General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI would avoid a store where people are openly carrying guns
Visually, there is no difference between someone with a gun that plans to use it and someone who doesn't.
The safer thing is just to avoid them and if they are in a store or wherever, I can go elsewhere.
And while this does nothing about someone with a concealed weapon, I didn't say my act would be 100% effective, just prudent. With respect to whether one is openly carrying or concealed, I'm simply in this case, acting on the information available to me, or choosing to ignore it.
I choose to act on what I can see. So be it, in this society where shootings are a fact of life, removing oneself from the presence of an openly carried gun has some logic behind it.
djean111
(14,255 posts)So I left.
I think it is stupid to just keep shopping and hope the gun guy is not deranged or whatever.
Or hope someone doesn't piss him off or whatever.
Life in America.
Arkansas Granny
(31,484 posts)Chuuku Davis
(564 posts)Open carry is not legal in Arkansas
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Although there are some wacky state senators who are trying to change that.
Arkansas Granny
(31,484 posts)The gun nuts are getting nuttier and nuttier.
Fla Dem
(23,352 posts)tell them I'm leaving because there is person walking around in their store with a gun. No one can know how stable an individual is, what their motivations are or how they will react to any given situation. I would rather leave than find out.
tosh
(4,422 posts)seems deranged to me.
I truly don't understand it.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Too many people envision themselves as some type of rootin'-tootin', pistol-packin' hero.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)Seems to me that any guy who has to open carry his big fat gun when he goes out to buy a cup of coffee is by definition an asshole whose judgment I wouldn't trust.
I'd take my business elsewhere.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Kinda prefer concealed myself, but some controllers attach some sort of courage of conviction thingy to Open carry.
Maybe you should check with folks in Bansalot and develop consensus as to which method deserves the most character attack.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)maybe make sense next post?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)I also recommend that if you want to be seen as the tough guy you think you are:
That you not blame me for you making an argument that didn't make sense and lacked any syntax.
Remember, to serve your point of view, you must have credibility and make good arguments.
If one doesn't have those, the most they can accomplish is trolling, which of course, you would never, ever want to do in a thread about guns.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)to show your credibility, good arguments, and non-trolling skills.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and your opposition to that, as usual, puts you on the other side of opinion here.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)where I'm opposed to anyone's opinion about how to handle seeing someone open carry in a store. Anyone can handle it the way they see fit, as long as it's legal. The fact that you have to make stuff up about other DUers says a lot about your credibility. You've done it to me twice in this thread. I think it's pretty pathetic.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)consensus about all the issues we talk about here.
Will that meeting be at your house?
PS, downthread someone says he's a gun owner and would never feel the need to carry a gun into a store. You might want to check in with him and let him know what the gungeon consensus is about what gun owning folks are allowed to say about these things. Because, you know, that's how it works, right?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I merely suggested you and your cohorts come up with some kind of consensus on OC or CC so that your aspersions and insults would be more consistently aligned; in fact, some poll is going down in Bansalot now.
Frankly, this is not all that important to me, but there seems to be pointed disagreement on your side of the moat. That someone "over here" goes into a store with or without a gun doesn't elicit much desire for insult or raise much interest.
How's that poll going?
Squinch
(50,774 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)malaise
(267,833 posts)but lil dicks want to be seen.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)at the very least you could have told Publix management or call the police yourself. Personally, I would rather see open carry so I could AVOID them. You cannot avoid somebody with a gun in public when you cannot see whether they are carrying or not. Sneaky and devious, but I guess they don't want to be shunned so that is their plan.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)How about following the law?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Ilsa
(61,675 posts)BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)..people he/she would want to kill would be the people who can protect themselves/shoot back.
...therefore, the people who are trying to prove something (by carrying guns) will be the first ones to die.
I wonder if these yahoos think about THAT?
Chuuku Davis
(564 posts)That you have folks open carrying in the stores?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)in recent months, I've been in several different states and another country.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)I saw the doughy surburbanites lined up to go into Starbucks. Most people around them just stared. Some left.
Myself, I see a fool with a gun and no uniform I'm not taking any chances.
Apparently it's legal here only if the weapons are unloaded.
Link Speed
(650 posts)Who in the world thinks it is cool to tote an unloaded firearm? I would guess that it would be someone with a really fucked-up childhood/adolescence.
I am a gun owner and know many others. I do not know a single person who would carry openly.
Is that really a CA law? I live in serious Wine Country and have never seen any regular citizen (non-LEO, Security, etc.) carrying a weapon. Of course, half of us have them in our vehicles.
I am a combat vet, a gun-owner and carrier, but there is just no way I am going into any establishment (except ranges) if there is some idiot jerking off in public or someone openly carrying a firearm.
Heck, those two acts probably run parallel tracks.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)As long as they're unloaded it was legal. I agree though -- what's the point of open carry if the weapons can't be loaded other than making a statement about gun control laws?
on edit: I think this was before the law was changed in 2011.
Link Speed
(650 posts)So, it's legal to walk a round with a serious firearm slung over your shoulder.
Let some teen of color walk down an Oakland sidewalk with a baseball bat over his shoulder.
Hmmm...
Squinch
(50,774 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts)NealK
(1,791 posts)petronius
(26,581 posts)a handgun or a long gun (rifle, shotgun) whether loaded or unloaded. There are exceptions, of course - for example in hunting areas, or if you have a permit to OC - but overall it's pretty much prohibited...
On edit: the general prohibition on OCing handguns went into effect 1/1/2012; for long guns it started 1/1/2013.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)The incident I witnessed was before that law went into effect but probably not by much. I think it was two years ago.
kentuck
(110,950 posts)If they allow guns in their business, they have lost mine!!!
djean111
(14,255 posts)I am not sure any more what is legal, it seems like a shooting gallery here.
I just left because I didn't feel like getting some fucking "right to bear arms" lecture.
I mean, what if someone threatened the guy with a shopping cart.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)where open carry by the public is illegal. You probably saw an LEO. There is a current thread about a guy in bank with a gun and a bank customer screwed up when he tried to inform the teller about the guy with the gun. It turned out to be a U.S. Marshall.
djean111
(14,255 posts)It could just as easily be a nutcase. There is no way to know, without going up to a person and asking. A U.S. Marshall should be easily identified as such.
IMO the bank customer did not screw up.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)You do realize that part of their job is to capture federal fugitives?
If you read about the bank customer, he was arrested and later not charged. He screwed up. He hands the teller a note that said "man with gun". He took the note back. He said something to the teller about a gun and then left the bank. He needed to follow up. He made something that was not a problem into a huge problem for the local police and the bank.
"You know what? It doesn't matter to me."
If it doesn't matter to you, then why are you posting on this thread?
djean111
(14,255 posts)In any event, I just left, and I would just leave if it happens again.
It doesn't matter to me if the guy with a gun could be a federal Marshall - I would just leave.
That is why I am posting in this thread.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I'd continue to shop and not let anyone else bother me.
Apparently I can't use the 'H' word on DU, but the sight of a gun does not send me into fear mode.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you said it.
bank customer screwed up.
screwed up.
screwed up.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)he did not know a U.S. Marshall when he saw one. I said a bank customer screwed up when he passed a note to a bank teller with the word 'gun' on it and then took the note back and said the word 'gun' to the teller and then left the bank without explaining his actions.
djean111
(14,255 posts)I replied that this had happened to me, and I calmly left the store.
It never occurred to me that I could not make that choice for myself, don't know why it was necessary for you to say that.....
Living here in Florida, the sight of a gun sends me into fear mode. I was never much of a gambler.
And my son has PTSD because someone pointed a gun at his face and pulled the trigger - the gun did not fire, but the result was pretty bad. My son was working by himself, rehabbing an old house in Ybor City, and a guy with a gun thought that perhaps he could help himself to my son's wallet and/or tools (to pawn). So he came up behind him and said hey and when my son turned around he was looking into the barrel of a gun. When the gun didn't fire, my son ran one way and the asshole thief ran the other way. Thank goodness.
Wouldn't want to be around if a marshall was shooting at a wanted guy, either.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)LEOs records arent much better
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)is he in uniform, is he wearing a sign?
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)to be able to identify a LEO (though I believe I could). A bank customer should not give a teller a note with the word 'gun' on it, take it back, and say the word 'gun' to a teller and leave the bank without explaining his actions. Lots of attempted bank robbers chicken out midway through their attempt at ill gotten gains. It is entirely plausible that is what the teller assumed. She could not verify what happened because the hoplophobe bank customer left the bank without explanation.
(Is the use of a word as my opinion of a person in a news story an offense worthy of hiding?)
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... I complain to the management that if they do not prohibit such dangerous and asinine behavior, I will take my business elsewhere, permanently. It's happened twice. Both are restaurants and now have "Firearms are not permitted on these premises." displayed on their entrances.
Fuck the NRA.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)For those who do live in those states.. might as well let the businesses know that allowing this to occur in their stores is bad for profits.
Throd
(7,208 posts)For the record, I think the open carry zealots are just a bunch of blowhards, but I'm more worried about the person that wants to hide a gun.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)But if you think about it can go both ways. The OC folks strike as clearly more confrontational, as in "yeah, I just stepped in front of you at the check-out 'cuase I'm in a rush and mine is more important than yours, besides, see the cannon I've got got strapped to my waist? M-A-K-E M-Y D-A-Y, Mother Fucker.
UTUSN
(70,497 posts)That is, like when they realize we're staying away with cash in our pockets. Like Starbucks.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)The CEO wrote a meaningless letter designed to fake the gun-controllers into thinking he was doing something.
UTUSN
(70,497 posts)What part of "[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]request that customers no longer bring firearms[/FONT] into our stores or outdoor seating areas." and "[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]we do not want these events in our stores[/FONT]." are NOT a change of their policies (not a question).
********QUOTE******
[font size=5]Posted by Howard Schultz, Starbucks chairman, president and chief executive officer[/font]
Tuesday, September 17, 2013
Dear Fellow Americans,
Few topics in America generate a more polarized and emotional debate than guns. In recent months, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Starbucks[/FONT] stores and our partners (employees) who work in our stores [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]have been thrust unwillingly into the middle[/FONT] of this debate. Thats why I am writing today with a respectful [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]request that customers no longer bring firearms[/FONT] into our stores or outdoor seating areas.
From the beginning, our vision at Starbucks has been to create a third place between home and work where people can come together to enjoy the peace and pleasure of coffee and community. [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Our values have always centered on building community rather than dividing[/FONT] people, and our stores exist to give every customer a safe and [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]comfortable respite[/FONT] from the concerns of daily life.
We appreciate that there is a highly sensitive [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]balance of rights and responsibilities[/FONT] surrounding Americas gun laws, and we recognize the deep passion for and against the open carry laws adopted by many states. (In the United States, open carry is the term used for openly carrying a firearm in public.) For years we have listened carefully to input from our customers, partners, community leaders and voices on both sides of this complicated, highly charged issue.
Our companys longstanding approach to open carry has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws dont exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]should be addressed by government and law enforcement not by Starbucks[/FONT] and our store partners.
Recently, however, weve seen the [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]open carry debate become increasingly uncivil and[/FONT], in some cases, even [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called[/FONT] Starbucks [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Appreciation Days[/FONT] that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]disingenuously[/FONT] portray Starbucks as a champion of open carry. To be clear: [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]we do not want these events in our stores[/FONT]. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction[/FONT], including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.
For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areaseven in states where open carry is permittedunless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.
I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our requestand also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose open carry, we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion open carry, please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting[/FONT] for many of our customers.
I am proud of our country and our heritage of civil discourse and debate. It is in this spirit that we make todays request. Whatever your view, I encourage you to be responsible and respectful of each other as citizens and neighbors.
Sincerely,
Howard Schultz
*************UNQUOTE******
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)From the letter: First, this is a request and not an outright ban.
Official policy has not changed.
From the letter:
Our companys longstanding approach to open carry has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws dont exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement not by Starbucks and our store partners.
Official policy has not changed.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)do you read minds?
supporting various laws and measures to control guns is not the same as not liking open carrying in every place of business.
what evidence do you have that the people you refer to are all gun control advocates?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)manager, explaining why I had left and was calling, and then.....I YELPED the stores. Both stores later posted signs.
northoftheborder
(7,566 posts)shenmue
(38,503 posts)I just want to go into a store and get a sandwich and a drink, not worry about people who think they're in a movie fantasy or something.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)... can't get guns.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)well, no.
Throd
(7,208 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)I wouldn't.
Throd
(7,208 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)I assume for safety's sake that anyone who feels the need to OC has inferiority issues and can't be trusted. I leave.
Throd
(7,208 posts)That is why he isn't in prison right now.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Still doesn't make me think people flaunting their firearms in public are really right in the head.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)John Good was watching when the shot was fired. He was only a few feet away.
His complete testimoney is here:
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)so much for your credibility.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)If that's all you got, then you got nothing.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)I've had guns pointed at me. I'd just as soon not have it happen again.
Throd
(7,208 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)neither seems very sensible.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Mercifully, I have not encountered this here in Michigan ... we did encounter this in Virginia. Our children were young and we simply would get the hell out of where ever we were (1990s).
they are all good guys with guns until they are psychos with guns ... I don't want to be around when that happens
EvilAL
(1,437 posts)your last line.
Do you think that most gun owners are prone to become 'psychos with guns'?
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 26, 2013, 10:13 PM - Edit history (1)
To use an example from Michigan r/t to two 'good guys" with legal guns:
Pair of men with concealed-carry permits engage in shootout
this is the correct link:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/michigan-concealed-carry-road-rage-two-dead_n_3956491.html
This is the wrong link I originally posted
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/pair-of-men-with-concealed-carry-permits-engage-in-rolling-road-rage-shootout-b9953189z1-215267661.html
Both of these men had CCW permits and were considered "good guys with guns" ... until they were psychos with guns. Both are dead.
EvilAL
(1,437 posts)thing I don't understand. I remember something about 'good guys with guns can stop bad guys with guns'. Which is a ridiculous statement, but it seems like you kind of expect the 'good guys with guns' (open carrying) to have some kind of predisposition to going full psycho and shooting people. I live in Canada, we have a lot of guns, but nobody can carry them in public, so maybe I'm missing something here..
Squinch
(50,774 posts)want to make a point. They seem to all be saying that they want to "educate" the public that guns aren't something they need to fear. This, it turns out, is what the NRA told them to do.
Do you trust them? I don't know them. Maybe they haven't been irresponsible with their guns before. Maybe they have. Maybe they'll get through their Latte without shooting someone. Maybe not.
The point is that all those guys who end up shooting their foot off in line at Target consider themselves to be "good guys with guns."
EvilAL
(1,437 posts)as if they were 'showing off their guns'. Then again I've never seen anyone with a handgun at Tim Horton's either. If it was legal here to carry, I don't think it would bother me.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)Are you sure you wouldn't see it as them showing off their guns?
http://interactives.kxan.com/photomojo/gallery/8993/174463/openly-carrying-guns/group-exercise-open-carry-gun-rights/
http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-appreciation-day-newtown-starbucks-2013-8
My personal favorite was when they gathered at the Newtown, CT Starbucks to "educate" the people whose 6-year-olds were shot about how they shouldn't be afraid of guns.
Southpaw07
(82 posts)Apparently not very good shots. Also odd that only one is being charged.
Thankfully NY open carry is restricted. I am pretty sure I would leave if I ever saw anyone walking near me with a firearm.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Sorry, I got distracted and copied a link to a story I wasn't even aware of.
Southpaw07
(82 posts)Obviously no shortage of links for idiots with guns.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I wouldn't call a man who died trying to defend himself and his family a psycho.
MsPithy
(809 posts)These civilian yahoos who need to carry are idiots who think they are Harry Callahan. I will not be in an establishment with them, they are fucking dangerous.
EvilAL
(1,437 posts)yahoos?
idiots?
fucking dangerous?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Where does your department find the money?
tblue37
(64,982 posts)bullets they sprayed at the truck of the women delivering newspapers? Only one--pretty much accidentally--hit either one. Or the cops who shot at a suspect in Times Square. Their shots went everywhere. I don't remember how many bystanders ended up wounded, but of course they missed their actual targets.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)I think it was La Pierre. Anyway it was the NRA's stance that "Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun." That's a quote. It gets referred to a lot because it is so unbelievably outrageous -- particularly since those children's bodies were scarcely cold when he said it.
So yeah -- The good guy with a gun. Inquiring minds want to know how the hell is the average person supposed to tell the difference in time to not get blown to bits by the other kind of guy with a gun. The average person is not a mind reader, and psychos and criminals typically don't wear a sign indicating their intentions or drool or lurch or do anything particularly obvious. Until they start, you know, murdering people.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)that's way down the list.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)How am I to know what someone's intentions are when they walk in with a gun? How can I automatically assume that they mean me or my family no harm?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)cynatnite
(31,011 posts)and scares the hell out of me.
Maybe you're right...ignorance is bliss.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Either by taking down (easy with a pump shotgun), "packaging" in a handtruck, carrying in packs, etc. In fact, if a mass murderer approached a target in a conventional open-carry manner, he/she would likely be spotted earlier.
Stopping or ameliorating the effects of mass murders is a diff. Kettle of fish when compared with the littany of daily murders. Precautions for one only occasionally overlap with the precautions for the other.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Unless the guy with the gun were acting weird. Then I would leave.
djean111
(14,255 posts)katmondoo
(6,454 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)continue shopping. It is legal but stupid. They want attention and I refuse to give it to them.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)to figure out why he was armed. I'd continue to shop and go on my way. If the guy looked to be up to something nefarious, I'd inform the store manager and then leave. I don't believe that a man with a gun is automatticially a danger to everyone in the store.
The only stores I have been in where I have seen people open carrying a weapon on their hip is in gun stores.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)The CCW permit also allows someone to open carry. I have never seen anyone do so out in public. Like I posted, I have seen people with guns on their hips in gun stores, and nowhere else.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)got it!!!
you are so awesome. we can all ignore all guns being carried openly forever now!
you have eased our minds.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I never see people open carrying in Minnesota. The only people who can legally open carry are LEOs and CCWs. The CCWs are told to NOT open carry when they take the class to get their CCW so I don't really understand why the law is written the way that it is.
If my posts has helped to ease your anxiety over open carry, well I guess that's good for you.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)just keep on moving, keep on obfuscating, clutter up the thread with new arguments that don't make sense and when confronted on their illogic, ask what the person is talking about.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)"The greatest form of self defense is to have never found yourself in the situation in the first place".
I too would avoid anyone walking around a store with a gun.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)I remember my sensei telling us a (possibly apocryphal) story about Bruce Lee. When he was at the height of his fame, living in Hong Kong, he would frequently be challenged by others, for bragging rights I guess. On one occasion, he was accosted on a dark street. Instead of engaging, he feinted, to get the other guy on his back foot, and then ran like hell.
This was, according to Sensei, appropriate and admirable behavior.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)staplers. You never know if some psycho will burn the place down.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you are saying something you don't believe to mock most people in this thread.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I'm not mocking anyone.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)NealK
(1,791 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Response to CreekDog (Original post)
Cronus Protagonist This message was self-deleted by its author.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)NealK
(1,791 posts)cheapdate
(3,811 posts)something like 10 or 12 gun laws in the past few years. You can carry guns into parks, into bars and restaurants, onto your employer's property (whether he likes it or not), etc.
Whenever I see some fool with his gun at Publix, or Applebees, or whatever, my first thought is, what a douche. My second thought is, how fucking crazy is this douche? Is he fighting with his ex? Did he just lose his job?
Morons.
toby jo
(1,269 posts)there, hangin on the outside!".
Sooner or later, somebody'd drop it.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)well obviously it seems like a good analogy to you.
but that's your limitation.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Mr. I chose my screen name to honor Eleanor Roosevelt's gun. Not Eleanor, but her gun because when I see her, that's what most impresses me about her --her gun.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/12593500
So long and hard have the banners tried to get rid of pro-2A Democrats, so long have they tried to turn DU into a forum for anti-gun doctrine and theology, so long have they gotten special dispensation.
Could this be the end of Ricco?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Frankly, I'm more worried about getting struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear than about a random mass shooting (and rightly so). Besides that, anybody who isn't making an effort to hide the fact that he has a gun isn't really matching my "threat" profile.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)People stopping in for breakfast before they go hunting.
Now, in DC, where by definition that's illegal? That changes things. But in a place where it's legal? Meh.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the statistics say you're wrong.
you'd be right if you were in Europe or Canada, but in the United States, you are far more likely to be shot than the scenario you described.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Obviously nobody actually gets struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear, but if you multiply the probabilities out it's roughly comparable (a dozen a year).
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the game you're trying to play is to say that I said something that I didn't.
and even if we granted your ridiculous statement, there are many, many people killed by random mass shootings in the past year.
and none struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear.
so apparently you can't read and you don't really know the probabilities you want us to believe.
maybe your argument would do better if someone else makes it for you.
to preserve your credibility. well, the credibility you had.
before you went down this road.
too late. pity.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Stop trying to force my argument into being what you want it to be rather than what I'm saying.
I argued that I'm not particularly afraid of a stranger legally carrying a gun because being shot by a stranger is about as likely as, again, being struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear. The fact that you say "nobody gets struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear" tells me you haven't taken a probability class, but there we go.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)You are more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be illegally shot and killed by a person with a CCW.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)nice try.
very obvious too.
ecstatic
(32,567 posts)I wasn't born on a farm. Nobody I know hunts. I'm a city gal, and around here, guns are used to kill people. Naturally, I'm going to become extremely concerned and worried if a stranger (or a cop) with a gun comes near me.
It's true that I'm probably surrounded by dozens of concealed carriers at any given moment, but if I don't know about it, then my instinctive aversion to guns isn't activated.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)I'd try to get out of there with my grandchildren. Carrying a shotgun or handgun in their hands is not normal.
gopiscrap
(23,674 posts)petronius
(26,581 posts)business without concern. But if the person (and this applies exactly the same whether or not they had a gun) was exhibiting behavior that appeared dangerous, threatening, or erratic, I'd act - either by watching, leaving, calling security/police...
ecstatic
(32,567 posts)about this country. Most of us don't live in a warzone where we have to be armed to the teeth, with bullet proof vests on, etc. They don't understand that their actions are pushing us in that direction, because people won't want to feel vulnerable to the open carriers who are showing up to more and more places with their guns (in a time when there is a least 1 mass shooting every month).
If that's the type of atmosphere open carriers want, why not move to Afghanistan or wherever open carry is truly a necessity?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Gosh, we gunners are accused of being fearful, then I hear This? Well, I hope you sleep well tonight. I will.
Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #124)
CreekDog This message was self-deleted by its author.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I don't think I ever have.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Some stores said "leave it in the truck"; others didn't care.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)If I'm in the Sierras during deer season, maybe I have seen it and not cared.
If I was in a Starbucks in Pleasanton, OTOH, I would notice.
The assholes who do it to make a statement are, clearly, making matters worse for legitimate gun rights supporters.
It almost makes me think that they're not sincere.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)people in this thread have posted that they have seen this.
furthermore, there is among gun advocates increasing attention to these open carry type events and the talking up of the practice in general.
so this is hardly a remote possibility.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)gun. No doubts about that whatsoever.
k&r
Hekate
(90,202 posts)There's some guy in Oregon walking up and down the sidewalk in front of an elementary school carrying a rifle. When I read the article several days ago, eight different residents on that street had called the cops, and the cops had let it be known that the rifleman was within his rights to do what he was doing.
Any rational person knows that the teachers and students are being terrified by his presence. Just since 2000, and counting only those where 3 or more were killed, here's the list. Not all of these names leap out at you, do they? But enough of them are right in the front of our minds that you would think it would be understood that vulnerable people are being terrified -- and he knows it, and the cops know it. Nonetheless there were DUers in that thread who vehemently defended this behavior as his "right."
Just going through this list makes my stomach hurt.
Thurston HS Oregon,
Columbine HS Colorado,
Santana HS California,
Red Lake HS Minnesota,
Amish School Pennsylvania,
Virginia Tech,
Northern Illinois University,
University of Alabama Huntsville,
Chardon HS Ohio,
Oikos University California,
Sandy Hook Elementary School Connecticut,
Hazard Community College Kentucky,
Santa Monica College California.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
Madness.