Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:12 PM

If Democrats cave now, do you really think things will ever get better?

Really?

Reversing course means first stopping the plummeting. We can argue motives, but what's happened is indisputable: For 20+ years, Democrats have been appeasing and capitulating. And the 99% have plummeted.

Appease, capitulate, plummet. Repeat.

Until we end this cycle, the plummeting continues. Does anyone think that's not true? Does anyone think that the Radical Right will suddenly become decent people who value peace, prosperity, and love for all?

A government shutdown will be painful to many, but we must not trade away pain today in exchange for far more pain tomorrow.

I ask that all Democrats, both the right and the left, join together in rock-solid rejection of negotiations. Any negotiations. No clever words, no "common sense bipartisan changes that make our government better", no nothing.

The beginning of the end of this garbage must come now.

Regards,

First-Way Manny

111 replies, 8386 views

Thread info Bookmark this thread Trash this thread

Reply to this thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

111 replies	Author	Time	Post
If Democrats cave now, do you really think things will ever get better? (Original post)	MannyGoldstein	Sep 2013	OP
I would be OK with dealing over the government shutdown	dsc	Sep 2013	#1
Sure, I don't think that's an existential threat	Recursion	Sep 2013	#4
Untrue. It isn't about "one side wants more spending, the other wants less".	delrem	Sep 2013	#20
+1	Enthusiast	Sep 2013	#40
Eggzaklee!	Scuba	Sep 2013	#41
+1,000,000,000!	lastlib	Sep 2013	#71
+1	cui bono	Sep 2013	#73
had it been Democrats creating aHomeland Security or TSA, they'd have screamed about the implication	Old and In the Way	Sep 2013	#108
Negotiation wouldn't be a problem but this is not negotiation.	Kablooie	Sep 2013	#13
And they will never be satisfied	nxylas	Sep 2013	#59
WTF are the Dems expected to negotiate on?	R. Daneel Olivaw	Sep 2013	#63
GOP	kardonb	Sep 2013	#76
Time to play hard ball with the bastards!	B Calm	Sep 2013	#2
agree!	yuiyoshida	Sep 2013	#89
Often all you can do is make things get worse by as little as possible (nt)	Recursion	Sep 2013	#3
When you are driving directly toward a cliff	quakerboy	Sep 2013	#97
Have the Conservative Democrats stepped up and committed themselves	rhett o rick	Sep 2013	#5
In all fairness	DonCoquixote	Sep 2013	#6
That's a good point. This really should be something the liberals and the conservative Democrats	rhett o rick	Sep 2013	#8
If the Dems in power can't agree on this one, they aren't worth supporting	delrem	Sep 2013	#21
+8,749	Scuba	Sep 2013	#42
Heretic! Heretic!	R. Daneel Olivaw	Sep 2013	#64
YES! YES! YES!	DissidentVoice	Sep 2013	#66
and we should not	Chaco Dundee	Sep 2013	#84
With you 100% Manny.	99Forever	Sep 2013	#7
No , I don't	Marrah_G	Sep 2013	#9
If PBO and Democrats Cave	mazzarro	Sep 2013	#10
And in some candid interview a few years from now....	beerandjesus	Sep 2013	#48
I don't want my Guv-Mint negotiatin' with terrorism, especially financial terrorism aka extortion nt	99th_Monkey	Sep 2013	#11
Obama didn't cave on Syria and he's not going to cave on this	Hekate	Sep 2013	#12
I agree. It's got to end and it should be now. n/t	pnwmom	Sep 2013	#14
By all means, let's set our our hair on fire before the fact.	longship	Sep 2013	#15
Updated post to clarify it's the real me nt	MannyGoldstein	Sep 2013	#18
At some point you have to stand up to bullies.	zeemike	Sep 2013	#16
It's a Good Cop v. Bad Cop situation Manny.	99th_Monkey	Sep 2013	#17
If the Dems cave	agent46	Sep 2013	#19
Remember this classic BBI thread? "Why the Supreme Court Should Kill ‘Obamacare’"	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#22
Um, are you saying that I said it shouldn't be upheld?	MannyGoldstein	Sep 2013	#26
The context was how long until we got health care if it wasn't.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#29
"most of the people"... "some believed"... "those people"...	MannyGoldstein	Sep 2013	#31
This is about the ACA as much as it is hostage taking.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#33
I'm proud of that post, reproduced below	MannyGoldstein	Sep 2013	#47
It's Obamacare.	ProSense	Sep 2013	#60
Good catch.	treestar	Sep 2013	#80
Couldn't agree with you more, 1st Way Manny.	jsr	Sep 2013	#23
Like a clock.	Rex	Sep 2013	#24
Right. The Republicans are like the two-year-olds who refuse to eat healthy food	JDPriestly	Sep 2013	#25
My 13-year-old still does that	MannyGoldstein	Sep 2013	#27
Wait until he is 23. He'll be a wonderful person.	JDPriestly	Sep 2013	#28
Might take until 30.	truebluegreen	Sep 2013	#55
Yep. That's about how long it took for mine.	Nay	Sep 2013	#78
I hear you.	truebluegreen	Sep 2013	#81
I've been witness to this for years	ffr	Sep 2013	#36
The DEM Party is a ruse to fool the little people into thinking they have a choice.	blkmusclmachine	Sep 2013	#30
There's an old saw - "The only reason the Democratic Party exists ...	Scuba	Sep 2013	#43
Bullshit. California is a prime example.	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#90
I presume you're suggesting the old saw is bullshit, not my claim that it exists ...	Scuba	Sep 2013	#91
Of course I am aware of that "old saw."	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#92
It's not the old saw that depresses votes ...	Scuba	Sep 2013	#94
It is not true. Period. nt	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#95
'Tis.	Scuba	Sep 2013	#98
"Tis" what? You just agreed the parties are not the same.	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#99
'Tis true.	Scuba	Sep 2013	#101
Of course we need more than unity. But your "old saw" is bullshit.	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#104
+1	liberal_at_heart	Sep 2013	#53
Do you really think Dems are the same as the GOP? nt	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#100
The party of Elizabeth Warren is not the same as the party of Louie Gohmert.	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#87
Solidarity. nt	Zorra	Sep 2013	#32
I have utter confidence that the ACA will survive.	BlueCheese	Sep 2013	#34
Winner	BrotherIvan	Sep 2013	#39
My concern exactly.	beerandjesus	Sep 2013	#49
If he gives them anything they'll be back for more.	truebluegreen	Sep 2013	#56
He has. He just said that in his statement in the press room this afternoon.	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#88
Excellent!	truebluegreen	Sep 2013	#93
I would hope that he would not bargain away SS either, through the deceptive chained CPI. The	sabrina 1	Sep 2013	#74
But only if he wants something different than the Rs want	BrotherIvan	Sep 2013	#82
Screw the GOP. If holding the nation hostage works for them, they'll do it again and again. n/t	Mister Ed	Sep 2013	#35
Precisely. Their behavior must not be rewarded.	jsr	Sep 2013	#37
If the Dems cave, things will not get better.	Jasana	Sep 2013	#38
there's been nothing in recent history to think they won;t cave.	KG	Sep 2013	#44
Caving would be a strong message to all Americans, telling them ....	Scuba	Sep 2013	#45
I'm with you, Manny	fadedrose	Sep 2013	#46
The dems have been caving since Reagan poked fun at the word liberal.	CrispyQ	Sep 2013	#50
The whole centrist mantra of 'bipartisan orgy room politics' has always left me cold.	Bluenorthwest	Sep 2013	#51
+100	truebluegreen	Sep 2013	#57
++ a million. nt	Nay	Sep 2013	#79
If the Dems or Obama give in, we'll never have the upper hand again!	Frustratedlady	Sep 2013	#52
It would not surprise me at all if the democrats took this deal.	liberal_at_heart	Sep 2013	#54
Things have gotten worse in this country for virtually every year I've been alive.	Romulox	Sep 2013	#58
Of course the media is doing it's part...	ReRe	Sep 2013	#61
Let's hope that the GOPiggies blink on this. If they don't it will indeed be painful for many.	R. Daneel Olivaw	Sep 2013	#62
The thing that makes democrats wonderful -	TBF	Sep 2013	#65
Blackmailers never stop. Give in on this debt blackmail & get blackmailed on the next debt round. nt	Bernardo de La Paz	Sep 2013	#67
The "beginning of the end of this garbage"	saidsimplesimon	Sep 2013	#68
This showdown is the redline for not only the ACA, but also…	Efilroft Sul	Sep 2013	#69
Indeed n/t	Oilwellian	Sep 2013	#72
If they cave now, there is NO HOPE for this once-great nation.	lastlib	Sep 2013	#70
If.	Ikonoklast	Sep 2013	#75
Didn't.	Bobbie Jo	Sep 2013	#110
Tears From The Democrat Bashers.	Ikonoklast	Oct 2013	#111
Isn't the problem that no one is willing to "capitulate" anymore?	dkf	Sep 2013	#77
No...	Hubert Flottz	Sep 2013	#83
Not going to happen.	MirrorAshes	Sep 2013	#85
EVER is a very very long time. I think within "ever" there could be better times.	HereSince1628	Sep 2013	#86
Im just waiting for moderate Manny	quakerboy	Sep 2013	#96
One Word - Sequestration	Nimyth	Sep 2013	#102
Welcome to DU	gopiscrap	Sep 2013	#103
Thank You	Nimyth	Sep 2013	#105
You're welcome, hope you have a good time here.	gopiscrap	Sep 2013	#106
Welcome to DU	gopiscrap	Sep 2013	#109
Caving in is what got us here. Bipartisanship requires movement by both parties...	marble falls	Sep 2013	#107

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:24 PM

dsc (51,575 posts)

1. I would be OK with dealing over the government shutdown

which is simply the budget. We should get more domestic spending, they should get their choice of tax cuts or defense spending, and we should call that a day. As to the debt limit, no negotiations whatsoever.

If Democrats cave now, do you *really* think things will *ever* get better?

1. I would be OK with dealing over the government shutdown

4. Sure, I don't think that's an existential threat

20. Untrue. It isn't about "one side wants more spending, the other wants less".

40. +1

41. Eggzaklee!

71. +1,000,000,000!

73. +1

108. had it been Democrats creating aHomeland Security or TSA, they'd have screamed about the implication

13. Negotiation wouldn't be a problem but this is not negotiation.

59. And they will *never* be satisfied

63. WTF are the Dems expected to negotiate on?

76. GOP

2. Time to play hard ball with the bastards!

89. agree!

3. Often all you can do is make things get worse by as little as possible (nt)

97. When you are driving directly toward a cliff

5. Have the Conservative Democrats stepped up and committed themselves

6. In all fairness

8. That's a good point. This really should be something the liberals and the conservative Democrats

21. If the Dems in power can't agree on this one, they aren't worth supporting

42. +8,749

64. Heretic! Heretic!

66. YES! YES! YES!

84. and we should not

7. With you 100% Manny.

9. No , I don't

10. If PBO and Democrats Cave

48. And in some candid interview a few years from now....

11. I don't want my Guv-Mint negotiatin' with terrorism, especially financial terrorism aka extortion nt

12. Obama didn't cave on Syria and he's not going to cave on this

14. I agree. It's got to end and it should be now. n/t

15. By all means, let's set our our hair on fire before the fact.

18. Updated post to clarify it's the real me nt

16. At some point you have to stand up to bullies.

17. It's a Good Cop v. Bad Cop situation Manny.

19. If the Dems cave

22. Remember this classic BBI thread? "Why the Supreme Court Should Kill ‘Obamacare’"

26. Um, are you saying that I said it *shouldn't* be upheld?

29. The context was how long until we got health care if it wasn't.

31. "most of the people"... "some believed"... "those people"...

33. This is about the ACA as much as it is hostage taking.

47. I'm proud of that post, reproduced below

60. It's Obamacare.

80. Good catch.

23. Couldn't agree with you more, 1st Way Manny.

24. Like a clock.

25. Right. The Republicans are like the two-year-olds who refuse to eat healthy food

27. My 13-year-old still does that

28. Wait until he is 23. He'll be a wonderful person.

55. Might take until 30.

78. Yep. That's about how long it took for mine.

81. I hear you.

36. I've been witness to this for years

30. The DEM Party is a ruse to fool the little people into thinking they have a choice.

43. There's an old saw - "The only reason the Democratic Party exists ...

90. Bullshit. California is a prime example.

91. I presume you're suggesting the old saw is bullshit, not my claim that it exists ...

92. Of course I am aware of that "old saw."

94. It's not the old saw that depresses votes ...

95. It is not true. Period. nt

98. 'Tis.

99. "Tis" what? You just agreed the parties are not the same.

101. 'Tis true.

104. Of course we need more than unity. But your "old saw" is bullshit.

53. +1

100. Do you really think Dems are the same as the GOP? nt

87. The party of Elizabeth Warren is not the same as the party of Louie Gohmert.

32. Solidarity. nt

34. I have utter confidence that the ACA will survive.

39. Winner

49. My concern exactly.

56. If he gives them anything they'll be back for more.

88. He has. He just said that in his statement in the press room this afternoon.

93. Excellent!

74. I would hope that he would not bargain away SS either, through the deceptive chained CPI. The

82. But only if he wants something different than the Rs want

35. Screw the GOP. If holding the nation hostage works for them, they'll do it again and again. n/t

37. Precisely. Their behavior must not be rewarded.

38. If the Dems cave, things will not get better.

If Democrats cave now, do you really think things will ever get better?

59. And they will never be satisfied

26. Um, are you saying that I said it shouldn't be upheld?