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cali

(114,904 posts)
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 08:23 AM Nov 2013

The End Of A Woman's Right To Choose. How did we lose? T.R.A.P.

In state after state, women have already effectively lost the right to choose.

Sooner rather than later SCOTUS will be hearing some vital cases.

First up:

Oklahoma's effective ban on chemically induced abortions:

<snip>

But first in line at the Supreme Court has been a dispute over whether states may restrict how doctors prescribe medications that are used to induce abortions in the first weeks of pregnancy.

The legislatures in Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio and several other states have adopted laws that require doctors to follow the Food and Drug Administration's protocols for the use of "any abortion-inducing drug." These laws forbid doctors to prescribe medications for "off-label use."

Sponsors of the laws said they wanted to protect the health of women. But medical experts and supporters of abortion rights said the laws would in effect ban medication abortions because the FDA protocol is outdated and conflicts with current medical practice.

<snip>

When doctors sued to challenge the state law, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional last year in a three-paragraph opinion. The state's attorney general appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court and argued that state judges had invalidated a reasonable law designed to regulate the safe practice of medicine.

In June, the justices took an unusual step. They tentatively agreed to take up the Oklahoma case, but first asked the state court to clarify whether the 2011 law "prohibits … the use of misoprostol in conjunction with mifepristone."

In Tuesday's opinion, the Oklahoma court said the law, as written, does prohibit the use of the second drug. It "effectively bans all medication abortions" under current practice, the court said. The judges explained that misoprostol was an abortion-inducing drug and noted that FDA had not approved its use for that purpose.

<snip>

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-court-abortions-20131030,0,5448674.story#axzz2jKZy5F42

The last major abortion case in front of the SCOTUS was in 2007. We lost. The court upheld the 2003 ban on "partial birth" abortions.

More on the Oklahoma case by Linda Greenhouse in the NYT in Sept of this year- excellent article:

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, author of the 5-to-4 opinion in June that struck down the Defense of Marriage Act, may well be a hero to the gay rights community, and deservedly so. But he’s also the author of the 5-to-4 opinion that upheld the federal ban on so-called partial birth abortion back in 2007, and abortion-rights advocates have viewed with something close to dread the prospect that he could play a similarly decisive role in the Supreme Court’s next abortion case.

That case has arrived.

It’s understandable if you haven’t heard of Cline v. Oklahoma Coalition for Reproductive Justice, which has received relatively little attention since the court accepted it on June 27, the day after the term ended. The lack of attention is itself understandable.

The case is an appeal by the state of Oklahoma from a ruling by its Supreme Court striking down a law that limits doctors’ ability to prescribe the pills used to terminate early pregnancies. The medical abortion regimen, often referred to as RU-486, was approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 2000 as a safe and effective alternative to surgical abortion early in the first trimester. It has been used since then by close to two million American women, currently about 200,000 a year out of some 1.2 million abortions performed annually. The Oklahoma law doesn’t ban the medical procedure. Rather, it requires doctors to follow the dosage and other instructions on the F.D.A. label. Viewed outside its context in the battle over abortion, the law looks perfectly sensible, a routine state regulation of medical practice. (Spoiler alert: it isn’t.)

<snip>

As abortion clinics are forced to close because of onerous state regulations (54 clinics in 27 states have closed in the last three years, and many women live hundreds of miles from the nearest provider) and as women entering clinics often have to run a gauntlet of protesters seeking to “counsel” them (in its new term, the Supreme Court will hear a First Amendment challenge to a Massachusetts “bubble zone” law that keeps speakers 35 feet away from the entrance to a “reproductive health care facility”), medical abortion offers an end-run around the obstacles that for years have been a core part of opposition strategy.

<snip>

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/the-next-abortion-case-is-here/

There are a lot of potential cases in the pipeline. TX has now moved to the top of the list. Whether Roe is actually voided within the next couple of years or not, a woman's right to choose has effectively been gutted. I think the reversal of Roe is near inevitable unless one of the right wing Justices retires or croaks. Should it be reversed, the nightmare of women losing so much ground, grows exponentially worse as state after state criminalizes abortion.

Oh, T.R.A.P: Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_laws#TRAP_laws




57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The End Of A Woman's Right To Choose. How did we lose? T.R.A.P. (Original Post) cali Nov 2013 OP
kick. why do we stick our heads in the sand on this vital issue? cali Nov 2013 #1
Maybe because it feels like we are powerless on this issue? Or this specific aspect of it? el_bryanto Nov 2013 #2
We discuss issues where we are purportedly powerless all the time here. cali Nov 2013 #3
I can't deny that. I don't know then. el_bryanto Nov 2013 #9
I think it may be because people can conceptualize what it would mean cali Nov 2013 #12
And in Texas, they're also losing the right to vote. ananda Nov 2013 #4
what's going on with women and the vote in your state? cali Nov 2013 #6
I don't know if that's a rhetorical question of if you're really asking. CrispyQ Nov 2013 #28
I was really asking. thanks. cali Nov 2013 #30
It's true in every state that has toughened the voter ID laws csziggy Nov 2013 #35
rust never sleeps. spanone Nov 2013 #5
and your point is? cali Nov 2013 #7
they never quit. they are chipping away night and day at women's rights. spanone Nov 2013 #11
got it. and they were strategic about how to damage abortion rights cali Nov 2013 #13
k&r Starry Messenger Nov 2013 #8
It is scary how fast we are regressing. K&R demmiblue Nov 2013 #10
I see a link to lots of stories but the one you copy and paste so judiciously here. sybylla Nov 2013 #14
I'm confused. I linked to the stories I pasted portions of. cali Nov 2013 #15
K&R Brickbat Nov 2013 #16
In my opinion... ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #19
I was at a party in summer of 2012. CrispyQ Nov 2013 #34
Wow - ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #41
death sentences, forced poverty, pain and suffering BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #17
I know. cali Nov 2013 #21
REALLY REALLY POOR 2010 Campaigning, Howard Dean REALLY needs to run operations at DNC, whatever... uponit7771 Nov 2013 #18
This stuff is just trivial compared to website problems. bullwinkle428 Nov 2013 #20
k and r--thank you for this very depressing, unsurprising post. the hatred for, and the war on, niyad Nov 2013 #22
I can't help but think that a lot of millennials are in for one hell of a rude awakening. cali Nov 2013 #25
+1 >this is about the oppression of the poor and lower middle class. lunasun Nov 2013 #37
I cannot believe this either... whttevrr Nov 2013 #48
40 years ago, we had no idea the battle would be harder than ever in the TWENTY-FIRST century. niyad Nov 2013 #50
I hope voter turnout changes this. whttevrr Nov 2013 #51
not soon enough to do any good for all the women who are being harmed right now. niyad Nov 2013 #52
I know... whttevrr Nov 2013 #53
Great OP cali. Thanks for this. Bookmarking nt riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #23
thank you rider. I'm glad to see this isn't sinking. cali Nov 2013 #27
When a 600-mile drive isn't considered an undue burden... n/t Bolo Boffin Nov 2013 #24
no shit. undue burden has become utterly meaningless. cali Nov 2013 #26
A large part of this is abortion will always be legal....for wealthy women. jeff47 Nov 2013 #29
so true. and abortion won't become illegal in all states cali Nov 2013 #32
Oh so so true &even many in the middle class will try and put it all on a credit card & do the same lunasun Nov 2013 #40
* ronnie624 Nov 2013 #44
30 year's ago I had a Planned Parenthood volunteer leftyladyfrommo Nov 2013 #31
I do not understand how this is continuing... whttevrr Nov 2013 #33
If a state criminalizes abortion, can a you go to another state where it is legal for the procedure? rockbluff botanist Nov 2013 #36
perhaps. one would have to be able to afford it. Many women cannot cali Nov 2013 #38
ohio tried that a few years ago, if my memory serves niyad Nov 2013 #47
You used to be able to. leftyladyfrommo Nov 2013 #39
Depends on how they made it illegal. jeff47 Nov 2013 #42
For being the party of christx30 Nov 2013 #43
K & R historylovr Nov 2013 #45
cali, I agree with your above posts kiva Nov 2013 #46
Most of the push is from the religious right. Women will be pushed into marriage for relevance. haele Nov 2013 #54
So sick of this shit. The war on women continues. nt DLevine Nov 2013 #49
this is a back door way around the Roe vs Wade ruling gopiscrap Nov 2013 #55
K&R Fumesucker Nov 2013 #56
This is about controlling people through fear. whttevrr Nov 2013 #57

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
2. Maybe because it feels like we are powerless on this issue? Or this specific aspect of it?
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 08:48 AM
Nov 2013

The Supremes are going to do what they want, unfortunately. There's no real pressure we can bring against them.

Bryant

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
9. I can't deny that. I don't know then.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 08:55 AM
Nov 2013

Certainly it seems like a pretty big step towards reversing Roe v Wade. Maybe people have a hard time conceptualizing what that would mean.

Bryant

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
12. I think it may be because people can conceptualize what it would mean
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 08:57 AM
Nov 2013

It's terrifying and I think that it extends well beyond abortion itself- as if that isn't enough.

CrispyQ

(36,457 posts)
28. I don't know if that's a rhetorical question of if you're really asking.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:59 AM
Nov 2013

The voter ID laws were recently changed & women are having difficulty at the polls if the name on their ID doesn't exactly match the polling records.

http://keranews.org/post/new-voter-id-law-forces-governor-candidate-wendy-davis-sign-affidavit-vote

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
35. It's true in every state that has toughened the voter ID laws
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:11 AM
Nov 2013

And for those which use the federal ID standards. You have to take in every piece of paperwork that proves your legal name. Birth certificates are required in most cases. If you married and changed your name, you have to take your marriage certificate to show why your name is different from your birth certificate. If you divorced or your husband died and remarried, you have to take in the divorce decree or death certificate.

The big thing in Texas is the requirement that the voter ID and driver's license match exactly. And since sometimes the individual is not given a choice in the format of the name on the driver's license, that can cause problems.

I'd have trouble in Texas even though I never changed my name. My driver's license reads First Middle Last - for everything else I use First M. Last and that is what is on my voter's card. I had no choice in the format of my name on my driver's license - that is what Florida requires to be used. The difference between a middle initial and a spelled out name could cost me the right to vote if Florida follows Texas in their efforts to block votes.

We all need to watch out for crap like this!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
13. got it. and they were strategic about how to damage abortion rights
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 09:00 AM
Nov 2013

and employed long term thinking and a two pronged approach with both outrageous clearly unconstitutional laws with cumbersome regulation.

I don't know what the pro-choice side could have done differently.

sybylla

(8,507 posts)
14. I see a link to lots of stories but the one you copy and paste so judiciously here.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 09:44 AM
Nov 2013

I presume because there are "snips" all over the place that you didn't just write this yourself. I'd love to share it if you can give me a link.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
19. In my opinion...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:24 AM
Nov 2013

it's the same people fighting the battles over and over again. The younger generation hasn't picked up the banner and joined or taken the fight. If the people this really affects - young men and women can't be bothered, I'm not sure I can be bothered any longer myself. I haven't been able to get pregnant for 30 years due to surgery. As horrible as it was, things just may have to go back to the ways of old for people to wake up. Apathy, laziness, and abstinence only programs are in great part to blame.

CrispyQ

(36,457 posts)
34. I was at a party in summer of 2012.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:11 AM
Nov 2013

I listened to two young women carry on about how angry they were at the comments the repub men were making. Remember, 'legitimate rape,' & 'women can just shut that down." One of them is the daughter of a friend, so she 'friended' me on Facebook & I saw that she had 'liked' Mitt Romney. WTF? Can she not put two & two together?

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
18. REALLY REALLY POOR 2010 Campaigning, Howard Dean REALLY needs to run operations at DNC, whatever...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:04 AM
Nov 2013

....negatives the guy has it should be put to rest ...

niyad

(113,257 posts)
22. k and r--thank you for this very depressing, unsurprising post. the hatred for, and the war on,
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:28 AM
Nov 2013

women not only continues, it seems to be accelerating.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
25. I can't help but think that a lot of millennials are in for one hell of a rude awakening.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:31 AM
Nov 2013

among other things, this is about the oppression of the poor and lower middle class.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
37. +1 >this is about the oppression of the poor and lower middle class.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:29 AM
Nov 2013

Just heard a story on radio about low income in TX trying to get abortions and the great expenses and travel that they have to endure now. In many cases they can not afford it.

niyad

(113,257 posts)
50. 40 years ago, we had no idea the battle would be harder than ever in the TWENTY-FIRST century.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:32 PM
Nov 2013

imagine how naive we were to think that society would evolve, not devolve.

whttevrr

(2,345 posts)
53. I know...
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 08:47 PM
Nov 2013

It is very sad.

I read stories last year about young women in Texas going to Mexico to get Over The Counter Medicines that can chemically abort a fetus. I hope the Supreme Court does not drag this out very long.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
27. thank you rider. I'm glad to see this isn't sinking.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 10:33 AM
Nov 2013

maybe there's not much we can do about this beyond raising awareness, but that's still something.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
29. A large part of this is abortion will always be legal....for wealthy women.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:04 AM
Nov 2013

They'll be able to pay doctors to declare their "miscarriage" natural, or fly to countries where abortion is legal.

If the wives and daughters of the wealthy were hurt by this crusade, it would have nowhere near the traction it does. But money grants them workarounds.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
32. so true. and abortion won't become illegal in all states
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:07 AM
Nov 2013

it'll just be more of the growing divisions. Not just rich and middle class women v lower middle class women and poor women, but red v. blue states and to some degree, men v women.

Ugh.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
40. Oh so so true &even many in the middle class will try and put it all on a credit card & do the same
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:36 AM
Nov 2013

An overall assault on every woman's right

esp the lower class who can not afford to "get around it"

NOT that any one should have to do that anyway!!!!!

leftyladyfrommo

(18,868 posts)
31. 30 year's ago I had a Planned Parenthood volunteer
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:04 AM
Nov 2013

tell me that the fight to keep abortion rights was just beginning.

I bet she had no idea it would go on at a fever pitch for the next 30 years.

And we do seem to be losing. Having the right to an abortion is meaningless if there is no place to go to get one. 30 year's ago a woman could go to Mexico or to Oregon. Those were our choices. Or you could go to a back alley some where.

whttevrr

(2,345 posts)
33. I do not understand how this is continuing...
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:10 AM
Nov 2013

I cannot imagine what it would be like to be a woman.

Fuck...

I hope 2014 fares better for those in this situation. Almost every day I see something that makes me so grateful to be living in a blue state. These red state laws are like...


 

cali

(114,904 posts)
38. perhaps. one would have to be able to afford it. Many women cannot
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:31 AM
Nov 2013

furthermore, a state could make traveling out of state to obtain an abortion illegal.

Yes, women with financial resources will always be able to get a safe abortion.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
42. Depends on how they made it illegal.
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:43 AM
Nov 2013

If they just ban it in one state, then yes you can go to another state. The Constitution means states can not generally ban travel to another state.

But they could pass a law such that you get arrested when you return to the state.

For example, until recently Lotteries were illegal in North Carolina but legal in Virginia. A whole lot of Virginia lottery retailers near the border got a whole lot of business from people with North Carolina license plates.

So North Carolina made it illegal to possess a lottery ticket in North Carolina. They couldn't stop people from going to Virginia, but they could go after people who did.

An anti-abortion state could make abortion illegal, and then require women to medically document that any miscarriage was 'natural'. So if she goes to another state to get an abortion, she can't be arrested for that. But she could be arrested for not having the right documentation.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
43. For being the party of
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:44 AM
Nov 2013

personal liberty, they sure do love restricting things. And any attempt to stop them from restricting our rights is a violation of their religious rights.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
46. cali, I agree with your above posts
Fri Nov 1, 2013, 02:39 PM
Nov 2013

that part of the problem is generational. I graduated from high school four months after the Roe v Wade decision; the previous year, a friend of mine was forced to leave high school because she was pregnant. She got some classes from a teacher who visited housebound students (don't remember what they were called); she was allowed to return after her baby was born, but because not all classes were available via the homeschool teacher, my friend didn't have enough credits to graduate with our class.

A decade before that, my sister-in-law was kicked out of high school and not allowed to return because she had a child.

Being an unwed mother was still a stigma at that point, socially, financially, and in pretty much every other way - that was changing, but still present. Parents refused to allow their pregnant daughters to live with them because it might cause problems for younger brothers or sisters, and talked about the problem in whispers.

When abortions because legal we all breathed a sign of relief because we knew that if birth control failed we still had an option that would allow us to get an education and not deal with being (using today's terminology) slut shamed.

Today that stigma is gone - pregnant high school girls can be cheerleaders, schools have day care centers, parents boast about their grandchildren no matter the marital status...and overall that's all a good thing. The result, however, is that many young women do not see abortion as necessary and see no reason to worry about its legality.

When I'm feeling particularly paranoid I wonder if that social acceptance of single motherhood will continue if abortion is made legal, or if women will again be pushed into marital morality.

haele

(12,646 posts)
54. Most of the push is from the religious right. Women will be pushed into marriage for relevance.
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 09:55 PM
Nov 2013

It's partially economic and mostly political. You can't rule over a "kingdom" successfully if you have a high number of recognized citizens that aren't effectively employed.

If women are pretty much relegated back to the "home front" because of risks inherent in their reproductive system for up to half their adult life, their rights as citizens can be easily be legally linked to some form of family or spousal patronage that would be required to support them while they were bearing and raising children.

Historically, "rulers" that oversaw that sort of legal status for women didn't feel the need to worry about more than half their population - only needed to worry about the half that legally "counted". It's an easy political out - much easier to focus on material gains for a relatively few men to "support their families" instead of social gains - income equality, or education, or health and environmental standards - that way.

Priest-Kings and other hierarchal based organizations are especially prone to taking the easy, short-term political options - and the fewer legal citizens who can call them out, the better. So relegating women to second-class dependent status along with children, disabled, and elderly - and potentially bringing back indentured servitude/prison slavery to "take care" of any excess male population - is the most efficient way for a Priest-King to gain and retain power.

Haele

gopiscrap

(23,756 posts)
55. this is a back door way around the Roe vs Wade ruling
Sat Nov 2, 2013, 10:11 PM
Nov 2013

SCOTUS used to take a dim view at attempts at circumventing their rulings...why won't they be vigilant again?

whttevrr

(2,345 posts)
57. This is about controlling people through fear.
Sun Nov 3, 2013, 11:47 AM
Nov 2013

Republicans are showing their sadism with these laws.

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