Latest new-age hipster baby-rearing nonsense: leaving the placenta attached.

[Nye Bevan]

I thought "elimination training" (not using diapers so that the baby pees and poops all over the house) was ridiculous, but here is the latest fad to brag about to other parents at the organic wholefood cooperative:

Is this the craziest (and most reckless) birthing fad ever? Newborns left with their placenta attached for up to 10 days

When Adele Allen's family and friends arrived for a first cuddle with her newborn son, they could be forgiven for feeling a little squeamish. Although baby Ulysses was a healthy little boy, he had a rather unusual companion at night - his umbilical cord and placenta. Ulysses was six days old before he was finally parted from the, by then, rotten support system which had kept him alive for nine months in the womb.

His mother and father are part of a growing band of parents who believe that lotus birthing, the practice of leaving the placenta attached to the baby until it falls off naturally, has physical and emotional benefits for newborns.

......

'We are aware that a number of women are choosing umbilical non-severance, known as lotus birth, and this is something we would discourage,' says consultant obstetrician Pat O'Brien, spokesman for the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. 'If you wanted to pick an environment that encourages bacteria to grow you probably could not do better than to leave the placenta attached after birth. Soon after the baby is born there is no longer any circulation in the placenta, so it’s dead tissue and full of blood, making it the perfect culture medium for bacteria. Babies who go through the normal process of having the cord cut soon after the birth can sometimes develop infections in the little stump and, if not treated, these can lead to septicaemia which gets into the bloodstream, making the baby very ill. If the baby is not treated with antibiotics, usually in hospital, it can sometimes even be fatal. If the placenta remains attached, that risk of infection is greater.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2432412/The-craziest-birthing-fad-lotus-birthing-newborns-left-placenta-attached-10-days.html

[seabeyond]

1. odd. but whatever. not something the baby will deal with for life...

or even a minute. all about the parents. no health issues, who cares. not my thing for sure.

[pnwmom]

3. A blood infection would be life threatening. Why would this be any more acceptable

than any other life-threatening thing a parent chose to do to a child?

I haven't looked at any research, so I don't know how dangerous this practice could be. But I wouldn't dismiss it that cavalierly.

[seabeyond]

6. i would never choose to do something like this. if someone i knew was considering it,

i would do the very research you suggest that you have not done either.

as i say, if there is not a real threat to the baby in anyway, if i choose to not do it, i do not need to make a deal with others doing it.

if there is a health issue, that changes consideration.

i do not see how or why you felt the need to challenge my post, seeing that it is clearly said IF there is no health issue and in no ways effects the baby....

[pnwmom]

23. Why do you see my post as a "challenge"?

[cali]

4. how can you claim that? there are clearly health issues involved

with decaying tissue being attached to the infant.

[seabeyond]

7. then per my post... i would have issue with it if there is a health issue with baby. obviously. nt

[Dash87]

18. Unfortunately, many health issues could arise from this.

Dirty, decaying, blood-filled tissue is an excellent host, especially for bacteria that enjoys invading a human body.

Even a perfectly healthy baby could get sick by getting the bacteria into their bodies through their mouths / ears / nose / broken skin or rashes / etc.

This is just nasty and unhygienic.

[seabeyond]

20. and i read down below it has been going on in other cultures forever. again, i will say....

i would have to do research. i would never do, so that issue is out. if i have anyone considering it, at that point i would have to decide. i do not have to now. seeing i do not have the information to make an informed decision.

so the best i can do, with my lack of knowledge and unwillingness to educate myself properly before making a deciding claim is say.... IF there is any harm to the baby, what so ever, it is wrong. if not, then meh...

[magical thyme]

31. a lot of things have gone on in other cultures forever that lead to low infant survival rates. meh.

[magical thyme]

30. you think leaving dead, rotting tissue (aka carrion) attached to a newborn

is not important?

Read the article. The risk of septicemia is greater than removing the umbilical cord and treating the baby with antiseptic.

And the smell must be just horrendous by the time it drops off...

[kestrel91316]

35. Dead, decaying tissue needs to be removed from the body whenever it happens.

But I suppose this new fad could be a way for some stupidity genes to be removed from the pool.

[HappyMe]

2. This seems like a really bad idea.

Leave rotting tissue attached to your baby - what could possibly go wrong.

[MattBaggins]

45. Rotting tissue = gangrene

[HappyMe]

47. Yes.

Stench, bacteria..... a petri dish from hell.

[MADem]

60. Of course it's a bad idea--even a cat will chew the thing off and not

leave it on a kitten.

Only humans are so stupid!!!!

[sharp_stick]

5. Oh Dear God

some people really should not have children.

I can only imagine the stench after having the placenta rotting for 10 days after a nice summer birth.

[JVS]

8. And miss out on the Placenta stew or chili? No way!

[leftynyc]

9. Sounds like a great

way to land a horrible infection.

[WilliamPitt]

10. Placenta lasagna

is a thing that exists, is created and then consumed, by this same segment of the population.

Hand to God.

[JVS]

11. I've heard it argued that it's vegan friendly too because it doesn't require an animal to be killed.

[Nye Bevan]

13. I never feel more "old school"

than when people tell me about this kind of stuff. I saw the placentas at my kids' births but really had no wish for any further involvement.

[WilliamPitt]

15. The doctor told me about that one in the delivery room.

I almost jumped out the window.

[seabeyond]

17. so much of my adult, and especially my parenting, were drawn from "old school".

and it was not that old. my parents were the 60's-70's. pretty balanced and open. i stick with that when i need to fall back with the new. though, some new are pretty obvious. this being one. and the lasagna. never heard of that one either. kinda along the line of breast milk icecream. get real.

[Dash87]

12. Ugh... That's disgusting!

[Tree-Hugger]

14. Nothing new

I disagree with the practice. However, it's no where near a new thing. This is practiced by some indigenous cultures in the world and typically carries a religious significance.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

16. I guess it wouldn't be a cultural revolution if we weren't turning in circles.

[jeff47]

29. About a 30% childhood mortality rate isn't new either.

The fact it's not new doesn't mean we should go back to it.

Even dogs and cats know enough to chew off the umbilical cord.

[magical thyme]

33. also horses. we're probably the only animals that leave it attached to potentially kill the baby.

[Redford]

67. Horses don't chew off umbilical cords, for the record

They break naturally when the mare gets up after delivering her foal. A good breeder will dip the foals stump in an antiseptic solution to ward off septicemia.

[magical thyme]

68. well, at least they don't stay attached!

[Tree-Hugger]

37. Not my point

My point is that it is not a new fad. It's been going on in Western society for some time, lifted from other cultures.

I believe other primates do not practice cord severance. I could be wrong entirely, but I remember reading it in a few places.

While I do not support the practice, I don't think it's as much of an infection risk as one would naturally assume. I do, however, completely support delayed cord-clamping, which is becoming more and more common in hospitals throughout the country as evidence indicates a benefit to refraining from a quick snip of the cord. Still, delayed cord clamping means you wait a few more minutes, until the cord stops pulsating or the placenta is delivered, rather than dragging your cord and placenta around for a few days.

I think it is harmless to the baby in the vast majority of cases, but not something that provides big health benefits. I think there areis some parents like to think, "ooooh we're so spiritually aware and that makes us better than you...."

[Pretzel_Warrior]

19. Gross. A new episode of Portlandia

[foo_bar]

27. I dunno, "new-age hipster" is kind of an oxymoron

I guess I've known a few "hipsters" (whatever that means) that graduated to non-ironic hippiedom, and I suppose placentas could be steampunk in some alternate timeline, and there's some crossover potential when it comes to pickling beets or putting birds on things, but... I blame Judd Apatow in any event (http://tinyurl.com/kdrma7l)

[Avalux]

21. Is a lack of logical thinking (critical thinking?) a trait of a hipster?

Not that I even understand the label....what is a hipster anyway?

My 21 year old daughter tells me hipsters are wanna be indies, or posers; materialistic and not well grounded in reality.

I think this article may be evidence of that.

[MADem]

61. People confuse them with "hippies" but it's not the same thing.

Hipsters have irritating mannerisms, and are annoying and didactic and trend following when it comes to their things, their beliefs, their clothing, hair styles, and their way of doing stuff....while hippies will usually share their weed with you.

[Inkfreak]

66. I'm going to steal this post. Made me laugh so hard. (nt)

[enlightenment]

22. And when the first

baby dies of a massive infection from being left attached to a rotting hunk of tissue? Do we get to charge these idiots with manslaughter or are we just supposed to feel sorry for them because of the "tragic accident"?

[Robb]

24. A chef I used to work for had a great story.

It's best when he tells it, of course, but this will have to do:

On the side, he would sharpen knives for regular customers. One comes in to pick up his knives, chef shows him they are really, really sharp, tells him to let the knives do the work, etc.

Guy says "This is great. You know, we've been having a lot of trouble cutting the placenta."

Chef: "Yeah, yeah... you leave it in too long, you get that skin on top. By the way, it's pronounced 'polenta'."

Guy: "No, placenta."

Chef: "No, I'm pretty sure it's pronounced 'polenta'."

...This goes back and forth for a few minutes between the half-bright guy (who thinks he might have it wrong) and the chef (who is convinced he couldn't possibly be talking about eating placenta).

At this point in the story, the chef would have his hands in the air, saying "I say to him, for the love of GOD, tell me you're talking about POLENTA!!! POLENTAAAAA!!"

[Sissyk]

25. Are these people on crack in the delivery room?

Even at the point of delivery, your main concern is not the health of your new born. There's no way.

I thought the worse thing I'd ever read was mother's keeping and freezing their placenta for future consumption. Now, this is. This effects the health of the newborn, which is far worse.

[DGeorge]

26. Even critters know to chew off the umbilical cord. What the hell is wrong with these people?

[HappyMe]

28. There's your answer.

Not even the common sense of your garden variety animal.

[DGeorge]

32. Moronis Humanoidus

[uppityperson]

34. Forget "eww", leaving such an access for infection is really bad. Researching it...links...

While true the umbilical cord will dry up and close off the fast access for bacterial, still, there is a lot of chance for infection.

http://www.lotusfertility.com/Lotus_Birth_Q/Lotus_Birth_QA.html
Interesting info until I got to this bit

Actually not all mammals sever the cord and eat or bury the placenta! In fact, the mammals considered to
be of the highest animal intelligence, the primate chimpanzees (who are also monogamous and socially
supportive of each other), when in their native wild habitat, generally do not sever the cord, as reported by
primatologists in the 1970s. The same goes for many different kinds of monkeys. The new mothers sit with
the baby-placenta in their arms when they slowly move around a little in their retreat spot in the first day or
two after the birth, and when the cord then detaches, the cord & placenta are left on the earth and become
meat for the forest floor, and the new family swings from the trees!

Ah, no. Chimpanzees are WAY not monogamous and are not "totally supportive of each other" but have sex with whomever they can and have been canabalistic. Going on...

Q: How does Non-severance protect newborn health?

A: It ensures that an average of 100mL of precious red blood cells will transfer gently to the baby at its most
critical time of need, to contribute towards the amazing exponential brain development of the first year, and
not be disposed of or harvested due to adult well-intentioned mistrust of the infant's physiological integrity.
Emotional health of the newborn and family is facilitated by focusing on the phenomenal baby as a whole, with
no attention diverted away through adult traditions of separation. Rather than focus on cutting the cord,
fathers are able to support an uninterrupted, quality bonding with the child who is still transitioning from 9
months of gestation and gain trust in the organic rhythms of their child. For full nonseverance families, the
early days postpartum are spent simply resting and grounding, as the mother & father and Lotus babe
experience the fullness of relationship, secluded and secure at home, in fact rarely leaving the bedroom.

Cord severance is a primarily a cosmetic surgery to suit adult convenience out of habit and often ignorance,
and is rarely medically necessary (exceptions being placenta accreta or a significantly compromised mother or
baby). Though this ritual has been handed over to fathers or birth partners to carry out amidst much hoopla,
it is still an unconscious ritual that disrupts the primal family bonding focus and the unity principle of natural
design. Even babies born via cesarean, or babies who may have special needs, can be cared for with the cord
& placenta intact for an extended time in many instances, provided that parents find an open-minded OB &
Neonatalogist who is willing to explore nonseverance protocols. Non-severance can support the adaptation of
cesarean babies, as well as further infant massage.

Our babies basically have Stone Age needs for undisturbed bonding the first hour or more after birth. From a
Pre & Perinatal Psychology perspective, early cord severance is not something we are hardwired to cope with,
and indeed, early cord severance elevates infant adrenaline levels. Early cord severance was prehistorically
something probably only practiced in dire circumstances of maternal death! Virtually all undrugged babies cry
out when their cords are cut in the early postpartum time.

I agree that cutting the cord immediately after the baby emerges may or may not we appropriate. However, there is a huge difference between "cut right away" and "leave it for a week".

And how did we get from having the highest intellegence to Stone Age needs? And no, undrugged babies do not cry when their cords are cut as there are not sensory nerves in the cord.


Next link.
http://www.lotusbirth.net/index.php/care-of-the-placenta

Wait for the natural delivery of the placenta. Do not use oxytocin - this forces too much too soon into the infant and compromises the placenta delivery.
(clip)
Wrap the placenta in absorbent material, a nappy or cloth and put in into a placenta bag. The covering is changed daily or more often if seepage occurs. Alternatively, the placenta may be laid on a bed of sea salt (which is changed daily) and liberally covered with salt.
(clip)
Keep movement to a minimum.

So you don't cut the cord so the infant can get the last bits of blood (in the moments after birth) but don't use oxy as it will give something too much too soon? There is also more risk of an infant developing jaundice if the cord is not cut right away, which can lead to brain damage if severe. But jaundice is typically treated by putting them under a special light, so it is a trade off.

At least they advocate some sort of hygiene with having a big bacterial culture attached. What about that keeping movement to a minimum? Huh.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/12/lotus-birth-not-cutting-umbilical-cord_n_3072021.html

Mary Ceallaigh, a midwife, made the case to the Post that leaving the umbilical cord attached to the baby longer is a healthier choice. "There’s no wound created at the umbilical site, which lessens the chance of infection," Ceallaigh told the Post. "It allows a complete transfer of placental/cord blood into the baby at a time when the baby needs that nourishment the most. ... Not disrupting the baby’s blood volume at that time helps prevent future disease."

No, there is just a pound piece of blood filled dead meat attached. Leaving it attached longer than a few minutes does nothing to nourish the baby.

Overall, my take is be VERY VERY VERY careful and beyond 5 minutes, the only good thing I can see coming out of this is "keep movement to a minimum" which is easily enough done otherwise without risking infection and possibly death.

[Puzzledtraveller]

36. Not what I would do but I can't talk really

My fiance and I are expecting and she has already reserved the placenta because she has someone who will dry and turn it into pills. I support her on that. As far as keeping the baby attached, I would have a hard time with that but I imagine that is something that requires a degree of consensus in a relationship.

[tkmorris]

58. Turn it into pills?

What conceivable purpose would that serve?

[kestrel91316]

38. It's one thing to leave the placenta attached until it is delivered, so that the baby gets that

extra bit of blood from it. It's another thing altogether to leave it in place for days to become gangrenous.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. sometimes you open your mind so much that your brain falls out

this is one of those occasions.

SMH

[HappyMe]

42. ....

I'm going to have to remember that.

[Sunlei]

40. let it rot away! nasty!!.Mom should have eaten the the placenta & afterbirth for the hormone benefit

[LibertyLover]

41. I'll never have to make the choice

but probably wouldn't due to wanting to bank cord blood in case my baby ever needed it. I would imagine that leaving the cord and placenta attached would make that option not possible.

[Jesus Malverde]

43. A ritual for our times

Dr Sarah Buckley refers to lotus birth as "a ritual for our times," highlighting that in terms of birth practices throughout history, lotus birthing is a new phenomenon. In her article, Buckley discusses the fact that reverence for, and rituals involving placentas is nothing new. (The Placenta Benefits website also explores some of the ways different cultures honour the placenta in this article). Lotus birth, according to Buckley originates from the 1970s. The term "lotus birth" is derived from an early pioneer of the practice: Clair Lotus Day, who observed chimpanzees leaving their babies umbilical cords to naturally detach.

There are many reasons why parents might choose a lotus transition for their children (see a list here). For my family the knowledge that the cord detaches naturally was enough to question the routine severance of placenta from baby. Lotus birthing was the natural option that followed on from other non-interventionist choices research had shown us was optimal for mother and baby. (You can read our daughter's lotus birth story here).



http://www.ilithyiainspired.com/2010_12_01_archive.html

[frogmarch]

44. Holy crap! A shred of

retained placenta in the mother can kill her. Leaving the placenta attached to the baby is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.

[shraby]

46. I have come to the conclusion that yes, indeed. People are fast going bonkers.

[B2G]

48. What doctor would agree to this?? nt

[NCTraveler]

49. This is how rwingers try to make people on the left seem crazy.

"but here is the latest fad to brag about to other parents at the organic wholefood cooperative:"

They take something that is rare in this country and out of the norm like lotus birthing. They then attach it to things like organic wholefood cooperatives. Things that are normally associated with the left and beneficial to society. Therefore, lotus birthing and organic wholefood cooperatives go hand in hand.

[Nye Bevan]

50. If anything, this is a thing for rich moms.

Working parents don't have the time or energy for "elimination training" and keeping the placenta attached. It's more for rich non-working mothers who have way too much time on their hands.

[NCTraveler]

51. RW tactic, as I said.

Linking something that is extremely rare and out of the mainstream to people who go to organic wholefood cooperatives.

[Nye Bevan]

52. Right. Because 1%ers never go to organic wholefood shops. (nt)

[NCTraveler]

53. Keep adding to your distain of individuals who frequent organic wholefood cooperatives. nt.

[Nye Bevan]

54. OK, I give up. You got me.

I admit it. This thread was actually a subtle attempt to undermine President Obama and promote Ted Cruz. But you were clever enough to see right through my subterfuge.

What can I say. You got me.

[NCTraveler]

55. Never said anything about Obama or Ted Cruz.

Not sure why you would. I do question your motives behind associating people who frequent organic food cooperatives with the 1% and those on the fringe of society.

"but here is the latest fad to brag about to other parents at the organic wholefood cooperative:"

"Right. Because 1%ers never go to organic wholefood shops. "

So to recap, you are associating whole food cooperatives with 1%ers and lotus birthing. I stand by my previous posts. I wasn't looking to get you, I was just making an accurate observation with respect to the wording in your op.

[RandiFan1290]

57. Thank you for pointing it out.

It is an obvious rw tactic.

[BeyondGeography]

56. Give any "practice" a mystical sounding name

And certain people will try it.

[MADem]

59. Oh geez. It's NAAAAAAAAATURAL!!! It's ANCIENT!! Ergo, it MUST be good!

Spare me....

If you wanted to pick an environment that encourages bacteria to grow you probably could not do better than to leave the placenta attached after birth...

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Any statistics on how many people actually have done this? Four? Five?

I highly doubt it's a "fad".

[Nye Bevan]

63. The midwife quoted in the article said that out of 50 births she has attended,

20 have been "lotus style" (i.e. leaving the placenta attached).

So certainly more than "four or five".

[Warren DeMontague]

64. I don't know, I live in what is supposed to be the epicenter of kooky-dooky granola land

and I've never heard of it.

Maybe it's a British thing.

[geomon666]

65. Oh geez, it's starting

[hatrack]

69. Wait, what?