General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI dont get the whole ultrasound before an abortion thing
Are there any stats that such a practice even reduces abortion rates? (which I assume is the goal of such laws)
The only thing I've found is this article last year that found these laws have no effect on the decision....
http://americanindependent.com/210411/ongoing-study-shows-ultrasounds-do-not-have-direct-impact-on-abortion-decision
I mean viewing the ultrasound doesnt change the reason a woman is getting an abortion. So what's the point?
ananda
(28,831 posts)..
Mass
(27,315 posts)The idea is to show that to the mother and remind her that it is a living thing (in their mind a human being).
It is indeed cruel for those women who would have liked to give birth the child if circumstances are different, and this is exactly the reason for these ultrasounds: get a few women to decide otherwise. Even if the number of women is very small, for these fundies, it is worthwhile.
CountAllVotes
(20,863 posts)Well that is another story.
Who cares if the woman is broke, has no family, etc. or just plain does not want to bear a child.
If it is up to these freaks, we'll be seeing a huge population boom the likes of which have never been seen!
Mass
(27,315 posts)On a similar note, the GOP is congratulating themselves about the Preemie Act (medical research on preemies). Of course, it is useful and good, but what about giving access to healthcare to these kids. With a GOP plan, these babies may be saved, but they will have a preexisting condition and no healthcare for quite a while.
adavid
(140 posts)and those GOP anti-abortion laws have a direct impact on families that are forced to have unwanted pregnancies. So, with children from "broken homes" that are raised by a single parent that struggle with school and have social problems (you know, statistics), are LEAPS AND BOUNDS more likely to choose the military as a "career option".
So the cause and effect result is,-----more Soldiers for endless wars!!!
Of course, my opinion..................
Ilsa
(61,688 posts)Yes, it is about shaming and misinformation about "the baby", breast cancer, etc.
It is also about putting up another expensive barrier, the cost of an ultrasound and repeat trips to the doctor.
I think if it is required by law, then it should , be paid for by the government, at a minimum.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)It looked like a blob with a twitch.
OregonBlue
(7,753 posts)is. It's a fetus, not a baby. This is about shaming and making it much harder for women. It's certainly not about showing a woman the baby she is aborting.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Forcing women to see with their own eyes, is the right's response to arguments that they and much of the public see as absurdity: the dehumanization of human reproduction.
I really wish the pro-choice movement would argue that abortion is self-defense (not only for health reasons but also against lives limited and diminished by reproductive slavery).
Self-defense seems like a workable description that encompasses how abortion is used.
Moreover, self-defense is something that even religious conservatives defend as an unalienable right.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)but in the UK they're used to determine well being of the fetus and sometimes the sex which is a wholly different issue
JHB
(37,152 posts)If they cared about stats they'd support birth control, but then, that would be condoning unauthorized (they would say "illicit" sex. They won't (publicly) countenance that either.
The strategy is to simply eliminate legal abortion, not through outright ban but through making it so difficult to get one there is only one "choice" left. At least, until they can get enough of their people in Congress and the courts to re-enact outright bans.
Thus, the array of tactics: waiting periods, TRAP laws that over-regulate clinic operations for the purpose of driving them out of business, gauntlets of protesters, harassment of doctors (enhanced by death threats and the occasional murder), anything ANYTHING that adds more and more painful hoops to jump through is counted as a "win".
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)why would stats matter to them?
Tanuki
(14,913 posts)women and if they can't outright prevent a woman from exercising basic autonomy, they will at least try to humiliate her, traumatize her emotionally and violate her with an ultrasound probe. Penetrating a woman's vagina with a foreign object against her will is rape, even if the rapist is wearing a white lab coat.
mrsadm
(1,198 posts)and intimidate the woman into thinking she is doing something wrong. Really nasty intimidation.
mrsadm
(1,198 posts)for other reasons, and it cost $1000.00
LWolf
(46,179 posts)is to push emotional buttons on the woman's part, to induce her to feel guilt; enough to change her mind or torture herself with for the rest of her life if she doesn't.
It's got nothing to do with logic; it's an emotional weapon for the illogical.
LuvNewcastle
(16,834 posts)goes ahead with it, she'll need to see a therapist to get over the feelings she might have afterward. They're sick fucks. That's what fundy religions are for, to guilt people into doing things (or not doing things) in opposition to their reason.
get the red out
(13,460 posts)Just a weapon to use against women.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)It's a sickly, manipulative piece of emo-wrangling. Baaaaaaaad.
spanone
(135,774 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)It's an attempt to shame and guilt a woman for her decision.
As if having to drive hundreds of miles and in some cases cross state lines, under threat of snipers and bomb makers, to be confronted by the hateful teeth gnashing religious hoards outside of the clinic isn't enough, she must have an invasive unnecessary costly procedure too.
And to some, she should be forced to feel "haunted" and shamed for the rest of her life for what they deem are her poor life choices.
aikoaiko
(34,159 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)From the article linked to in the OP, emphasis mine:
aikoaiko
(34,159 posts)and not number of actual procedures.
http://www.ansirh.org/_documents/research/Weitz.HastingsTalk.8.30.10.pdf
I will say this that as a would be father, see the heartbeat at 7 or 8 weeks was compelling to me.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)the purpose of the procedure for me was to see if I'd miscarried a wanted child.
aikoaiko
(34,159 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)thats the point
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...the goals are:
1 - political grandstanding to emphasize the "pro-life" bona fides of the sponsors
2 - shaming and humiliating women who seek abortions
3 - paternalistic control of women's reproduction
4 - reinforcing the idea that women are incapable of thinking rationally
5 - reinforcing the idea that abortion is evil (*)
(*) Unless, of course, it is one of the wives / daughters / girlfriends of the politicians in question who has an unwanted or problem pregnancy -- in those cases, well, then abortions are justified because those are "special" cases as any fair minded person can see
rdharma
(6,057 posts)It should be referred to as the "Love the Fetus, Hate the Child INVASIVE PROBE"
arthritisR_US
(7,282 posts)increases the guilt a 100 fold.
MountainLaurel
(10,271 posts)By making them go through an unnecessary medical procedure, which, with the transvaginal ultrasounds, is quite akin to rape.
Gothmog
(144,870 posts)Last year the Doonesbury strip had a great series on the Texas law where the procedure was called rape and some papers refuse to run that strip. http://womensissues.about.com/b/2012/03/14/doonesbury-comic-strip-lampoons-invasive-texas-sonogram-law.htm
Monday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/12
Tuesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/13
Wednesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/14
Thursday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/15
Friday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/16
Saturday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/17
Hekate
(90,515 posts)Doonesbury is the greatest.
rock
(13,218 posts)I could go on.
Gothmog
(144,870 posts)Doonesbury did a great job on the real reasons for this law. http://womensissues.about.com/b/2012/03/14/doonesbury-comic-strip-lampoons-invasive-texas-sonogram-law.htm
Here are links to all of the cartoon strips on the Texas law
Monday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/12
Tuesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/13
Wednesday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/14
Thursday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/15
Friday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/16
Saturday: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2012/03/17
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)The end.
MH1
(17,573 posts)I think it's even irrelevant whether it deters abortion when a woman chooses go through the process including the ultrasound where it is required.
It adds cost to the procedure and therefore probably prevents some women from doing it. Certainly, organizations that fund abortions for women who can't afford it, will be able to fund fewer.
The point is that it is an invalid requirement with no medical function, and the sole function is simply to reduce the number of abortions while not in any way addressing the cause of unwanted pregnancies or the consequence to a woman carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)added pressure.
Hekate
(90,515 posts)Doonesbury did a series on it awhile ago in which a politician stands by as the ultrasound is done in "The Shaming Room."
rustydog
(9,186 posts)insisting on climbing in to the vagina of every woman in America while insisting we have to stop government's overreaching.