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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMaybe the idealist liberals can just stifile themselves
Just hold those anti-war, social democracy, anti-poverty, anti-materialism thoughts, the pro civil rights talk, you know, the unequivocating advocacy idealist liberals and left wingers value so much...
Just hold that thought while we wait for a Democratic president to make it all happen for us.
Instead use all your idealism to support whatever he's doing, after all, it's the best you're gonna get and if you complain, without your support he'll get you even less of what you want than he'd planned.
What good does it possibly do to criticize the president from the left?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)You're scaring away the centrists.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)I thought they were the party crashers that won't go home?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)That tends to spook them.
I like that!! They get all up in arms when we talk about human rights, equality, and non-war solutions too. Oh, and taxing the plutocrats
dgibby
(9,474 posts)Don't forget the whistle blowers. That really gets their panties in a knot.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)BillyRibs
(787 posts)I had that album when I was a Kid!
jsr
(7,712 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)with promises to fix the glaring holes in it 4) swaying, chanting Maenads tell us that The Best Law Ever Passed in Any Cosmos has already saved America $1.1 vigintillion and 515 million American lives 5) the law comes into effect
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)No elected official will ever pick a fight with that industry.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Practically, probably not. But that's what idealists are for, to represent the possible. It's not as if this country hasn't gotten by without the Patriot Act (battleground rhetoric) and the NDAA (Constitutional waiver) in the past.
Idealist liberals serve to represent the founders views of what is best for civilization's advancement, not just capitalism's.
Or the military's.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)The people can take them down any day, if they really want to.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Bottom line, once a law passes, it is impossible during the average lifetime, to change it. And the know that which is why they went the Left to STFU and let it pass.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)Why do you spread lies?
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)The term and usage itself I see as part and parcel of the oppositional, black-and-white, reduction to the ridiculous, and marginalizing differences of opinions into what used to pass for dialogue, political banter and discussion. It's kind of how the TEA Party took over the Republicans...machine gun, knee-jerk, for/against politics.
The terms "Derangement" and "Syndrome" (combined with the name of our first black president) infers some kind of mental deficiency. No one would say a MLK Derangement Syndrome or Jesus Derangement Syndrome just because folks might strongly disagree with some of their opinions and beliefs...it is a sign of disrespect for the name and office, regardless.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Charles Krauthammer as a convenient way for wingnuts to handwave away any criticism of the President.
Conservatives use the same devices across aisles and the Conservative Democrats that run with it are just following a well laid out meme in their tool box specifically designed to answer criticism and end debate without having to defend policies.
If the one that disagrees with the Conservative they defend "suffers" from this imaginary illness, then they are "disturbed mentally", "delusional", or possibly "unhinged conspiracy theorists" that can and should be silenced, ignored and scorned because whatever the criticism, it is obviously only the result of a "deranged" mind.
They found it very useful during the Bush years to silence criticism of Bush policies and are merely following what has been successful in the past to stifle current criticism of Centrist and often right wing policies in the present. It has been in their toolbox for over ten years so it's current use was not unexpected by people like me that have been arguing with conservatives of all stripes online since before DU was born.
Conservatives will be conservative and debate like conservatives no matter the party they wear on their sleeves.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bush_Derangement_Syndrome
BDS was originally coined by Krauthammer to attack Howard Dean, Barbara Streisand, and Bill Moyers in a pathetic attempt to equate them to full-on conspiracy theories about Dubya like Cynthia McKinney's endorsement of 9/11 "truth", and it soon became a convenient way for wingnuts to handwave away any criticism of Bush.[2] Unfortunately for those alleged to be suffering BDS, it is not listed in the DSM and as such unlikely to be covered by the average insurance plan.
an aspect of plausible deniability.
they dont need real excuses, and cannot defend their stance on a level playing field,
so its time to crazify them, Nixon style.
thats real rat f'ing.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)that BDS didn't sound all that bad, given his EQ, IQ and Defender of His Daddy's Honor to get us into a war, but guess that's kind of backwards as to the meaning. I still think the using the term with Obama is inappropriate for a man of his accomplishments and stature. I want to be able to disagree ... which I do often ... and make my point without being labled, however.
It does seem an irrational term and definitely inserts a non-dialogue, non-critical discussion as used on this site as a brush off to disagreement. I do believe that the knee-jerk criticisms from all sides come off as racist dog whistle, mostly because of the vehemence and vitriol. Democrats more so to his policies or to their disappointment, but others more to his person...BC, Birthplace, white mother, the Klayman diatribe, etc.
I've learned a lot on here.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Without these idealist liberals that are outspoken and puts themselves forwards, there will be a further decline towards the right.
Without firebrands that complain to show what is wrong, many just fall to complacency.
Stating that, I somehow think that some need to at least structure themselves.
What I mean is, collect your thoughts to be able to simplify your message.
Do not just attack, without figuring out where another person is coming from.
More likely than not, their position is not that far from yours, and you can use them to further your goals.
Assemble, come up with specific goals and again, identify yourselves.
In doing so, it makes it harder to be defined by someone else or subborn your message.
Good luck idealist liberals.
I can't say I am one of you, but I can respect where you're coming from.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)IronLionZion
(45,261 posts)And we could all benefit from more civil discourse.
I'll add that anytime anyone finds themselves very emotionally attached to the point of getting upset, it might be a good idea to take a break from the message boards for a while. I left for 5 years and came back recently and found that many of the usual suspects are still posting loyally. It was interesting to see how the site has been restructured, but the infighting around here will never change ever.
Some people are born to fight against something no matter what. Its in their nature to take a defensive contrarian position to anything, while ignoring the fact that it may be like 90% in agreement with their core beliefs. You can see this type of behavior on free republic too.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)Complaining about the democrats in power not being liberal enough is that they have to represent their constituents and since the press is controlled by the MIC and they have a conservative bent - Americans are more conservative now than they were when the great liberals were in power. There is a huge 'disinfotainment' industry hypnotizing the people to believe things that just aren't true.
I'd like for the democrats in office to be forwarding a more liberal agenda as much as anyone, but any serious student of history knows that it took a long time for FDR to get things going in the liberal direction.
There are a couple of facts that liberal idealists need to acknowledge: the Supreme Court leans conservative (google 'hardening of the judicial arteries') and the House of Representatives is controlled by conservatives. Our constitution intentionally balanced the power between the 3 branches and 2 (really 1-1/2) out of the 3 of them oppose the president. We have to be realistic about how much a liberal president can accomplish in an environment like that.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)It is why I limit my criticism, unless asked specifically what I think.
Yes, sometimes I do criticize, but acknowledge I don't know everything.
Still, I think firebrands are useful since, even if I am not where they are at, even if I think sometimes it is unworkable given the current situation, I think it keeps me somewhat honest.
Which is why I mentioned the plea of "don't just attack, without figuring out where the person is coming from". Chances are, we agree on the end point goal, but someone like me thinks in steps on how things could work towards a particular goal. I also have to think about the repercussions of achieving a goal, the unintended consequences.
The thing I must acknowledge however, is that someone like me deliberates on many things which can paralyze action. They push forwards, and it stops me from being too accepting of the status quo.
You're right however, that the current environment is very limiting, though I guess even I must admit that I wish the current President would show more gusto towards fighting for a more progressive agenda(although I do not think him liberal at all).
Blanks
(4,835 posts)All momentum will be lost.
This is why I feel like we need to be careful of the criticism that we try to place at the president's feet.
He can't forward an extremely liberal agenda before 2014 because there are still enough swing voters in this country that can be swayed by negative ads at the last minute. As a result - we end up with a watered down liberal administration trying to prevent losing any momentum (we had a little momentum from the ACA and Dodd-Frank). It took a long time to get things going in this direction and we don't have the benefit of the American people blaming the recession on republicans (FDR had that) so things are swinging very slowly.
I think we have to be patient, but if democrats criticizing the president causes us to lose seats in either the house or senate - I think it's a bad idea. Obviously, disagreement is healthy, but out and out bad mouthing - I believe that's damaging to our cause.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I am not really criticizing him much at the moment.
I understand that what he can accomplish is limited.
However, I do not see him forwarding a liberal agenda. I just don't see it.
If he does, I'd be surprised.
I also agree that out and out bad mouthing is not conducive to progress, since sometimes, all it does is entrenches people on their position.
To tell the truth, I am a wee bit concerned about people talking about 2016 already. 2014 is a far more important election at this time. Still, since I live in MD, it doesn't affect me much since I am at a very Blue State.
So, I donate to VA.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)All of the focus needs to be on 2014. I'm in Arkansas and the state legislature spends all of its time trying to limit reproductive rights. Its a waste of time. I often wonder if they even care about the agenda, or if they are just there making certain nothing productive happens (pun not intentional).
Just like the US House - 41 votes to repeal Obamacare: a program that came out of a right wing think tank. It isn't that they're actually trying to accomplish anything - they're making sure nothing gets accomplished.
I don't know that we necessarily disagree. It isn't that he couldn't be doing a better job as much as he isn't able to do the job that I'd like to see him doing. I just think we have to be realistic about what to expect in the current political climate.
msongs
(67,199 posts)Roland99
(53,342 posts)colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Support the TPP? Not going to happen, I suggest reading through this corporate takeover attempt.
Blind allegiance is never ever a good thing, it's like what Britney Spears said about Dubya.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)The negotiators aren't talking.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Ideologue, simply uncompromising and dogmatic.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)the difference between democrats and republicans is that democrats can disagree and not have to toe the crazy line.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 24, 2013, 06:08 PM - Edit history (1)
First, liberal idealism stretches the parameters of political and moral vision.
Second, it validates one group's aspirations within the larger partisan or national governing platform.
Third, there's much to be said for ongoing reminders to those who 'win' deals, that other, better efforts can also be envisioned and fought for, in the interest of the greatest good for the greatest number.
Fourth, reminding the larger American and human community of ideals is what we do. It has inherent validity.
Overall, I don't see people here being all that obnoxious about the president, really. Maybe I'm naive, but I trust the good intentions of all critics of the president here, because I believe they mean well, and because troll hunters here do an excellent job.
Let me ask others: what good does asking liberal idealists to quiet down do? The president told everyone, everyone -- not just liberals -- to hold his feet to the fire. I'm upset with many of his decisions but know that we're better off now than had the other guys won.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)Since this is DU, I will add the disclaimer that I do not take this as a license to slur or hate the man. Just the feet and fire thing.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)by candidate Obama.
RL
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)O shouldn't say shit like that unless he means it.
he can't say "make me" and then when we try to do that,
start whining about it and playing the victim.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)but his followers seem to be.
RL
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,789 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)Oh wait ...
Richardo
(38,391 posts)That's more than enough.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
Richardo
(38,391 posts)Autumn
(44,762 posts)There is never enough Third-Way Manny to go around.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)He will get a big head.
Autumn
(44,762 posts)He will have to get all those ideas out of his head and that means more posts, more adulation. There really isn't a down side to it.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)We do, however, have moderate manny in his stead.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Response to hootinholler (Reply #24)
Post removed
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)hope you don't get alerted on this, but excellent reply.
-p
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)That's what I read into it. Am I mistaken?
Doc_Technical
(3,504 posts)struggle4progress
(118,041 posts)... On a phone call with Henry Kissinger, Nixon was concerned that the Jews would sabotage an upcoming U.S.-Soviet summitand if they did, he said, its gonna be the worst thing that happened to Jews in American history. On another call, Nixon says he wants to fire his then-aide and lawyer, Leonard Garment, yelling God damn his Jewish soul! And in an Oval Office meeting, Nixon said that black people couldnt run Jamaica. Blacks cant run it. Nowhere, and they wont be able to for a hundred years, and maybe not for a thousand ... Do you know, maybe one black country thats well run? What sort of appointees would Nixon prefer, you ask? No Jews. We are adamant when I say no Jews ...
Nixon Tapes Reveal Anti-Semitic, Racist Comments
Enrique
(27,461 posts)remember that he is smarter than all of us!
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Maybe you could ask Rahm or Obama what good it does to throw the left under the bus. Obama did it on FOX news.
-p
ancianita
(35,816 posts)knows that. What he's done can only be done to leftist idealists if they let him. But they don't. They keep fussing, as is their right.
What he's done is just politics. They know that, too.
but if that's his politics then it's disgusting. I would vote for a Democrat like Warren any day over Obama, or even go native and vote for Bernie Sanders. Obama has done to many things that don't align with this liberal. A fucking kill list? Way to set precedence MR. O
-p
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Read up a little bit. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31925.htm
As you can see, he didn't invent killing lists.
It's easy to say NOW that we'd choose Warren or Sanders -- hell, I'm totally with you there -- but they came AFTER Obama's grueling and humiliating fight to be the leader of the most powerful country on the planet. Notice how Sanders didn't step up for the job, friend.
This president's job is totally different from theirs, as he well learned when he moved from their level of high ground moralism to oversee the largest military on the planet. How luxurious and safe we feel as we judge those who do our dirty work.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)Not just Sanders, friend.
The president got it because he wanted it and we trusted in him to do the dirty work and turn the ship around. I didn't expect him to do the *dirty* work, of which I can live without.
and no I do not feel "luxurious and safe we feel as we judge those who do our dirty work" because I don't have work. Which is why I voted for him, he's done quite the opposite. 2 FTA's and the TPP coming up next. We don't need anymore of that *dirty* work, friend.
I've actually been struggling since the Bush administration trying to take care of a family, I absolutley do not feel "luxurious and safe".
-p
ancianita
(35,816 posts)when we really don't have the weight and complexity of his position on our shoulders, either. Warren and Sanders know that.
Obama didn't develop the TPP after he got sworn into the job, either, so your throwing that in for good measure doesn't change my point. Just imagine what this country would be like if either of his opponents had won.
Feel free to slap me around with 'friend' all you want. I myself didn't use it in sarcasm.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)That is so old and worn out.
As I've said in previous posts, what is with this meme/notion/assumption that just because I criticize this president that I will auto magically vote Republican or not vote at all. It's ridiculous. If the obvious can't be seen by normal people, then we've got bigger problems.
-p
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)Sounds like prop-a-ganda. Sounds like STFU. And the justification for kill lists??
"How luxurious and safe we feel as we judge those who do our dirty work"
has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen all week. Says much more about you than anyone else here.
Luxurious and safe?? Hahahahahahaha, oh Drones killing innocent people, how safe, how luxurious. Lies, lies, lies, how safe and luxurious. I don't know anyone who has the luxury of safety, or feeling safe and most of that has to do with policies that O supports. I give him some credit for not involving us in yet another war, but public support is so adamantly against it I don't think Romney could have pulled it off. If you actually think that our govt is just keeping us safe, I have some swamp land to sell.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)those sweeping, unfair claims, too. Sorry to both phlem and you for the "luxurious and safe" phrase; it was a bit over the top, ambivalently meant more as a philosophical outlook than as a personal attack -- even if all of phlem's attacks were unfounded. I do stand behind everything else, though. Feel free to take one sentence out of thousands I've posted to decide who or what I am because you want to. That also says a lot about you, yourself.
I don't think that drones keep us safe, but stopping them will take more than putting their use solely on Obama's shoulders. Because huge numbers of Americans do say that they feel safer because of whatever our military does. Also becaue we're not the only public that the commander-in-chief deals with or listens to.
Sovereign rule comes down to "might makes right." No public morality has changed that bottom line behavior of leaders for thousands of years -- only by civil war or other leaders' force -- no matter how disgusting it appears. I don't like it myself, or endorse it, but it's a reality that I as an idealist liberal have had to face.
We're not a defeated civilian command, but we have lost a lot of control over the military, and it's a circumstance that I don't think is solely Obama's doing. How to regain it is a project that goes beyond this one president.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)SalmonChantedEvening
(31,947 posts)The Yuengling Brewing Co. on you!
K&R
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)to put me on their mailing list!
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)shame! SHAME!
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Society moves in steps. Not leaps.
Thanks to St. Reagan and pressure from Republicans, society stepped to the right. Repeatedly. Very far to the right.
It's now stepping back to the left. And we should continue to encourage that movement.
But it's like training a dog - you have to praise as well as pressure. You can't just yell and scream because the dog isn't doing exactly what you want the moment you want it.
And that's where the complaints about "idealist liberals" come from. There's tons of people who say things like "We didn't get single payer, so I'm never voting for a Democrat again". Or "Obama's just like W because he's threatening Syria" - despite the difference between threats and invasion. The "No difference between Republicans and Democrats" people.
That is what is frustrating. Because those "idealist liberals" stop helping to move society to the left. And without their help, it is harder to keep pulling society left. They are sabotaging their own stated goal and complaining about not reaching it.
We should be saying "good work" for the progress we do make, and keep pulling where we have not made sufficient progress. And yes, "idealist liberals" should do both - praise and pressure.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)It's not in the character of "long game" liberal idealists to throw in the towel with "nevers" or "no difference" bullshit. Those people are fair weather moderates, that's all they are.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)One only has to spend a little time in GD to find all sorts of people claiming the Republicans and Democrats are identical because (insert pet issue here) was not resolved precisely the way they want.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)moderates. Let's get the long game character of liberal idealists understood once and for all here.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Some understand the long game. Others don't. Both are here.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)Revolutionary.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Let's take some literal revolutions:
The French Revolution. It actually started several decades earlier with protests and a failed revolution (It's the one documented in "Les Miserables" . Society was taking steps, and it took awhile for change to really happen.
Same with the US revolution - the actual revolution was the culmination of a long series of steps, not the first steps.
Communist revolutions in countries like Russia and China? Same thing.
We teach these as events suddenly appearing, because that's a lot easier and shorter than showing the slow trend that lead to these events.
rivegauche
(601 posts)I agree with you 100%.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)...I wonder if the OP is being sarcastic!
Especially with the MLK pic... did MLK sit around and wait for LBJ to "make it all happen for" him?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)and yet another "lone assassin" took him out, with absolutely no connection to LBJ.
none. really. just coincidence, not a conspiracy.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)I'm sure we'll all be doing mea culpas for at least the next wee or two.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Gee, which sector invented terms like "leftbagger"? Our old friend the "pony" meme? I didn't know it was rude to advocate for higher taxes on the wealthy, higher minimum wages, fewer wars, more equality, and other things that are good for humans.
quakerboy
(13,901 posts)We all know that crazy lefties pushing on national politics always backfires.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)Maybe this time we'll get this resolved once and for all. A lasting peace between the "haters" and the "cheerleaders". Peace at last in DU land. Where ideas are debated on their merits.
Jake2413
(226 posts)to stop pressuring my President to do the right thing. Why should I settle for moderate Republican policy?
Gman
(24,780 posts)than there ever was over the SCOTUS decision on pre-clearance in the Voting Right Act, or even what was being done to the NLRB, to name just a couple of real and seruous occurring issues The VRA issue and NLRB are things that are right here, right now tangible and happening. Whether or not we go to war or not was nothing more than emotional discussion; and all the while our rights were actually being taken away.
When the far left starts giving these things more than just a shoulder shrug, I'll start taking them seriously. Meanwhile, the rest of us are in the fight for these things.
Please don't go all victim thinking this is bashing the far left. And don't start proselytizing about how the far left eternally has the moral high ground because they get it and everyone else does not. All that is very old now.
JI7
(89,182 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)JI7
(89,182 posts)but i think it's a mistake to assume those who claim to be the left are the left for the reasons the poster gave.
there is a reason why there were more threads comparing snowden to MLK than there were on the voting rights issues.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)and we expect Dems to fight them on it. And we DON'T expect Dems to start more wars. Is this really that confusing?
Gman
(24,780 posts)So you leave it to someone else because its not that important to you? That's the problem.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Skittles
(152,967 posts)f*** all the nitwits
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)historical vacuum...they chose a literal, historical act of what was likely at the time in Boston, to be treason to the status quo/Brits. These were not of the "chattering classes"...then or now. Even today, the old style Republican Party quakes in their sights.
If anything, we proud Leftist Liberals should rename ourselves to something equally historical and confronting. I resent the "idealist" put down. These are not Ideals and we are not Swooning Idealists. Idealism is a misplaced excuse and/or suggestion for the term Utopia.
A mere lack of poor children and families going hungry is not Utopia. Utopia would be a hot, steaming, nutritious plate of high-quality food available whenever needed.
Preventing sinking labor unions and shoring up unrestrained under-employment is not Utopia. Utopia would be a strong union, laws on pay equality, a safe job for all who would work and wages that would support a family.
Corporate Executive pay over 200 times greater than worker pay is not Utopia. See above.
I could go on...these are not vague, pie-in-the-sky, touchy feely Ideals. They are basic human rights and that's what we fight for. And the louder the better.
We need a few Mother Joneses. I hope someone will post her photo...it belongs along side Martin Luther King.
"I would fight God Almighty Himself if He didn't play square with me."
"I'm not a humanitarian. I'm a hell-raiser."
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mary_harris_jones.html#9cA8fOUky1HjOCY6.99
ancianita
(35,816 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)War Horse
(931 posts)It's a shame that DU is so divided. I kind of get it on domestic issues (at least I think I do). But when Obama is portrayed as a war monger and a PNACer I have to wonder. He seems like one of the most reluctant war mongers in my lifetime.
I say this as an outsider looking in. I'm a Social Democrat who voted Labour in the last election (Norwegian election).
Sorry for barging in like this, as an outsider.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)the authoritarians on this site any longer.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Since it seems they alone are the reason for their own downfall.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)and authoritarians try to keep everyone divided.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)nt
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Just lemme know.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)about the needy hard working poor people and the striving.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)However, if centrists care as much as liberals, why would help for the needy and poor be higher if liberal ideas are implemented versus centrist ones?
ancianita
(35,816 posts)striving, either. They provide creative solutions, not profitable or expedient ones.
Maybe others need to recognize THEIR importance.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)brooklynite
(93,878 posts)YAWN! Boy, that "nobody can criticize the President" cliche gets tired quickly.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Like forever...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)'stuff' happened then or perhaps some Americans can be expendable for the win
judging from that we'll be waiting a long time a very long time
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)(That's the correct spelling, by the way)
Let America Be America Again by Langston Hughes
Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.
(America never was America to me.)
Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.
(It never was America to me.)
O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.
(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free."
Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?
I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.
I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one's own greed!
I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.
Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That's made America the land it has become.
O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home--
For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
To build a "homeland of the free."
The free?
Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we've dreamed
And all the songs we've sung
And all the hopes we've held
And all the flags we've hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay--
Except the dream that's almost dead today.
O, let America be America again--
The land that never has been yet--
And yet must be--the land where every man is free.
The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.
Sure, call me any ugly name you choose--
The steel of freedom does not stain.
From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
We must take back our land again,
America!
O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath--
America will be!
Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain--
All, all the stretch of these great green states--
And make America again!
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)I don't work for ideals...I work for concrete results, even the small or seemingly insignificant. At the end of the day, I work for human rights that they be realized in practice and ultimately legislated,
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)I hope you're not going for results without ideals. Because we can have all sorts of results, including bad ones.
You never know how much you can achieve, till you try.
My complaint with the current crop of Democrats is they don't try, except for the small things. They don't act tough, except in showing how much they can beat up on their friends and allies.
I'm looking for people who can stand tough against the really loathesome characters that have been spewing their garbage since Reagan. I'm looking for those who can correct, through words and actions, all the incorrect ideas that go around as knowledge in this country.
Barack Obama could be that man. In my opinion, he has not been that man just yet. And I'm not sure he ever will be.
But I'm infinitely hopeful. Yes, I believe that high principles work. Because people, in their heart of hearts, believe in them too. You never know how close to your ideal you can get, till you try. You never know how fast things can change, because when they reach their tipping point, they change really, really fast. In spiritual terms, even the stubbornest wrong can be righted in an instant.
I know that in my work as a Film Editor. I know that in my work in life.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)And it always comes slowly. Just ask the Grand Canyon - it took more than ten million years to form, and it still doesn't have a guarantee of equal pay or private health insurance backed by taxpayer dollars.
We are so, so fortunate. People really have no idea.
Regards,
Third-Way Moderate Manny
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)BrainDrain
(244 posts)No one is immune to the eyes of truth. No one.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)What good did that do us? It ain't like this administration did a 180 over gay rights or anything.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Yet we don't take credit for ACA or we don't take credit for the NSA still operating.
Let's be realistic. We're nothing on the scheme of things. Syria happened due purely to caprice. The ACA happened due to massive compromises. And the NSA still operates because no one gives a fuck what we think.
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)and yet each day we get up and try and chew thru our restraints......wether it is e-mailing our congressman,informing a neighbor,supporting a favorite progressive web site or collecting signatures for a progressive candidate... we keep trying
as long as we are working toward that"more perfect union",the dream of citizens governing themselves is not dead
randr
(12,408 posts)And if we don't, we risk becoming the toadies that support our opposition
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)My but aren't we humble? Well, at least you're (somewhat) honest in that you use the term idealist.
Frankly I say keep pounding out the screeds and raising the hue and cry if anyone drops the word "compromise" or "incremental". I mean, go nuts!
Cross-dragging, pontificating and self-congratulatory posts are just what we need! And I say let's see more of it! Finish the take over of DU and any other forum you all powerful, getting-shit-done idealists can manage to subvert! Go to it and don't stop, ever!
That way, when we go out into reality to get shit done, we won't be tripping over you.
Rock on mighty keyboard commandos, rock on!
Julie--who often wonders how many posts on DU are typed with one hand...
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Interpret people back to themselves so that you can laugh at them. Don't take them at their word. Take them at yours.
And when will it be, again, that are you going "out into reality to get shit done"? I don't know about the other idealists, but I'd like to learn how you do that.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)ask BHO, you know, the guy who asked we keep his feet to the fire.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Well Done!
DURec!
[font size=3]"A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus."[/font]
-Rev Martin Luther King Jr.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
drynberg
(1,648 posts)I even imagined living in a first amendment republic, that some call a "democracy"...silly me.