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Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:38 PM Nov 2013

Does "abortion should be safe, legal and rare" pretty much describe your approach to the issue?


25 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Yes.
19 (76%)
No.
6 (24%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
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Does "abortion should be safe, legal and rare" pretty much describe your approach to the issue? (Original Post) Nye Bevan Nov 2013 OP
Not really. Demobrat Nov 2013 #1
This. redqueen Nov 2013 #5
Hell yes. Daemonaquila Nov 2013 #105
I don't agree. phylny Nov 2013 #109
+1 leftstreet Nov 2013 #12
+1000 ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #20
Agreed. It's why I voted "no" in the poll n/t livetohike Nov 2013 #43
The "rare" part comes about via universal access to free contraception. kestrel91316 Nov 2013 #46
that's pipi_k Nov 2013 #63
+1 sakabatou Nov 2013 #90
This. ^^^ CrispyQ Nov 2013 #61
that and "none of my damn business". Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #71
+1. That's why I voted no. nt NCTraveler Nov 2013 #76
That should be Option #1. Zorra Nov 2013 #94
Safe, Legal, and None of Anyone's Business get the red out Nov 2013 #2
+1 grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #19
+infinity etherealtruth Nov 2013 #25
+ 1 Myrina Nov 2013 #28
Yes. n/t me b zola Nov 2013 #35
+1 n/t Gormy Cuss Nov 2013 #38
This. NuclearDem Nov 2013 #42
+1 n/t tammywammy Nov 2013 #54
+++++++ uppityperson Nov 2013 #56
Yup. n/t GoCubsGo Nov 2013 #66
Absolutely! silverweb Nov 2013 #79
And acess to free birth control idwiyo Nov 2013 #86
This is my answer bigwillq Nov 2013 #99
+1. The word "rare" does not belong there. It is judgmental. n/t MadrasT Nov 2013 #118
No. It should be safe, legal, hygienic, affordalbe and available as needed. So should... uppityperson Nov 2013 #3
I think this is the best answer. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2013 #62
Safe, legal and readily available at all times and places. Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #4
It should be safe, legal, and available as much as it's needed gollygee Nov 2013 #6
I think so, especially to birth control and real sex ed. I find it hard to believe any RKP5637 Nov 2013 #69
Safe and legal, yes, but rare, no. I want every woman who does not want Nay Nov 2013 #7
Pretty much, yes. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2013 #8
I couldn't have said it better myself. HappyMe Nov 2013 #15
Me neither War Horse Nov 2013 #36
I will put a check mark next to this response. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #16
Sums up my feelings as well maddezmom Nov 2013 #23
That's exactly how I feel. You summed it up for me perfectly! eom BlueCaliDem Nov 2013 #32
Check for this box. JoePhilly Nov 2013 #40
Thank you. Amazing how some here don't understand the meaning of rare in this context. n/t Dawgs Nov 2013 #50
We understand perfectly well Demobrat Nov 2013 #108
No, not mmmkay. n/t Dawgs Nov 2013 #112
Which part do you have a problem with, Demobrat Nov 2013 #114
"Abortion is usually a very traumatic experience for a woman". Some, yes, but not "usually" uppityperson Nov 2013 #59
We have had different experiences, then. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2013 #64
I am wondering what your experience is? uppityperson Nov 2013 #68
Perhaps my use of "very" was overstating. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2013 #72
Thanks. Talking about all this is necessary and I thank you for doing so in a civil manner. uppityperson Nov 2013 #73
Likewise! Lizzie Poppet Nov 2013 #82
I have had my teeth deep cleaned, filed down, pulled out, RebelOne Nov 2013 #83
Yes. Rare, to me, means lots and lots of education and open dialog on birth control. onehandle Nov 2013 #9
AARRGH! Who was the idio...person who came up with 'rare' ? leftstreet Nov 2013 #10
Someone who thought our human rights were something to be compromised redqueen Nov 2013 #17
No kidding leftstreet Nov 2013 #22
That analogy doesn't work because the rationalization they use is that abortion is a bad, horrible, redqueen Nov 2013 #31
True enough leftstreet Nov 2013 #34
Agree. Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #49
Was it Clinton? nt NCTraveler Nov 2013 #78
Only if gay marriage was an invasive medical procedure that was Crunchy Frog Nov 2013 #113
So Ted Kennedy "tried to ingratiate himself with the religious right"? Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #26
He was a practicing Catholic. redqueen Nov 2013 #39
Ted Kennedy embraced it, but I'm not sure if he came up with it: Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #24
Bill Clinton Demobrat Nov 2013 #48
Ted Kennedy was way ahead of Bill Clinton on "rare". See post above (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #52
This is what I remember Demobrat Nov 2013 #57
He is welcome to have as few as he wants. idwiyo Nov 2013 #84
Is he welcome to encourage sex education and accessible contraception? (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #92
He is welcome to support Her's and Her's alone Right to Choose why, when and how many. idwiyo Nov 2013 #96
Rare means something different than what you're thinking. n/t Dawgs Nov 2013 #53
Infrequent, uncommon leftstreet Nov 2013 #74
Exactly. n/t Dawgs Nov 2013 #104
I had to vote yes in spite of that word's presence. I don't think 'rare' is relevant. ancianita Nov 2013 #91
No. That's just bullshit rhetoric. cali Nov 2013 #11
Safe, legal and available are more important than frequency. pampango Nov 2013 #13
It seems to me that there is ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author LiberalLoner Nov 2013 #18
The catholic church would hand out condoms like candies Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #27
What post #1 said. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #21
its safe and legal, whether it's rare is a woman's choice.... spanone Nov 2013 #29
I like "rare" because it implies access to birth control and appropriate education. IdaBriggs Nov 2013 #30
the 'rare' part is unnecessary rightwing pandering. geek tragedy Nov 2013 #33
Safe, legal and rare as a result of education and ample access to birth control. Brickbat Nov 2013 #37
Safe, legal Aerows Nov 2013 #41
For me, this is the ideal. ZombieHorde Nov 2013 #44
That assumes legal and affordable birth control that all women have access to Warpy Nov 2013 #45
Safe, legal and rare and available. Autumn Nov 2013 #47
AAAAAAAAAAACK. NO . no no. no PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #51
To me, "rare" means preferring sex education and condom use over abortion. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #58
No. "Rare" is an adjective that describes how often something happens. It's subjective. And bullshit PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #70
+1 idwiyo Nov 2013 #81
Without "rare" Democrats will continue to lose elections and also the right to choose. Dawgs Nov 2013 #55
I certainly don't feel people should be forced into abortion for financial reasons Yo_Mama Nov 2013 #60
If everyone had access to contraception and education, the need for abortion would be cut by 3/4. appleannie1 Nov 2013 #65
About 2/3 right. Iggo Nov 2013 #67
I voted NO, because I believe that the choice for abortion MineralMan Nov 2013 #75
I voted no gopiscrap Nov 2013 #77
I vote NO. HER body, HER choice. Everyone else should just mind their own business, period. idwiyo Nov 2013 #80
What I wish more... is that the people who posted polls actually voted in them. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #85
I don't usually vote right away when I post a poll Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #100
Thank you Nye ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #106
"rare" is too open to interpretation One_Life_To_Give Nov 2013 #87
I think abortion should be available on demand, but I selected "rare" BeeBee Nov 2013 #88
+1 nt Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #93
HOGWASH!! Reduced? To what? Numbers mean nothing without context. PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #95
No, the only hogwash here is your response to my post. BeeBee Nov 2013 #102
Rare or not, it is not my call. Rex Nov 2013 #89
I think abortion should be safe and legal. BlueCheese Nov 2013 #97
The only two requirements should be safe and legal HarveyDarkey Nov 2013 #98
Abortion is not a "problem" Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2013 #101
Yes, because it is technically surgery fried eggs Nov 2013 #103
So "safe, legal and rare" carries the day overwhelmingly on DU. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #107
I firmly feel that the woman's right to autonomy trumps all LostOne4Ever Nov 2013 #110
My approach to the issue is that I have one head attached to one neck Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #111
You have no interest in encouraging improved access to contraception? Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #115
You can't encourage access. You can broaden access. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #116
No, safe, legal, on demand and none of my business The Second Stone Nov 2013 #117

phylny

(8,368 posts)
109. I don't agree.
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:44 AM
Nov 2013

I think anyone should be able to have an abortion if they want it. I would, however, like our populace to be educated enough to use birth control when they do not want to become pregnant, and therefore would like fewer unwanted pregnancies. I know birth control is not 100% effective, but fortunately, I was always diligent and never became pregnant when I didn't want to. I felt with sexual intercourse came responsibility.

There's no shame in saying it would be nice if abortion were rare for someone who 1) doesn't want to use or didn't use birth control and becomes pregnant and wants an abortion; 2) someone who used birth control and becomes pregnant and wants an abortion; 3) someone who has a change of mind or heart and decides to have an abortion; 4) other.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
46. The "rare" part comes about via universal access to free contraception.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:16 PM
Nov 2013

So when I say "safe, legal, and rare", that's part of the deal.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
63. that's
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:07 PM
Nov 2013

my take on it too.


Those saying "on demand" are splitting hairs. Of course it's on demand.


Rarely needed because there's adequate birth control available is altogether different.

get the red out

(13,460 posts)
2. Safe, Legal, and None of Anyone's Business
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:43 PM
Nov 2013

Combined with access to birth control being absolutely easy and cheap.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
3. No. It should be safe, legal, hygienic, affordalbe and available as needed. So should...
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:43 PM
Nov 2013

Contraception and child care.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
6. It should be safe, legal, and available as much as it's needed
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:45 PM
Nov 2013

though I imagine with better access to birth control and real sex ed, it would be rarer than it is.

RKP5637

(67,089 posts)
69. I think so, especially to birth control and real sex ed. I find it hard to believe any
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:13 PM
Nov 2013

woman really wants to go through an abortion for the fun of it. Easily available birth control and real sex ed IMO would reduce the sudden urges with no birth control and mistakes through innocence. Also, I don't have the link ... but as we know states/localities which want to hide the fact sex exists are generally highly correlated with unwanted pregnancies.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
7. Safe and legal, yes, but rare, no. I want every woman who does not want
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:45 PM
Nov 2013

the child to be able to get the abortion with no impediments involved. Abortions can be prevalent, for all I care.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
8. Pretty much, yes.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:45 PM
Nov 2013

"Safe" and "legal" are no-brainers for me. I also advocate "rare" because when sex education, contraceptive availability, and freedom of choice for women are what they should be in society, abortion will be rare. That's a good thing. Abortion is usually a very traumatic experience for a woman, even when it's completely legal and accessible.

Demobrat

(8,962 posts)
108. We understand perfectly well
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:50 PM
Nov 2013

We also know how likely it is that sex education and birth control availability will make a dent in accidental prefnancy rates any time soon. So in the meantime lets go for safe, legal, and available on demand, mmmkay?

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
59. "Abortion is usually a very traumatic experience for a woman". Some, yes, but not "usually"
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:02 PM
Nov 2013

And yes, I've helped many women get abortions. For some it is traumatic, for others just a huge relief. No "usually very traumatic" at all.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
64. We have had different experiences, then.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:07 PM
Nov 2013

I've seldom (if ever) met a woman who wasn't at least some degree traumatized by the experience, even when simultaneously greatly relieved.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
68. I am wondering what your experience is?
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:12 PM
Nov 2013

I've assisted at many first term, also assisted with ivf as well as working as a volunteer and managing a women's health care clinic.

I also see a HUGE difference between "Abortion is usually a very traumatic experience for a woman" and "at least some degree traumatized". My disagreement was with "usually a very traumatic ".

Getting my teeth deep cleaned is "some degree traumatizing" also.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
72. Perhaps my use of "very" was overstating.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:41 PM
Nov 2013

I can certainly accept that the level of traumatization is often comparatively minor (from both a physical and mental standpoint).

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
73. Thanks. Talking about all this is necessary and I thank you for doing so in a civil manner.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:54 PM
Nov 2013

There can be emotions tied up in it all, and being able to look at it otherwise, and use non-hyperbolic language, is a good thing. Sorry if I came off snarkily, don't mean to, am just really really tired right now. Best wishes to you.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
82. Likewise!
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:27 PM
Nov 2013

It's gratifying when passion and strongly-held opinions don't get in the way of civil discourse. I wasn't in the least upset by the tone you took. Best!

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
83. I have had my teeth deep cleaned, filed down, pulled out,
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:38 PM
Nov 2013

crowns, bridges and every procedure imaginable in the dental field. I would rather have an abortion than all that dental work, and believe me, I know of what I speak.

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
9. Yes. Rare, to me, means lots and lots of education and open dialog on birth control.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:45 PM
Nov 2013

Abortion rates have risen in states with moron teahadists in control.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
17. Someone who thought our human rights were something to be compromised
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:51 PM
Nov 2013

by trying to ingratiate themselves with the religious right.

leftstreet

(36,101 posts)
22. No kidding
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:53 PM
Nov 2013

I think it was the Clinton admin, but I can't remember

Can you imagine if some pol claimed gay marriage should be 'safe, legal, and rare?'

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
31. That analogy doesn't work because the rationalization they use is that abortion is a bad, horrible,
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:59 PM
Nov 2013

traumatic, tragic thing. No one says that about gay marriage though. Their arguments are even stupider.

But by portraying an abortion as some horrible, evil thing that we should hope almost never happens, they are stigmatizing abortion, and seriously that shit needs to stop right goddamn now.

Crunchy Frog

(26,578 posts)
113. Only if gay marriage was an invasive medical procedure that was
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 10:20 AM
Nov 2013

a response to an unwanted physiological event. That might have been prevented through other, less invasive, means.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
26. So Ted Kennedy "tried to ingratiate himself with the religious right"?
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:55 PM
Nov 2013

In 1987, Kennedy delivered an impassioned speech condemning Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork as a "right-wing extremist" and warning that "Robert Bork's America" would be one marked by back alley abortions and other backward practices. Kennedy's strong opposition to Bork's nomination was important to the Senate's rejection of Bork's candidacy. In recent years, he has argued that much of the debate over abortion is a false dichotomy. Speaking at the National Press Club in 2005, he remarked, "Surely, we can all agree that abortion should be rare, and that we should do all we can to help women avoid the need to face that decision." He voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ted_Kennedy

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
39. He was a practicing Catholic.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:05 PM
Nov 2013

He apparently had enough religiosity to stick that "rare" bullshit on there for his own reasons.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
24. Ted Kennedy embraced it, but I'm not sure if he came up with it:
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:54 PM
Nov 2013

In 1987, Kennedy delivered an impassioned speech condemning Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork as a "right-wing extremist" and warning that "Robert Bork's America" would be one marked by back alley abortions and other backward practices. Kennedy's strong opposition to Bork's nomination was important to the Senate's rejection of Bork's candidacy. In recent years, he has argued that much of the debate over abortion is a false dichotomy. Speaking at the National Press Club in 2005, he remarked, "Surely, we can all agree that abortion should be rare, and that we should do all we can to help women avoid the need to face that decision." He voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ted_Kennedy

Demobrat

(8,962 posts)
57. This is what I remember
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:01 PM
Nov 2013

Abortion should not only be safe and legal, it should be rare.

BILL CLINTON, speech at DNC, Aug. 29, 1996

I can still remember how appalled I was.


http://www.notable-quotes.com/c/clinton_bill.html

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
96. He is welcome to support Her's and Her's alone Right to Choose why, when and how many.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:27 PM
Nov 2013

And so are you, of course.

He wants to advocate easy access to birth control, and sex ed? Great!
He personally wants to have as few abortions as possible HIMSELF? Absofuckinglutely! And so are you!

Your body, your choice.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
13. Safe, legal and available are more important than frequency.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:47 PM
Nov 2013

There are many medical procedures that I would categorize as ideally "safe, legal, available" and "rare" (as in not often necessary).

Response to Nye Bevan (Original post)

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
30. I like "rare" because it implies access to birth control and appropriate education.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 01:59 PM
Nov 2013

I also want "medically necessary" situations to be less required as women's health issues are better addressed.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
33. the 'rare' part is unnecessary rightwing pandering.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:01 PM
Nov 2013

Every abortion flows from an unwanted pregnancy, and of course unwanted pregnancies should be rare. That's why we promote education about contraception.

In an ideal world, there would be virtually no abortions because there would be virtually no unwanted pregnancies, as a definitional matter.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
37. Safe, legal and rare as a result of education and ample access to birth control.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:04 PM
Nov 2013

Until then, safe, legal and easily accessible covers it.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
44. For me, this is the ideal.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:10 PM
Nov 2013

I would like to see all medical procedures to be rare due to excellent preventative medicine and health education. However, we're not really there yet. A more realistic phrase for today may just be "Safe and legal."

eta missing word

Warpy

(111,174 posts)
45. That assumes legal and affordable birth control that all women have access to
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:11 PM
Nov 2013

That is, the "rare" part does. Support for mothers would also help, meaning paid leave and affordable day care as well as financial help if the man ran out on her.

Abortions have always been relatively rare, whether or not it's been legal. Illegal abortions were just harder to survive and many women didn't. Desperate women seeking illegal abortions are prepared to die since suicide is often what they perceive to be their only rational alternative. Since safe operations are available, women shouldn't have to risk death just to please the preachers and men's rights groups.

I would say "as rare/common as they need to be." Abortion is painful, whether surgical or chemical. No woman has one because childbirth would interfere with a hair appointment.

Just keep it "safe and legal, putting the butchers out of business."

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
51. AAAAAAAAAAACK. NO . no no. no
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 02:58 PM
Nov 2013

Abortion Safe and Legal? Yes. Make it Rare? Not. The. Point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1152484

I know a lot of people are 'personally' opposed to abortion and claim that they would never have one or encourage a loved one to. I hear and see a lot of Democrats using the "safe, legal, rare" phrase and, honestly, it bugs the SHIT out of me. Why? Because the "safe, legal and rare" language still stigmatizes women's health care choices. We don't owe anybody an explanation when we need abortions any more than we do when we need breast exams or pap smears, and their frequency is a medical matter, not a legal one.

I see Democrats reference party icons like Kennedy, Clinton and the party itself using this phrase. Thankfully the Democratic Party dropped that seriously antiquated language in 2008: http://thecoathangerproject.blogspot.com/2008/08/reclaiming-morality-of-abortion-and.html

And here is a good piece summarizing my feelings on this matter: http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/04/26/safe-legal-rare-another-perspective

A common narrative in the political and cultural discussions of reproductive health focuses on reducing the number of abortions taking place every year. It’s supposed to be one thing that those who support abortion rights and those who oppose abortion can agree on, the so-called common ground. The assumption is that we can all agree that abortion itself is a bad thing, perhaps necessary, but definitely not a good thing. Even President Clinton declared (and many others have embraced) that abortion should be safe, legal and rare. According to the Guttmacher Institute, almost half of all pregnancies among American women in 2005 were unplanned or unintended. And of those, four in 10 ended in abortion. (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#1) In other words, between one-fifth and one-quarter of all pregnancies ended in abortion. Without any other information, those statistics can sound scary and paint a picture of women as irresponsible or poor decision-makers. Therefore reducing the number of abortions is a goal that reproductive health, rights and justice activists should work toward, right?

Wrong. Those numbers mean nothing without context. If the 1.21 million abortions that took place in 2005 (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#1) represent the number of women who needed abortions (and in my opinion, if a woman decides she needs an abortion, then she does), as well as the many women who chose to terminate pregnancies that they very much wanted but could not afford to carry to term, then that number is too high. The work of reducing the number of abortions, therefore, would entail creating an authentically family-friendly society, where women would have the support they need to raise their families, whatever forms they took. That could include eliminating the family caps in TANF, encouraging unionization of low-wage workers, reforming immigration policies and making vocational and higher education more accessible.

On the other hand, if those 1.21 million abortions represent only the women who could access abortion financially, geographically or otherwise, then that number is too low. Yes, too low. If that’s the case, then what is an appropriate response? How do we best support women and their reproductive health? Do we dare admit that increasing the number of abortions might be not only good for women’s health, but also moral and just?

What if we stopped focusing on the number of abortions and instead focused on the women themselves? Much of the work of the reproductive health, rights and justice movements would remain the same. We would still advocate for legislation that helps our families. We would still fight to protect abortion providers and their staffs from verbal harassment and physical violence. What would change, however, is the stigma and shame. By focusing on supporting women’s agency and self-determination, rather than judging the outcomes of that agency, we send a powerful message. We say that we trust women. We say we will not use them and their experiences as pawns in a political game. We say we care about women and want them to have access to all the information, services and resources necessary to make the best decisions they can for themselves and their families. That is at the core of reproductive justice. Not reducing the number of abortions. Safe – yes. Legal– absolutely. Rare – not the point.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
58. To me, "rare" means preferring sex education and condom use over abortion.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:01 PM
Nov 2013

And condom use has the advantage of protecting against STDs.

 

Dawgs

(14,755 posts)
55. Without "rare" Democrats will continue to lose elections and also the right to choose.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:00 PM
Nov 2013

Cry all you want but it's a fact.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
60. I certainly don't feel people should be forced into abortion for financial reasons
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 03:03 PM
Nov 2013

so I voted yes, but that's probably not an exact statement of my position.

MineralMan

(146,262 posts)
75. I voted NO, because I believe that the choice for abortion
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:01 PM
Nov 2013

is one only for the woman making that choice. The "rare" part is irrelevant, so I can't vote yes.

Abortions should be safe, legal, and left to each individual woman to decide. It's nobody else's business.

gopiscrap

(23,726 posts)
77. I voted no
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:03 PM
Nov 2013

I agree it should be safe and legal but not rare. It should be free and those that get one should get a tax credit

idwiyo

(5,113 posts)
80. I vote NO. HER body, HER choice. Everyone else should just mind their own business, period.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:19 PM
Nov 2013

She and only she alone has the right to decide why, when, and how many.

If one supports Universal Human Rights, there is no other choice but to accept the position described above.

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
87. "rare" is too open to interpretation
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:54 PM
Nov 2013

It's a term chosen because it means different things to different people. The right seizes upon it because it means "legal restrictions" etc. to them. While the left thinks it means "education" and "contraception". I will keep my message on the subject more focused so the right can't claim my support/agreement.

BeeBee

(1,074 posts)
88. I think abortion should be available on demand, but I selected "rare"
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:55 PM
Nov 2013

because I would like to see the number of unwanted pregnancies reduced through education and birth control.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
95. HOGWASH!! Reduced? To what? Numbers mean nothing without context.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:21 PM
Nov 2013

For example, if the 1.21 million abortions that took place in 2005 (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#1) represent the number of women who needed abortions (and in my opinion, if a woman decides she needs an abortion, then she does), as well as the many women who chose to terminate pregnancies that they very much wanted but could not afford to carry to term, then that number is too high. The work of reducing the number of abortions, therefore, would entail creating an authentically family-friendly society, where women would have the support they need to raise their families, whatever forms they took. That could include eliminating the family caps in TANF, encouraging unionization of low-wage workers, reforming immigration policies and making vocational and higher education more accessible.

On the other hand, if those 1.21 million abortions represent only the women who could access abortion financially, geographically or otherwise, then that number is too low. Yes, too low. If that’s the case, then what is an appropriate response? How do we best support women and their reproductive health? Do we dare admit that increasing the number of abortions might be not only good for women’s health, but also moral and just?

BeeBee

(1,074 posts)
102. No, the only hogwash here is your response to my post.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:50 PM
Nov 2013

I stated that I would like to see unwanted pregnancies reduced through education and birth control.

The key word in my response is UNWANTED. You can save your outrage for someone else.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
89. Rare or not, it is not my call.
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 04:55 PM
Nov 2013

I would like to think that it would be used as a last resort, but still not up to me.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
101. Abortion is not a "problem"
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:46 PM
Nov 2013

It's just a solution to a problem -- that being unwanted and unintended pregnancies -- that some people don't like.

If we have universal, age-appropriate sex education, in addition to universal and no-cost access to a broad range of contraceptive choices, we'll have a lot fewer unwanted or unintended pregnancies.

AND if we have free and low-cost access to maternal and well-baby health care, in addition to quality daycare and decent-paying jobs, fewer women will decide that they can't afford to be a parent.

Rare....

Nobody should have to experience an unwanted pregnancy. The goal should be that every pregnancy results in a child being born to a parent or parents who are willing and prepared for the challenges that lie ahead of them.

All that being said, and because human beings are far from perfect (best-laid plans of mice and men and all that...), abortion should always be an option for those who choose it.

fried eggs

(910 posts)
103. Yes, because it is technically surgery
Mon Nov 4, 2013, 05:50 PM
Nov 2013

Even if you eliminate emotions and judgment, all surgeries carry risks. Not to mention the cost.

LostOne4Ever

(9,286 posts)
110. I firmly feel that the woman's right to autonomy trumps all
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 02:52 AM
Nov 2013

But I still feel the loss of life is regrettable and so feel we should do what we can to minimize (through contraception/birthcontrol/education) it while making sure it remains as easily accessable as possible. More detailed answer in the other thread

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
111. My approach to the issue is that I have one head attached to one neck
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 03:29 AM
Nov 2013

Which is in charge of making the decisions for exactly ONE body. My own.

Which means I dont need to come up with convoluted cognitive dissonance-causing rationales for why so sometimes i should be entitled to tell other people what to do, and sometimes I shouldn't.

Unfortunately telling other people what to do is a much beloved pastime, in many circles.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
116. You can't encourage access. You can broaden access.
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:02 PM
Nov 2013

You can encourage use.

In my experience, when given the tools and the freedom, people on the whole tend to make the right decisions themselves. On the whole.

Better sex education? Absolutely. Although one would need to define "better". Some people think "abstinence only" is better.

Teaching teenagers about birth control methods and how to use them is not, to my mind, the same thing as telling people what to do. I don't feel qualified to second guess any woman's decision making process in how she comes to the place where she's terminating a pregnancy. It does not strike me as even remotely my business.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
117. No, safe, legal, on demand and none of my business
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:05 PM
Nov 2013

The only people that need have an opinion on whether a woman gets an abortion are a woman and her doctor.

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