Michael Hastings's brother rules out foul play in death; says media sensationalized

[pnwmom]

his brother's death; and says he saw him the day before and he was in the midst of a manic episode.

This should put the rumors to an end, but of course it won't.

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/05/michael_hastings_life_and_death_a_brothers_reflections/

As I told the police out in L.A., a few days before he died, Mike called me and I got the impression that he was having a manic episode, similar to one he had had 15 years ago, which he had referred to in his writing. At that time, drugs had been involved, and I suspected that might be the case again. I immediately booked a flight to L.A. for the next day, with the thought that maybe I could convince him to come back to Vermont to dry out or (less likely) get him to go to detox/rehab there in L.A. When I got to L.A. and saw him, I immediately realized that he was not going to go willingly. I started to make arrangements with our other brother to fly out and help me possibly force Mike into checking himself into a hospital or detox center. I’d thought that I had at least convinced Mike to just stay in his apartment and chill out for the next few days, but he snuck out on me when I was sleeping. He crashed his car before anyone could do anything to help him … I ended up telling this all to the police on Tuesday morning, as I was one of the last people to see him alive and I was one of the few people who could really put his behavior on that day in context.

How good a job do you feel the cops have done looking into the crash?

I feel that the investigation was pretty thorough. The LAPD was very easy to work with, and I think they did a good job. I certainly have no real complaints about them or the coroner’s office, and I think everyone in my family is satisfied with the report. For the most part, it didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know or strongly suspect.

SNIP

How have you reacted to the way the press has covered the report?

If I have any problems, it’s with how the report was written about in the press. There were a lot of journalists-in-quotes who didn’t seem to have read it very carefully or were, irresponsibly I think, taking things out of context. I guess that’s understandable — I mean, of course the press is going to sensationalize things and play up the juicy stuff. But just because it was understandable didn’t mean I liked it.

SNIP

What are your own thoughts about the cause of death? Do you have any feelings at all that foul play might have been involved?

I really rule out foul play entirely.

SNIP

[gcomeau]

1. THEY obviously got to him...

</snark>

[LadyHawkAZ]

6. How do we know this was REALLY his brother?

It could be a plant.

Maybe Hastings didn't have a brother at all.

[msanthrope]

2. I'm just gonna kick this from time to time.....nt

[DevonRex]

3. I know what that's like, going to stay with someone

who's in the middle of a crisis like that. You try to help. Try to get them to detox. And they sneak out when you can't stay awake anymore. They can always stay awake. Their sleep patterns are totally fucked up. They know they just have to wear you down. It's the disease of addiction combined with whatever else, maybe bipolar, they have going on. Not their fault. Closest thing to possession I've ever seen. In a totally nonreligious way.

[Skidmore]

9. I have had a similar experience with a good friend

who has passed on. The problems with dealing with the needs of someone in such dire straits when you are not family is further compounded. It was hard to watch the sweet friend I knew be held captive by her own mind. She told me once that getting her committed was the only thing that could be done and that she was somehow aware of her irrationality but could not tap the volition needed to inhibit the racing thoughts and delusions. It must have felt horrible for her to have experienced this l. I know it was heart rendingly horrible to watch her go through it.

[DevonRex]

10. She was right.

That is the only thing. Commitment. They have to have enough time away from drugs/alcohol for a proper evaluation to take place. Then the right diagnosis can be reached and meds can be started to see what really works in a secure setting. It's too tricky otherwise. If the med is too much of a downer they'll stop taking it on their own. But a trained staff can tell if it's not right. Theyll try something else and hopefully by the time the person is released it'll be on something they can function on happily. That is the key.

Most people don't get that kind of treatment anymore. Very sadly.

[CrawlingChaos]

4. It's one thing to consider, but that's all

All you know from this report is that his brother saw him shortly before his death and he was upset, disturbed - whatever terminology you want to use - and his brother subjectively characterized this as a manic episode. That is all you can glean from this.

I don't have an opinion on Hastings' death other than that it's suspicious, but it makes no sense to throw out something like this and say, case closed. Family members are often wrong.

[pnwmom]

11. He was with him hours before his death, sleeping in the same apartment,

desperately trying to get him psychiatric help.

His brother is a MUCH better judge of the situation than any of the armchair conspiracy theorists.

[functioning_cog]

20. sad to see people make conspiracies out of things like this

[CrawlingChaos]

23. Yes, we've established that he was with him, and he was upset

That is all. We know nothing of the brother really, except that they lived in different states, so presumably he wouldn't have been seeing him all that often. You cannot assess how good a judge the brother is - you don't have enough information and he's being highly subjective. My own brother, for example would be an extremely unreliable source of information in any such circumstances, so the mere fact that he's his brother doesn't conclusively establish anything. It's merely something to consider.

[cali]

27. We know his brother is a doc. We know they lived together in NY

We know that this family was close and that Michael spent a lot of time in Vermont with family. We know that the conspiracy folks know nothing at all.

We know that he had drug/mental health issues dating back to his late teens.

from the above interview:

JH: The summer after his first year he had a really bad manic/delusional/paranoid episode. It was probably brought on by drug use, but by the time he was in the middle of it, it was going on its own power. He ended up in detox/rehab for most of the summer, and he didn’t go back to Connecticut College.

PR: Was he generally unstable when he was young? Did he cause the family some anxiety as a kid?

JH: He was definitely a worry even before his college breakdown. He partied in high school, and I guess everyone does. But he had come close to being expelled and getting into serious trouble a few times. There was some relief from my parents when he went off to college. But that environment turned out to be really bad for him. He started using all sorts of drugs and it triggered a kind of manic episode. When he went home for summer after his first year of college, he wasn’t in good shape and ended up crashing a car, getting arrested, and going to detox/rehab. Though later he told it as a kind of gonzo, Hunter S. Thompson-style adventure, it was a really traumatic experience for him and my family. But he was always looking for risks: even after he sobered up and got his life on track and had his career underway he still wanted to push the envelope, such as having himself assigned to Newsweek’s Iraq bureau.

[pnwmom]

28. It isn't just the fact that he was the brother. He was the brother

who was there with him, who had seen him in manic episodes in the past, desperately trying to get him committed. He was the brother who saw evidence of drug use.

It is terrible that people outside the family are trying to insert themselves into this situation, as if they could know more than the people who loved him and were right there, doing everything they could to help.

What colossal nerve.

[msanthrope]

35. The "journalists" who insert themselves in this situtation are ghouls. Fucking ghouls. nt

[geek tragedy]

31. Good thing we have you here to correct his family and the people

who saw him last.

[CrawlingChaos]

36. The only person I corrected was the OP

To say that this should not be presented as proof of anything.

Gee whiz, it seems a such a simple, rational point.

[geek tragedy]

37. Problem is that your post was neither rational nor simple.

You claimed Hastings' death was suspicious.

No, it's really not outside of Internet conspiracy theory mongers.

You then tried to dismiss the statements of his brother--who unlike the various wackadoodles who think he was assassinated--actually had a chance to observe and interact with him.

Those who view his death as suspicious do so as an article of faith, and are not susceptible to logic or facts. They have their conspiracy theory, and nothing can convince them that it isnt true.

[CrawlingChaos]

39. your entire post is complete nonsense

A man with incredibly powerful enemies dies a horrific, violent death - that is automatically suspicious by any sane criteria. It may or may not turn out to be foul play, but to say it's not suspicious is ABSURD.

I did not dismiss his brother's comments - I said they were NOT PROOF of anything. Try reading for comprehension before posting.

[geek tragedy]

40. "automatically suspicious by any sane criteria."

No. You're adopting the Alex Jones definition of suspicious.

Andrew Breitbart dies young? SUSPICIOUS!!!

Where there is ZERO evidence of foul play and ALL evidence points to an accident, it is not suspicious.

That you have your suspicions does not make those suspicions rational. You are not positing a logical reason to doubt this was an accident.

You are insisting that the cause of accident has not been established via factual information. It has--drug addicted guy in a bad state of mind snuck out of his own home and crashed his car.

There is no evidence of another theory. Just idle speculation from the conspiracy theory cottage industry.

There is no more "may or may not turn out to be foul play." That matter has been resolved. His family has accepted it and moved on. There is no more investigation, no matter physical evidence to be processed.

[CrawlingChaos]

41. You are really just having an argument with yourself at this point

Well, you and your strawmen.

Have fun - you certainly don't need me for this.

[pnwmom]

44. It seemed suspicious before we knew any more.

When no one knew about his recent drug use or his recent suffering with mania, along with his history of both.

Now that the family has provided those facts, reasonable people with adjust their views and put their suspicions aside. Unreasonable people will continue to cling to them, probably forever.

[CrawlingChaos]

52. Do you know something I don't?

If something new and conclusive has come to light, that's a different story, but IMO this interview with the brother isn't much to hang your hat on. My impressions come largely from the reaction of his colleagues at The Young Turks, where he was a regular. At the time, I recall Cenk discussed how Hastings had recently been a nervous wreck, but no mention of him acting irrationally or showing signs of mental illness. If Michael Hastings had been scared and nervous for legitimate reasons, his brother could easily have mistaken this for a manic episode - there's no way for us to know.

Check out this commentary from Cenk and Ana at TYT, and keep in mind that these are journalists who worked with him and knew him:

[pnwmom]

53. Unlike you, I don't think his brother and mother are liars. Or deluded.

Cenk isn't a physician and he wasn't with Michael, taking care of him, the day before the accident.

If Cenk is a reasonable person, I bet he's changed his mind in view of what the brother and mother are both saying.

[CrawlingChaos]

55. Now who's being unreasonable

I never said they were liars. I said they could possibly be mistaken. Apparently there's no possibility of having a rational exchange with you. I give up.

[pnwmom]

57. You're the one who is likely to be mistaken, not the closest family

members that he has, who were trying to help him. Not his brother the physician.

But conspiracy theories are so much fun! Who cares that they come at this family's expense!

[pnwmom]

43. I was quoting the brother, who as a doctor, and the family member

who was with him in the hours immediately before, is much more in the position to know his state of mind than anyone here.

[cali]

25. codswallop. His brother is a doctor and knew him intimately

he knew his history. He was with him close to the time that Michael died. It's hardly just a subjective opinion. It's an opinion that should carry a lot of weight and it echoes what their mother has said.

[CrawlingChaos]

33. I agreed it should be considered

But the OP is asserting that this is conclusive proof of something, which it is not. And it is a subjective opinion; it seems silly to say that it's not. If I'm making a judgment about one of my family members, it's going to be highly colored by our whole history together. I could easily jump to conclusions that aren't correct based on things that have happened in the past - I may be right or I could easily be wrong. It happens all the time.

[pnwmom]

45. It is a subjective opinion of a doctor who was a family member

who was trying to help him.

That subjective opinion outweighs any of the subjective opinions of total strangers.

[Coyotl]

5. What drove him to that point should be the real question?

If it was something that would not have otherwise happened to him, the mania, why did ti happen now? Causing this sort of thing is well within the black bag toolkit, for one ting. Also, harassment plain and simple will impact someone with a known tendency and could be a chosen form of covert assault.

Sometimes, particularly when dealing with activists presenting a danger, being mentally altered isn't what it appears to be, including to the impacted person who never realizes they were administered to.

[geek tragedy]

7. People with high stakes jobs often thrive on the pressure but collapse from the stress.

It's tough to walk that line.

[zappaman]

8. Drugs.

Did you read the interview?
Drugs.

[Coyotl]

14. Blame drugs?

If it was that black and white, half the population would be completely whacked all the time.

[geek tragedy]

16. High stress leads a lot of recovering substance abusers to relapse into adiction and abuse.

All walks of life, all education levels, etc etc.

[zappaman]

24. In this case, yes.

Especially when in combo with the mental health issues and driving at a high rate of speed down a residential street.

[CrawlingChaos]

54. No, drugs were not a factor

So says the toxicology report. He had traces of marijuana (prescription, for PTSD) and the tiny amounts of amphetamine found were probably traces from Adderall, which he was known to take occasionally. But the conclusion was that he was not in any way impaired by drugs at the time of the crash.

[pnwmom]

59. The brother says drugs were a factor. If you understood anything about

bipolar disease you would know that it didn't matter that drugs weren't found in his system at the time of death. Drugs that he had taken days before could have been the trigger that led to the manic episode that his brother identified. Once the drug triggers the mania, it doesn't matter that the drug has left his system. The mania remains until it runs its course.

[zappaman]

63. Exactly. n/t

[pnwmom]

29. No, only the people who had bipolar disorder or other risk factors. n/t

[pnwmom]

12. Preexisting bipolar disease plus drugs is a toxic combination.

He had a history of mania, so this isn't "something that would not have otherwise happened to him." People with bipolar disease can go for years between episodes, and drugs can be a trigger. Or the disease can be triggered by seemingly nothing at all.

But the brother had been with Michael and saw evidence that drugs were a factor, so that seems to be the answer in this case.

[Coyotl]

17. There is a big distinction between ingredient and answer.

And "seems to be" is such a useful qualifier when there is no certain answer, as are demonized drugs.

[LanternWaste]

19. What then do you believe drove him towards his episode?

What then, without the "seems to be" (or any other similar) qualifier, do you believe drove him towards his episode?

[Coyotl]

22. My whole point is I'm not into "believing" what really must have happened.

All the evidence is useful, including his brothers facts. I'm just not going to turn it into my own concocted inferences because I "believe" one answer or another. I define instead the limits of what I know and acknowledge remaining unknowns and uncertainties. Life is complex, language is barely comparable.

[JI7]

18. it didn't just happen now

[REP]

21. No, that's not a real question

I'm guessing you don't know anyone with Bipolar I or II. What "drives" people with these conditions is not well understood, but seems to have something to do chemical imbalance. What triggers it is unknown; stress is thought to play a part but a person can experience a manic episode under almost any circumstances (though living with BPD can by itself make life more stressful). These imbalances can be made more intense with street drugs or controlled with others. The thing that isn't widely known is that these manic phases feel GREAT to the person experiencing it, and that person may want to further enhance it.

Wanting to attach cloak-and-dagger bullshit to a mental illness is ... creepy as all fuck.

[pnwmom]

32. I think you nailed it.

The people who have been close to someone with bipolar get this -- they know that what the brother is saying makes sense, given Hastings's history.

Only people who know nothing about bipolar think there needs to be some other more nefarious explanation about what happened to Hastings.

[REP]

46. People with BPD can also be very successful - there may be a stereotype of BPD = nonfunctional

Having BPD does not mean a person is unable to function, let alone excel in their chosen career, yet there seems to be the idea that all those with BPD are left completely unable to function. BPD, like any depressive disorder, does have a component of unrealistic thoughts, but those are usually focused inward ("I'm terrible, I'm worthless" or "I'm invincible but it doesn't matter either way" type thinking, rather than "These pills they say I should take to change how I feel must be part of a bigger plot," which is more characteristic of paranoid schizophrenia ... see anything written by Philip K Dick for an example ).

BPD is one of the harder illnesses to treat - not because the patient distrusts the treatment or doctors, but the highs are so exciting and the patient misses those; and the lows can be so utterly miserable it can seem like self-medication (drinking, drugs) works faster and better to numb the horrible pain.

[Recursion]

58. You don't get "driven to" a manic episode. It's a disease. Do you ask

what "drove someone" to prostate cancer?

[zappaman]

13. Doesn't matter.

CTers have already decided this death was fishy and NOTHING will change that.
Hell, there is even video of the car speeding super fast, but video means nothing to them.
The intrepid Internet detectives will be telling us forever that Hastings was silenced even though there is zero evidence to substantiate that claim.

[Iggo]

15. Well, gosh. That's good enough for me. Case closed.

[jakeXT]

26. So he was crazy,he imagined the government was spying on him and someone had tampered with his car.

His behavior grew increasingly erratic. Helicopters often circle over the hills, but Hastings believed there were more of them around whenever he was at home, keeping an eye on him. He came to believe his Mercedes was being tampered with. "Nothing I could say could console him," Thigpen says.

One night in June, he came to Thigpen's apartment after midnight and urgently asked to borrow her Volvo. He said he was afraid to drive his own car. She declined, telling him her car was having mechanical problems.

"He was scared, and he wanted to leave town," she says.

The next day, around 11:15 a.m., she got a call from her landlord, who told her Hastings had died early that morning. His car had crashed into a palm tree at 75 mph and exploded in a ball of fire.

http://www.laweekly.com/2013-08-22/news/michael-hastings-crash/

[geek tragedy]

30. Somehow, his family is less concerned with this conspiracy theory than

Internet conspiracy peddlers.

It's not at all inconsistent for people who are f@cked up on drugs to be both paranoid and bad drivers.

[pnwmom]

34. He had a psychotic break, something that can happen with bipolar disorder.

His brother was with him till a few hours before his death -- he knew the symptoms because he had been with him in the past during a manic episode.

[cali]

38. We do not know if he had full blown psychosis and that is what a psychotic break entails

a manic episode does not necessarily mean psychosis and his brother says nothing of the kind. He says he appeared manic. Not the same thing.

[pnwmom]

42. I was reacting to the post before. If he was imagining things that weren't true,

then that would be a sign of a psychotic break; I didn't say "full-blown psychosis," however.

From JakeXT's link: "His behavior grew increasingly erratic. Helicopters often circle over the hills, but Hastings believed there were more of them around whenever he was at home, keeping an eye on him. He came to believe his Mercedes was being tampered with. "Nothing I could say could console him," Thigpen says.

From the brother's interview: "But based on being with him and talking to people who were worried about him in the weeks leading up to his death, and being around him when he had had similar problems when he was younger, I was pretty much convinced that he wasn’t in danger from any outside agency."

[Rex]

47. I think I will go with the official story on this one.

Until any new evidence pops up, which I doubt any will.

[GoneFishin]

48. The Kennedy family remained silent about JFK and RFK deaths for 50 years.

I don't believe it puts the matter to rest.

I think the reaction of the brother could be more about the brother than about the circumstances of Michael's death. He's certainly entitled to his opinion. But unless he was a witness to the crash, or the autopsy or the analysis of the car, that's all it is.

I said from the beginning that if nothing odd happened, like chain of custody issues with the body or the car, or the investigation, then I would have to assume that no cover-up was occurring.

But instead, the body was cremated and the various official reports and car have been unavailable for inspection.

All they had to do was a thorough transparent investigation then release the results without stonewalling.

But nope! As frequently is the case when someone who is a thorn in the side of an influential right-winger dies under mysterious circumstances, it's FUBAR.

I see no proof here.

[pnwmom]

50. He's a physician who's dealt with his brother's manic episodes before

and was attempting to get him into treatment for this one. Most of Hastings's body was already burned up in the crash, so cremating it was a logical choice.

People may not have witnessed the crash but there is a video of his car racing through the street.

Hastings wasn't a public figure and his family had every right to deal with his tragic death however they wished. It's a huge insult to a grieving family to accuse them of complicity in a cover-up of his death.

[GoneFishin]

61. My points stand.

He pissed off powerful people not known for their pacifist tendencies. He cost one his job.

He said he was working on a big story, which I interpret to mean a story which some would rather keep secret.

You connect the dots your way . . .

[REP]

51. And it's A Kennedy with some unusual wackdoodle theories about vaccines

He also has some equally hilarious theories about why his murderer cousin Michael Skakel is the victim of aliens or something. RFK Jr is an amusing man, but not one to be taken seriously.

[GoneFishin]

56. Cheap shots at RFK Jr. only cost yourself credibility. I have listened to him enough to know

that you are making shit up.

[pnwmom]

62. The only thing whackadoodle about the Skakel case, according to the

judge who ordered a retrial, was the pathetic defense put on by Atty. Sherman. He neglected to interview a psychologist who was a witness to Michael's presence in the next town during the time of the murder, even though the attorney was put on notice of this witness in grand jury testimony. And he failed to put forth three other reliable witnesses who would have disputed the account of the drug user who claimed Michael had confessed.

Maybe you should read the judge's opinion. It's not hilarious at all.

In the opinion below, the judge writes about the psychologist witness and the alibi starting at around page 51; and about the other three witnesses at about page 60.

ttp://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/10/24/nyregion/24skakel-document.html

[REP]

65. The RFK Jr interview is laughable; not the judge's opinion

Two different things. RFK Jr is a loyal cousin and an anti-vaccine loon.

[pnwmom]

66. I don't know what interview you're talking about, but he wrote a long,

detailed, non-hilarious account of the evidence and the trial. And it turns out the judge agrees with much of what he's been saying.

He's not a loon.

[Nye Bevan]

49. Sure. And I suppose Paul Wellstone's plane was not sabotaged, either. (nt)

[Recursion]

60. Right, because the least obtrusive way to kill an old man is to crash his plane

[pnwmom]

67. Please.

He was 58. Not exactly old.

[Archae]

64. Looks like a fe people here just are scared to death of the true constant of the universe.

"Shit happens."

Guy who is in the middle of a manic episode drives WAYYYY too fast and smashes into tree.

Nutcases with axes to grind shoot JFK, RFK and MLK. (Those last names all begin with K, that must be another conspiracy!)

Oh, and Reagan.

We did go to the Moon.

"The Liberal Media" didn't lose Vietnam for the US.

Bush younger and his boss Cheney lied about Saddam to get into a war that they and their cronies profited handsomely from.

[GoneFishin]

68. So your point is that powerful righties have no problem killing for profit and power.

You have chosen the perfect example to make my point. Thanks.