Pope Francis Kisses Sick Man With Boils Showing The Healing Power Of Compassion

[joeglow3]

Pope Francis' compassionate nature was poignantly captured in this image of him tenderly comforting a sick man by kissing him on the head.

[img]?3[/img]

Though the man's face was disfigured with appears to be boils, the Pope laid his hands on his head and screwed his eyes up tightly in prayer. Earlier in his general address, he asked the assembled crowd to pray for a sick little girl that he had just met.


[img]?4[/img]

Pope Francis tweeted earlier this year, "The Pope must serve all people, especially the poor, the weak, the vulnerable." The photos really speak for themselves with regards to his genuine concern for humanity.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/06/pope-francis-sick-man-boils_n_4227595.html

[Blue_Tires]

1. I'll come clean and admit it...

I saw the thread title and read "Pope Kisses Sick Man With Balls"

[Heather MC]

141. Ummmm

Ok I'mma have to break out the double Finger wag
next time you get

are we clear?

[winter is coming]

256. You have a promising future recording audiobooks.

I'm sure you could unwittingly liven up even the crappiest novels.

[B Calm]

294. They should refund your money for those speed reading classes!

LOL

[Myrina]

328. that's a little better than what I saw ....

"Pope Kisses Sick Man's Balls"



Oh my. I *am* going to hell. If there is one.

[SidDithers]

2. So?...

The man with boils would probably prefer the healing power of modern medicine. Prayer and kisses aren't going to make the boils go away.

Sid

[rug]

7. 1) It's neurofibromatosis, not boils.

2) The "healing power of modern medicine" doesn't cure it.

3) This act of compassion does not in the least prevent the man from getting whatever treatment he is getting.

4) Go tell this man he's wasting his time and walk away.

[kydo]

12. Thats what I thought when I saw the picture - thats NF not boils

[rug]

15. It looks like a severe form of it. I can only imagine what he's gone through.

I expect we'll soon learn more about this man and how he came to be there.

[freshwest]

278. Certain from what I saw in another thread, he's been in agony for years. His is an advanced case.

[rug]

323. I can't imagine how I would handle it.

[dipsydoodle]

29. I didn't know the name of the ailment

but yes - not boils.

Such an act may at least have cheered the poor soul up a bit whilst acting as a lesson to others to not turn their back on those with such afflictions.

[DarthDem]

267. Exactly

The point here is the touching display of compassion for this gentleman.

[freshwest]

279. You got it.

[ChazII]

177. Thank you for your dose of common sense regarding NF

He probably has NF1 although I have known a few NF2 folks with the tumors. You are spot on in your second point there is no cure for NF1 or NF2.

[Beacool]

199. Poor man.

How are they treated, are they painful?

[ChazII]

207. Right now there is no cure for

this man's tumors. Some might be painful while others do not hurt. I am only going by what my friends who are quite similar to this man have told me. Some of mine hurt if touched but other-wise they don't hurt. Each NF person is different.

Thankfully, and yes, thank God that there are scientist who are actively searching for a cure. Thank God for the senators who voted for funding from the DoD specifically for NF research.

Beacool - your question is excellent and in my opinion a compassionate one as well.

[Beacool]

225. Thank you for the explanation.

I'm not familiar with this illness. I was just thinking that they might be painful when pressed (sitting, sleeping, etc.). Do they occur anywhere in the body?

[ChazII]

230. The tumors

occur anywhere on or in the body.

From the ctf.org

Neurofibromatosis encompasses a set of distinct genetic disorders that causes tumors to grow along various types of nerves. NF can also affect the development of non-nervous tissues such as bones and skin. Neurofibromatosis causes tumors to grow anywhere on or in the body.

That gentleman's tumors could be benign today but some may be malignant. Many of us are more informed about our NF than most doctors. The younger doctors know more about NF than the doctors who are in their 50's.



It would be great to learn more about this man. I would be willing to be he is a kind soul and not a bitter person.

[Beacool]

235. I agree, he probably does have a kind soul.

This thread has been an education and an eye opener. Thank you for taking the time to educate me on this disorder.

[Mojorabbit]

258. + a gazillion. nt

[Zeke L Brimstone]

313. Brilliantly stated!

You are quite right, rug.

[rug]

321. Welcome to DU, Zeke.

Don't judge DU by some of the responses here.

[Zeke L Brimstone]

367. I am basically an agnostic

However, if religious belief gives some comfort to suffering people, I've no problem.

[Jamastiene]

432. I am an agnostic too.

I see it the same way as you just stated.

Welcome to DU.

[joeglow3]

8. Yeah. We all HATE compassion

Who gives a shit if people spit on african americans, right? Simple compassion means jack shit.

[cali]

13. yes, yes.; YOU are just so qualified to say what he'd prefer

compassion and kindness are no small things, but thanks for that display of your lack of those qualities and your contempt for them.

[Yo_Mama]

146. And not being rejected for your appearance.

as so many people are.

[David Zephyr]

186. Exactly.

!

[Vashta Nerada]

26. +1

[pnwmom]

28. There is no cure for this. Love and prayer might help this man

feel better emotionally, which would be something.

[Old and In the Way]

103. You're better than this comment.

Delete it Sid.

[daleanime]

114. +1

[cordelia]

308. Really? Not from what I've seen. n/t

[QC]

329. You are far too kind. Seriously. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

104. Yeah, silly Pope should stick to the beautiful people

Pope Third Way I.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

123. You've finally out-Dithered yourself. Congratulations.

[leftyohiolib]

125. what a completely asinine thing to say, disgusting jerk

[roguevalley]

150. that looks like cysts that sometimes are genetic. what is important is that he's redirecting the

focus of a tottering immense edifice away from one thing to another. He reminds me of my favorite pope, John XXIII. Now there was a pope. Given that most people ignore or move away from him including most of us if we were around him too, having the attention of ANYONE in a COMPASSIONATE WAY the actually allows that man to be REALLY SEEN is IMPORTANT. Ask him and he will tell you. It mattered to him I am sure of it. Ask people with port wine stains on their faces how much a compassionate approach means.

[ChazII]

180. Nothing will make the tumors go away.

I have friends who look like the man and some look even worse. Check out the name Reggie Bibbs andNeurofibromatosis. Modern medicine cannot heal him either.

[sabrina 1]

194. And if he lives in the US he won't get it. But there in 'Soshulist Europe' he WILL get treatment,

although Neurofibromatosis is not at the moment, a desease that much can be done about it. In Europe, a child with this desease will receive all the available treatment necessary, and I CAN attest to this on a very personal level. VERY personal.

Interesting, are you suddenly in favor of HC for all, as they have in Europe and Canada, but NOT in the US?

Since the man in the photos is in Europe he is most likely getting the healing power of modern medicine you now seem to support, at last, as my young niece did who suffered from the same desease. She did not survive it sadly.

But thankfully she was in Europe and not here in the US where her family would have had to hold bake sales to try to pay the bills.

I can attest as a family member of a sick child who fortunately was not here in the US and DID receive all the necessary medical care for the same condition, due to the fact she lived in Europe, she thrived on the love of many famous people who came to visit sick children, like her, in the hospital and showed her that they cared. a hug from the Pope would have been a wonderful thing for her. She DID receive hugs from some very famous people who prefer to remain anonymous so I will not name them. But our family will never forget their kindness and humanity and how much it meant to a sick child.

This gesture by the Pope means so much to that man, who, hopefully is not an American citizen where he would have been unable to afford treatment, and who is getting all the treatment necessary for his illness.

Our family will always remember those famous people who showed similar compassion and this gesture by this pope is a wonderful example of what human beings ought to be doing rather than fighting to PREVENT human beings here in the US from getting the HC they need.

We will NEVER stop demanding a National HC system here as t hey have in other countries. I despise anyone who would try to deny the sick the same treatment available to people in other civilized countries.

[Beacool]

201. Maybe not, but faith does wonders for the soul.

[OhioChick]

251. It certainly does n/t

[morningfog]

209. Perhaps something other than the boils was healed by the gesture?

[freshwest]

275. Sid, I think this is more about acceptance than medicine; and being treated as worthy.

Someone has posted on the disease on another thread but I didn't read it,

AFAIK, there is no cure but the social stigma is awful. we had a thread of family who was told to leave a restaurant because their child had NF and it frightened the customers.

This may have been the first time this man has been touched in public in years. That he was kissed by a VIP shows to those who refused to even look at him as an honor.

In this crazy, mixed up world, with as much pain and discrimination as there is today and always has been, this was grace. Disfigured folks are often shunned by the majority.

I understand what you are saying that mediine could be more effective with the disease, but not in healing the heart. This may have been his coming out on the way to a hospital, for all we know.

JMHO.

[JustAnotherGen]

326. And this is why

You are always one of my favorites here! Very well said!

[freshwest]

370. That means a lot to me coming from you, thanks.

[uponit7771]

296. So it'd be better if the pope punched him in the mouth?

[Jamastiene]

431. There you are again...

showing your lack of compassion or basic human decency, as usual.

[warrior1]

3. Maybe hospital could come forward and give him some care

[Upton]

4. Is the guy with boils all better now?

[kydo]

10. I doubt it looks kind of like inherited condition like NF

[Warpy]

87. You beat me to it, that's what it is

It's not contagious but without constant removal of tumors, people become grotesquely disfigured by it.

Chemo and radiation are also used for systemic tumors.

He's still showing compassion to someone most of us would move away from. That simple gesture undoubtedly touched the poor man deeply.

[pnwmom]

30. They are not boils and he might feel better, emotionally.

It's not like modern medicine has a cure for this disfiguring disease.

[Xipe Totec]

5. When you learn to find a smile

Only then in a blazing bonfire
of infinite and superhuman love,
like St. Francis of Assisi, will make brothers
of the tree, the jungle and the beast.

And you will feel in the immense multitude
of beings and things your own self;
and will become fear itself at the abyss
and will become pride itself upon the summit.

Your love will shake the defiling pollen
that stains the very whiteness of the lily,
you will bless the sandy seashores
and cherish the flight of insects;

And you will kiss the briar thorns
And the silky petals of the dahlias…
And piously cast off your sandals
to keep from hurting the stones along your path.

ENRIQUE GONZALEZ MARTINEZ
Mexican Diplomat and Poet

[freshwest]

281. Wow. Thanks Xipe for sharing something as deep as that.

[Berlum]

297. ENRIQUE GONZALEZ MARTINEZ - the poet

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrique_González_Mart%C3%ADnez

[trumad]

6. DU members comment and show the power of douchebaggery.

Give it a rest... My god.

Not you joeglow.

[Hekate]

20. Disheartening, isn't it?

[whathehell]

22. I agree...This pope seems like a pretty decent guy, WHATEVER you think of Catholicism.

[Orrex]

43. Ain't that the fucking truth!

I'm as cynical as they come, but even I can appreciate the compassion of this gesture.

[xmas74]

54. A beautiful picture showing human compassion

and certain members crap all over it.

Disgusting,isn't it?

[Lobo27]

58. Because apparently the new thing is to bitch and complain about christians...

Last edited Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:28 PM - Edit history (1)

And then make fun of them, Its an on going thing. Hey that christian is doing something nice, yeah but he is douche, he believes in fairies and unicorns, what a dumbass. And yet we claim to be better people then the right wing fanatics.

[xmas74]

106. We've always been a target of a small group of people here on DU.

There are several reasons why but none of them has to do with the members personally.

[eqfan592]

151. I agree that some of the comments here were way out of line...

...but don't start in with the "poor abused Christians" routine. It's pure bullshit, and I'm completely tired of it.

[xmas74]

175. I never said I was a poor abused Christian.

What I did say is that there is a small group here on DU who refuses to let up, no matter what. I don't feel abused by them because I don't allow it.

From a handful of members I've received nasty comments, even private messages telling me how stupid I am to believe in the "sky man". Guess what? I've learned that there is a function that allows me to block them, which I do.

My brother is also a member here. He's an atheist and he's even admitted that some here take things too far. Tolerance means tolerance. I don't go out and tell people of other faiths (or no faith at all, unless you consider my brother jokingly referring to himself as a Whovian as his faith) how to believe. It's not my place but I also don't have to take it when others choose to make nasty comments about my faith.

[eqfan592]

179. Fair enough, but what to you qualifies as a "nasty comment?" nt

[hrmjustin]

187. Your first comment.

[eqfan592]

188. If that's the case, then you're part of the problem.

But I wasn't asking you anyway.

[hrmjustin]

189. True you weren't but it still was nasty.

[eqfan592]

213. Hardly.

I have three words for you: War On Christmas. Sorry , but some of the comments I've seen on here have mirrored those made by the likes of Faux News, and I'm sick of it.

[hrmjustin]

216. I am not a fan of fox nor the war on Christmas. And I can call out my fellow Christians for their

behavior as good as anyone else. The Christians on this site are not like that and sometimes we take a lot of crap here for our beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with someone saying I am wrong and they think my interpretation is wrong. What I don't like is the mean spiritedness shown in this thread.

[eqfan592]

220. I don't like it either, and both sides have dished it out . nt

[hrmjustin]

223. I don't see believers on this site pushing their views on people or trying to convert people.

[eqfan592]

224. Color me shocked at your inability to see it. nt

[hrmjustin]

227. Actually I would welcome your opinion on this issue.

how do believers push their views here? or try to convert people?

[eqfan592]

232. First tell me how non believers try to do those things in your opinion. Examples would be helpful. n

[hrmjustin]

237. Either one of us giving examples could be considered a call out so I think we should talk

in generalities and no names. I will say that when I make a comment on religion I am told I believe in fairy tales. Just look at this thread and some of the nasty things said about the Pope just hugging a guy.

The other day I said I believed in the virgin birth and a poster got nasty with me. I am not saying questioning my beliefs are out of bounds. What I am saying polite behavior would be nice. BTW I never question the beliefs of non-believers.

[eqfan592]

243. It's very difficult for an atheist to express to a believer how we view their beliefs without...

...coming off as insulting. I respect your right to believe whatever you like, but the belief itself is a different story. I wouldn't call your belief a fairy tale as an attempt to be insulting, I would call it that because I literally do believe it to be a fairy tale.

There are regularly posts on this forum that promote the "power of faith" that I would certainly say qualify as attempts to promote faith and religion.

[hrmjustin]

246. Posts in Religion, Interfaith, and the specific religion rooms belong there.

In GD they do not but I rarely see them. But you may see it more because of your prospective.

[theHandpuppet]

325. 3 Pope threads today on GD alone

The front page of the LBN forum was often the same. How many other misogynist, homophobic bigots warrant such a cheerleading squad on DU? Take off your blinders.

[hrmjustin]

396. I am not going to argue with you over the pope. I will say that you should alert on the pope threads

Religion does not belong in GD.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

318. Can't you see that the term "fairy tale" is insulting.

Last edited Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Fairy tales are something that naïve children believe in, not rational adults. I would suggest another term if you want to come off as not being insulting. "Irrational belief" might be a better choice, since most believers would agree that faith is not achieved by reason.

[AtheistCrusader]

348. Pretending this pope is a nice and kind, benevolent man is insulting too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

352. HATE, HATE, HATE!

[AtheistCrusader]

358. Deflect, distract, attack the messenger.

[eqfan592]

359. I'm fairly certain that if we start calling believers "irrational"...

...there are few who would thank us for it.

And really, you're going to call the highlighting of the RCC's bigotry "hate?"

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

363. It's better than "childishly naive", which is what "believing in fairy tales" means

What I meant is that faith does not come by reason. The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews admits as much: "Faith is the evidence of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

And your calling the Catholic Church "bigoted" comes off as an expression of hatred for it. Indeed, what you wrote might be called "bigotry".

[eqfan592]

366. Is calling the KKK bigoted an expression of bigotry?

This is an organization that actively discriminates against people based on sexual orientation and gender (among many other awful things). Any other organization that was not a church would be lambasted here, and for good reason.

And fair enough, from now I will call believers irrational, and link them to this post should they question it.

I don't hate Christians, nor any religious person, I just hate so many of the things they do often do in the name of their religion, and I hate the indoctrination that leads them to do these things.

[xmas74]

395. Read towards the bottom of the article

where it states that Reynolds resigned his post back in 2011 and had founded a church in 2012. An additional part of the article states that he was holding unauthorized communions.

Sounds like he decided to leave first. It would be an entirely different story if he had still be an active priest in the RCC, outspoken in his views of women in the clergy and gay rights. This says he left on his own accord, two years before Pope Francis was chosen.

After reading the entire article I would think that the excommunication was more in line with him forming his own church, though I would think unauthorized communion would be a zinger.

[AtheistCrusader]

398. Yes and no.

"Archbishop Hart explained that Mr. Reynolds was excommunicated because he continued to celebrate the Eucharist publicly after his priestly faculties were withdrawn. He was also preaching contrary to the teachings of the church."

[xmas74]

399. It reads as though the second sentence

was added on by the Archbishop, since supposedly it wasn't actually explained why he was excommunicated. If there's no official explanation by the Vatican itself any number of reasons could be stated. Maybe in Hart's view it was for that reason. Maybe he brought attention to it.

We don't know but the most obvious reason would be that he publicly resigned from his parish, actually left the church and then started his own church. Excommunication does occur for that reason. I personally knew a girl whose father was excommunicated for a similar reason: he met her mother while a priest (she wasn't Catholic), fell in love, resigned and then married outside of the church into his wife's faith. A couple of years later he was excommunicated and that was the most logical reason for it, though technically no reason is given.

[AtheistCrusader]

406. And why did he have to leave the church to express his beliefs?

[xmas74]

419. Why does anyone leave anything?

Did he really have to leave to express his beliefs? I don't know.

I'm not RCC but there's more to this story. Hell, the local parish priest is in favor of gay rights. He's made that all too clear over the years at public events. He's also made comments, in public, about how women should be allowed to be more involved in the church. He's made the comments, in public, and he's still doing just fine. Others have made comments and haven't been excommunicated.

He chose to leave. He stated his reasons. Could he have stayed and still made those comments? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know.

[TreasonousBastard]

423. Amazing! You don't see...

taking an entire world of belief and dismissing it as a "fairy tale" insulting?

And this doesn't even account for the variations in belief-- many of us "Christians", perhaps most of us, don't have any particular identification with an anthropomorphic God, but do use the structure of our churches for guidance in our lives. Buddhists, Ethical Culturalists, Unitarians, many Quakers and others are essentially atheistic, or at least agnostic as far as God goes, but still have rich religious traditions.

Let's say you claim some evidence for the essential goodness, or evil, of mankind and you base your personal ethics on that, without benefit of any gods or anything else supernatural. One or the other would be a "fairy tale." Maybe both. And there's no science that can prove anything either way. Food for fascinating discussion, but not ridicule.

Atheists are as capable of being evangelists as any Christian fundie, and really should stop, just as the fundies should stop. Discussion and explanation are fine, but evangelizing and ridicule are unacceptable.

[theHandpuppet]

306. Can I add a....

[xmas74]

236. A previous pm from a now tombstoned member

referred to me as a stupid f'ing bitch and said that all Christians are the reason why this country is hated by everyone around the world. Another pm once said that, as a Christian, I needed to be skullf-ed.

I've been a member for years and I can say that tolerance has gone down hill on DU. No one has to agree but why do some have to be so nasty about it?

[eqfan592]

245. Both of those statements were way the hell out of line, and I'm glad the member is tombstoned. nt

[xmas74]

299. The sad thing is that it happens on here more than you think.

The pm system here on DU has offered up some pretty nasty things.

[AtheistCrusader]

269. And on issues where the Church's religious dogma injures non-christians?

Like denial of comprehensive sex ed? Denial of abortion services? Statewide and by law? Denial of end of life/death with dignity protection? Denial of same sex marriage? Contraceptives. Family planning.


This is not just a 'be polite, they are in the room' sort of thing. This church's dogma foments millions opposing very basic human compassion in the ballot box and the halls of our legislatures. To spend millions nationwide on issues like blocking end of life care laws that allow for, in terminal cases, physician assisted suicide. Not just for catholics, for EVERYONE. They even lie about things. Like the 'morning after pill', calling it an abortifacient, based on a study from the 70's that was roundly debunked, and no study since has shown it makes deleterious changes to the endometrium, or prevents implantation. It is NOT an abortifacient.


I will not 'let up'. I will continue to hold up a mirror that shows this church for what it is, right back in its face. The PR offensive for the church does not erase what it is, by its most basic nature. An embrace and a kiss and a moment of tenderness between two people doesn't erase what this church has done, and continues to do, nationwide. Worldwide even.

This is not about you, or your faith. You are a bystander, and I apologize that you are in the crossfire. But I will not relent. The RCC is antithetical to progressive social ideas across practically the entire board. I MUST oppose it, and I'm afraid it won't be pretty by nature. But rest assured, I brook no ill will towards you personally. But I have some uncomfortable things to say about an idea that you may subscribe to. I cannot help that.

[xmas74]

298. I'm not a member of the RCC either.

There are progressive Christian faiths but they are shouted down across this board. I tend to give up defending myself because I've had people blast me the rest of the day and have even had them follow me from thread to thread about the subject. The fact is, in the case of Pope Francis, his simple acts are a total 180 compared to Benedict. Change can take a long time, especially in an organization as old as the RCC. Simple acts need to be commended and thoughts outside of current norm need to be encouraged.

FWIW-I'm a member of a reconciling Methodist church. We're still Methodists but we're fighting against a number of the more recent changes in the church-changes that were brought about by zealously conservative members and don't always reflect the views of the body. (The change in the acceptance of abortion and the near acceptance of same sex marriage just a few years ago has all taken a backseat to politics.)

[eqfan592]

309. The problem is that the "progressive faiths" still hold on to almost...

...the exact same scripture as the conservative ones. They also tend to roll out the "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy faster than you can shake a stick at when talking about conservative Christians.

And I don't think you'll find a single person here condemning any simple acts of kindness, we're just not willing to forget that the man doing them is at the head of a large and influential conservative organization with which we are still battling on many important issues.

No other conservative organization would get the sort of pass I see the RCC getting here. But it goes beyond just that. Folks that remind people of the facts are labeled as "hateful" and "disgusting" by many here, time and time again. Language not to dissimilar from what was PM'ed to you.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

330. Yes, there are some Christians who will trot out the No True Scotsman

Just as there are atheists who will point to a one Christian or a group of Christians and claim that they are representative of all Christians. The Hasty Generalization is just as fallacious as the No True Scotsman.

[eqfan592]

378. True enough. nt

[leftyohiolib]

138. some of the children here ARE no better than right-wing fanatics. they hate religion

as much as the right-wing loves it

[eqfan592]

152. pegging the bullshit meter right there. nt

[whathehell]

229. Bingo! n/t

[Decaffeinated]

295. As usual, there's an appropriate meme...

[Beacool]

203. It's par for the course...........

There's a bigotry against Christianity that's prevalent on this board.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

331. What's worse is that calling these bigots on their bigotry

Is considered worse than the bigotry itself. I have no doubt that if I were to make equally bigoted statements against blacks or Jews or Canadians or whathaveyou, I would be slapped down. But make bigoted statements against Christians or believers of any sort? That's just fine.

[Beacool]

336. It's the reverse of the conservatives.

In conservative blogs you better be a Christian or you'll get trashed by other posters. In progressive boards it's the opposite, if you're a Christian (it doesn't matter which denomination), someone will feel free to insult and trash your beliefs.

I'm a live and let live kind of person. I have faith and that has helped me to overcome life's problems, but I don't judge those who don't believe in God. I wish that I was afforded the same courtesy. The only thing I ask is that people respect my beliefs as I respect theirs.

[ChazII]

338. +100

You offer words of wisdom and kindness in your second paragraph, Beacool. May the last sentence come true.

ChazII - NFer and also a Christian who shares your sentiment.

[Beacool]

394. Thank you, my friend.

[avaistheone1]

57. I think it is a beautiful photo

regardless of what one thinks about the Pope, religion or of what disease has disfigured this man.

I am afraid DU has some real haters on-board.

[Captain Stern]

418. I agree.

It's a beautiful photo that conveys a wonderful sentiment. It has nothing to do with religion vs science or believers vs nonbelievers. It's just a picture of somebody being nice to somebody else.

Yet some people feel compelled to spread their ass cheeks and take a dump on it. I hope those people die in a fire. (ok..I most certainly don't hope anyone dies in a fire...i'm just trying to say lighten up, and try and see good stuff when it happens, even if you're not best buddies with the person doing the nice thing)

[LittleBlue]

65. +1

And I'm an atheist.

The douchebaggery is bordering on antisocial behavior, IMO. It's like these people see clear blue skies and desperately search for rain clouds.

[Dorian Gray]

68. For real

[840high]

174. +1

[morningfog]

212. Douchebags do douchbaggery.

[Gemini Cat]

305. Disgusting, but not surprising.

Some people just don't get it. I don't know if it's because they're blind to the pain of others, or if they just don't care.

[trumad]

310. I have to coin a new phrase for some on DU....

You know the type--- trying to show how cool they are with the anti-anything shit. The first to pop in a thread and chime in some negative shit because---well....because they think they're being edgy and cool--- but come away simply looking like idiot douchebags.

[Gemini Cat]

316. I don't know, but

"idiot douchebag" seems to cover it fairly well.

[Hekate]

9. It looks much more like tumors, perhaps what the Elephant Man had

The poor man -- it's probably been a long time since anyone touched him with compassion and embraced him.

When the body cannot be healed, the heart still can be.

[kydo]

17. NF is not what the Elephant Man had.

He had Proteus syndrome.

[Hekate]

18. It's incredibly disfiguring regardless, which was my point. Francis is more interested in his heart

... apparently.

[whathehell]

24. Yes n/t

[kydo]

33. You are correct

And I didn't mean to be short or diminish what you were saying. I don't think the Pope was trying to cure him either. He was providing comfort and compassion. And that is what was important. Most people would have seen this man and ran away. The Pope embraced him. And I agree with everything you said.

The reason I mentioned NF, is I used to do a lot of volunteer work for an NF org. And so many people think Elephant Man's Disease is NF. It is not. Many NF orgs go out of their way to explain the difference. Especially with parents of newly diagnosed children.

[roguevalley]

153. it appears that the pope read most of the red words in the new testament

Jesus hugged and held the lepers too. I applaud this.

[ChazII]

184. Kydo, thank you!!!!!!

It is rare to find someone who actually knows about NF. Thank you for helping educate folks here at DU regarding NF.
I am a second generation NFer. My son looks like Disney's version of Quasimodo due to a large plexiform tumor on his face.

Compassion and understand is what this man needs. Again, thank you as I have somewhat walked in his shoes.

[Beacool]

208. I'm sorry to hear.

It must be hard for your son and for you, people can be so insensitive and cruel at times.

A hug for you and your son.

[ChazII]

217. Your insight

is what helps many of us in the NF community encouragement.

Cruel and insensitive only scratches the surface. Our community has been told to cease having children and then this disorder would go away. The only trouble with that advice is that neurofibromatosis can be a spontaneous mutation.

I need to step of my soap box now. Thanks for the hugs.

[Beacool]

226. Thank you for giving me insight into this illness.

[OwnedByCats]

302. Ugh

People have actually said that? You'd think one would research the condition before spouting off something that extreme. I'm getting to the point where nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to things people do and say and that's not a point I wanted to get to. Such a shame. But try not to let those people get you down. It's all based on nastiness, ignorance or complete stupidity, certainly anyone with those traits are not worth your time anyway.

Best of luck to you

[ChazII]

307. Not to have children

is only the beginning of comments made by the ignorant.

Yes, it does tend to get us down at times but then we take those feelings and use them for something positive. Many NFers choose to get active in fund raising for research.

http://www.ctf.org/Learn-About-NF/Living-with-NF.html

Visit this link and to the right and towards the bottom of the page you can see the different ways to participate in research. Some folks like the Cupid's Undie Run, while others choose to participate with the NF Endurance team. I like to walk.

OwnedByCats, big hugs to you. In the NF community we have the motto, "We might have NF but NF does not have us." People like you help make our day to day life easier.

[OwnedByCats]

317. You're very welcome

my friend! Thank you so much for the information!

[kydo]

314. I got involved around 1996

I was a huge x-files fan and I had started working with a wonderful friend from Canada, (I was and still am in the Orlando Fl area) on a Gillian Anderson website. This site was just a fan site but it eventually became her official website. In the beginning people would want to send her gifts for her birthday etc. And I came up with this idea after reading an interview where she talked about all the gifts and how she would rather people donated to NF. Her mother ran a NF support group in Michigan. Gillian's younger brother had NF.

Anyway the idea was to have an online auction during May which is National NF Awareness Month. The first year x-files fan donated items and we auctioned them online. This was before e-bay. This was the first of its kind. It raised $7,000 that first year.

Not long after that Gillian's mom called me and we started working together on many things. For the next auction her mom got Gillian to donate a few things and we raised $21,000. By this time Gillian caught on and really started donating stuff and for the 3rd year we raised $98,000.

She would donate stuff like a visit to the x-files set. Or tickets the wrap party. Signed scripts, x-files props. It was crazy. In the end this auction raised about $678.000 and a lot of people became aware of NF.

Gillian was a real trooper when it came to NF. Sadly her brother passed away a couple of years ago. He was 30, and passed due to a tumor in the brain. But Gillian and her mom are still active in NF.

If I know my state flags it looks like you are in Arizona. They have some wonderful NF support groups. A lot of kids camps.

[pnwmom]

32. +1000. nt

[B Calm]

11. He better pray the guy doesn't have mercer

[Glimmer of Hope]

14. Very sweet.

[Vashta Nerada]

16. So when are we going to see stories where Pope Francis shits rainbows and pisses unicorns?

[rug]

19. Is the reality of this too much for you?

[Vashta Nerada]

23. Has he walked on water yet?

I held the door open for a handicapped person today. Where's my news story?

[rug]

25. I see it is.

[joeglow3]

37. Wow. As much as you would like to claim otherwise, you REALLY crave attention

Too bad.

[etherealtruth]

127. you have what you wanted

You deflected the attention from a lovely display of warmth and compassion and you made it about you.

Negative attention will suffice for some

[whathehell]

36. You sound like the kind of hater who would shits ON rainbows..

[Vashta Nerada]

39. I just eat them.

FYI, I hate how everyone glorifies the leader of the catholic church who is anti-gay, anti-women, and is complacent in covering-up priests fondling little boys.

[roguevalley]

155. a man did something genuinely good for another man, something that I am

CONVINCED you would not do and yet, YOU are the hero of the revolution. Sad, sad. sad.

[whathehell]

234. Yeah, I bet you do..

You spew it out pretty well, too.

It's not "glorifying" someone to give them credit for a compassionate act.

Viewing people and situations in "black and white" is a sign of an immature and simple mind

Please grow the fuck up.

[Vashta Nerada]

239. Well that's very Jesus-like of you.

[whathehell]

300. Glad you think so..

[vanlassie]

40. Do you think we need your opinion EVERY

single time you dislike a post? You seem to quite consistently negative. It's boring.

[Vashta Nerada]

41. And here I thought the function of a discussion forum is to only post nice things

that everyone agrees with.

[hrmjustin]

45. Was that needed. It was a moment of compassion.

[TekGryphon]

149. You're the kind of guy athiests and Christians can hate together

[roguevalley]

156. plus eight trillion

[Brigid]

244. You win.

That is all.

[flying rabbit]

265. Well said! nt

[whathehell]

301. LOL!

[cordelia]

311. Yes!

[840high]

178. What a sour puss you

seem to be.

[Vashta Nerada]

241. No.

I'm tire of seeing sensationalistic journalism articles posted about a guy that's anti-gay, anti-women, and covers-up priests molesting boys hugging people with disfigurements and being boasted as the greatest person that has ever come on this earth since the mythical Jesus.

And they say I'm the uncompassionate one.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

333. Yes, you are being uncompassionate

A Christian leader lives up to the example of Christ, and you sneer at it.

[Vashta Nerada]

335. The pope is complacent in the cover-up of priests fondling boys, and I'm the bad guy here?

Okay. That makes sense.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

349. There is no evidence that Pope Francis "is complacent in the cover-up of priests fondling boys"

So yes, you are the bad guy here. You are certainly filled with hatred.

[Vashta Nerada]

373. Wow.

If I am the bad guy here, I hate what you qualify as being "good".

[freshwest]

280. It's not about the Pope. He's just the messenger. We all have or will have, afflictions.

[monmouth3]

21. It's threads like this, with the few absurd remarks that make DU disgusting to me..Get a life FFS..

Low posters....

[whathehell]

27. Exactly.

[SidDithers]

31. Maybe some DUers don't think the Catholic Church should be glorified...

"Religion is an insult to human dignity" - Steven Weinberg

Sid

[pnwmom]

34. No one's glorifying the Church. Someone posted about a very kind act

by the Pope, that probably meant a lot to this suffering human being.

That is all.

[joc46224]

51. For me it's BECAUSE he's the most powerful man in the Catholic Church

I'm not Catholic, or any religion for that matter, but I do read and the sorts of things that I've read about the Catholic Church in the past several years--particularly about their leaders--makes this story such a refreshing one to read. All I can think is "How in the world did this man become Pope? How did he get approved by those in power who seem so opposite of what this man appears to be?".

It's not about the man being magically cured, it's about how it must have felt to have been had one of the most powerful figures in his world show such kindness, acceptance, and compassion right there in front of others who probably shunned or feared him. You know that it's got to be devastating to have to leave with a disfiguring disease like the one this man is suffering from. People fear you, they shun you, they don't want to touch you out of fear that what you have is catching. To have the Pope show such open compassion is heartwarming.

[hollowdweller]

80. When I was in High School

There was a lady in town who had this condition and was near as bad as this guy.

The kids used to call her warthog and laugh at her and even though I was a kid I felt really bad for her.

So yeah I remember what that lady used to experience, and the Pope doing that was all about the core message of Jesus. That we are all in it together, even the outcasts, and those maybe we see as not worthy are deserving of love and respect and human kindness.

That the truly holy are not the ones setting in a cave and meditating but the people who actually get out and help their fellow man with all his and our imperfections. Great act.

He was doing exactly the opposite and canceling out what was done to that lady I knew. Made me glad to see it.

[pnwmom]

96. And the man will carry this memory with him for the rest of his life.

And it will mean a lot to him, because he is a Catholic or he wouldn't want to be there.

I'm also wondering how Pope Francis ever got elected. It's hard to believe they knew what they were in for!

[AtheistCrusader]

276. There are a lot of issues that would relieve the suffering of a lot of people

that the church ardently opposes, in opinion, in the courts, in the legislatures, and in the ballot boxes.

Some of them suffering more, MUCH more, than even the man pictured with the pope there.

So color me unimpressed.

[TreasonousBastard]

425. So you're another in the...

"Not Good Enough" camp?

Just how would you like to see this group of a billion or so people change to meet with your approval?

Or is it just so easy to pitch a bitch on an anonymous discussion board?

[AtheistCrusader]

428. Welcome to the conversation. I already listed several material issues downthread.

[Vashta Nerada]

35. Agreed.

[TreasonousBastard]

426. You would.

[Vashta Nerada]

430. Of course.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have said "agreed".

[monmouth3]

38. Perhaps an insult to human dignity to you, not to everyone. Pray to Steven Weinberg..n/t

[rug]

52. Maybe some DUers don't think douchery should be glorified...

“World is so beautiful, but alas! There are so many assholes.” ― M.F. Moonzajer

rug

[SidDithers]

56. Oh look, another Catholic priest being sent to jail for sexually abusing children...

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/catholic-priest-finian-egan-guilty-of-30-years-of-sexual-abuse/story-fni0cx12-1226753069167

He only did it for 30 years. You'd think maybe the Catholic Church would have done something about it during that time.

As far as I'm concerned, The Catholic Church is the largest criminal organization in the world. And the Pope is the Capo.

Sid

[Vashta Nerada]

59. Yep.

But how dare we for not falling in love with him over photo ops.

[SidDithers]

60. They were fawning all over him about his choice of car too...

because he drives himself around in a little shitbox, instead of being driven in the Popemobile.

Francis has a good PR team, that's for sure.

Sid

[Vashta Nerada]

62. Yes he does.

[roguevalley]

158. no one asked you to. no one needs you to tell them what to think about an

act of kindness you would never give yourself.

[AtheistCrusader]

277. "an act of kindness you would never give yourself."

Says who?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

344. Well, someone as apparently consumed by hatred as yourself likely would not

You damn the Catholic Church for all sorts of things. Well, so what? I am very well aware of the failings of the Church; indeed, I have posted at length on some of them on other threads. But that does not mean that I fail to recognize and acknowledge and even applaud a good and decent act of the Pope.

[AtheistCrusader]

347. I'm consumed by 'hatred' for pointing out that while the PR hand of the church keeps

putting out these warm fuzzy images, the other hand of the church has people who are truly suffering by the throat? For the sake of their metaphysical claims that don't even apply to all people?

Why would a person even think to allow them a moment's respite from recognition of the church's barbarism, for the sake of one moment in time?

Just look at the comments in this thread. Substitute George Bush for the pope. If he gave this man a tender embrace and a kiss, would you be posting like others in this thread, about what a good man he is, and how you really like THIS pope, and all this optimistic nonsense...

This pope only seems moderate, because he's a centrist, and the former pope was a FAR hard right pope. Francis just excommunicated a priest in Australia because he supported same sex marriage, and women becoming members of the laity. So they kicked him out. Then he started his own church, and for that, the Pope himself excommunicated him. The order came from his office.

I will not ignore the iron gauntlet on his other hand, just because his PR TEAM offered us a picture of his velvet gloved other hand.

[Arugula Latte]

353. "Consumed by hatred"

I think it's interesting how an institution that has been consumed by hatred of the "other" (women, gays, etc.) gets a pass time after time.

[rug]

63. Is that the best you can do?

People acknowledge a very human act of compassion and you shout, "Pedophile priests!"



How stupid do you think people are?

[SidDithers]

74. No, I didn't shout "pedophile priests" in response to the picture of ...

the "healing power of compassion"

I brought up pedophile priests after you accused me of douchery for not genuflecting at the altar that is the glory of the Catholic Church.

Sid

[rug]

79. You think I accused you of douchery "for not genuflecting at the altar"?

Try again.

2. So?...

The man with boils would probably prefer the healing power of modern medicine. Prayer and kisses aren't going to make the boils go away.

Sid

[SidDithers]

83. That's not the post you replied to when you accused me of douchery...nt

Sid

[rug]

86. There are so many . . . .

[SidDithers]

92. Not nearly enough showing the RCC for what it really is...nt

Sid

[rug]

97. Plenty enough showing Sid for what he really is...nt

rug

[SidDithers]

107. And you too, rug...

but that's been pretty well known for years.

Sid

[rug]

115. Oh, do go on, Sid.

[OwnedByCats]

304. So that means ALL

priests do this? How would you like it if every time an atheist molested a kid the world assumed all atheists are child molesters? So ridiculous beyond words.

[leftyohiolib]

132. you sure he wasnt talking about you

[roguevalley]

157. yes. Steven Weinberg, the secret name of God.

[BuddhaGirl]

247. EVERY human being is capable of compassion

It's sad that you can't see that. How cynical does one have to level an attack at a fellow human being for showing compassion to that poor man.

And I say this as a very lapsed Catholic who disagrees with the church on basically everything.

[eqfan592]

248. Where exactly did he/she level an attack on ANYBODY for showing compassion? nt

[sabrina 1]

339. Maybe because they are Democrats, DUers appreciate Compassion when they see it and are not

interested in bigotry of any kind, such as refusing to accept kindness from people simply because of their ethnicity and/or religion.

Maybe this is why we have two parties here in the US. One is filled with nasty, ugly minded haters of anyone they don't agree with, the other is for those of us who want a better world, a world where humanity trumps hatred for those different from us eg. Among other things such as HC for all Americans.

I belong to the second party and totally love what this Pope just did.

[TreasonousBastard]

424. Maybe some DUers don't see this...

as glorifying anything-- just a random act of kindness from the leader of the largest religious organization on the planet showing us how he understands the words of Jesus and how we should be.

[HereSince1628]

42. Whether you believe or not, compassion and kindness are works people can do.

Seeing the invisible sometimes means "seeing" what -IS- visible.

[Ohio Joe]

44. Is the fucker going to change any church policies?

Or are we just supposed to love him because of his photo op's?

[Vashta Nerada]

46. YOU'RE A MEAN POO POO HEAD!!11111

How dare you don't fall in love with him because of photo-ops!!!!11111111ELEVENS

[rug]

67. See, what you purposely misinderstand is that picture is church policy.

[Ohio Joe]

73. It's the cute pope pic of the day

We have been getting these every few days since the guy won his seat. Seems very much like there are a lot of people that want this guy to be loved even though he is doing jack shit to change the shitty policies of the church. Until he decides to do so... Fuck him.

[rug]

75. Do you see anything cute in that picture?

[Ohio Joe]

81. It's just more shit to make him a warm and fuzzy pope

What about policy changes... Think anything will actually change?

[rug]

84. I see. You consider an act of human compassion to be "more shit".

[Ohio Joe]

90. I consider the policies of the church to be shit...

I consider the constant 'look at what a great pope he is' stories to be 'more shit'.

[rug]

93. What do you think of his action today?

Phony? Insincere? Calculated? Shit?

[Ohio Joe]

100. That would about cover it

With the abhorrent policies he supports why should I think any different?

[rug]

102. Because human beings tend to recognize an act of humanity when encountered.

[Ohio Joe]

108. Phony acts don't deserve recognition

They deserve to be pointed out as such... If he had any humanity he would do something to change the disgusting policies of the church. All the cheesy photo op's in the world won't make those changes, he will have to do it... Or even better, those supporting the churches policies will stop following them and stop giving money to support them.

[rug]

113. If it's phony, it deserves to be pointed out by more than trite canned talking points about the RCC.

So far you've covered six of the usual nine and still managed to miss the humanity of this gesture.

[Ohio Joe]

117. And you have yet to acknowledge any failings in the church...

To you they are just 'talking points'... Thats pretty fucked up.

[rug]

122. If this thread was about that I would. But it's not.

It's not about pancakes either much as you may dislike them.

[Ohio Joe]

124. Ahhh.. only pope praise allowed...

Fuck him.

[rug]

129. I hate pancakes.

Fuck pancakes.

[AtheistCrusader]

273. You may have missed that, some of us are unimpressed by the 'humanity of this gesture'

because basic human compassion toward others is the norm, not some superhuman feat of majesty from such an important, and revered ordinary mammal.

[SidDithers]

94. "cute pope pic of the day"...

fucking nailed it.

Sid

[jberryhill]

206. Yes, this can change policy

If he succeeds in refocusing attention throughout the church on caring about people, then that is the start of the road to ultimately changing policies which are inconsistent with reflecting their own ideal of the love of their god.

Surely you can understand that.

[Ohio Joe]

252. ummmm... He's the pope...

Infallible in matters of religious doctrine? No? He could make changes if he wanted... These endless dog and pony shows we are getting in GD to show what a great guy he is are not going to do it.

[ChromeFoundry]

259. Are you even a Catholic?

Why do you even care about policies of a religion that means nothing to you and your attitude of hatred? Seems to me he is doing more in this single picture to make the world better, through a kind gesture to a single man, than you have with your countless posts that do nothing but criticize everyone but yourself. Sorry, but, you kinda suck - hard!

[eqfan592]

261. Wow, wtf, dude?

You really think the Catholic church and its polices only impact Catholics? If you do, then you're living in a damn dream world. Look at how actively they've campaigned against things like contraception, gay rights, etc. They don't exist in a damn vacuum!

I mean for fucks sake, look at what the actions of the Catholic church have done to make the Aids epidemic so much worse by spreading disinformation about condom usage??

"Attitude of hatred" my ass. I'm glad the Pope is showing compassion to this sick man, because his church is helping to kill thousands more elsewhere.

[ChromeFoundry]

263. Doesn't look like they have changed your views...

on any of the claims you have cited. People make their own decisions - if they choose to follow, lead or do nothing is their decision.
Do you get this fired up about GMOs, air pollution, tainted food and illegal chemical dumping? Things that are profit driven that you don't have a choice in being affected by.
There is a lot of hate to be dished out...this just seems trivial since you have a choice is what you wish to believe.

[eqfan592]

286. Once again your fail to see the point.

The church regularly acts to influence people outside of their faith, including through the legislative body. Are you trying to say that the church gets a pass on these activities because it's a religion?

And yes, I get just as fired up about a lot of issues (tho not GMO's because there's no solid evidence to show they are dangerous). I think this irritates me a bit more only because so many progressives seem so willing to forget the evils of this organization because its leader has demonstrated since basic human kindness, and any attempt at reminding them of these evils is met with derision and scorn. I can think of no other conservative organization to which some progressives would react in the same way.

[Ohio Joe]

319. Non-sense

He perpetuates evil against women, LGBT and anyone of a different religion... Fuck, he is head of one of the most evil organizations ever known to man. Yet... You want to compare the murder, bigotry and misogyny he represents to a handful of posts that oppose such things... Yeah... Good thing you are not being duped through your fear of death into supporting such a PoS... oh wait...

[ChromeFoundry]

340. I don't push my beliefs (or lack of) on others...

And I am not about to throw crap at other people's beliefs because I am angry about how my life has turned out, and have a need to blame it on someone that a lot of people like. If someone makes a gesture of kindness that someone deserving feel good...why would I want to discredit the act?

Good thing your parents taught you not to be a dickhead to everyone else that doesn't share your exact views... oh wait...

By your logic, that makes your parents perpetuators of evil and intolerance of others. So in your words: "Fuck them. They are pieces of shit!"

Whatever - I hope you have a better day... To help, here is fine drawing of a bunny to help...

[Ohio Joe]

343. Calling out homophobia is being a dickhead?

Calling out misogyny is being a dickhead?

oh... It offends your beliefs and they should be allowed to trump the hatred you support...

Yeah...

[ChromeFoundry]

368. No. Lack of tolerance for others beliefs = dickhead.

Just because you are on a crusade to support something you strongly believe in, let's just say gay rights, do you expect everyone to share that same passion about it? Or should those that have no interest either way, just stuff a sock in their pie hole?

In contrast -
Does that mean you shouldn't try be tolerant of people that believe a fetus is a living being? Do you need to protest their public marches because that is not what you believe? Or do you think that since you are not planning on getting knocked-up any time soon, maybe you should not judge what a woman does with her body, within the confines of our current laws?

I'm certain you will try to pull something out of context and get your buddies to pile on and make some strawman out of something I never stated.. For the record, You do not offend me and my belief (or non-belief). But the fact is still the same - You are being a dickhead to others around here, and that is my only point. This post was about a man hugging another man to let him know that he cares about him. If it was the Dali Lama or Donald Trump... the act stands on its own as a decent act from one human to another, and yes, in a very small way, it made the world a better place for the two individuals involved. It had no affect on your life what-so-ever. You were the one that had to drag this into a pissing contest. You did not contribute to making the world a better place for those on this thread, and I don't see images of you dining with lepers... If making the world a better place is NOT your prerogative, then how can you be so vocal about human rights for others topics?

[eqfan592]

374. So you're saying we should tolerate the intolerant. gotcha.

And trust me, theirs no need to pull anything in your post out of context, it's bad enough on it's own.

[Ohio Joe]

375. Yes... I expect everyone here should support full equal rights for gays and lesbians

In fact, it is part of the ToS:

Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic. To be clear:

This includes any post which states opposition to full equal rights for gays and lesbians

; it also includes any post asserting disloyalty by Jewish Americans, claiming nefarious influence by Jews/Zionists/Israel, advocating the destruction of the state of Israel, or arguing that Holocaust deniers are just misunderstood. In determining what constitutes bigotry, please be aware that we cannot know what is in anyone's heart, and we will give members the benefit of the doubt, when — and only when — such doubt exists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

And yes, anyone who does not should just stuff a sock in their pie hole. Fuck 'em, they have no place here... Fucking trolls.

"Does that mean you shouldn't try be tolerant of people that believe a fetus is a living being? Do you need to protest their public marches because that is not what you believe? Or do you think that since you are not planning on getting knocked-up any time soon, maybe you should not judge what a woman does with her body, within the confines of our current laws?"

No, I have zero tolerance for people that believe they have a right to control women because their fairy in the sky says so. Fuck them as well.

"I'm certain you will try to pull something out of context and get your buddies to pile on and make some strawman out of something I never stated"

Please... Clearly state your stance on these matters so they cannot be taken out of context.

[ChromeFoundry]

382. ...And ToS includes: "religions or lack thereof"

You have had a field day on being intolerant towards Catholicism across this entire thread.

So... as your were saying about pie holes...

...because their fairy in the sky says so. Fuck them as well.

yet another borderline ToS violation.

Please... Clearly state your stance on these matters so they cannot be taken out of context.

This thread is about a simple act of kindness. I like it when people are kind to others. Doesn't matter who is the giver. Doesn't matter the recipient. Kindness never caused a war. When someone feels the need to get angry over an act of kindness, and lash out at others, it usually means they are a miserable person or simply a dickhead. That is my stance.

Oh, I forgot.. you are on the MIR Team for this go around.. so I'm sure these rules do not apply to you! Thanks for your service, I'm sure you are making the world better through your service and willingness to see the world through an unfiltered, unbiased view.

[Ohio Joe]

384. So... You do not want to clearly state your position?

I'm shocked... or not

[ChromeFoundry]

386. I did.

On the topic: "Man kisses sick man = act of kindness"
I was very clear on my stated position.

As for bringing in off-topic baiting questions to attempt to undermine the value of my views on the topic at hand... Start a new thread and if I have something constructive to inject, I will. I simply disagree with your actions towards others on this thread. I don't know you and I hope to be a part of another thread where I see you treat others with an ounce of respect that you too deserve. I didn't come on here to put down any groups or belief. I came on this thread to let you know I think you are being rude to others. If you don't think you are being rude and intolerant of other people's beliefs... maybe you need to reread your posts from another perspective - if that is even possible for you.

[Ohio Joe]

388. No, you did not... You hinted at them and then claimed I would take you out of context

Why be afraid to state yourself clearly?

"If you don't think you are being rude and intolerant of other people's beliefs... maybe you need to reread your posts from another perspective - if that is even possible for you."

What perspective should I see that allows for homophobia or misogyny? Please explain that perspective to me... I'm listening.

[OhioChick]

389. "I think you are being rude to others."

Thought I was the only one that noticed.

[eqfan592]

390. We should ALL be intolerant of intolerance.

This entire thread was about more than an act of kindness,. All over the place you see people talking about how great this pope is, as if he's actually halted the church's discrimination based on gender and sexual orientation, or worked to bring the sex offenders in the church to real justice, or fixed any of the other major issues the church has.

He was nice to a child, a sick man, and said that they shouldn't concentrate as much on discriminating. Color me completely unimpressed.

I have to wonder if all Christians feel their faith is somehow entwined with the RCC as it seems any time the churches discriminatory positions are highlighted, many Christians treat it as a direct assault on them and their personal faith.

[hrmjustin]

262. We may disagree about the pope but I agree these posts belong in religion.

[jberryhill]

332. And the next guy can change it back

I get the impression he may be more interested in a deeper cultural and mission refocusing of that organization, which has a greater potential to change minds than simply telling people what to think.

[sabrina 1]

341. Any thoughts on the man he is being so kind to? Or is it all about simply hating someone because of

their religion or ethnicity or some other perceived difference?? I am so happy to see that incredible gesture of kindness to a human being whose, in their entire life probably experienced little kindness due the that terrible desease. I imagine he too was called names because he is 'different', in fact I would bet on it.

It is wonderful to see kindness no matter who it is coming from. Imho, of course.

[Ohio Joe]

346. Equating religion and ethnicity makes zero sense.

Religion is chosen, it is not a perceived difference, it is a choice to hate that a person makes. An act of kindness is all well and good but it does not make up for continued evil.

Let me know when he starts welcoming the LGBT community into the church and be treated as equals, allowing them to be the humans they are instead of telling them they are evil... Then we can talk about perceived differences.

Let me know when he is going to allow women to be treated as equals instead of second class citizens responsible for mankind's fall from grace... Then we can talk about perceived differences.

[sabrina 1]

371. Let me know when a gesture of kindness to a person who has experienced little kindness is their

lifetime should be dismissed or called evil because of the religion of the person who is making that gesture.

This pope has begun to address the issues you mentioned, the first pope to do so, admonishing Right Wingers for their attacks on Gays and their focus on abortion rather than, as he pointed out, the issues that actually need to be addressed such as the devastating poverty in the world. If you do not see the significance of someone in his position slapping down the anti-Gay and anti-abortion crowd, that is your problem.

I remember being told, possibly by you in fact, re some of Obama's policies, that 'he can't change things instantly just because you want him to, he has to do it slowly' or words to that effect.

I would imagine, if that was a sincere assessment of some of Obama's disappointing policies, the same would be said about this pope beginning to try to turn around centuries of wrong policies.

Otoh, if those words were merely to protect someone, who himself btw, is a Christian who was, up to a short time ago opposed to Gay marriage, then I wouldn't expect any consistency.

[Ohio Joe]

379. Comparing the pope to the President also makes zero sense...

"I remember being told, possibly by you in fact, re some of Obama's policies, that 'he can't change things instantly just because you want him to, he has to do it slowly' or words to that effect."

I very may well have said that... I'm reasonably certain I have said similar in the past, though I do not remember who I said it to... I do believe it though and support that statement. The President is not the supreme leader allowed to do whatever he wants, the pope is and that makes a huge difference.

[sabrina 1]

393. You are wrong. In fact, a US President has far more power to affect policy changes that

adversely or positively can directly affect the lives of other human beings than a pope does.

The only area where a pope has power like that is on matters of Doctrine, which is a very narrow framework. He can have opinions, and this pope has lots of them but he does not have the power of a US president to influence law eg, that would affect the lives of others.

I among millions of others across the globe, am very happy to see how this pope has used his position to try to end the kind of fundamentalism that is very prevalent in THIS country. The US president is not a religious leader and is far more free to hold opinions that are counter to religious beliefs. Yet it took this president a long time to go against his own faith, and admit that all Americans are entitled to the same civil rights. Religion should play no role in the politics of a democracy such as this one. We PRETEND to be a secular state, yet our leaders have all been Christians and display their faith constantly, including the current presidents, whose own religious beliefs influenced his opinions when in fact they should not have.

Religious leaders otoh are not politicians who represent all of the people in a particular nation, so we know what to expect from them. I don't expect politicians to push their religious beliefs on me or anyone else, yet they do in this country.

[cbayer]

47. Displays of compassion like this mean something.

And taking this opportunity to attack him means something as well.

There is plenty of room to hate on the RCC. This is not one of them.

This man may not have been kissed for a very long time.

[hrmjustin]

50. It is no surprise to me that people are just mean at times.

[cbayer]

55. I'm no longer surprised. Sad, but not surprised.

You keep teaching by example, justin.

[pinto]

71. Agree. On all those points.

[hrmjustin]

48. I can not say I am surprised by the responses to this post.

It just figures.

[TwilightGardener]

49. This poor man obviously suffers tremendously--I hope his spirits are lifted. Getting blessed by

the Pope is a very huge deal for Catholics.

[gvstn]

91. Thank you.

If the Pope's compassion lifts this man's spirits for a few hours or a few days then the Pope has done well.

I am glad this pope has been able to rise within the ranks of the Catholic Church and still hold true to its most basic tenants of compassion for the sick and the poor. Some people are more spiritual than others. I like what I see. (Church doctrine is another matter.)

[spanone]

53. i like this Pope.

[liberalmuse]

61. I'm cynical. I'm an asshole.

I think this is very sweet and I sort of like this pope. And I'm an aetheist.

I know people want to make jokes or lament that this display will somehow prevent this man from seeking out science (he probably doesn't even have the money to do that, so no, it wouldn't.), but I literally felt my heart melt when I saw this picture. The power of compassion pretty much defies all the petty shit people want to throw out there to pretend this doesn't make them uncomfortable.

[pinto]

64. Whether or not it's NF1, I'll speak as someone with NF1. Kudos Francis.

In 60 years, I have never met anyone that looks like me. I remember each and every empathetic gesture I've ever received. Including the simple act of normalcy - seeing beyond the physical difference to just see me.

My NF1 expressions are easily obscured by clothing. I can only guess at this guy's experience. The Pope's gesture brought tears to my eyes.

One positive side effect, I learned early to look beyond "disfigurement" in others. Not ignore it but accept it as part and parcel of the whole person.

Say what you want about religion. This man's gesture was priceless. Believe me. ~ pinto

[rug]

69. This is the best I can do, pinto.

[cbayer]

70. I was hoping you would weigh in here, my dear friend.

[Dorian Gray]

77. I'm happy

that the Pope's gestures make a difference to you. Hopefully they do to many others who are suffering.

[pinto]

137. Thanks folks.

[ChazII]

193. Pinto, will you take 1 more hug?

My bumps as I call them can no longer be easily hidden. As I said in another post somewhere in this thread my son looks like the Disney version of Quasimodo. He was called freak and monster from his stroller days until 6th grade. Finally, in middle school his peers turned human and the names ceased.

Maybe right now should be NF Awareness month instead of May.



To anyone else with NF or

To learn more please visit ctf.org
Join the NF Endurance team if you are runner. But please educate yourself. NF folks are some of the most emotionally strong folks I know and I have been luck to have participated in marathons with the NF team.

[pinto]

204. Of course. And back at you both.

[Beacool]

218. I'm glad you spoke up.

In this world where cruelty, cynicism and malice, seem to prevail far too often; a simple gesture of compassion is a ray of sunshine among the muck.

I'm sorry about your illness, it must have been so tough growing up with it, kids can be very cruel and adults can be insensitive.

[pinto]

233. Thanks. This is something I wanted to weigh in on.

(aside) I've never really seen it as an illness. It's medically benign in my case. But definitely a physically graphic difference among everyone else. That's been the thing. And it's been an interesting experience.

Oddly, I never felt different, personally. I was and am exactly who I am. So I see it from another point of view. I've never been anything else.

Other people's point of view changed some of that.

[Beacool]

238. I'm glad that in your case it's benign.

It's good to be true to oneself. When one is very young one cares too much about other people's opinions. As one grows more mature, one learns not to care so much. At this point, I won't take crap from anyone. If someone constantly brings me down, I simply stay away from that person. Life is too short. Who needs the aggravation?

[hollowdweller]

66. Really Great Pope

All the really important things in the teachings of Jesus, the new pope really seems to be trying to emphasize them.

I always thought the Dali Lama was a really incredible religion leader. New pope really shaping up to be.

[Historic NY]

72. My middle name is Thomas...

"Thomas the doubting one" and I'm also a twin...this man Francis is restoring my faith, he wishes to serve all.

[Kelvin Mace]

76. "Showing The Healing Power Of Compassion"

So, the guy was healed afterward?

[Vashta Nerada]

78. Hahaha.

You win the thread.

[rug]

82. You come in second for laughung at incurable disease.

[Vashta Nerada]

85. Yes.

I was laughing at the incurable disease. I definitely wasn't laughing at Kelvin Mace's remark:

So, the guy was healed afterward?

[rug]

88. The situation is so fertile for raucous laughter and high fives.

[Vashta Nerada]

95. Who needs a doctor when compassion can cure everything?

[rug]

99. Are you confusing his actions with a HuffPost headline?

[dead_head]

118. I see a pattern

I don't think doctors can exist wihtout compassions.

For a while I see hardcore atheist acting exactly like the ones here. They crap on good things about religion because it does'nt fit thier - belief system-

The people I know that are always pushing atheist are getting more and more crazier and acting like the ¨you win the thread¨ comment.

I'm from Montréal and we have this whole quebec charter value and I don't like religion but that does'nt make this charter right. And each time I debated it with people, the ones that came out vulgar and assholish are the super anti-religion hardcore athseist.

Interesting.

[rug]

126. I was going to say welcome to DU but I see you've been here five years. Post more often.

We've been following the Quebec Charter over in the Religion Group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/121895698

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1218

[dead_head]

196. thanks

I'm from Montreal, and I have a very strong opinion about this charter.

Long story short; it's not about religion but about getting votes from the part of the population that's afraid of immigrants.

Really strong atheist have co-opted the secularism word to change it to anti-religion (in my opinion)

[Kelvin Mace]

133. I am an atheist

and have no love for this church or this Pope. Yet, I am genuinely pleased to see him do things like this, and wish he would do more of them. I criticize religion for the harm it does, and praise people, not religion, for the good they do.

I am not anti-religion, but if religion is going to insist on inflicting its beastly society on our political process, then they should pay their dues (i.e. taxes) like the rest of us. I am not a big fan of bullies who abuse people, then claim exemption from the law because "religion".

[immoderate]

202. You see a pattern? Like what? Atheists don't like religion?

Be careful not to confuse a confirmation bias with an epiphany. Most of the atheists I recognize in this thread are supportive of the Pope's gesture. And the kvetching atheists, though prolific, are relatively few in number.

Even I am feeling a little misty.

--imm

[dead_head]

291. True

I have to agree.

It's a particular type of atheists that are being close-minded.

Most of them are not.

[pinto]

128. How can you glibly dismiss an act of compassion based on a headline?

Say it was an MD kissing the man's head. The "healing power of compassion" would apply as well. The MD would likely know there is no medical cure. Yet, an act of compassion may well be the best the MD could do. And a healing gesture on his part.

What if it was the guy's mom? Or dad?

I'm taken back by what I feel is your shallow take on this one simple thing. Perhaps not shallow, but conflated with your take on religion. Please don't use this to conflate the two.

Thanks.

[Kelvin Mace]

142. If, I may give all the benefit of a doubt

It is getting too damned easy to be cynical about things people do, especially leaders, politicians, celebrities and religious figures. All of these people have given us plenty to be cynical about. I agree with your take on the "healing power of compassion" as you mean it, but the headline writer revealed his cynical aims by failing to properly identify the disease, instead making the lame Biblical reference to "boils".

My annoyance at the writer, led me to a snarly remark, which then provided fodder for this current disagreement.

I needed to be more specific in my words in this instance, rather than going for the cheap laugh as I did. In essence I have committed the same sin as the headline writer, and for this I apologize.

I seek to be a better person, and have failed at it so far. Perhaps tomorrow I will be more successful.

[pinto]

148. You already are.

No need to apologize. I get it.

[roguevalley]

162. every time a kid goes on a make a wish venture it is compassion helping

to heal a moment in time for someone sick. healing compassion. You don't have to get well to be healed. Some people on this thread will never know that. I hope they never get sick in a way that makes them outcast to others.

[Vashta Nerada]

240. Is it an act of compassion to hide the fact that priests molest boys for decades?

The pope is the very definition of hypocrisy.

[roguevalley]

160. no one said that as you well know. it was one man giving love to another.

sue us.

[VanillaRhapsody]

191. Do you think all illness is visible to the naked eye?

[COLGATE4]

264. Are you really that obtuse or do you

just play at it for kicks?

[Vashta Nerada]

268. This is just an exercise on how so-called christians aren't so christ-like.

[hrmjustin]

272. What the pope or DU?

[COLGATE4]

322. No, it's an exercise on how some people

can't resist the opportunity to crap on those intellectually inferior people who don't see the wisdom in their snarky pronouncements.

[Kelvin Mace]

121. I think

he was referring to my jibe at the headline writer who debased an act of real human compassion for a cheap headline. A cheap, inaccurate headline.

[rug]

131. No problem.

He hasn't had a good thing to say about this throughout the thread.

[Kelvin Mace]

134. *sigh*

Just wanted to clarify my remark. I am sorry this is turning into a friction point. What Bergoglio did was very humane, and I resist other cynical imputations.

[roguevalley]

164. life is a process. everyday is a new battle. At least you are aware of the

struggle, my friend. that makes you my hero.

[Warpy]

89. No, but I'm sure it made him feel a hell of a lot better

to have some human contact instead of seeing everybody drag their kids away from him in case it's contagious.

It's not.

[Kelvin Mace]

98. I know it is not

and he also doesn't have boils.

While I applaud the Pope's action, the headline writer has to go. He took a actual decent act of human compassion and cheapened it into click-bait.

[Warpy]

101. No shit.

"Disfigured man" would have covered it.

[Kelvin Mace]

116. The writer thought he was being clever

making a "Biblical" reference.

[ChazII]

198. Warpy

My son has a plexiform tumor in his face due to NF1. The social worker on the cranio-facial team called my son facially challenged and scolded me for using the term 'disfigured'. I shook my head and told her that her term was ridiculous.

Thank you for helping others to learn that NF is not contagious.

[Warpy]

242. Bowdlerism at its worst!!

The craniofacial social worker was a dimwit for that one. Disfigured is correct and that's what they were called in to fix.

I think sometimes the clumsy term only makes the whole thing worse.

There's a worse one than NF, bullous pemphigoid. It's auto immune, not contagious, but even well educated and experienced nurses want to double glove just to walk past the room.

I've only seen a couple of cases, one flown in to Mass. General from Argentina. It's quite rare.

[pinto]

105. I'll go there. You've no idea.

Folks can laugh all they want. It has nothing to do with religion, per se. It's about simple compassion, which is powerful. And healing.

Yeah, probably not healing in the medical sense. Yet compassion is a two way street. Everyone heals a bit along the way.

[Kelvin Mace]

112. Again,

my problem is with the headline writer.

[pinto]

130. Got it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

190. You mean this guy's condition hasn't caused any scars on his psyche?

Wow....you must be psychic to be able to tell that this man carries no inner wounds at all!

[Kelvin Mace]

221. Again, read my posts

My dig was aimed at the headline writer. What was done was great, what the headline writer did was cheapen it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

231. I think that's a little knee jerk...

For example when this guy wrote this headline...

New Yorkers Drop-Kick Michael Bloomberg And His Legacy Over The East River

He didn't mean they literally kicked Bloomberg over the river...


It's a bit of poetic license...

[Old and In the Way]

109. No one is more skeptical than I am.

But 4his is 5he 1st Pope of my generation that seems to be practicing the teachings of Christ. For that, this practing ex-Catholic gives him the kudo's he deserves.

[devils chaplain]

110. I'm an atheist...

And I can admit religion does have some positive aspects. This kind of compassion is religion at its best -- loving, accepting, and valuing the least fortunate among us.

[Sissyk]

111. This thread is so much of what's wrong in this old world.

People that can laugh, make fun of, and bring up the rape of children in this thread, have zero compassion so they can't relate.

Hell, I'm not catholic. I don't worship, or even like, any pope. But, I can understand the compassion he is showing to a fellow human being that probably never even gets touched because of his disease.

Compassion, people! It's a human emotion. Not a religious emotion.

[leftyohiolib]

136. so much hate from democrats -

[Arugula Latte]

354. So people who are concerned/angry about the institutionally protected rape of children

have no compassion, huh. Wow, we've gone through the looking glass.

[seabeyond]

119. i am liking this man. many of the catholics i know deserve this. nt

[leftyohiolib]

139. i am too he surprises me

[jsr]

120. It's useless to kiss people with terminal cancer.

I'd rather shake hands with that guy than corporate whores and incurable assholes.

[AtheistCrusader]

140. That man leads an organization that denies compassionate care for people in just the situation you

describe.

There are people dying of bone cancer in states where medically assisted suicide is not an option in part because of the political opposition of this 'church'.

Painkillers do practically nothing for it.

A humane option we give to our pets, I was legally denied from extending to my own father when he begged for it, and I'll give you one guess which 'church' bankrolled the opposition to legalizing that option.

[rug]

143. Are you suggesting this man kill himself?

[AtheistCrusader]

163. No. I am not.

I am pointing out this is not a compassionate organization. I addressed this in my first post in the thread. Which you read.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

350. The only thing you have managed to point out

Is your lack of compassion. Again, the Pope does something good, decent, and compassionate, and all you can do is sneer.

[AtheistCrusader]

357. If you actually read my posts, you'd know why the church is worthy of nothing less.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

365. I read your posts

HATE, HATE, HATE is an accurate summary of them.

As I said, I am well aware of the failings of the Catholic Church. In fact, it's quite likely that I know them better than you do. (Does the name Edgardo Mortara mean anything to you? How about We Remember: A Reflection on the Shoah?)

No, you make your hatred of the Catholic Church quite apparent with each of your posts in this thread.

[AtheistCrusader]

369. Ok, those are good examples within the context of 'compassion', the issue in question here.

However, both instances happened well before the current pope's reign. I am referencing injuries perpetrated daily by this church under his leadership. Things that this pope could stop hurting people over, today.

Not to diminish the issues that you just referenced, but there is reason to continue to bring constant pressure upon the church to reform some of these current political issues it has embroiled itself in.

For instance, it is one thing for the pope to tell his flock 'you may not commit suicide, for the risk to your eternal soul', and it is quite another to lobby politically to prevent ANYONE from having that option in dire, terminal, horrific circumstances. Which his church does, on a regular basis, everywhere.

My argument is predicated upon the material fact of what this church is doing, and continues to do, right now, to EVERYONE, worldwide, member of the church or not. My conveyance may be colored by the fact that I am offended and upset by it, but it remains a material objection, not irrational emotion.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

377. You come across as a person consumed by hatred.

Assisted suicide is a bad example. There are many people, not just the Pope, who consider it to be immoral. Jack Kervorkian is still vilified by many, not only Catholics.

Basically, you are saying that you do not approve of people taking a moral stance and acting on it. Or, rather, you have set yourself up as a moral spokesman, and damn those who take a moral stance you disagree with.

[AtheistCrusader]

380. It is an excellent example. The church presumes to speak for people who aren't even a member of that

faith. They spend MILLIONS on this issue, to deny it for everyone, regardless of their faith, or lack thereof.

The catholic church is the single largest, and most effective opponent of death with dignity legislation. I have seen people suffer, directly, as a result of that opposition. Their opposition is predicated upon a metaphysical thing they can't even prove exists.

I do not have a soul. It's not a real thing. I am merely a human being. I DEMAND that this option be respected, and available to me, if and when I need it. I will fight ANY group that dares to claim ownership of me, or invented metaphysical properties of me, and dares to tell me what I can and cannot do with myself. I am not their hill upon which to plant the flag of their dogma. I am a free human, not property, and they have no right whatever to remove a private medical option from my potential use. I am male, but their position on abortion is the same vein; to remove a private medical option that should be between an individual and their physician on a case by case basis.

They have no right. It is not a compassionate position.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

383. In other words, you object to people who try to live by their moral principles

How remarkably priggish of you. You apparently expect people to make up their ethics as they go along, and

I oppose torture in all cases. According to you, I should not work to stop other people torturing. Or should I?

[AtheistCrusader]

385. This isn't about them living by their principles. This is about them forcing ME to live thier princi

ples. I am not a catholic.

I expect a rational basis for ethics. All signs point to torture being immoral. Studies show it doesn't work, not as an information extraction tool, nor as a punishment to incentivize others to not commit XYZ crime. It's just inflicting pain for the sake of pain, and has been shown to be used on innocent people at a very high rate.

There is no rational basis to oppose self-requested assistance to die in terminal, painful, tragic medical cases. There is no rational source to indicate there is a soul, let alone a hell for it to go to, beyond death.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

420. Suicide is not immoral as far as you are concerned

Well, Catholics believe that it is. So you would have Catholics saying "We believe that suicide is just as immoral as torture, but we must not do anything about it." In other words, you are insisting that Catholics abide by YOUR ethics, while whining that they want you to abide by their ethics.

That's called "having it both ways".

What's more, you insist that Catholics buy your belief that there is no such thing as a soul, which appears to lie at the heart of your support of suicide.

So you set yourself up as a moral and religious authority, and damn those who disagree with you because they not only disagree with you, but have the temerity to live by their own beliefs.

[AtheistCrusader]

421. Wordsmithing.

I have no problem with Catholics that tell themselves/adherents that they have a soul and that suicide = eternal damnation of that soul. Whatever people want to tell themselves to feel better about whatever, I don't care.

But they are making a claim upon MY life, when they tell me that per their morals, *I* am not allowed this option either.

Let's substitute abortion for medically assisted suicide for terminal patients. Still feel like defending their anti-abortion ethics, extending their rules to non-members?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

422. In other words, you insist that they must accept YOUR moral code.

So if someone, let's call him Chick Deney, accepts torture as moral, you must not say him nay. You are, after all, foisting your moral code on him, and you abhor such an action.

[cbayer]

154. Compassionate care and assisted suicide are two very distinct things.

Your are conflating them in order to score points against the church.

How in the world do you imagine that you have the ability to say what this man would want?

I am sorry that your father had to suffer and, as a supporter of assisted suicide, I agree with you that it should be permitted.

But where it is, it is for terminal and irreversible illnesses that are progressive. This man would not likely even meet the criteria.

What a freaking cheap shot. Not surprising but pretty alarming.

Edited to add: The Catholic church supplies a large amount of the compassionate care available in this country.

[AtheistCrusader]

165. By all means pretend my first post doesn't address this.

Talk about scoring points.


"The man he is comforting may not be interested in it, but there are people so genuinely sick, and in pain, without cure or hope of recovery, that there is an option, a last resort, that some people would willingly choose to end their pain and, be at rest.

This church opposed it. Not just for members, this 'church' opposed it for EVERYONE, member of their faith or not. "


Edit: Also, pretend I wasn't responding to someone who specifically raised the issue of terminal cancer.

[roguevalley]

166. then why don't you start a thread on that and get off this one.

[AtheistCrusader]

172. Because I will not turn a blind eye to whitewashing an organization like this.

[roguevalley]

192. kewl. thank you for pointing out the whitwashing.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

351. Nor will you give up an opportunity to HATE, HATE, HATE!

I am certain you don't give a damn about the man the Pope showed compassion to. You are so wrapped up in your hatred that you can't.

[AtheistCrusader]

356. Actually, I am cautiously optimistic for him.

Researchers in the UK have discovered an astonishing mechanism by which his condition might be cured, and hundreds of other diseases afflicting millions worldwide.

I posted the link a couple times elsewhere in this thread.


And, you really don't know a thing about me. Don't pretend you can diagnose my emotional state over the internet without meeting me.

[AtheistCrusader]

135. Sorry, but there is an important issue captured in this photo. And the Church cannot escape it.

Not while I'm around, they can't escape it.

The man he is comforting may not be interested in it, but there are people so genuinely sick, and in pain, without cure or hope of recovery, that there is an option, a last resort, that some people would willingly choose to end their pain and, be at rest.

This church opposed it. Not just for members, this 'church' opposed it for EVERYONE, member of their faith or not.

Washington State, Death with Dignity act. (I-1000)
Top donors in opposition:

Connecticut Knights of Columbus: $250,000
Knights of Columbus: $75,250
Washington State Catholic Conference: $70,394
Archdiocese of Seattle: $55,000
Catholic Health Association: $50,000
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops: $30,000

The healing power of compassion includes recognizing when some people (not the man pictured, apparently) are ready to move on. This church opposes that.

So don't come to me with nonsense about the church's healing power of compassion, when people like my father had to FUCKING SUFFER the last 10 months of his life, far beyond the point in time when he ASKED for assistance to end his suffering, because I-1000 was not yet law.

This church worked to force people like my father to suffer. To tell him (a catholic) that he would burn in hell if he committed suicide, to work to systematically deny any legal recourse for doctor assisted suicide even if he relinquished his faith...

That's not compassion.

[leftyohiolib]

144. iirc suicide ( as well as murder) is a sin. is it not a sin anymore?

if it is how can the church justify it
he ASKED for assistance to end his suffering, because I-1000 was not yet law. you blame the church for the lack of a law?

This church worked to force people like my father to suffer. the church does not want people to suffer

the church felt it was protecting his soul which is more important than the body.
i am sorry for your loss it sounds painfull to both of you

[eqfan592]

159. you missed the point of his post entirely. nt

[leftyohiolib]

200. no i got it he missed mine- but it's hard to see thru the hate

[eqfan592]

214. No, you really did miss it. and you are a perfect example of that. nt

[leftyohiolib]

219. well it's nice to be good at something

[AtheistCrusader]

181. I don't care what the catholic church defines it as, for it's members.

I care what it's input helps define it in law for, for the entire populace.

16 years before I-1000 there was another effort to legalize doctor assisted suicide in the state. It failed. It would not have, if not for the catholic opposition alone.

My father would then have been free to use that option.

I'm not mad at the church for not creating a law allowing it. I'm pointing out that it helped DENY people, even those who were not members of the church, this option.


I do not have a soul for the church to protect. They do not own me. They have no right to 'extend' this sort of 'protection' to me, or anyone.

[rug]

145. "Not while I'm around, they can't escape it."

Oh, thank goodness. And here we all were watching our critical faculties crumble.

[roguevalley]

168. bwahahahahah! I love you, rug

[AtheistCrusader]

170. This whitewashing covers up the fact it's not about compassion. It's about ownership.

They want to plant a flag on your body and tell you what you can or can not do with their property.

Not buying it. People need to take notice.

Until you can walk in the room and take a terminal patients pain from them, take it upon yourself, and carry it for them, you have NO SAY IN THEIR MEDICAL OPTIONS TO ADDRESS IT.

NONE.

This church is a habitual offender too. Got pregnant? Carry it. Dying of cancer? Carry it. Suffer. Doesn't matter if you're catholic or not, by crikey, YOU WILL CONFORM to the laws they set out for you.


But we'll pray for you! And kiss you. That's all the compassion anyone EVER NEEDS, right?

No thank you.

[COLGATE4]

327. ^^^^^THIS!!!

[TreasonousBastard]

427. The Catholic Church doesn't believe in assisted suicide...

it flies afoul of the Seamless Garment teaching, as do abortion, the death penalty, murder, and a few other things. One may disagree with their teaching on these matters, but I can't see how they don't have the same right to push for them that we all do with our beliefs.

Abortion is contentious, but the rest of them, including suicide, have few advocates for changing the Church's position. American medical ethics are intensely struggling with this, as are many families and individuals, and the Church has enough problems that keeping another can of worms closed seems a good thing. From my own experience I've seen some families look to end suffering, others look to hold on to the last thread of life. It's never easy, and individual priests, rabbis, and other spiritual advisors, along with the doctor, have a lot more involvement than the pope or the Church.

The Church has, for its own reasons, to have a policy and that policy is suicide is sin. But, at the level of real life, the Church can choose to look aside.

[AtheistCrusader]

429. My state has approved it.

Over the money, lobbying, and objections of the Church. It took a couple tries. Came too late for people like my father, but we got it done.

State by state we will fix this, over their objections.


As I mentioned to another poster above, it would be one thing for the church to prohibit it to catholics, and other for them to work to prohibit it for everyone. It's not really my business if the church wants to prohibit it for members, but they make it my business by trying to prohibit it for me too.

That photo that started this thread, suggested as an instance of the 'healing power of compassion' flies in the face of real world results of the church's political lobbying on several issues. It's literally the opposite. If we are going to talk about the church's compassion on one issue, it is worth mentioning its lack of compassion on other issues.

[Bluenorthwest]

147. This man does not have boils and in my opinion it is cruel and exploitative to say that he does.

Although Francis is a bigoted fool in many ways, I doubt he'd approve of the way this man is being made use of by this writer.

[roguevalley]

169. I think the man being mentioned doesn't give a crap. He's being noticed in a

good way by someone who might by doing this make his personal life better by it.

[AtheistCrusader]

283. I agree. I do note that some of the news organizations are retracting or correcting

their earlier articles, calling it 'boils'. (which refers to an infection, only.)

[bunnies]

161. I dont understand why this is news.

If religion is all it says it is, shouldnt this type of thing be commonplace?

[hrmjustin]

167. The media is the one playing this up. The pope is just doing his job.

[bunnies]

173. Thats kinda what I was thinking.

Seems like everything this guy does is newsworthy. Is it SO unusual for a pope to act in a compassionate manner? Because if so... thats really sad.

[hrmjustin]

176. I agree it would be sad. I believe I have seen popes do this before.

I think he is getting attention because people like him.

[bunnies]

182. Ah. That explains it.

I generally ignore the Pope threads but the title of this one had me wondering. I dont have any knowledge of previous Popes to speak of, so no basis for comparison. I thought it was probably something unusual which made it newsworthy. Im glad to hear that its not (unusual).

[jberryhill]

210. That may be Francis' point here

I think you are right, and I believe he would agree with you.

This should not be news, and he is demonstrating that it is, unfortunately, news.

[bunnies]

215. Well...

I guess Im glad theres a Pope who is overtly acting like a Pope. Seems like such a small gesture of compassion. Something I'd expect from any "Person of God". Though, Ive also come to expect much worse. *sigh*

[jberryhill]

222. I think he's pretty clever

And knows exactly what he's doing.

Zillions of people of all faiths or no faith engage in acts of compassion every day. That a prominent Christian has done so should not be news. He knows it will be news, and it should shame the rest of the leadership in his church.

[bunnies]

228. Certainly seems that way.

Good for him. And for all Catholics. Yet... the cynical part of me wonders if membership is down. Either way though, a good (liberalish?) Pope is a Pope Ill welcome.

[closeupready]

171. This really ... wow. I'm almost in tears.

What a beautiful gesture. But in a good way.

This guy maybe really is different.

[David Zephyr]

183. Good for Pope Francis.

I'm not Christian, but I like this Pope. A lot.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

185. As a seriously lapsed Catholic -

who pretty much hates the Vatican for a whole bunch of reasons, I will say that I am sure this gesture by Francis meant a lot to that man, and to many others who suffer from such diseases. For their sakes I am happy.

[seveneyes]

195. Good for the Pope. Now ask why would God allow such disfigurement to anyone

There is no good answer.

[hrmjustin]

197. No there is not. It is a question I ask all the time as a believer.

Why Lord?

[ChazII]

211. When my son asked me this question

I told himGod did not do this. It was a misfire in chromosome 17. For those with NF 2, chromosome 22 is the culprit but not God.

[Beacool]

205. What a lovely gesture.

It's obvious that the man the Pope is blessing has faith, if not he wouldn't have been there. If the Pope's blessing and prayers bring hope and peace to this man, who are you (the naysayers) to pooh-pooh it?

The Pope is leading by example, many people would have been repelled by this man's appearance. He's teaching his flock the value of compassion.

[Brigid]

249. This was a lovely gesture.

And it must have meant so much to this suffering man.

As for the naysayers, shame on you!

[eqfan592]

250. Yeah, shame on people for shedding light on the fact that the man is still at the head of...

...and organization that is so beyond fucked up in so many ways as to not even be funny.

Good on him for showing compassion to this person, and my heart goes out to that man. I view the Pope in the same light as I view GWB when he does something seemingly compassionate.

[Brigid]

253. A thread about a simple act of compassion . . .

And people have to crap all over it. That's about par for the course around here anymore.

[eqfan592]

254. It's not just about a simple act of compassion, it's about the person doing it.

You think if this was just any random person doing this that there would be a similar reaction? Of course not. But this is the Pope, the head of a large, world spanning organization with about a billion skeletons in its closet. An organization that is in direct opposition to many things the vast majority of progressives support. So forgive me for not going all weak in the knees when he demonstrates compassion towards somebody, something I would expect from any person who would like to be considered as a decent human being.

[Brigid]

257. An act of decency sends you into a tizzy.

For myself, I'm just going to take it for what it is and not let you naysayers spoil it for me. Have a good evening.

[eqfan592]

260. Way to completely miss, several times over, the point.

For about the billionth time now, it has nothing to do with "an act of decency." At this point I just have to assume you're being obtuse.

If I were to share one of the many stories floating around about the compassionate things George Bush has done, I wonder if people would be as inclined to talk him up as an amazing and caring man, in spite of the policies he supported that we all opposed so vehemently.

[Vashta Nerada]

274. I know, right?

Where's the compassion for all the little boys that were fondled by priests while this pope continues to cover it up?

[OhioChick]

255. I really like this Pope

He appears to be quite a compassionate man.

[jsr]

266. How many in here would kiss a leper for $100? $1,000?

Look, the old dude brought a ray of sunshine into the poor man's life.
What the fuck is wrong with that?

P.S.: Yeah, I know neurofibromatosis =/= leprosy.

[flvegan]

270. Wow. The day has finally arrived where I don't know how to express my contempt.

None of you know this person. It would seem he came to this other man, the Pope, seeking refuge. His belief seeking healing. Something that maybe this may, this person, in his station in life could deliver.

Who the fuck are you to judge him? No seriously, who the fuck are you? Whoops, didn't drag my pet politics into it because the forest isn't for the trees.

What would you say or think if that was you and that was your belief?

When your token vegan shames you for how you treat another person, well, you're doing it wrong.

I'll be happy to address all questions or comments in my usual fashion.

[AtheistCrusader]

282. Who judged *him*?

I judge the pope and the organization he controls/represents. No opinion toward the man in the photo beyond my sympathy, and, my hopes that efforts like this one pay off:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/exclusive-jawdropping-breakthrough-hailed-as-landmark-in-fight-against-hereditary-diseases-as-crispr-technique-heralds-genetic-revolution-8925295.html

[eqfan592]

284. Exactly. these folks have become experts at setting up straw men. nt

[flvegan]

290. Word salad.

Hippity hoopla!

[flvegan]

288. You judge a person in the photo yet reserve judgment on the other.

That's an intriguing take. Care to share?

[AtheistCrusader]

320. I've already explained it.

The pope is not a compassionate man. Not on the whole and in context. He is the figurative and literal head of an organization that actively works to:

1. Prevent compassionate, voluntary end of life care including Physician Assisted Suicide/Death with Dignity statues across the nation, and fights those laws with millions in political spending. An option that some people use to end suffering that cannot even be assuaged by large doses of morphine, to mask the pain while they are asleep. People who suffer for MONTHS, towards an inevitable death anyway. This is NOT compassion.
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Washington_%22Death_with_Dignity_Act%22,_Initiative_1000_(2008)#Contributions_2
2. Prevent same sex marriage laws, again, spending millions nationwide. Which leads to situations like one partner in a hospital, and another force to sit outside during the final moments of their life. This is NOT compassion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/us/politics/16webhosp.html?_r=0 (Lisa Pond lived not far from me)
3. Ban abortion/late term abortion. Forcing women to carry to term children that aren't going to survive anyway. This is NOT compassion.
http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?id=20&compID=39


These are not progressive, compassionate positions. The pope could change any of them, and he has not. This sort of opposition injures people who aren't even catholic.

So yes, I do judge the pope, and his entire organization, from the ground up, on ALL issues related to 'compassion' when I see this sort of charm offensive underway. I'm not buying it.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

403. and yet from the little i know of you, and the little i know of the pope, the pope seem the more

compassionate of you two.

all i can judge people on(not that a final judgement is made) is by the actions and words I've seen or heard personally. and the current comparison based on what i know has you coming out worse *shrugs*

[AtheistCrusader]

408. I dont care what you think of me.

I do care what you think of these issues. That church, and I have official positions on those issues.

Which do you identify with/approve of?

That's what's important. I don't care if you think I'm a bloody-minded bastard. But I care what you think about same sex marriage. I care what you do with that belief, especially when you exercise your power as a member of the electorate to help or hurt others. I care about your motives.

Think of me as an asshole. I'm fine with that. Does me no harm. I can take it.

But there are people out there, suffering right now, some of them, suffering because of the official policies of this church, and it's political activities and activism.

I'm not important. The pope is not important, beyond his ability to sway or channel massive amounts of resources. Millions of dollars in political spending, and millions of minds, tied to votes, are important.

[OwnedByCats]

315. This reminds me of the

pit bull threads, don't you think? Anyone who posts a positive news story will always end up with some who have to shit all over it. Evidently it's the same for the Pope and the peanut gallery shows up to lecture everyone.

[Arugula Latte]

355. Sorry, but that's a false premise.

People aren't "judging" the man. They are mostly tired of PR shots being used to whitewash the policies of this institution. "Oh, this pope is so wonderful so everything is hunky dory in Vaticanland!" Even savvy liberals are falling for this ploy.

[freshwest]

271. That poor man. Good work by Francis. Thanks for posting.

[Hekate]

285. Hearts need healing as well as bodies do. The man has an incurable and painful disease. That said...

... This is easily the most appalling and hateful thread I have ever witnessed on this board.

Thank you and to those who expressed compassion and understanding.
Thank you and to those who opened up about their own struggles with this disease in order to educate us better.

The rest of you -- who I cannot name because of rules about calling out other DUers -- you know who you are and now we know you for what you are. Go to -- oh never mind, just continue to live in the Hell you have created for yourselves.

[eqfan592]

289. We'll just keep fighting the progressive battles against this conservative organization...

.. while you guys sit here and pat yourselves on the back for how awesome you are. It's not hell we live in, it's reality. A reality many of you seem to have forgotten.

[cordelia]

312. You're quite tedious in your negativity and intolerance.

[eqfan592]

362. I'm intolerant of intolerance and bigotry, yes.

As for negativity, my only negativity right now is directed at so called progressives that forget their better judgement and senses because of a nice picture. Perhaps I could start sharing pictures of GWB doing nice things so you can highlight how "negative" I am for highlighting the jacked up things his party says and does.

[BuddhaGirl]

345. your "reality" seems so negative and cynical

and you are patting yourself on the back quite heartily for how awesome you think you are, attacking a religious person showing a fellow human being some compassion.

I'm happy I don't live in that kind of reality...it would truly be such a yucky world.

[eqfan592]

361. The reality where the RCC is a conservative organization that fights against...

...gay rights, women's rights, contraception, etc.? That's the reality we ALL live in. If you choose to ignore it then that's your prerogative.

[BuddhaGirl]

364. LOL

I was raised Catholic, and in the early 1970's my younger brother and the younger brother of my best friend were both molested by a parish priest when they served as altar boys. We heard about 10 years ago that this asshole was defrocked, but he never went to jail.

So yes, I'm quite aware of the "reality." However, I am not going to (and neither does my brother) live in the negative existence you seem to want to inhabit.

[eqfan592]

376. So you've never once called out an organization for the messed up things it supports or does?

Because that appears to be all that one needs to do in order to have a "negative existence" in your book.

Also, sorry for the pain your family experienced in the church.

[Demo_Chris]

287. The vulnerable? Tell it to the raped kids padre. nt

[JDPriestly]

292. Regardless of your personal beliefs about theology, it is wonderful to see a Pope, a religious

leader who shows so much compassion.

[GeorgeGist]

293. Where is the picture of the healing?

[sl8]

324. Can you photograph that part of a person that compassion can heal? n/t

[OwnedByCats]

303. I apologize if someone said this before and I missed it

but this reminds me of when Princess Diana went to visit AIDS patients in the hospital. She would hug them and be very close to them. Back then there were still some ignorance about the issue, people who were scared to catch it just being within feet of a sufferer. Whether you liked Princess Diana or not, she showed the world that not only was it SAFE to show compassion, but that these people DESERVED compassion, regardless of how it was contracted. A grand gesture like that can make people think, especially those who loved and admired her.

[jberryhill]

334. Well, if someone mentioned that...

...then I'm sure it was immediately followed up by others pointing out that she was a member of a tyrannical hereditary monarchy, or something to that effect.

[OwnedByCats]

387. Oh definitely

Not everyone liked Princess Diana and I have seen negative remarks on this board about her, even though I believe she was mostly liked. Even some who were anti monarchy couldn't help but like her, but for others they disliked her just for being a Royal, even though I believe she did an awful lot of good things. However when she died, I was living in Britain at the time, the outpouring of grief in that country, and really around the world, was tremendous.

While I don't agree with the Catholic Church on certain things, the Pope did something good and positive for someone who really needed that acceptance, I'm not going to take that away from him.

[Vashta Nerada]

337. Princess Diana wasn't complacent in the cover-up of pedophilia.

She also wasn't anti-women and anti-LGBT.



But whatever. Keep telling me that I'M the bad guy here.

[ChazII]

342. VN, you are not the bad guy but

you might guilty of is what any the vast majority share - not being compassionate to those who are facially different.

No, I am not painting society with a broad brush. Just been there as an eye witness as to how the facially different are treated. Christians, Tea Party folks, Atheists and Progressives are equal when it comes to mocking and being cruel to this segment of our society.

Just ask my friend Reggie Bibbs. http://www.reggiebibbs.com/ He has started a foundation called Just Ask. He has a double whammy in some folks eyes. However, you will have to click on the link to see this better not bitter gentleman.

[Vashta Nerada]

372. I understand there are physical disorders

that get people shunned or mocked in society. I, however, don't judge. I feel bad for those individuals.

However, using the pope in a photo op and calling him compassionate when he's covering up many scandals in the catholic church isn't something I like to see. If he truly was the shining beacon of compassion, he would go after priests who commit pedophilia. If he was truly compassionate, he would understand why LGBT people want equality, want to marry, want to love without being shunned by the church. If he really was a compassionate individual, he would understand that women should play a different role in the church instead of being subservient to the men who run it.

I'm not going to apologize for not being swayed by a few pictures from a photo op.

[ChazII]

391. It is admirable that you stand for your beliefs.

It has been my experience that very little compassion is given to those who are physically different. They are called freaks and monsters and people have run screaming from them. They HAVE been DENIED jobs, access to public places like swimming pools and restaurants. They have been asked to leave places like swimming pools and restaurants for the way they look.

Like you, I am not going to apologize for someone in the public spot light FINALLY showing it is okay to touch and acknowledge those who are different. When television, Hollywood and others are just as vocal about this issue as they are about the ones you cited then I might feel differently.

I believe that I understand, at least I hope I do, your pov. The Pope does represent an unbelievable evil in regards to the pedophiia. Maybe, just maybe when the LGBT are finally accepted and be able to marry whom ever they wish and when women are allowed to be priest, then those who are facially different and those who have tumors covering their bodies will finally be allowed equality. You undoubtedly know that neurofibromatosis does not discriminate even though humans unabashedly practice this barbaric behavior.

Edited to add: I have been a witness to these evens because they happened to my son. When he was in 2nd or 3rd grade an elderly couple asked me take my son out of the restaurant as his face made them lose their appetite. As a junior life guard patrons of the pool asked management to have my son leave the pool area because he was scaring their child/ren. Both times management spoke up on behalf of my son and politely told those lodging the complaint to "take a hike" and take the business elsewhere.

[OwnedByCats]

392. I don't remember saying you were the bad guy

And Diana wasn't liked by all, just for other reasons. Nobody expects you to suddenly like the Pope just because he did something kind, it's more about the message. That's all. I can give credit to people I don't agree with politically, religiously or otherwise if I feel they did something good. You don't have to like the Pope, but why at every opportunity do people find it necessary to add their 2 cents in when it's really not appropriate? If you want to discuss what it is you don't like about Catholicism, you can open a thread about that. This thread is not about that, it's about the positive message about this particular topic, not about Catholic policy.

[pacalo]

397. +1.

I thought of both Princess Diana & Mother Theresa who were both loving & compassionate role models.

I'm not Catholic, but I do like what I've seen about this pope.

[OwnedByCats]

404. I agree

While I'm also not Catholic, I'm actually Church of England (or Anglican as called here), I can appreciate the gesture for what it is. He does seem more down to earth than his predecessors. He seems like a good guy.

Mother Theresa and Princess Diana were both influential in the area of compassion.

[Silent3]

360. If the condition were communicable (which I don't think it is in this case), would it be...

...considered compassionate, or just crazy to do such a thing?

If it's just a matter of getting over how this man looks, where there's no big medical risk, in order to help the man feel acceptance and compassion, I can see doing something like this myself, and would commend anyone else for doing the same.

If this gesture involved any significant risk of contracting a disease, I know I'd hold back. Seeing someone else take such a risk I think my feeling that it's a crazy thing to do would overwhelm any credit I could give the person for compassion.

[mr blur]

381. So what? Isn't that his job?

If he'd cured him, now that would be news.

[hrmjustin]

400. Folks the Pope did a good thing. You don't have to agree with him or the church but he did a good

thing.

[eqfan592]

401. I don't think you'll find anybody here disagreeing with that.

That really was never the point of contention.

[hrmjustin]

402. I disagree.

[eqfan592]

405. Disagree all you like, but i didn't see anybody saying this wasn't a kind act.

I did, however, see plenty of people try to accuse folks of saying that. The worst I saw was some folks writing it off as a publicity stunt.

That being said, there are over 400 posts now on this thread, and I may well have missed something. Bit it never appeared to be the central issue of contention.

[hrmjustin]

407. Read posts 2 and 16. read the other posts they posted and their responses.

[eqfan592]

410. The posts were clearly cynical, but i didn't see them say it was an unkind act.

And to be frank, given all the negative things the church stands for, I can understand a bit of that cynicism, and would say most progressives would be similarly cynical with most any other conservative organization.

[hrmjustin]

411. A member who posted in this thread has this condition and did an OP last night for

bringing attention to the issue. The poster who wrote 16 gave him a facepalm. I thought that was rude.

No some people on this site push too far. I agree the church is wrong and we should stand up to them but the responses here were mean.

[Vashta Nerada]

412. Ok.

1. The person who wrote that OP never mentioned in that OP that he/she had that condition. 2. The facepalm was for the second OP being started in GD about the kissing pope pictures.

[hrmjustin]

413. The pope kissed a sick man and your posts were very mean about it. WHY?

[Vashta Nerada]

414. I explained it 100 times already, to you and others.

[hrmjustin]

415. You never responded to me.

[ChazII]

416. Hi VN,

I am the person with NF1. And in post 3 I did share that I was a mutant.

If a person must do about the the thread I started than that person must have never walked a mile in the man's shoes. He faces discrimination 24/7 which is something you have not seemed to experienced. Lucky you.

[Vashta Nerada]

417. You shared in post 3.

I didn't read post 3. I read the OP.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

409. i like this popes stance on poverty/general human compassion

very much

even if i disagree with everything else