One by one, Pope greets hundreds in wheelchairs, laments society’s rejection of the disabled

[rug]

By Associated Press
Updated: Saturday, November 9, 9:25 AM

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis has greeted hundreds of people in wheelchairs one-by-one — part of a special gathering in which rows of seats were removed from a Vatican auditorium to make room for the disabled visitors.

The pontiff, who has made championing the downtrodden a key plank of his papacy, lamented that society tends to “hide physical fragility” and reject the disabled. He encouraged those with physical disabilities to banish any feelings of shame, and become “protagonists” in society as well as the Catholic church.

Some 600 people in wheelchairs waited to have their time with Francis during the event Saturday. He moved down the rows to greet each person, doling out hugs and kisses as well as chatting.

Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/one-by-one-pope-greets-hundreds-in-wheelchairs-laments-societys-rejection-of-the-disabled/2013/11/09/c4f55392-494a-11e3-b87a-e66bd9ff3537_story.html

How dare he!

[Vashta Nerada]

1. Gee.

I wonder if this thread was started to cause trouble?

[rug]

2. Yes, this is so controversial.

[Vashta Nerada]

4. You've seen all the strife Pope threads have caused in the last few days.

And you post another one.

Do you enjoy throwing gasoline on the fire?

[rug]

7. So, you oppose or support welcoming people in wheelchairs?

BTW, this happened today.

[Vashta Nerada]

10. I'm not going to get into it.

So a religious leader welcomes people. Big whoop.

[rug]

11. Suit yourself. Although the answer is quite simple.

[Vashta Nerada]

13. Should I start a thread every time you do your job?

[rug]

16. Oooh, that would be nice. I'm drafting a will Monday. Let me know when you start the post.

[babylonsister]

17. Do share with us what other Pope has ever done this. Thanks! nt

[roguevalley]

33. john the 23rd was awesome. I am of the opinion that when someone acts like

Jesus instructed it causes cognitive dissonance. I know he will never go fast enough or whatever for some but I appreciate a leader of his magnitude giving the finger to the 1% which he is doing.

[Mojorabbit]

79. I am enjoying it too. Shaking things up. I like it. nt

[CountAllVotes]

119. Welcome to my IGNORE list

Sick of reading your idiotic posts.

Your hatred is obvious. How sad indeed.

I hope YOU never end up in a wheelchair. I don't think you'd care much for it and I really doubt you'd really HATE having someone greet you and acknowledge your rightful existence on this earth.

Sad 'effin world alright.

[Katashi_itto]

123. Well Said!

[Vashta Nerada]

160. My hatred for the Pope is justified.

It's not like I expressed hated towards you.

Oh well.

Go on and keep idolizing homophobes. You're just as gullible as the rest of the people who fall for sensationalistic journalism and a good PR team.

[No Vested Interest]

171. Hatred of any one is not a healthy choice.

It harms the hater. Physically.
It can harm the hated, but in the instance of a public figure, will have little or no effect.

[hrmjustin]

189. Hatred only hurts you in the end.

[Bobbie Jo]

185. Looks like you already did.

Try hide thread, move on, etc...

Belated welcome to DU.

I think you'll find DU'ers posting what they want without pre-approval.

[billhicks76]

57. Obviously a good person

How can anyone not like this Pope? Kind, compassionate, humble and making huge efforts to force the entrenched institutions that are sometimes run on profit and pain to change for the better.

[Enthusiast]

110. I'm with you, brother......................nt

[liberal_at_heart]

12. My son and husband are disabled. My daughter is bi. I can support what he is doing for the sick,

poor, and the disabled. I can even support how far he has come in his views of homosexuals, saying who is he to judge. I can still criticize him for not going far enough in supporting homosexuality. There is enough for all these arguments.

[rug]

15. I hope all your loved ones are doing well.

I don't disagree with anything you said.

[Vashta Nerada]

20. He hasn't done anything to change his own views on homosexuality.

What are you talking about?

[MannyGoldstein]

51. He said "who am i to judge?"

From a Pope, that seems rather unusual.

[Humanist_Activist]

127. Actually he said who are you to judge chaste GLBT people.

People seem to enjoy misrepresenting the homophobe.

[KittyWampus]

19. "all the strife"… it really is just you and maybe 3 or 4 other DU'ers. So "all" is over playing it.

Learn to use the ignore feature if you can't stand it.

[Vashta Nerada]

21. Discussion forums exist for people to share their opinions, do they not?

Do give me a list of people I am supposed to support so I'm not naughty in the future.

[arely staircase]

139. yes they are. you should address this to the person who complained about rug expressing his opinion

oh, wait.

[840high]

26. So stop reading them.

[Renew Deal]

36. Your post is the first match

It's hypocritical to respond about "gasoline on the fire" when you light the first match

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/austin-dawkins-jessica-dawkins-wife-set-on-fire-at-gas-station-husband-faces-charges

[Vashta Nerada]

81. rug has a history of doing this.

[hrmjustin]

85. He has a history of standing up for his beliefs.

[Vashta Nerada]

100. And starting problems.

[hrmjustin]

102. No. you just don't like what he says. Rug does not cause problems here.

[Vashta Nerada]

103. Uh huh.

And this thread was started innocently?

Please.

[hrmjustin]

105. Well if pope threads are going to be allowed in GD now then he can post on it. I work with Rug on

several volunteer jobs here and he does not cause issues. You just don't like his views on the RCC.

[theHandpuppet]

196. Well, not all Pope threads ARE allowed on GD

Case in point:http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4009872

[hrmjustin]

197. Ok several things. While some of the pope threads were alerted on not all were.

Even the ones they wanted to lock had too many responses to lock. I agree it unfair that some got locked, but the reality is some were either not alerted on or it was alerted on so late that there were too many responses to lock it.

I think you should repost that thread in the religion room, It should get some responses there.

[theHandpuppet]

198. I am not interested in posting my thread to the religious forum

I appreciate your response but unlike the many Pope threads that were allowed to stand here, mine was primarily political in nature and had been thoroughly researched. The focus was on women's rights, abortion rights, gay rights and poverty with regard to past and present policies of the current Pope. If that wasn't a fit thread for GD but a thread about the Pope driving a Renault was, then something is seriously wrong with the enforcement of the rules here.

BTW, at the time my thread was locked it already had 42 recs.

[hrmjustin]

199. You make a good point. It had had a political nature to it. I would have left it.

[Dorian Gray]

194. I was interested in reading the story

EOM

[Humanist_Activist]

128. It appears his beliefs violate DU's rules...

Unless he is willing to denounce some of the views of his church.

[rug]

130. Implying, no mattter how obliquely, that a member is a bigot is a ToS violsation.

And what is this bullshit about "denounce"? Do you have some weird attraction to the Inquisition?

[Humanist_Activist]

134. Are you like your fellow Catholic, Gman, and teach gay kids they are intrinsically disordered?

You know, for the record and all that?

Do you denounce certain teachings of your Church or not, if not, then if the shoe fits, wear it.

[rug]

137. Are you like your fellow antiCatholics and preach that Catholics are intrinsically disordered?

You know, just state it for the record.

Do you denounce anti-religious bigotry or do you support it. (No need to answer, rhetorical questions rest on demonstrated facts.)

If the scowl fits, wear it.

[Humanist_Activist]

140. I condemn people for the beliefs they hold, and I oppose those beliefs...

that's the difference between you and me, you see nothing wrong with what Gman does, whereas all I feel is disgust. You should ask yourself why you are so defensive about propping up hatred against people.

[rug]

143. Oh get off your high horse, blanketing hatred with principle. The hypocirisy iis stunning.

I'm going to Mass now. You just stay here and preach it, brother.

[Humanist_Activist]

145. What hatred?

I don't see how calling a homophobe a homophobe is hatred.

[rug]

152. Lol.

[hrmjustin]

169. Being a RC violates the rules?

[Humanist_Activist]

173. Some of the beliefs held by the Church are a violation of some of DU's rules...

not all, or even most Catholics hold to the entire Catechism, after all, but, quite a few parts of it are homophobic, which is a violation of DU's TOS.

[hrmjustin]

174. He does not hold those beliefs.

[Humanist_Activist]

193. Evidence? All I see is his reactionary need to defend his church...

regardless of the merits of the criticism, generally with either blithe dismissals or snark, because actual rebuttals are too much hard work.

[hrmjustin]

195. I know rug, besides I am not the one making the accusation, you are.

[Bobbie Jo]

188. lol

Your "history" goes all the way back to July, eh?

Quite the DU historian.

[pacalo]

97. Respectfully, there are several ways you can hide pope threads.

Use the "trash this thread" option or, even better, use the "auto-trash by keyword" function so that you won't see any thread titles that contain the word "pope". You won't even know they exist.

[rug]

132. Lol, that last ssentence is ironic.

[book_worm]

69. if you don't like it then don't open it

If anything good is said about this Pope then avoid the thread instead of opening it--as simple as that.

[Arugula Latte]

101. Why is it so important to stifle dissent about the pope?

Why can't people express how they feel?

[Scootaloo]

163. Well, if it weren't for people who keep popping up to start shit in such threads... n/t

[Vashta Nerada]

164. Yeah...god forbid I stick up for LGBT rights.

[A Simple Game]

179. Now I see the problem, you think this thread is about LGBT or homophobia.

You made a mistake, it's about handicapped people.

You aren't implying that being LGB or T is equivalent to being handicapped are you?

I was only going to accuse you of hijacking a thread, but...

[Vashta Nerada]

180. ...

It's about love and admiration for a homophobic pope.

But hey, he greets handicapped people. What a great man. I remember seeing George Dubya greeting handicapped people as well.

[A Simple Game]

184. No, this thread was about a pope that was greeting handicapped people.

You are the one trying hijack it to make it about homophobia.

The pope homophobic? Somehow I doubt he fears gay people.

[theHandpuppet]

182. Okay, I'll play

See post #107.

[A Simple Game]

186. So you are saying that the Catholic church has a problem with handicapped people. OK.

Looks like this pope wants to change that. What is so wrong about that?

[theHandpuppet]

187. Not exactly.

More like, "physician, heal thyself". Let's see if his laments result in actual change with regard to non-discrimination within the church. Laments and photos are not policy changes, nor even proposals. I would welcome either one.

[Iggo]

191. lol

[liberal_at_heart]

3. That is fantastic. I love it.

[Courtesy Flush]

41. Me too. Tired of the pope haters.

Take your most admired person, and someone will find something to disagree with them about.

Take the most liberal person you know, or the most moderate, or whatever, and someone will have a reason to hate him.

Sure, you can find things you don't like about this pope, but he's telling millions of freeper types to be nicer and stop their bullshit. That's worth a hell of a lot.

It's a wingnut trait to hate someone because you don't agree with them 100%. This kind of thinking does not belong in DU.

I'm an atheist, and I imagine there's a lot I could find to disagree with when it comes to even the best pope, but lets have a little perspective.

[skepticscott]

64. Yes, we don't agree with him 100%

We're just hung up on that 1% that has to do with his treating homosexuals and women as second class citizens, and protecting child rapists. We're just a bunch of fucking wingnuts, aren't we?

[rug]

68. You can answer your own question but you are doing a fine job of division.

And, unlike you, I'm using the singular not the plural.

[HERVEPA]

90. Tired of the lovers of the homophobic pope

[CTyankee]

5. I consider this a good thing, even tho I am a big critic of the Vatican...

whatever he can do to help the disabled is fine with me.

I will be discreet and leave it at that in this post...

[Tikki]

6. That's nice…but this is what any leader of a church should be doing…it shouldn't be big news...

should be par for the course.




Tikki

[rug]

8. I agree. But I laud it when it does happen.

[Tikki]

18. So did I and it is nice…I have worked with the disabled and like us all it is amazing to..

have attention showered on one.
I believe the pope is sincere and is aware of his job…
Let's see how big of an imagination this man can stretch to…there are really big issues he needs to
step up to…many here think he can do it.


Tikki

[kelliekat44]

77. But it is BIG news since so many leaders of a church don't do it.

I can't name one other church "leader" who has done this.

[skepticscott]

82. So you're saying we should get down on our knees

and...worship...this pope, just because all of the other church leaders are worse?

I'll pass

[arely staircase]

9. the fact he stopped to greet each one and chat a little is what makes this clearly not a cynical PR

move. when you take the time to visit, even briefly, with six hundred people your aren't bullshitting.

[kydo]

22. that's kind of what I was thinking

who the hell am I fooling that's 100% of what I was thinking.

[LittleBlue]

14. The disabled are often forgotten in our politically charged discussions

K&R

[hrmjustin]

23. Thanks for the picture rug.

It must have been a joy for them to meet him. I wonder what it was like for him.

[Thinkingabout]

24. This is a teaching moment for all, he is living his faith and many could follow his example

Of giving and caring about everyone. With the disturbing messages given by other church leaders, pushing hate and lack of concern of others around us his actions is very welcoming.

[HERVEPA]

91. And his comments about Gays as parents is following his faith and an example to follow?

[Thinkingabout]

125. As you find a problem and it might be too much for you to overcome then the rest of the readers can

complain about you having a problem with his opinion on this issue as a negative issue about yourself. If this is all you can see about Pope Francis then you need to expand to include the very good things he is also doing or you are going to fall into the category of the world thinking you are not good if your opinion does not fit everyone else. Unless you want to be judged by your one opinion then do not judge Pope Francis on one issue.

[arely staircase]

141. yes. declining to judge others is an exampe to follow. that would be the most recent thing he has

said on the subject. I am aware of his earlier bigotted statements but I have faith in people's ability to change and grow.

[HERVEPA]

142. Sorry, only counts if he verbally and specifically reputes earlier statements.

[arely staircase]

144. iyho nt

[HERVEPA]

149. Duh, everything on this board is isho

[840high]

25. Thank you. Now run and hide.

[madinmaryland]

27. Uh-oh!! I can see some DUer's heads exploding.

[Moonwalk]

106. Why? I'm sure there are pictures of Sen. Owen Hill teaching and caring for poor kids in Africa...

How are those different from this picture of the Pope shaking hands with the disabled? Which is one very good reason why my head—for one--isn't exploding at the sight of all this Jesus like compassion for the poor and lame, and why my skepticism remains firmly in place. Sen. Owen Hill worked with poor kids in Africa. DO you think we should vote for him because he did that? I mean, I'm sure Sen. Hill was very genuine and sincere in his faith and religion when he went to Africa to help out poor kids. And I'm sure the Pope is genuine and sincere in his faith and religion in what he's doing here. But neither act convinces me that they're good leaders.

Let's see how much church money the Pope invests in changing disabled laws in Catholic countries, in making sure Catholic hospitals hand out wheelchairs and prosthetics; let's see him change the Church's stance on contraceptives or at least condoms and family planning so that parents in poor, Catholic countries can give more attention to their disabled child rather than having more children and not being able to give that special child the more attention that he/she needs and that the Pope laments they're not getting.

When/if he starts to make some real changes, then we can talk. But even then, I'm afraid that my head is in no way going to explode. It's going to stay where it's always been. Steady on my shoulders, watching and waiting and reserving judgement. Because the Catholic Church and the Popes who are the "leaders" of it have not earned my blind trust. They have a long way to go before I'm going to be convinced that either the leader of this organization or the organization itself has changed and evolved. There's been too many decades of terrible damage done by the church and its leaders for any Pope, however many pictures he takes with the poor and lame, to be given a pass by me at least. Not until he does something with his power that is very real and very tangible.

[JEFF9K]

28. Yet conservative "Christians" prefer televangelist hucksters.

[freshwest]

29. Seen tribes come to do almost the same thing with disabled people. Strong advocates, seldom heard.

But there is a reservoir of caring people the media never gives any voice. Hope this is setting a trend.

Noticed Obama made sure to mention the disabled in the campaign. And since then.

[Humanist_Activist]

30. Oh, well, in that case, he is apparently a saint!

[nolabear]

31. These people and their families are clearly believers. He did a fine thing.

This is clearly his identity as Pope, and though I don't agree with many tenets of the Catholic Church and the Papal traditions, no matter what I think he is in a position to do good. If he suddenly came out for everything I believe in he'd be...de-poped...and someone far more objectionable and old school would likely be in his place. I'm not certain what is individual sincerity and what is collective calculation, but I can be pretty certain that the vast majority of people that he talked to today will remember it and benefit.

And I would never, ever deny someone that.

[skepticscott]

32. Another well-staged photo op for the pope

Designed to distract from the fact that the RCC is as homophobic and sexist as ever. The pope treats disabled people just like everyone else? And doting DU Catholics think this is something to be gushingly proud of, instead of being a given for any decent human being? Sheesh.

[Dawson Leery]

40. .

Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2013, 01:01 AM - Edit history (1)

[rug]

43. Your implication is that the people in the picture are dupes or willing props.

Either one is obnoxious.

[cordelia]

52. +1

[Niceguy1]

34. I think he

Will turn out to be one of tge better Popes

[Historic NY]

35. Francis does good works...

he is growing on me.

[William769]

37. When I see a crowd like that of LGBT people and they are being given communion

Then we will talk about starting the healing process. Until then the Pope can go fuck himself!

[rug]

38. You don't think there are LGBT people there?

[William769]

39. Who knows.

But given the climate and even if you support Gay marriage and are not Gay you can be denied communion what do you think?

[rug]

42. I think there are many, and I know some, who receive Communion and there are many priests, I know 2,

who give Communion without reservation.

Ironically, I do not since I was not married in the Church. The Church teachings on marriage and sex outside of marriage affects straights and gays. Still, there's a lot more to the Church than that alone.

You may find this article interesting.

But, the good archbishop also leaves out plenty of considerations that might have suggested he should temper his remarks. First – and how many times do I have to point this out – the principal threat to our Catholic teaching about traditional marriage is not gay marriage. The principal threat is divorce. Gay men and women constitute maybe five percent of the population. Fifty percent of all marriages end in divorce. Yes, the Church teaches that marriage can only be constituted by one man and one woman, but the Church also teaches that marriage is forever. I have not heard the bishop say that those who vote for candidates who support liberal divorce laws should abstain from communion. I have not heard anyone suggest that a Catholic judge or a Catholic lawyer who helps people procure divorces should abstain from communion.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/vigneron-same-sex-marriage-communion

[William769]

44. Sorry but I find nothing in the Catholic church interesting.

And Yes I am a Christian (I at least try to follow the teachings of Jesus, which is more than I can say for the people you speak of).

[rug]

46. Then you're missing most of western history.

[skepticscott]

45. Or when the pope is performing a marriage ceremony

for same-sex couples as a photo op.

Which even the OP knows will never happen. But he pretends.

[rug]

47. Do tell, scott. What am I pretending?

Do you always find it necessary to couch a public criticism in a personal insult?

[William769]

48. There are several words I could use but choose not to so I will just use one.

Delusional.

[rug]

50. What's the delusion?

And who is delusional?

[skepticscott]

63. That describes the religionists

and the cautiously optimistic here very accurately.

[rug]

66. Congratulations. You just called most posters in this thread, if not on DU, delusional.

[hrmjustin]

49. I would love to see that day happen.

I pray that will happen.

[William769]

53. Pray a little harder, because some are trying to pray the Gay away.

[hrmjustin]

55. I will my friend.

[dionysus]

70. i can totally understand your point of view on this topic.

[SidDithers]

129. Nailed it...

Sid

[Ohio Joe]

54. Pope photo op of the day... To bad he also laments the rejection of pedophile priests

Keeping the tradition of protecting them alive... It is probably just something else that takes time to change

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024009189

[rug]

56. Don't forget to mention the Crusades, Giordano Bruno and Galileo while you're at it.

Start a thread on them and link to them as well.

[Ohio Joe]

59. Did you bother to read it? They fired the whistleblower last week

But hey... Protecting pedophile priests is old news

[rug]

60. Yes I read it and good for him. But it is in fact a different topic.

And the point that may be made is not likely the point that you want made.

Pope Francis and his directions may be the way Fr. Samson, and his urgent concerns, get heard.

From your link:

Samson’s story is being publicized as the Catholic Church tries to clean up its tarnished image regarding sexual abuse. Pope Francis recently instructed Vatican officials overseeing abuse cases to “act decisively” to protect children.

[Ohio Joe]

61. Way to act decisively... Fire the whistleblower... That will protect the kids

As for the topic... You think it's ok to promote as wonderful a guy that is protecting pedophile priests? Drop the photo op of the day in GD and hope nobody notices that the same old shit is still going on? Is this the great change he is bringing to the church? Is it ok that the pope continues to cover up shit like this as long as he gets good press?

[rug]

65. If you read the link, the superiors of his Order reassigned him.

The buck, however, stops at Rome, where, fortunately, Francis is waiting.

As far as the rest of your reply, I'll answer after I remove the spittle from my screen.

[Ohio Joe]

71. So... First dismiss it...Then deny it... Then ignore it... But boy oh boy does he take a good pic

I'm not sure why you are spitting on your screen though.... That is a strange thing to do but then so is trying to promote a PoS as hard as you are.

[rug]

74. The problem is I have to remove the glass from the monitor first, then wipe it off from the back.

And the only promotion I see is you bringing in every tired, bigoted and stupid talking point, barring only (for the moment) Jack Chick.

[Ohio Joe]

78. Ahhh... The old 'lets lable them as angry' bit... Do you think anyone will buy it?

I understand you just want everyone to love the guy but at least try and pretend you have some honesty in it all. In addition, you can call them 'talking points' if it makes you happy but they are all still facts and ignoring them does not make them go away. I suspect the children who were molested and who now are having their attackers protected by your beloved pope would not call their abuse a 'talking point'.

Why not address the issues at least once instead of calling names and trying to dismiss me as 'just a hater'?

[rug]

83. I didn't say "them" and I didn't say "angry". I said "you" and I said "tired, bigoted and stupid"

talking points.

I find it interesting this Pope causes you to be unable to focus on the topic at hand and resort to personal attacks.

I understand you just want everyone to love the guy but at least try and pretend you have some honesty in it all."

Really, is that the best you can do?

[Ohio Joe]

95. Yeah... Having a bit of trouble following?

See... First you said you had to wipe spit from your monitor... I thought that was odd but then you clarified by saying it was from the other side, implying I was raving mad... As you do with anyone who objects to all the pope pleasuring... Hence, 'them' and 'angry'... Not exact words (hence the single quotes) but it was exactly what you try to imply again and again.

When you do things like that over and over, it is not being honest, it is using attacks to try and deflect from the fact that you refuse to even acknowledge real issues with the church that are being perpetuated by this pope.

Now... I understand you just want to promote the guy without having to have the 'talking points' recognized and lashing out at anyone who dares point them out but that is the danger of bringing religion into GD... Not everyone here has to love the pope or deny the reality of the church.

[rug]

96. Not in the least. I know where it goes after the flush.

Speaking of honesty, you have demonstrated that you are not capable of dealing with the topic at hand, simply because it concerns a Pope and the Catholic Church, and instead try to turn the topic towards more familiar and surer subjects such as pedophilia.

The only way you can even wrap yourself around this is to link to another thread of yours attempting to prove how inherently bad the RCC is.

Now I know exactly why you do that. It's tedious that you don't.

[Ohio Joe]

104. I see... We should only mention good things about him

Forget all that other stuff... Mentioning it is there is simply dishonest

[sabrina 1]

148. Do you think the pope should not be supporting the disabled?

[Ohio Joe]

153. That is what you get from this?

Really?

Let me try to put it out as straight forward as I can... The issue is not the pope at all, it is watching him being promoted and put forth as some great guy, and harbinger of change for the church when he has done nothing to deserve such praise. Day after day we get post after post that tries to convince us that the pope is working to change and anyone that points out the fact that nothing has changed and there is no indication that real change is coming is met with accusations of hate or such non-sense as you put forth.

No. I do not think the pope should not support the disabled. I also don't think the church had a problem supporting the disabled in the past, it is not something that indicates the church is doing anything to actually improve. I think ignoring that the church is still covering up pedophile priests while giving him props for supporting the disabled is fucked up. I think ignoring that the church still considers LGBT people an abomination while giving him props for driving his own car is fucked up. I think ignoring that he still considers women to be subservient to men while coo'ing about how a cute photo of a kid running up to him is fucked up. I think considering these issues just 'talking points' is fucked up.

When a politician does these things, we call him out and no one on DU minds... The pope... no, he gets support & cheers for bullshit like that while those who do point it out get attacked. I don't get it one bit... It's fucked up.

[sabrina 1]

155. This is a relatively new pope, the first from his part of the world. That alone is a change.

His church is CENTURIES old so it's unlikely that he is going to completely change centuries old history in one year.

The US hasn't managed to change ITS history overnight either. But each time someone came along who took a few steps forward on major issues, which took courage at the time, it helped the progress towards even more changes.

Our own current president was stuck in religious opposition to, eg, Gays' having the same rights as everyone else until very recently. Many of our own politicians are living in the past on many issues, not to mention more than enough of the population to still seriously restrict the rights of members of this citizenry.

And here we applaud anyone who moves forward in their regressive thinking even a little bit because we know no one can change even a short history, such as ours (at least that is what we were told during the 2008 election) overnight.

This pope is centuries ahead of his predecessors and even of many our own elected politicians here for whom there is far less excuse.

The significance of someone having the courage to speak out on centuries old beliefs is immense whether or not you see it.

HE has the power to influence more people than the POTUS including right here in the US. Eg, he completely slapped down Right Wing Fundy Ideologues when dismissed their 'concerns' about Gays and Abortions and told them they should be focused on real issues.

You are not required to see the significance of this pope's actions, but billions around the world do see it.

[Ohio Joe]

157. Non-sense... No more then lip service is being given to the issues

None of the posts propping up the pope addresses any of the issues, they simply say 'look over here where he is being a good guy and ignore the problems'. The fact is, the pope wants to everyone to ignore how the church treats the LGBT community, there is no effort to change the attitude towards the community, just a 'lets not talk about it anymore'. The idea that the pope might make women cardinals was bullshit and the real thought on it is that it's absurd and has no chance of even being considered. There was also a whistle blower fired for talking about pedophile priests... This was just last week, not some time in the distant past or under another pope... This pope is still covering it up.

Bottom line is that no real change is happening, just a PR barrage trying to distract. It's bullshit.

[sabrina 1]

158. I'm happy to know how very much in the minority you are on this issue.

But no one expects an end to hatred and bigotry either in this world. We just need a consensus and I believe this pope is succeeding in getting, for a kinder, more compassionate world, after the past several years of the US pushing torture and killing as a way towards 'change'.

Speaking of Whistle Blowers. I assume that your concern for Whistle Blowers who expose human rights crimes, extends to the egregious pursuit, torture and decades long incarceration of Chelsey Manning who witnessed War Crimes and whose conscience drove her to report them and expose them.

I'm glad to see your concern for Whistle Blowers. I hope we can at least agree that the current policies here in the US, where the lives of many good people who exposed crimes, have been destroyed.

I don't recall seeing your concern over this issue before, but perhaps you ARE among those of us who want to see an end to the crack down on Whistle Blowers and more emphasis on investigating and prosecuting the murderers, the torturers, the abusers etc.

[Ohio Joe]

159. WTF?

So you will just ignore the fact that NOTHING is actually being done by this pope to change those things beyond lip service and then turn around and insinuate I support torture because you have not seen me give enough support to Chelsea Manning? WTF?

How about addressing even one of the things I brought up instead of making baseless accusations against me? It is this very disconnect that troubles me.

Does it not bother you that this pope is actively still protecting pedophile priests?
Does it not bother you that this pope considers the LGBT community an affront to god?
Does it not bother you that this pope wants women to remain subservient to men in the church?

[sabrina 1]

170. Does it bother you that on an issue you claim to be so concerned about

Whistle Blowers, our own government is doing to them right here where you could actually do something about it, what you just complained about in our previous comment?

As for the rest of your post, as I said, sometimes it takes people a long time to realize how wrong they were, even our own elected officials a few of whom have, after a lifetime of allowing their own religious beliefs cause them to be willing to deprive others of their rights, such as our president, eventually are persuaded that they were wrong.

This pope is ahead of those here who still oppose full rights for gays, certainly our own fundies, who he slapped hard when he told them to get their minds on real issues rather than being obsessed with gays and women.

[Ohio Joe]

172. The pope supports full rights for gays? Bullshit, plain and simple.

"as I said, sometimes it takes people a long time to realize how wrong they were"

You keep wanting to make it out like this pope is somehow different... It is a load of shit. He still considers the LGBT community an affront to god and is not budging on that stance, this fantasy that he supports full rights for gays is non-sense and simply not true... He just does not want to talk about it. He is still hiding pedophile priests. He still wants women to be subservient to men... Why do you keep denying these facts and instead make veiled accusations against me?

These are his active and current stances, there is no change and no indication any is coming.

[theHandpuppet]

175. Now now, Ohio Joe...

You don't really want people to deal with FACTS, do you, when they can simply make up their own narrative?

[sabrina 1]

176. And the facts are? ??

[theHandpuppet]

177. Well, I'd say start here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4009872

But my thread was locked. That's what you get for trying to inject some facts and political perspective into these discussions, huh.

[theHandpuppet]

178. Well, I'd say start here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4009872

But my thread was locked. That's what you get for trying to inject some facts and political perspective into these discussions, huh.

[sabrina 1]

192. Not a very good attempt at avoidance, coupled with putting words into my mouth which I did not say.

You expressed anger that a Whistle Blower who exposed human rights abuses by priests lost his job. I wondered if you also supported Whistle Blowers right here in the US most of whom would consider themselves lucky if the only thing that had happened to them was a lost job. Unfortunately, they have suffered accusations of terrorism, prosecution as traitors, they have lost everything, including their reputations and in the case of one of them, Manning, torture and her freedom for 35 years.

I don't recall seeing you supporting those courageous Whistle Blowers who exposed WAR CRIMES, some of which involved the abuse of children, murder, torture etc. So I wondered when YOU realized finally that Whistle Blowers who expose crimes should be PROTECTED. If YOU, who as far airc, were completely supportive of the US Govt's persecution of Whistle Blowers could change your mind then there is hope for others to do the same.

But you did not address that very salient point and instead, in your heading attempt to put words in my mouth.

We have a president who opposed equal rights for Gays until very recently. Did you support him back then when he explained WHY he opposed Gay marriage? I'm sure I could do a search if I were interested enough, but I don't recall you being among those who were outspoken in their opposition to his position, as a SECULAR leader of a Democracy, on this issue.

I am very happy with the steps taken by this pope to demolish the taking points of the Far Right and I have yet to see him embrace any anti-Civil-Righs for Gays Fundy Preachers. Did you support that also? I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from because airc, your position on this pope's progress on these issues is vastly different from your previous position.

[Arugula Latte]

67. Shhh! Just surrender to the PR and slobber over this pope

lest you're labeled a "hater." So what that the church continues to despise women and gays and covers up child rape. Don't be negative, now, you hear?

[rug]

72. A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

Lie la lie . . . .

[Arugula Latte]

73. Yeah. You're describing yourself.

[rug]

75. I haven't seen any slobbering.

[Vashta Nerada]

80. But he's a nice guy!

Dontcha know!

[baldguy]

58. Francis! What an asshole!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

62. it matters to THEM. and that's ALL that matters.

It is a good thing.

I am happy for them; no one's asking any more of anyone.

[nomorenomore08]

76. I am not a fan of organized religion. I am *really* not a fan of organized religion.

But I was raised and educated Catholic, so whether I like it or not, I am connected to the Church in some sense. And while I realize that major reform within Francis's lifetime is probably unlikely - "cautiously optimistic" would be too strong - I do find myself rec'ing a few of these Pope threads, just because (though I've also rec'd threads critical of him). If nothing else, Francis's public image is nothing like Benedict's, so I'd have to consider that a small improvement (small, mind you).

[skepticscott]

84. He's tried to improve image, and that is all

He has changed no substance, and even if he did, he'd only be back to where any decent, self-respecting group of human beings should have been a long time ago. Not that that will stop the rabid Catholic apologists here from supporting his sexism and homophobic bigotry at every turn.

[hrmjustin]

86. Where do you see People here supporting Sexism and homophobia?

[rug]

87. Neever mind that, where are the rabid people?

[hrmjustin]

88. LOL.

[laundry_queen]

118. LOL! nt

[skepticscott]

120. Sexism and anti-gay bigotry are

part of the official and unalterable doctrine of the Catholic Church, doctrine which Francis has declared that he supports fully. To gushingly and fawningly support him, and the church, as many do here, is to support the everlasting continuation of that doctrine.

[hrmjustin]

168. No one here supports that here. I understand you reasoning but we are just saying we like the

guy. But yes we must speak loudly about where the church is wrong.

[geomon666]

89. What's with all the hate in this thread?

Did I miss something?

[Brigid]

92. This has been going on for days now.

[rug]

93. Apparently a Pope greeting people in wheelchairs is the equivalent of pissing in cornflakes.

Some people lose it when a narrative is changed.

[geomon666]

94. I guess so n/t

[nomorenomore08]

99. People are angry at the Church in general, and with good reason.

But that doesn't mean this Pope isn't an improvement over his predecessor.

[skepticscott]

121. Where did all the hate

Towards an organization that institutionalizes sexism, anti-gay bigotry and the world-wide cover-up and enabling of child rape come from, on a progressive web site? Gee...can't imagine.

You would be better to ask where the support and defense of those things comes from on a progressive web site, and why people here wet themselves over a man who fully and enthusiastically supports them.

[xfundy]

98. Apparently none of them brought enough money to be healed.

Pity.

[theHandpuppet]

107. Okay, so I have a question

Why is that the Roman Catholic order of Benedictines of Jesus Crucified is one of the very few orders that accepts women with disabilities?

[rug]

109. Here are a couple more that accept men and women with disabilities.

http://www.fmjccommunity.com/index.htm

http://vmusa.org/

I imagine that to live a life within a religious community which has a specific purpose and apostolate would be difficult to do, depending on the disability. That includes not only the active orders but the cloistered orders.

This group focuses on services to persons with disabilities.

http://www.ncpd.org/

[theHandpuppet]

112. Maybe they need to work on being more inclusive themselves, then.

Thanks for the links.

[Enthusiast]

108. This blows my mind.

I love this.

[Demo_Chris]

111. Hundreds of thousands of children raped...

Thousands more tortured for FUN and even castrated for telling. The criminals responsible all given a PASS by this kind faced jackal. Women enslaved both literally and practically, gays persecuted, millions condemned to death due to this man's stance against birth control...

Why in the HELL are threads praising this bastard tolerated here?!

[rug]

113. Probably because most people don't fall for histrionic bullshit.

[Demo_Chris]

114. Good point, it's just kids and women and gays. Right?

[rug]

115. No, it's just you.

[theHandpuppet]

116. At least not as easily as they fall for a well orchestrated PR campaign

Interesting.

[rug]

117. No one is falling for anything.

Call it PR all you like but stomping your feet doesn't turn acts of charity into PR campaigns.

Which reminds me, let me wander over and look at your thread.

[Sunlei]

122. He is a good Pope and all his church people below him need to follow his example.

It's been a long, long, time for this church to have a good example to follow.

[Sunlei]

124. does he have a pet or two? one would think a Pope named Francis would also love animals :)

[SidDithers]

126. The Papal PR team kicks into high gear...

Sid

[rug]

136. And the hate all things Catholic team slithers out one by one . . . .

rug

[SidDithers]

147. Call the whambulance...

someone's not sufficiently genuflective of the Pope!

Sid

[rug]

151. Here, just for you.

[whistler162]

150. Oh the irony!

[Justice]

131. Watching video of this moved me to tears

[polynomial]

133. My prayers go out to those in wheel chairs

An on the job injury happened to me this last summer. Falling on my right side as I safely stepped at an angle of repose. That would be were the ground is granulated enough and or greasy enough to curl and fall. My fall was a very hard body slam across my right side. But I fell protecting my head.

Stunned from the fall but not feeling pain right away I shook off the fall looked around then went to finish the job. It was not till a few days later severe pain developed an ankle sprain ripened with pinched nerves long my right side. It was bad very bad pain I never experienced before. Since that time still recovering but not at one hundred percent, I always noticed wheelchair people.

My compassion for wheelchair people swung into gear as I realized a very neglected society, the injured, the elderly, the sick, as a Vietnam veteran now rethinking how our Congress and The Senate take care of those within our society that make the one percent successful. It’s all so extremely sad and disgusting to argue about health care. The rhetoric should be guess what we figured out how to make it better. Maybe some day to start a fund drive for such people.

A friend of my brother in law has a terminal disease in a wheelchair slowly dying his hands curling into no usefulness, he cannot use his feet. His wife is an absolute Angle, she takes such good care of him. There is love any man would be blessed to have. Thinking to myself blessed I am to be able to recover. However, my whole right side was going through continuous nerve shocks of terrible pain while trying to walk which I would endure.

The very sad thing is the people at the company I work for advertise being family types are exactly the opposite. The safety person in charge at the company wanted me to report the accident done at home. Then I would not be able to cover my insurance bill which is climbing. So, here I am in the very cool American corporate system trying to get medical to cover expenses that I have paid for over a decade. A warning to all, that the corporate goodie people are not as good as they say they are, especially when it comes to health care.

[rug]

138. A belated welcome to DU.

About the only good thing that came out of GHWB was the ADA. And even that was Democratic legislation.

[arthritisR_US]

135. In order for the women and LBGT to be heard

and recognized they just need to go in wheelchairs

[theHandpuppet]

161. Well, as I pointed out earler...

Pictures are nice but they can also paint a false portrait. The church itself discriminates against people with disabilities(see post 107) but funny no one really questioned that. All you have to do is show them a nice photo and they stop asking questions.

[arthritisR_US]

162. That is what they are counting on with this

recent onslaught of optics.

[theHandpuppet]

165. Yep.

Great PR machine and it seems to be working because people have stopped questioning the politics behind the pictures.

[arthritisR_US]

166. I figure they hired BP's PR firm just before the

conclave and have proceeded on script since then

[Zorra]

146. Grandstanding. Religious conservatives are primarily responsible for this rejection of the disabled.

If the Pope is sincere and serious about doing something to help the disabled, he needs to directly and adamantly admonish the greedy, heartless conservatives that belong to his religion and other religions as well. They are the ones that vote to prevent disabled folks from getting the attention they deserve.

He really needs to put all his weight behind making the tough choices to get it done. He's the big kahuna. The buck stops with him. Empty gestures and rhetoric won't cut it.

Pope Francis needs to scream this at conservatives: "You lying lame ass conservative hypocrite losers need to put your money and your vote where your purported faith lies. Otherwise, you're all gonna go straight to hell when you die, you greedy hypocrite fucks. Make it so, or I'm going to excommunicate your phony whitewashed asses faster than you can pray to Saint Ronald Reagan, patron saint of spreading AIDS and misery upon the poor.

Don't blame liberals, because we are all totally down with improving the quality of life for the disabled as best we can against the opposition of religious conservatives.

The first budget the religious conservative legislature in our state cut after the economic crisis began was money for the disabled. They cut funding to our non-profit by 22%, forcing us to lower the quality and quantity of service we could provide.

Want respect? Go after the conservative fuckhead hypocrites in your flock who continually vote to harm and reject the disabled, cut food stamps, hate LGBT, store up wealth, etc, ad nauseum.

[Skidmore]

154. Not a Catholic or a practitioner of any

religion nod do I have much use for the chains that religion bind their adherents with, but I appreciate this man's efforts to remind the world that a Pope is human. He is bringing the papacy dow to earth and remembering the humanity that the church was instructed to serve.

Religions run the risk of beng rejected as time passes and they institutionalize themselves. History is rife with examples of dead religions and cults. They get there from becoming irrelevant or from becoming corrupt and oppressive.

Kudis to this man as he tries to serve the people.

[spanone]

156. k&r...

[Douglas Carpenter]

167. knr

[A Simple Game]

181. As a former Catholic and now an agnostic, I see this as a very big deal.

This pope is paying attention to people that need attention. This is an old man, this must have been physically hard on him, but he still did it.

This is a huge step, one of many such steps, some huge, some small, in the right direction for any major religion. Shame on those that belittle this man.

[Vashta Nerada]

183. Yeah, shame on me, god damn it:

Pope Francis is a conservative who is anti-gay marriage and anti-gay adoption. He has described same-sex marriage as the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan.” He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

[Beacool]

190. I don't know why the Pope haters just don't avoid reading posts about him.

If Pope Francis upsets some of you so much, why don't you save yourselves the stress of opening and reading these posts.



As for me, this is the first Pope in my lifetime who seems to always brings a smile to my face.