough to protect him from the devastating concussive head traumas, according to the lawsuit.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-gale-sayers-sues-nfl-claims-memory-loss-from-head-injuries-20130920,0,7204066.story
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)He plays other sports, but not that one. Last week a friend of his on the high school football team came close to being paralyzed from a blow.
Personally I would be delighted to see that sport die, but I get that a lot of people are really into it.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Smarter parents will have their kids playing baseball
Dumb inbred rednecks will still have "thar kids playin FOOBALL!"
Teach29
(33 posts)Baseball has the highest fatality rate among youth sports. I have been begging our little league to require Heart-Gard's be be worn by players but they will not until the national organization requires it. I just don't understand why they do not.
http://www.lpch.org/DiseaseHealthInfo/HealthLibrary/orthopaedics/stats.html
http://youthsportssafetynow.blogspot.com/p/little-league-deaths_9867.html
http://www.homeofsafeheart.com/whysafeheart.html
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Is it the heat exhaustion?
Teach29
(33 posts)A blow to a young child's chest can stop the heart instantly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis
The list I linked from Youth Sports Safety Now does not list any from heat exhaustion. Almost all are blows to the head and chest.
Throd
(7,208 posts)Do it right now. It is Saturday, so there is a game on at this very moment.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Not too many Trumps playing Third Base
LuvNewcastle
(16,843 posts)let them do a lot of things, but head injuries are nothing to play around with. I've had a couple myself, and they had an effect on my life. People should be very protective of their heads, especially kids whose brains are still developing. We don't even know enough about the brain yet to say how much even small head injuries affect it.
OregonBlue
(7,754 posts)remember, they do not have enough players for a football team. Several parents withdrew their boys based upon concerns about head injuries. If it's happening in small town, blue blood, America, it is happening everywhere.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I can't stand sports in general, but I don't see this one going away any time soon.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)... shows how much action and buffeting are possible without injury. Football should be okay with some rule and equipment changes.
MineralMan
(146,281 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)There should also be weight limits on the players.
longship
(40,416 posts)Unfortunately, US football stadiums aren't large enough for Aussie rules, which is played on much larger cricket grounds.
Too bad. Aussie rules football is awesome.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)They'll install airbags and seatbelts in football helmets before this sport declines.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)see that happening.
The total demise of US football, I mean.
Oh sure, parents will be able to keep their minor children from playing it, but once a kid gets to college, all bets are off.
Maybe we should ban all sports where someone could get hurt.
Like...boxing. Hockey. Bobsledding (remember the bobsledder who died at the winter Olympics not long ago?).
My 12 year old granddaughter had to quit gymnastics a few years ago because her mom thought they were too dangerous. Well, my poor granddaughter got a severe concussion after doing a backflip into an inground swimming pool earlier this month.
Try to keep your kid safe, and look what happens.
Might as well just lock them all up...
GeorgeGist
(25,315 posts)mwooldri
(10,302 posts)One of those tiddlywinks could fly into an eye...
Seriously, American Football does need to get its house in order.. but this could lead to a revival of Rugby here... The safety equipment in Rugby isn't as extensive as American football... but it's a good alternative.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It's beginning to look like the game is inherently injurious. That's different from a sport which has hazards.
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)The defense can't hit anyone anymore, you're not allowed to cover, you can't touch QBs. We're already seeing the demise being played out. Soon it will basically be flag football and who wants to see that?
randome
(34,845 posts)(I know, obviously a lot of people do but I don't understand that. Why watch when you can participate?)
We often hear from supporters of the sport how it's just as much about agility as violence. If I was inclined to watch any sport on TV, I would find much to appreciate from feats of agility and intelligence.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)In which one kid "hit" the other one with his head and went down motionless on the ground.
And there was an ambulance on the side of the field and the operators were sitting in lawn chairs watching the game and when they were called out it was like the Keystone cops with the ambulance ruining over the chairs they were sitting on.
I later learned the kid died of his injures.
Fuck that shit...
dotymed
(5,610 posts)In small town, Midwest Indiana, the ambulance volunteers sat behind the field, watched and got drunk. We had some bad injuries. Fortunately, no fatalities.
H.S. sports are now reserved (varsity level) for kids whose parents can afford all of the camps, etc..
panader0
(25,816 posts)No baseball, football, basketball, race car driving, rodeo, and the list goes on and on. Oh, and those horrible players!11!
Some times I think this place takes political correctness to an absurd degree.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)they are allowed to do or not do.
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)If anything, I see it going the other way. State legislatures and the feds protecting schools and states from the trial bar by giving liability protection to football programs.
Sorry -- we're a nation of soccer-haters. At least at the spectator level.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)I'd look more at declining cable subscriptions. The NFL and college ball rely on the billions they get in TV revenue. Given that it's likely peaked already, I expect the popularity to decline over the next 20 years or so.
ileus
(15,396 posts)They still lost but it was a good game for the team.
Football isn't going anywhere, safety will improve. The already have superior motocross helments and I don't see why the technology couldn't be used in football.
http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/360b599e-7916-46e3-abe5-aa583aea89b1.aspx
^I hope to get my son one of these before next season. (if he decides to actually race)
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)god's sake. I agree that they should take the injuries more seriously and they are, but unless we put them in a bubble and never let them do anything kids are going to get hurt. My son likes PE and sports. Do I worry he could get hurt? Yes. My daughter is grown now. She is riding public transportation. Do I worry about her safety any less than I worry about my son's safety? No. My husband and daughter were riding the bus the other day and my husband had to step in when a drunk was harassing women. Anytime my daughter rides the bus I realize that could be her. But I let my children out into the world. You have to let them live, and you can't live your life in constant fear. Why are any of us here if we are going to do nothing but live in fear? Why is it worth being here if we have to live in constant fear? Every day I take just the smallest of moments to be thankful my family is home and together. I listen to the laughter. I watch my kids become these incredible human beings. And I am thankful that they are mine for a short period of time. I lost my mother to breast cancer. She was 32. I was 3. I realize how short it all can be.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)school systems are going to get sued and those suits are going to be successful because there is a clear liability issue. Same with the NFL - it is already being sued. The game is going to change, already is changing. It might continue but it won't be the same game.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)together. Professional football players in particular are bigger than they use to be. They tend to cause more damage to each other than they use to.
Tien1985
(920 posts)Sound realistic. I am the kind of person who would dance on professional football's grave if it died tomorrow. But the reality is that's likely not ever going to happen.
Your argument is that less parents are letting their kids play. Well, I don't know of too many parents who let their kids race cars, but we still have NASCAR. And that's assuming that all parents stop letting their kids play, which doesn't seem likely.
If you said less parents (and therefore kids) are WATCHING football, I'd think you might be right.
BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)As many have noted. So we'll have a talent shortfall. The problem for American football is it's a cult sport that hasn't caught on with the rest of the world, so where to import from? They'll need a San Pedro de Macoris, but there isn't one.
gopiscrap
(23,733 posts)it's one of the factors that makes us so collectively aggressive.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,560 posts)it'd help. It should be prohibited to leave your feet when making contact
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)and I won't watch it at all now. IMO the game has corrupted higher education at many universities and in the NFL the players seem like members of another species, or mutants, or something.
I'm just not interested.
Although if the media decided to analyze our political / social / scientific / etc. challenges with the same attention, depth and insight as is bestowed on the game of football, that would be a good thing.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)I was asked more than a dozen times to play in high school. I knew better not to play this horrid sport.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I'm not sure whether the sport will disappear or not. Certainly better technology could be developed to improve player safety. I don't want to see players sustain injuries that are life threatening, but given some of the hits they take it happens.
In terms of watching a soccer game, I'd rather have a set of chopsticks jammed up my nose while having to watch Miley Cirus dance.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)Not much chance of a multibillion dollar business just up & going away anyways. I see a lot if sport hating in this thread. It's a shame, I admire a lot of these athletes because of their dedication and discipline to their sport. Whatever it may be.
And pointing out the few assholes in sports doesn't sway me. Football will live. And Philly will go to the Superbowl...eventually.
TBF
(32,029 posts)grew up in the area. I'm in Texas now and pay for Direct TV so I get every game ...
I also have a little boy who is true to his German/Polish roots - he looks like the typical big farm kid I grew up with. We debated letting him play pee wee football but in the end decided we just couldn't risk it. We have him in swimming and soccer. Not that they couldn't be dangerous but the information about concussions really worried us.
Chisox08
(1,898 posts)I see it all the time players leading with their heads trying to get that Sportscenter highlight hit. They have to learn proper technique when they first start playing so that they won't pick up the bad habit of leading with the helmet and launching themselves head first at the ball carrier. Keeping your head up and out of the way is the proper way to tackle and it seems like it is just now starting to be taught but for some players it is already too late.
Football is a dangerous sport and injuries happen, but there are ways to help minimize injuries but it will take a sport wide effort, from the NFL all the way down to the Pee-Wee leagues. They need to be taught to lower their target area and keep their heads out of the way. If I catch one of my players leading with their heads they are on the bench until they learn not to lead with their head. I don't care how much their parents bitch and moan about the benching.