Here's a suggestion for everyone venting that Barbara Buono didn't get the help she "deserved".....

[brooklynite]

(let's forget about a bunch of State Party hacks endorsing Christie....we're talking about not showering her with cash and Presidential support)

How about, next year, you withhold support from the nine Senate seats, 11 Governorships and the dozens of House seats that are competitive, and for which we'll need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars? And just for good measure, don't come out to vote. That'll teach them a lesson.

[Fumesucker]

1. So you're saying we should follow the example of our Democratic party leaders?

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. Did you miss the single most important word ...

in the OP ...

COMPETITIVE?

[Fumesucker]

4. Party solidarity isn't important?

That's not what I've been hearing on the DU.

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. Funny ...

I was going to raise that exact point ... So now, after witnessing 3 1/2 years of President Obama and Democrat bashing and being called all kinds of party blinded partisan for supporting President Obama and Democrats .... Now party solidarity is important?

So wait ... let me up-date the rules ...

DU ... the place where Party loyalty/solidarity is frowned upon .... unprincipled, even ... except when it can be used to be critical of Democrats.

Do I have that right?

[Fumesucker]

31. Being critical of Democrats != Endorsing Republicans

They really are two different things.

It's interesting that the cohort most likely to call for Democratic solidarity on the DU has also been the most forgiving of those Democratic politicians who endorsed Christie.

[Liberal_Dog]

38. +1000

I have noticed that too.

[Fumesucker]

39. After I wrote that I realized that there is one notable exception

Which has changed my perception of that poster quite a bit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. Just out of curiousity ...

What is/was the notable exception?

And, how has your perception changed (and about what)?

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. Whoa …

Where have I commented on Democrats endorsing Christie? I hadn’t mentioned that … and neither had the OP, nor did you … until you needed a tangential point.

And BTW, was the OP was not about being critical of Democrats … If I recall, the OP was about Democrats’ lack of financial and endorsement support of a Democratic candidate, in a (arguably) non-competitive race.

[Uncle Joe]

2. In Buono's case it wasn't just a matter of cash it was 50 Democratic Endorsements for

her Republican Opponent.

I don't believe progressive or liberal Democrats should follow the example of the "practical," and/or "moderate" variety in New Jersey.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Thanks for the thread, brooklynite.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. How much does a Presidential endorsement cost?

Oh, are you thinking the apresident was too busy to endorse the Democratic candidate?

[Fumesucker]

7. Such an endorsement would have caused havoc with the bipartisan comity in DC

And besides, Obama wouldn't want to be seen supporting a loser.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Only by supporting a Republican can we beat a Republican

So many dimensions to this game...

[scheming daemons]

14. the President didnt support a Republican

Bullshit meme, Manny.

Not endorsing Buono is not the same as endorsing Christie.

By that logic, I can rightfully claim that every time you bash the President, you are endorsing the GOP.

[Art_from_Ark]

43. Well, Obama did support Blanche Lincoln

in her primary against a more liberal Democrat in Arkansas. And then Blanche went on to become the ONLY incumbent Democratic Senator from Arkansas to lose to a Republican challenger since Reconstruction-- and she got a major butt-kicking at that.

[Fumesucker]

45. Pragmatic moderate centrism cannot fail

It can only be failed.

[scheming daemons]

12. when a President endorses a sure loser, blame for the loss gets transferred to him

It is politically stupid for the President to endorse a lost cause.

His endorsement would've had no impact on the outcome.... maybe Buono loses by 400,000 instead of 500,000..... but the narrative the next day becomes "President unable to lift Buono to victory" and "President's falling popularity sinks Buono".

Manny knows this... and is being disingenuous, as usual.

[cali]

17. ack. that's just lame. first of all I challenge your claim

that some of the blame is transferred to him. What you appear to be really concerned with is that a whiff of "being a loser" could be transferred to him. So what?

And you can't possibly know that it would have had no impact. Had he campaigned with her and had dems supported her, it could potentially have made it a much closer race.

[scheming daemons]

18. nothing he did could close a 500,000 vote gap...and you know it

Attaching himself to a doomed campaign would be political malfeasance ... and any advisor that suggested he do so should be fired.

For folks looking for an easy bash of the President, they'll latch on to this.

Buy the President was correct in maintaining his distance from that campaign.

[cali]

20. not by himself, of course. And this isn't about bashing hime

First of all, if he'd actively gotten behind her months ago, other dems, particularly those in NJ, would have done so too.

Secondly, even if it didn't entirely close the gap it could have narrowed considerably.

We need to support dems. It's that simple.

[treestar]

32. And the same people would be criticizing him for it nt

[Bluenorthwest]

33. What harm can come from a lame duck's endorsment of his own Party's candidate over a man

who is potentially the next nominee of the opposition Party? Seriously. Would it disturb his afternoon's reading? Thwart his ambitions for future races? Malfeasance? Supporting a Republican over your own Party's candidate is disgusting.

[scheming daemons]

40. he didn't support a Republican. false narrative

He didn't comment on that race at all.

That's not the same thing as endorsing a Republican.

[HappyMe]

19. I could see people lining up to blame Obama

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2013, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

for Buono's loss had he endorsed her.

The bottom line is the fact that Dems just didn't show up to vote for her. I personally never give a crap about who is endorsing who. I take a look at what the candidate is saying (in a primary situation).

Even with endorsements, I don't think she could have won. Elections are not won with endorsements alone. I think she should take a hard look at how/ who ran her campaign and how it was run - and don't do that next time.

[NCTraveler]

30. "blame for the loss gets transferred to him"

Who cares. He does not have another election to campaign for. And if you think he needs to keep his powder dry for the next piece of legislation, that is bunk. No one will care who he endorsed when fighting for legislation. How do you think he would have been hurt if he would have endorsed her?

[Zorra]

6. Better yet, how about withholding support for republicans? nt

[TheKentuckian]

9. Especially when we are talking a bully, asshole of a far right winger.

Maybe not quite Birch Society/TeaClown right wing but easily a notch over in the same agenda but not dumber than a rock and/or batshit crazy territory.

The Democrat wasn't a disaster by any means, a fucking Angel from heaven compared to some who get vigorous support from all corners and The Kingpin ain't no "exceptional" Republican, he isn't even a Crist and a far cry from a Specter.

Christie is fucking awful, the rationalizations are ridiculous.

[scheming daemons]

16. Christie is awful

..but he wasn't going to lose no matter what we did as Democrats.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Real strategy at times says 'If I can not beat you to the finish line, I will make sure you cross it

looking tired and sullied'. To win the next one can require losing the first one. Instant gratification is for weak minded money grubbers. This crap will doom our Party.

[cali]

11. your op just seems silly. I haven't seen any posts

that suggest that anyone should do anything of the kind to teach anyone a lesson.

I find your choice of language interesting "showering her with cash"?

Your op attempts to divert attention and make light of the issue. It's a legitimate discussion and you attempt, rather poorly, to mock people who are addressing it.

[scheming daemons]

15. it is not a legitimate discussion

It would have been politically foolish for the President to endorse Buono.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Then Party politics are a waste of time and money.

The end.

[fadedrose]

46. We need good people to run against popular Republicans

How you gonna get'em to run if they think about what happened to Buono?

Christie was popular because of his acceptance of Obama's help and graciously thanking him publically for his help. That made him hard to beat.

The President should have made some effort to attend at least one affair with her, or a teevee commercial at the least...

For future democratic candidates....

[SomethingFishy]

21. And here's a suggestion for everyone defending Democratic support of Republicans...

STFU.

Mind you that's just a suggestion.

[Fix The Stupid]

22. I fucking don't get it at all.

How many posters have been shown the door for the mere appearance of supporting a right wing cause, or for posts or supporting anything that appears to help the republicans win elections?

Then the democratic party just abandons this election and the republican wins?

Is this what happened here?

The Democratic leaders just rolled over and allowed the repub to win because the election 'was not winnable'?

Is that really the argument being made?

[HappyMe]

25. I'm not defending them at all.

It's crappy what they did.

But the fact is is that the Dem voters seem to have stayed home.

[bowens43]

36. I agree completely

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Your posts attacking Democrats both candiates and voters are hugely harmful

Also harmful is letting candidates in races getting great attention go unsupported in every way. Your methods are short sighted and undermining of our Party, which is not not really a national Party.
The chance to undermine Christie was right in front of you, but you either could not comprehend it or wanted to see Christie win without a stain on his image.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. I won't ignore them

But I won't forget the National Leadership OR the local party or the abject neglect from the NJ State Party.

No - no - no -

I will pick and choose who I will support. There will be no PAC/DNC/DLC type donations going forward.

IF someone is deserving I will donate time and money. If not - they get nothing.

[Skraxx]

28. Some People Have No Understanding of the Concept of Limited Resource and Capital Allocation

In addition to complete ignorance of strategy and tactics. But hey! This is the internet, where everyone is a sniper in the peanut gallery and smarter than everyone else and absolutely knows without a doubt that their way of doing things is best and will always have awesome, magical results that that produce instant win Utopia.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Democrats should support Democrats. If they are too broke to use cash, they should use words to

offer that support. Those who spent months carefully crafting 'Christie can't fail' materials and telling our own voters not to bother assisted Christie.
Democrats should support Democrats and oppose Republicans, always. To any and every extent that is possible, it must be done. To do otherwise is to be a virtual Republican. Those who refused to support OUR candidate helped THEIR candidate. Helped create a contender, which was what they wanted all along if you ask me.
Laying down and rolling over is shitty strategy for many reasons.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. Here's the thing

And just for good measure, don't come out to vote. That'll teach them a lesson.

Booker can win without my vote. He is still NOT my first choice - but I still voted for him.
Menendez is not up for election.

The NJ-7th can never ever eveeeeeeeeeeeeeeer be won by a democratic candidate. It will not happen. Forget it. We've tried time and again and it can't be done - so enough of the pollyana stuff folks!

So what is it I have to get out there and do again? :rotfl:

[bowens43]

35. what a rediculous rant.

[cthulu2016]

37. Wouldn't "I know you are, but what am I?" have saved some keystrokes?

[Chan790]

44. How about if we put the blame where it belongs...

on the candidate that ran the worst Democratic campaign for major office since Martha Coakley lost to Scott Brown.

How can you expect the money, effort and endorsements of others if you can't be bothered to run a more than half-assed campaign? She never showed any fight or fire until she lost, then she directed it at her own party for not doing more to prop up her dead effort.