Protesters Creatively Expose Obama's Secret Trade Deal that Would Give Corporations Immense Power

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/activism/activists-protest-trans-pacific-partnership-dc

Imagine a law that would allow corporations to sue countries whose labor laws, environmental legislation or food safety regulations result in a loss of profit. Well, it has a name: the Trans-Pacific Partnership. This agreement would further undermine the last traces of our democracy by allowing corporate power to permeate through various areas of our society.

And it’s all being negotiated in secret. About 600 representatives of corporate-interest groups, including Walmart, Monsanto, Chevron and Halliburton, have been advising the White House on the new agreement. Meanwhile, Congress has been completely left out of the matter, and now corporations want to “fast track” the legislation in order to quickly make their dreams come true. This process, known as Trade Promotion Authority, allows the president to sign legislation into law without congressional approval. Congress will then only get to weigh in with an up or down vote on the matter, without expert testimonies, hearings or opportunities to make amendments. This could all happen within the next few months.

That’s why dozens of activists recently took to D.C.’s streets to raise awareness and protest these shady dealings. On Sunday, the activists, which included members of Flush The TPP, Backbone Campaign, Veterans for Peace, CODEPINK and Earth First!, dropped banners on the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, which advises Obama on trade policy.


The banners read “Corporate Coup Against the People and Planet,” “Democracy, Not Corporatocracy” and “Transparency: Release the Text:”




On Monday, protesters continued their actions by marching nearly three miles in a “fast track” train.

[dipsydoodle]

1. K & R

.

[Berlum]

2. Stop corporate OCCULTISM. Release the text,

The citizens of the world have a right to know what the Corporations are planning to do to them.

Occultism, Inc is evil. What are they hiding?

[Enthusiast]

24. They are discussing this on the Ed Show right now.

I expect MSNBC to slap Ed down. He will be conciliatory or end up like Olbermann.

[Scuba]

3. Thank you protesters!!!

[Lefta Dissenter]

51. The man in the hardhat

being interviewed...

One of Wisconsin's own Veterans for Peace! He'd better make it back here in time for his court dates for singing in the Capitol!

[Scuba]

76. Thank you man in hard hat!

[cui bono]

4. Now this is just the kind of counterproductivity this lefty can get behind!

[bemildred]

5. No more secret trade deals.

If they can't sell it in the full light of day, they don't get to sell it.

[JohnyCanuck]

6. Harper's corporate friendly gov't keeping Canadians in the dark over the TPP as well.

Calls for TPP transparency grow louder at home and abroad

NDP Trade Critic Don Davies (pictured) is asking the Harper government to give MPs the same access to the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiating text as U.S. Members of Congress have. Meanwhile in Malaysia, the government is feeling increasing pressure from right- and left-wing opposition to be more forthcoming about what is being discussed behind closed doors. Even The Economist is worrying that unless the 12 negotiating countries involved in the TPP come clean, they risk alienating any possible public support for the deal when or if it is ever concluded.

"The TPP is a sweeping agreement covering issues that affect many areas of Canada's economy and society -- including several areas of policy that have never been subject to trade agreements before," said Davies in an August 28 press release. "By keeping Parliament completely in the dark on negotiations the Conservatives also leave Canadians in the dark and, for an agreement of this magnitude that is abnormal and unacceptable."

The NDP critic says if U.S. politicians can see the agreement as it looks to date, there's no reason Canadian MPs shouldn't be able to as well. It's hard to disagree with that. Almost immediately, OpenMedia.ca issued a statement congratulating the NDP for its position.

snip

Following this 19th round of negotiations, things may go completely dark as TPP countries move to smaller, completely inaccessible inter-sessional discussions on specific chapters. There's one happening right now in Ottawa, on the labour chapter. Others are slated for various TPP countries throughout September. The Council of Canadians and its allies in Canada and globally are committed to strengthening calls for total transparency -- the public release of all TPP negotiating chapters -- and a greater public and parliamentary role in developing trade and investment policy that benefits everyone, not just multinational corporations.

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/council-canadians/2013/08/calls-tpp-transparency-grow-louder-home-and-abroa

d

[Enthusiast]

25. PLUS ONE! nt

[postulater]

7. Trying to think of something more un-democratic

Than this brutal anti-people, anti-environment secret agenda.

Can't.

[pampango]

8. If there are no enforceable standards for labor rights and the environment, I will agree.

Without such new standards, the current WTO rules which make no provision for labor rights or environmental protection will remain in force.

...the negotiation is subject to the U.S. domestic politics. At the very beginning of the negotiation, the United States reminded other countries that the U.S. Congress would not accept a TPP without strong labor and environmental measures. Obviously, the United States aims to lower the comparative advantages of developing countries so as to create more job opportunities for itself.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90777/8113289.html

[postulater]

10. I hope Congress holds to that.

[Enthusiast]

22. The TPP will be no good even with labor and environmental standards.

Because these standards are never enforced. There is no mechanism for enforcement and there will be none. This is why they are trying to enact these deals-to gain even more of an advantage over environmentalists and labor rights activists.

Look at NAFTA. We were insured that there would be strictly enforced labor standards and environmental guidelines in place. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

30. Without enforcement, the standards are meaningless. Worse, in fact.

Makes a mockery of them.

[pampango]

77. Most (all?) trade agreements have not had labor and environmental standards so there was nothing

to enforce.

There are effective enforcement mechanisms in these agreements. (That's why you hear complaints that our national sovereignty is being diminished when an international body rules against us.) They just have not applied to labor rights and the environment because they were no such provisions in them.

"Look at NAFTA. We were insured that there would be strictly enforced labor standards and environmental guidelines in place. Nothing could be further from the truth."

You are right. NAFTA is an example of a trade agreement with no labor and environmental standards. If the TPP does the same (or if the "pretty words" are there but no effective enforcement mechanism), it should be rejected. If TPP has them (granted, a big IF), since Canada and Mexico are part of it, NAFTA is effectively upgraded.

The current trading system governed by the WTO, NAFTA and our other trade agreements does not have provisions for labor rights and environmental standards. The only way to get to one that does is to negotiate with other countries. It is a messy and frustrating process but better than the alternative of leaving the current system in place.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

9. Here's a defense: If Obama only knew, he would do something. Why aren't his aides telling him?

Or do the Obama defenders have a better defense?

[a2liberal]

11. They won't respond to these threads

Unless it's with links about some completely unrelated good thing that he's done

[Enthusiast]

26. It's hard to defend the indefensible........nt

[ConservativeDemocrat]

39. Sure I will.

1] There is broad acknowledgment that the TPP is being negotiated in a more open fashion than any previous trade agreement has been.

2] It still is being negotiated.

3] The reason for the "secrecy" is simply because of all the screaming that any sort of deal entails. Almost inevitably, a trade deal causes some special interest to lost a cushy gig engendered by tariffs, and you can get into a huge pissing match when they find out.


If you think trade is a bad thing, I suggest you go live for a month or two buying absolutely nothing made outside of the U.S. Oh, and deduct from your salary the percentage of overseas sales your company (and your customer's companies) make.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Fumesucker]

42. Do you think NAFTA made the median American better off or worse off? n/t

[ConservativeDemocrat]

43. Depends on if you correctly define the term "American"

In Mexico, for latin Americans , inequality, which had risen up until NAFTA was introduced, has fallen dramatically, despite the US recession. In the last decade alone, rural farmers have enjoyed 5% annual increases in their wages, compared to much smaller gains for higher income Mexicans.

For the U.S. workers, especially manufacturing workers, NAFTA hasn't helped - although much of the blame for job losses should really be laid on the Chinese. I remember, in particular, when I was in Mexico that Mexicans were getting upset because even though their wages were dramatically lower, they still had tons of Chinese imports.

Regardless, I'm not sure why you're bringing up NAFTA. This is what Obama had to say on the issue:

(Reuters) - Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama assured U.S. trading partners on Sunday that he did not oppose free trade despite making increasingly critical comments about multilateral deals such as NAFTA.

...

Asked how other countries should interpret his position, Obama responded that he supported free trade but wanted it to be fair.

"What the world should interpret is my consistent position, which is I believe in trade," he said after meeting with workers at a manufacturing plant in Ohio.

"I just want to make sure that the rules of the road apply to everybody and they are fair and that they reflect the interests of workers and not just corporate profits."

Now if the TPP actually does that, you have a right to complain. But don't go whining UNTIL that happens.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Fumesucker]

44. No complaining until it's too late to do any good

Got it.

[a2liberal]

45. Of course

That's a standard excuse of the "reality" based community. Then later it's "why didn't you say anything before?" They also will be happy to come up with senseless propositions like "now that we've destroyed American manufacturing with free trade and you can't buy American products anymore, you should try living without imported products if you think trade is bad" (since I know how much they love those...)

Oh and they'll post quotes from the President saying he was opposed to NAFTA while ignoring the fact that his economic advisor told Canada the truth that the comments were "more reflective of political maneuvering than policy."

(and if you're wondering why I replied to you it's because I don't like engaging the people who make these ridiculous statements directly but do like ranting about it )

[sabrina 1]

49. Lol, once I see the 'reality base community' I know what to expect and I am never disappointed.

That brings back memories of when we realized how infiltrated the Dem Party has been for the first time. Complete with the Think Tank talking points we used to associate only with the far right. 'Reality Based Community' being among those talking points/phrases, specifically designed to 'put down the Left' btw.

It has failed as the Left will never shut up, no matter how hard they try. And over time, as history shows, it is the ideas of the Left that have prevailed and made this a better country and world. But they sure do fight hard to prevent those great strides forward every time. Including the grade school name calling and silly talking points.

[NealK]

46. Yep.

Those Proud Members of the Reality Based Community sure know what's best for us.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

47. If you cry wolf about make up in your own little mind...

...instead of facts, then people will get in the habit of ignoring you.

Which is something the Tea Party is also finding out, by the way.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[sabrina 1]

50. That is good advice, I hope you take it! n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

72. Zing!

[Fumesucker]

52. All I did was ask you a simple question about your opinion on something

Now I'm crying wolf?

[NealK]

56. Those proud members...

often sound like they live in an Alternate Reality.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

57. You built up a strawman to argue against...

No one is saying you can't get all upset if President Obama really does negotiate a TPP you don't like. But the time to campaign is when the TPP is actually finalized and comes up for ratification in the Senate, where (even if turns out to be perfect from a liberal perspective) it would face an uncertain future due to relentless GOP obstructionism.

Trite little mischaracterizations such as "No complaining until it is too late to do any good" drains what little credibility you have.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Fumesucker]

60. After your OP some days ago that built a straw Brobdingnagian you talk about straw men?

That's quite rich.

The fact that corporations are considered stakeholders and have a seat at the table and labor and the median American are not considered stake holders and do not have a seat at the negotiating table lets us know what the general thrust will be.

Ross Perot was right about NAFTA and I'll positively flabbergasted if TPP isn't at least as bad for Main Street USA.

And why do I get the impression that no matter what is in the treaty you will be here to tell us how great it is and how we are all counterproductive left wingnuts for not praising it sufficiently and failing to genuflect deeply enough?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

61. You are obviously unclear on the concept of a "straw man"...

...which is fallaciously imputing positions to others since you are unable to dispute their actual statement.

My OP outlined counterproductive behaviors. It made no factual assertions about what positions were acceptable or not, much less make any false positions imputed to anyone. Unfortunately, I still see these behaviors exhibited widely in the DU (and more than a few in this very thread), but at least I've done a service by pointing them out.

Again, to repeat myself, if you felt I was describing you in that OP, then it's not me that's accusing you, it's your own conscience. And maybe you ought to think about that.


I'm also not going to tell you not to feel what you feel. But if you think free trade is a bad idea, then you should just come right out and say so, and give explicit reasons why - not hide behind childish insults and accusations based on your feelings of what my future position will be.

Believe it or not, I will be also taking a hard look at the particulars of the TPP when it's done, and deciding then whether or not to support it. But Perot's "great sucking sound" (and thinly disguised anti-hispanic bias which it sounds like you are in favor of) never came to fruition. It was largely Asia, China in particular, who devastated U.S. manufacturing - no trade agreement required (but lots of cheating, poor quality goods, and nonexistent environmental protections). Mexico hardly made a dent.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[sabrina 1]

81. I get it. In the 'reality based community' you wait to express your objections until after

everything is a done deal!

Wow! Do you know how often people who have to make business deals every day pray to their gods that they will walk into meeting to try to get a deal and meet someone from the 'reality based community' instead of those they actually meet in Real Life?? The kind that believes that the time to negotiate is BEFORE the deal is done??

Can you represent the next person I have to make a deal with???

[ConservativeDemocrat]

84. Not to put too fine a point on it...

But using RTFL icons instead of actual fact-based arguments, and misrepresenting other people's positions, were two behaviors that I specifically pointed out in my "Counterproductive Wingnut' OP. You might want to think about that.

After the TPP is "done" it needs to be ratified by the Senate. In the business world, this is kind of like taking the deal you've negotiated to the Board of Directors to actually get the two businesses to agree to the terms. There's no point in telling a board that they're getting a lousy deal when the terms haven't even been finalized yet. But if they don't like the deal, then it's off.

Let me also point out that in the real world, many businesses try to negotiate win-wins. That you imagine that all negotiations are just grifting hustles shows volumes about what you do and do not know about real business.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[sabrina 1]

85. In the real world, here in the US, Congress is the LEGISLATIVE BODY. Corporations have no role

in the writing of laws according to our Constitution. When the people learn that Foreign Corporations are writing our laws and that our Reps in Congress are being told to STFU when they dare to ask for information on what laws are being written that they have not been informed about, then it is time to do something about it.

You may be fine with Foreign Corps writing our laws, but you are seriously in the minority on this.

I don't read OPs that trash Democrats. Not my thing. Personally I ignore them as they are boring to me, since I have seen it all before and know what to expect so why waste time on what is so very old and so very predictable.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

86. Treaties are negotiated by the Executive, and ratified (or not) by the Senate

And treaties being negotiated in secret is a tradition going back to both Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.

The rest of your post is pure wharrgarble. Argument by (false) assertion.

As far as "you don't read OPs that 'trash Democrats'", that is hilarious, given your penchant for writing them.

Seriously Sabrina, you're embarrassing yourself at this point. You should quit while you're behind.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[daleanime]

55. You have make-up in your mind?

Are you sure your 'Reality Based Community' isn't chemically altered?

[Th1onein]

68. Stop putting people down with your insults.

[BillyRibs]

48. - C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

and the 1%! Good for you the hell with the rest of us. Now go cry to the monitor!

[Doctor_J]

62. quoting candidate Obama on any issue is not fair

The whole campaign was bullshit.

[uponit7771]

74. +1

[Th1onein]

67. BS. When the Prez can negotiate a trade deal without input from Congress, we have no represenation.

And people squealing? That's part and parcel of a democracy. Who you think you're kidding?

[Rilgin]

78. Which is it an "Open Method" or "Secrecy" Please pick one.

Please explain how the TPP can both be negotiated in a "more open fashion" (see your paragraph 1 above) and the "secrecy" is totally justified (Paragraph 3).

You seem to want to have it both ways. Is it open or secret. If it s open, you do not have to justify its secrecy. If it is being negotiated in justifiable secrecy, you do not have to state its being negotiated in an "open fashion".

[Hydra]

18. What the poster above me said

I've never seen ANY of the usual suspects in TPP threads. You'd think this was a different website when we talk about this.

If this passes as they want it too, you may as well stop voting. Anyone in the WH and Congress will have less power than a corp like BP or Enron.

[Junkdrawer]

29. And they said "It couldn't be done"....

See Post #28

Where there's a will there's a way.

[Overseas]

12. K&R. Yes please!

[grahamhgreen]

13. Thank you:)

[AtomicKitten]

14. and who played a leading part in drafting the TPP? Hillary Clinton

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=67554

[Waiting For Everyman]

16. Thanks for posting, I didn't see that before.

That is gross.

[AtomicKitten]

41. de nada

Gross it is.

[rhett o rick]

15. k&r thanks for posting. nm

[bvar22]

17. DURec!

Last edited Thu Sep 26, 2013, 08:15 PM - Edit history (1)

Stop the TPP/TTIP.

TTIP=The Transatlantic Free Trade Area (TAFTA) or Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) is a proposed free trade area between the United States and the European Union.

TPP=Trans-Pacific Partnership is a proposed free trade agreement under negotiation by (as of August 2013) Australia, Brunei, Chile, Canada, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States, Vietnam and South Korea.



Sorry, Virginia.
But there is no such thing as "Free Trade".
There is no such thing as a "Free Market,
and there is no such thing as an "Invisible Hand".
The rich people who own the corporations and hate Organized LABOR and Environmental Protections [font size=3]Made That Shit UP[/font] so they could Bust Unions, dodge Environmental Protections, and get more money for themselves.
They used smooth talking politicians and Glossy Madison Avenue Marketing to sell their SCAM to a gullible America.


Capital (Money) will ALWAYS be able to outrun LABOR, Human Rights, and Environmental Protections unless they are restrained by Regulations and Restraints imposed upon them by Governments representing The People & their Rights.

It takes YEARS, even Decades (or longer) for LABOR, Human Rights, and Environmental Protections to:
*Define and document Rights Transgressions

*Organize and Publicize the Problem

*Petition the Governments for Protections, Remediation, and Compensation

*Additional YEARS to force Government to respond

*Additional YEARS top get legislative protections enacted

*Additional YEARS for Remediation/Compensation to be awarded and enforced.

This is NO MATCH for High Powered Corporate Boardrooms,
who can be safely on the ground and operating in another country long before Human/Labor/Environmental Rights Groups can begin to advance their causes.

Money can pack up and move overnight to a new country with a corrupt government glad to sell their people into Slave Labor for a few Million in bribes, and, sadly, this World will never be short of corrupt governments begging for Corporate Money.

[font size=3]
Ross was RIGHT!!!

Ross was right,....but 3rdWay Bill was smoooooth.[/font]


Fool us once, shame on you.
Fool us again, shame on us.
Stop the TPP/TTIP,
and renegotiate ALL current "Free Trade" Treaties [font size=3]IN PUBLIC[/font] on a bi-lateral basis
with priorities for Organized LABOR, Human Rights, and Environmental Protections.





You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[Uncle Joe]

34. Precisely, "you have to know them by their works" and Perot was in favor of NAFTA before he

ran for President, he also believed that it was perfectly ok to own his own private "free trade zone," monopoly.

You have to go to YouTube's site and scroll to about the 3:50 mark on part 4 of the Gore/Perot NAFTA debate, when we place the link or embed here, they disable it.

Perot also said NAFTA wouldn't help the Mexican People, contrary to Perot's assertion Gore was also right in that NAFTA would help Mexico evolve way from being dominated by an authoritarian PRI government to a more democratic model, it still has a ways to go but there has been progress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico

Mexico has one of the world's largest economies, and is considered both a regional power and middle power.[18][19][20][21] In addition, Mexico was the first Latin American member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development OECD (since 1994), and considered an upper-middle income country by the World Bank.[22] Mexico is considered a newly industrialized country[23][24][25][26] and an emerging power.[27] It has the fourteenth largest nominal GDP and the eleventh largest GDP by purchasing power parity. The economy is strongly linked to those of its North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) partners, especially the United States of America.[28][29] Mexico ranks sixth in the world and first in the Americas by number of UNESCO World Heritage Sites with 32,[30][31][32] and in 2010 was the tenth most visited country in the world with 22.5 million international arrivals per year.[33]

(snip)

In December 1994, a month after Salinas was succeeded by Ernesto Zedillo, the Mexican economy collapsed, with a rapid rescue packaged authorized by the U.S. President, Bill Clinton, and major macroeconomic reforms started by President Zedillo, the economy rapidly recovered and growth peaked at almost 7% by the end of 1999.[77]

In 2000, after 71 years, the PRI lost a presidential election to Vicente Fox of the opposition National Action Party (PAN). In the 2006 presidential election, Felipe Calderón from the PAN was declared the winner, with a very narrow margin over leftist politician Andrés Manuel López Obrador of the Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD). López Obrador, however, contested the election and pledged to create an "alternative government".[78]

The dynamic that has most damaged and corrupted Mexico is the insane so called War on Drugs; which hasn't helped the U.S. either for that matter.

[Enthusiast]

19. No Democrat should support this!

Not a one, ever.

We will lose our remaining manufacturing base! Imagine, even fewer jobs.

Don't tell us how wonderful the President is, we will see for ourselves.

Call the White House, tell them to stop the push for these destructive trade agreements. Call and write congress, tell them you do not want this fucking thing.

[libdem4life]

20. Just flat out depressing. Add to that there isn't a Progressive/Liberal to even get behind.

Kudos for those out there making a ruckus.

[Uncle Joe]

21. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, xchrom.

[Jefferson23]

23. NO SECRETS, citizens have every right to informed consent. WRONG to do otherwise.

How can anyone defend such a secret is beyond me.

[Enthusiast]

27. "How can anyone defend such a secret is beyond me."

This is the nature of corporate rule.

[Jefferson23]

33. We're always fighting for the most basic fundamental rights...makes me so frustrated.

Those cleared advisers on the briefing agree not to disclose details...something like 600 of them?

I don't appreciate that, and no Democratic president should be leading this effort of secrecy.
NO Democrat should defend such a thing.

[snooper2]

28. low on facts but high on outrage-

Any actual documents we can take a look at yet?

[WilliamPitt]

31. ^^^ The train that's never late ^^^

[snooper2]

32. I read the "article" at the link-

innuendo, and I see that sharp as a tack Bachloser is against it as well...

Does she have some inside info?

[xchrom]

36. In an uninformed sort of way - you have hit

The nail on the head.

[snooper2]

37. so where does the conjecture come from?

The other thread had a "list", well not really a list, but says 600 people are involved in the negotiations...

Nothing leaked yet? That has to be some kind of record-

[progressoid]

59. Where does the conjecture come from?

Maybe its the history of decades of trade agreements that feed corporations, but have done very little for the worker that makes us a little leery.

And crafting another one in secret does nothing to reassure us.

[uponit7771]

75. Obama is bombing Syria, Cutting Social Security & punching Ernie and Bert in the mouth!!

...if you're not mad you're not a true liberal!!! /sarcasm <--- cause that's needed around here

[Puzzledtraveller]

35. But we have the ball!

Whatever we do is good, you know that, if it has a (D) by it it can't be bad!

[kestrel91316]

38. Yawn. Corporations already have "immense power".

People are just now noticing??

[JackRiddler]

40. What is the function of your post?

Shameful. Let's all go home and never care again what corporations do?

[NealK]

53. So you're in favor of that disgusting deal?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

54. thank goodness for protesters!!

Speak out!

Walmart, Chevron, Monsanto and Haliburton??

[dkf]

58. While I am generally supportive of capitalism I feel queasy at the thought of no input by congress..

And more importantly we the people.

We deserve to know what we are getting in to and we deserve our say. Wth is happening to a country of and for the people? How is it we have an elite few making really big decisions?

I don't like this process one bit.

[raouldukelives]

63. The problem is it isn't capitalism.

It has evolved into something far superior. It's socialism for the corporations. Darwinian Law I suppose.
At this point, one can only choose to finance liberty or finance stock brokers.

[jsr]

64. This secretive fast-track bullshit must be stopped.

[woo me with science]

65. K&R

[AdHocSolver]

66. The TransPacific Partnership: NAFTA on steroids.

The TPP would be the "final" nail in the coffin of the American middle class.

The gutting of the last remaining influence of the middle class on the economy will see the end of democracy and its replacement with a harsh feudal system designed by the Tea Party and infused with a right-wing religious bigotry modeled after the Inquisition.

Defeating the TPP is the last chance for the middle class to save itself from powerlessness.

The one percent has already reduced the power of the middle class by seriously reducing its ability to elect politicians protective of its interests.

The "working poor" classes need to support the middle class because the progressive elements of the middle class are the only groups that support programs that provide a social safety net and maintain programs to help people gain access to the middle class (such as public education).

Aim for action and ignore all right-wing pronouncements about the economy. You can't argue with the right about economics because their pronouncements are all lies and fantasy.

Their lies consist of, but are not limited to, arguments about "free trade" and "global markets". These are meaningless terms.

The time for discussion is past. It is time to devise a defense.


As soon as anyone whips out a graph, or several graphs, run like hell. The graphs are obfuscation and are unnecessary to understand how you are being scammed.

Anyone who talks about the importance of the stock market to the economy, and maintains that a thriving stock market is important for creating jobs, close your ears and hide. These days, when a company wants to boost its stock price, they fire a bunch of people and ship the work to sweatshops in Asia.

Companies hire when they project an increase in demand for their products. In other words, they expect to increase sales. Firing people increases profits. It does not increase sales.

Don't agonize over whether chained CPI undermines the cost-of-living adjustments to programs such as Social Security. Of course it does. Moreover, the "unchained"-CPI already underestimates the considerable inflation in the U.S. economy. Just check the prices at your local supermarket and compare them to the prices of a few years ago. Not only are the prices higher, but the amount of product in the package is shrinking at the same time that the prices are going up.

The time for discussion is past. It is time to devise a defense.

[Th1onein]

69. The time for discussion is past. It is time to devise a defense.

What would you suggest as a defense?

[AdHocSolver]

87. My comments were directed at DUers who spend much time and energy beating a dead horse.

They argue details over nonsensical economic theories such as "free trade" or debate the accuracy and interpretation of meaningless graphs.

DUers will take rigid stands, both pro and con, on economic policies, such as what austerity measures should be implemented, which are nothing more than right wing talking points. The policy best suited to a recession is government spending to "prime the pump" and create economic demand.

Another policy pushed by the right wing that needs debunking is that privatization of public services such as education and law enforcement is more "efficient". Such right wing concepts are self-serving nonsense. Privatization most often leads to profiteering and corruption. Bureaucracy is bureaucracy whether corporate or governmental, and with government bureaucracies, there is at least a chance of changing management by throwing out and replacing the politicians who influence and have some control over the government bureaucracies.

What I intended by my post was to get DUers to transfer their energy and thought processes from useless banter, and start thinking of ways to turn the masses from accepting right wing talking points as valid to resisting right wing efforts to enslave them.

In other words, develop strategies to counter the right wing offensive against 99 percent of the people on this planet.

Protests are good.

Develop counter arguments to debunk right wing economic propaganda with friends, relatives, and neighbors on an individual basis. We need to set up "think tanks" to research how to promote progressive policies to the 99 percent in ways that enable them to personally relate to progressive policies in a positive way.

You aren't going to convince people of the correctness of your policies by showing them a bunch of complicated graphs and expecting them to figure out how that relates to them.

I am challenging DUers to pool their intelligence to find out what strategies have worked for them, or what strategies they think might work, to enlighten the 99 percent about the class warfare aimed directly at them.

[dougolat]

71. ++ nt

[Turborama]

70. If it's all secret how does Alyssa Figueroa know about the law she describes in the 1st sentence?

a law that would allow corporations to sue countries whose labor laws, environmental legislation or food safety regulations result in a loss of profit

[JackRiddler]

79. Since you obviously don't know, why don't you find out?

The history of leaks and other ways in which disclosures about TPP in broad outlines have been forced is on the record. So are lawmakers complaining about the continuing secrecy surrounding this treaty. So all you did was read the first sentence and attack the author as if she made it up? And you think that's awfully smart of you?

[Turborama]

80. No I read the article, thanks. But all you've done is attack me for asking a question.

Which you have failed to answer, so I'm not sure why you bothered.

[BelgianMadCow]

82. Leaked draft of investment chapter here

http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tppinvestment.pdf

analysis here: http://www.citizen.org/documents/Leaked-TPP-Investment-Analysis.pdf

[Turborama]

83. Thank you very much.

For anyone else who's interested, this is the relevant section of the analysis (on page 4):

Procedural rights that are not available to domestic investors to sue governments outside of
national court systems, unconstrained by the rights and obligations of countries’
constitutions, laws and domestic court procedures (Section B).

There is simply no reason for foreign investors to pursue claims against a nation outside of that nation’s
judicial system, unless it is in an attempt to obtain greater rights than those provided under national law.
Moreover, many of the TPP partners have strong domestic legal systems. For example, TPP partners New Zealand,
Australia and Singapore are all ranked by the World Bank as performing at least as well as the
United States with regard to control of corruption and adherence to rule of law. Yet in a manner
that would enrage right and left alike, the private “investor-state” enforcement system included in
the leaked TPP text would empower foreign investors and corporations to skirt domestic courts and
laws and sue governments in foreign tribunals. There, they can demand cash compensation from
domestic treasuries over domestic policies that they claim undermine their new investor rights and
expected future profits. This establishes an alarming two-track system of justice that privileges
foreign corporations in myriad ways relative to governments or domestic businesses.

It also exposes signatory countries to vast liabilities, as foreign firms use foreign tribunals to raid public
treasuries. The explosion in investor-state attacks has produced rising concerns. A letter signed by
former judges, law professors and other prominent lawyers from TPP nations warns: “the foreign
investor protections included in some recent Free Trade Agreements (FTA) and Bilateral
Investment Treaties (BIT) and their enforcement through Investor-State arbitration should not be
replicated in the TPP. We base this conclusion on concerns about how the expansion of this regime
threatens to undermine the justice systems in our various countries and fundamentally shift the
balance of power between investors, states and other affected parties in a manner that undermines
fair resolution of legal disputes.”3

I had a look around for news reports when this came out and this one from New Zealand is quite striking...

National Says ‘Yes’ to Investor Rights to Sue
Thursday, 14 June 2012, 8:46 am
Press Release: Professor Jane Kelsey

The draft text of the investment chapter, including the section on investor-enforcement, is undated, but is understood to be recent. A copy is here: http://tinyurl.com/tppinvestment

It confirms that National has agreed to let foreign investors like Philip Morris, Pfizer, Warners, Exxon Mobil or Microsoft sue New Zealand for damages in private offshore tribunals, claiming that new laws or policies breach their rights under the agreement.

“My preliminary analysis confirms the concerns raised by lawyers in a recent letter calling for the exclusion of investor’s rights to sue, and much more”, Professor Kelsey said.

“Philip Morris confirmed on the weekend it will use so-called free trade treaties to challenge our smoke free laws. At present, it would need to find a backdoor way to use an existing agreement. This TPP text would throw open the front door to them and all the other US firms that want to block new laws they don’t like.”

More: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1206/S00186/national-says-yes-to-investor-rights-to-sue.htm

[emsimon33]

73. This is our next big fight!...and we better win this one.