Three workers burned at Tesla plant

[Mother Muckraker]

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Three-workers-burned-at-Tesla-plant-4980999.php

In a statement, Tesla said, "There was a failure in a low-pressure aluminum casting press. Three employees were injured by hot metal from that press. We are making sure that they receive the best possible care."

The victims suffered moderate to serious burns and were taken to Santa Clara Valley Medical Center in San Jose. Two patients were in the burn unit, and the third was being evaluated, said hospital spokeswoman Joy Alexiou.

So far, Tesla has rehired less than 50 people (out of 4500) from the NUMMI plant. Most who were rehired are management. The Tesla plant is run by people who are inexperienced.

[Oakenshield]

1. That sounds pretty horrific.

I hope they pull through.

[Scuba]

2. You really have a hard-on for Tesla. How come?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024028363

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101678255

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024007911

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014642149

[City Lights]

4. Nice work!

[giftedgirl77]

5. From the profile (which is kind of hard to decipher)

I'm going with personally vested.

[Posteritatis]

20. Definitely seems that way. (nt)

[grantcart]

3. What are you referring to?

Tesla purchased part of a building they didn't buy the ongoing facility.

Tesla hasn't 'rehired' any of the General Motor/Toyota employees and is under no obligation to do so.

Do you assume that the new owner of a building is somehow obligated to hire the workers that used to work there?

[KamaAina]

6. Of course not.

But when one is looking to open an auto plant in the Bay Area, it makes sense to hire workers who have experience working in an auto plant. Around here, that means the ex-NUMMI workers.

You don't suppose their failure to do so could have anything to do with the fact that NUMMI was union, do you?

[grantcart]

7. If you click on the OPs profile you will see that he was a former worker at the plant

The framing of the issue makes it appear that Tesla was somehow obligated to rehire the workers as part of a deal for occupying the building.

So far, Tesla has rehired less than 50 people (out of 4500) from the NUMMI plant. Most who were rehired are management. The Tesla plant is run by people who are inexperienced.

Tesla is an important player in moving us from gas cars to electric.

If you thought Tesla was interested in undercutting union pay don't you think that they would be in Tennessee or South Carolina.

As for rehiring former union workers with a lot of seniority, that is an unfair comparison. Why should Tesla be obligated to hire back senior GM and Toyota workers when those are the companies that are leaving for union busting states?

If you want to make a case against Tesla's employment record then you need to compare apples to apples, compare a starting worker on a GM/Toyota line with a starting worker at Tesla.

Given the fact that they chose to manufacture in California instead of the South I am guessing that they pay more.

In any case the posting by the OP is just part of the OPs anti Tesla's campaign, apparently he holds a grudge because having worked at that building he expected that he would be automatically rehired.

[KamaAina]

8. There is no denying that "Tesla is an important player in moving us from gas cars to electric".

I'm just curious as to why they would not choose to hire from the fairly limited pool of experienced auto workers in the Bay Area.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

9. The answer to that is obvious.

Anti-union tactics are a refined art these days.
I'm not sure it really impacts the quality of the product, but the worker safety issue is an angle they could easily wind up being vulnerable on.

[grantcart]

12. They did.

And as the link in the reply below shows they are paying UAW rates.

What the OP doesn't tell you is that Musk is also providing workers with stock options.

Their price has gone up 400 in a year.

If they were to unionize they would go to a standard contract and lose the stock options.

Do we really want to get upset at companies where the workers are reluctant to organize because they will lose benefits?

[Mother Muckraker]

10. Tesla pay is ~ 1/2 of what NUMMI workers made.

Tesla is already "undercutting union pay" by not having a union. It's not the location of the plant that determines pay. It's whether you have a collective bargaining agreement or not.

NUMMI UAW Local 2244 collective bargaining contract: start $20 after 3 yrs $28/hr w/ health 401k pension dental etc.
Tesla ~$20/hr top pay, starting pay is less.

Those figures with the addition of the benefits amount to Tesla paying their workers about 1/2 of what workers at NUMMI made.

This is done deliberately with the hiring of a union avoidance specialist (union buster) as head of Tesla HR. The hiring back of (exNUMMI) managers is done to keep workers from unionizing. It's a classic union busting tactic. The union busting at Tesla is simply an ongoing effort started at NUMMI. That's how companies keep wages low. When many companies do this en masse, overall middle class wages decline, while the "money saved" goes into the pockets of the rich and powerful.

The idea of electric cars replacing gas cars as the solution to climate change is a huge fallacy. This will not only NOT solve our climate crisis but in the short-term will accelerate global warming burning cheap dirty coal. The only way to stop global warming is to stop using energy. We have to take public transportation, bicycle and walk.

There's been a number of lies coming from Elon Musk. The $500 per month for a Model S, the 5.4-Star safest car ever rating, the promotion of non-GAAP figures to show "profit" when official GAAP figures show a loss, "5 times less likely to catch fire" after the 3rd fire, "we've hired 'hundreds' of exNUMMI workers" and more. These are the lies from a man who wants to make as much for himself as possible. Musk does not care about saving the earth as he has said so himself.

Tesla has produced only about 20,000 cars so far and this accident happens. This kind of thing would never happen at NUMMI even with a much higher production rate at over 400,000 cars/trucks per year. At Tesla, people are discouraged from reporting safety issues. At NUMMI, we had safety reporting forms that workers would fill out which sends out a safety rep from the company AND the union. That's why you unionize. That's why you re-hire experienced workers who know what they're doing.

[grantcart]

11. Your personal animus has left you with disconnected irrational statements.

1) Tesla pays its workers more than Toyota/General Motors workers. Toyota/GM doesn't have any workers at NUMMI. The fact that you think that it is fair to compare

a) long term employees with entry levels in a start up

and

b) employees with factories that are no longer competitive

shows that you are determined to rearrange facts to meet your personal point of view. Half of the companies I worked for are no longer in business. I don't expect the new tenants to hire back the same employees and I don't expect that in joining a new company that they are going to pay me for the seniority I accumulated at another company.

2) As to this little gem

It's not the location of the plant that determines pay

This is perhaps the most ignorant statement made on direct labor manufacturing costs I have ever seen. The last 5 decades has been all about manufacturers relocating their manufacturing base to places that a) have lower rates and b) states that are anti union - (right to work, etc).

The entire furniture industry moved from Chicago to North Carolina/Tennessee and Mississippi. The car industry moved from Detroit to the South. Go tell the union workers at Boeing that establishing new manufacturing in South Carolina isn't about undermining the cost of direct labor.

3) If you were honest about comparing Tesla it would be comparing entry level average position with entry level average at another California car manufacturer.

4) If Tesla was interested in exploited hourly rates for direct labor they wouldn't be starting a new manufacturing plant in California.

Tesla rates are in line with UAW contracts but they also get lucrative stock options. These options would not be part of a standard UAW contract. It is probably this issue which has caused the workers not to opt for unionization. The UAW has said that Musk has been cooperative:

http://www.1853chairman.com/2013/08/08/uaw-looks-to-organize-tesla/

The UAW has met with Musk, and King says the Tesla founder was “very open and said he would respect what the workers wanted.

. . .

“We’re trying to go back to Elon and say, ?You have credibility with us. You’re doing a great job from many different perspectives. We need you to really intervene so workers have the right to exercise their right to join a union,’” King says at UAW headquarters in Detroit.

. . .

Tesla purchased the plant for $50 million in 2010 and is hiring additional production workers according to its website. Starting pay is estimated at $16 per hour, which is in line with the wages paid new workers at Chrysler, Ford and GM under their current UAW contracts and equal to pay at Nissan and VW plants in the U.S.
Tesla’s website says its workers also are eligible to receive company stock, which has gained 411% during the past 52 weeks.

I am guessing that the UAW is delighted that Musk put the plant in California and not Mexico and hope to build a relationship in the future.

What is clear is that you have joined to DU to wage a personal campaign against Tesla, which is fine. The problem is that you aren't honest with the facts.

You omit that Tesla workers have, for example, stock options in addition to hourly rates that make them paid well in excess of other auto workers. The fact that he located the plant in CA and gives his workers stock options makes it clear that he isn't anti union, a fact that the UAW doesn't dispute.

I don't have time to wade through those that have hidden agendas and twist the facts so I will, only for the 2nd or 3rd time exercise the ignore function so I don't have to wade through your anti Tesla propaganda.

Personally I am delighted that we have an American manufacturer who is assembling cars in CA again and shares the profit potential of the company with his employees.

[KamaAina]

13. "The entire furniture industry moved from Chicago"

I thought it was Grand Rapids?

it would be comparing entry level average position with entry level average at another California car manufacturer.

Is there another since NUMMI shut down, because GM pulled out right after raking in the big bucks from the federal bailout?

Sure, we want auto manufacturing here, but not on the same basis as Saturn, which closed anyway.

[grantcart]

16. The American Furniture Mart in Chicago was the largest building in the world in 1923

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/680_N_Lake_Shore_Drive

680 N Lake Shore Drive (a.k.a. Lake Shore Place) is a 29-story building located in the Streeterville neighborhood of Chicago, Illinois. Originally named the American Furniture Mart, it was designed by Henry Raeder and construction was completed in 1926. At 474 ft (144 m) tall and encompassing the entire block between Lake Shore Drive and McClurg Court, it was the largest building in the world when it was completed.

Construction of the American Furniture Mart was undertaken in two phases: the eastern section was completed in 1923, and the western portion (including the tower) in 1926. The eastern half is constructed with reinforced concrete, whereas the western half, as well as the tower, is steel. The building was convertedby David L Paul to condominium and office space between 1979-84. Mr Paul hired Lohan Associates, Inc to be one of two architects.TheDesign concept was Mr Paul,s.. It is now home to 415 condo units divided amongst the building's three separate condominium associations: the Tower, the Lake, and the South residences. There is also 420,000 sq ft (39,000 m2) of commercial office space, 65,000 sq ft (6,000 m2) of retail space, and 7 levels of indoor parking.

The point on compensation for the workers is that the poster is someone who has a personal grudge that he wasn't one of the ones hired to work at Tesla.

Saturn was a subsidiary of General Motors that, yep you guessed it, put their factory in Tennessee. My objection to this is that the poster is comparing apples to pineapples when he compares hourly rates at Tesla to other factories (which are no longer competitive) because in addition to the hourly rate they get stock options, they become part owners of the company.

Musk isn't seeking to exploit cheap labor, he is seeking to exploit advanced manufacturing techniques and if you go on to Youtube can see a documentary about his factory. Because he is going to have the most advanced manufacturing systems his direct man hours per car will be the lowest in the industry, and this is why he can offer not just hourly compensation but shares.

Now the workers haven't opted for union representation because if they were to do so they would have to have a common contract along with other UAW contracts, with no equity, and this is why they are not pursuing union representation.

Do we really want to penalize companies that do more than the union wants?

The UAW continues to say very nice things about Musk. I think that the reason for this is that they understand that if Tesla grows they will eventually discontinue the equity offer for second generation workers and have a great opportunity to add these to the UAW.

Tesla is a very high risk proposition (for example what is the future of supplies of rare minerals needed for massive battery production). In high tech start ups it is not the least bit unusual to try and attract the very best workers by including stock options for workers who see the promise and want to share the risk.

The OP is a committed Tesla hater who has joined DU to post every possible anti Tesla story, including this one about a rather ordinary mishap. I, on the other hand, am delighted that a new heavy manufacturing plant is opening in a union friendly state and engages in sharing the equity with its workers.

[Mother Muckraker]

26. Point by Point

"Personal Grudge"
It's nothing personal because 4500 lost their jobs. 3800 union, 700 non-union.

"Apples to Pineapples"
You used Saturn as an example of something that was uncompetitive which NUMMI was not. NUMMI produced the best selling car of all time.. the Toyota Corolla and the best selling Tacoma. NUMMI consistently achieved the lowest defect rate of ALL Toyota/Lexus plants worldwide as matter of fact from numbers achieved during internal audits of all plants which Toyota does regularly sending people in from Japan.

Stock options should be considered worthless unless you add in when its vested, how much of a discount you get. Also, stock options are like investing in ONE stock which places all your investment in one basket. When investing, the best way is to diversify to minimize risk. Stock options maximize risk Stock options are crap.

Stock options are used to replace 401k matching, pensions and healthcare. It's how they're sold to the workers. Stock options are a rip-off.

Pensions and a 401k with matching like we had at NUMMI are worth much more. Profit hungry Tesla will want to minimize paying of benefits to maximize their profits.

The comparison with NUMMI wages to Tesla wages is an apt comparison as it has to do with union vs non-union pay.

"Advanced manufacturing techniques"
If Tesla did have as many robots as that video implies, this accident would not have occurred.

NUMMI had much of the same robots. If cameras were only pointed at the very fast robots welding the frame, NUMMI would have the same video.

Do you notice how Tesla has painted everything white? That's marketing. It looks different from other factories who do not paint their walls and floors white. The "bling" takes your focus off of the hard work by PEOPLE (labor). Without the white paint and proper camera angles, it will look like any other auto plant.

"Worker won't unionize cuz no equity"
Equity meaning stock options, right? (see above)

They won't unionize because they are being lied to from management who has hired a union avoidance specialist (Steven Cooper) to head HR. For example, the lie that stock options are worth more than health insurance, 401k matching, a pension, dental. A union contract is worth much more.

"The UAW continues to say very nice things about Musk."
That's misleading. Here's what's up with that:

http://www.1853chairman.com/2013/08/08/uaw-looks-to-organize-tesla/

The UAW has met with Musk, and King says the Tesla founder was “very open and said he would respect what the workers wanted. But his operating management has done the opposite. The operating management has taken a very anti-union stance.
“We’re trying to go back to Elon and say, ?You have credibility with us. You’re doing a great job from many different perspectives. We need you to really intervene so workers have the right to exercise their right to join a union,’” King says at UAW headquarters in Detroit.

A union busting operation is centered around the workers' managers ("operating managers&quot where they will control the flow of propaganda and information with threats to workers' livelihoods should they speak out.

"Attracting employees with stock options"
The issue with stock options might not have anything to do with production floor workers. S.O. has more to do with attracting top management rather than production line workers. For all anyone knows, the production floor workers don't even get stock options.

"Tesla Hater"
You got that right. Guilty as charged.

[Mother Muckraker]

19. NUMMI and Tesla... same building

The "replacement" was Tesla which is the same building.

And the story about GM causing the NUMMI shutdown was the big lie from Toyota. The vast majority of revenue is from manufacturing Toyotas (Corolla, Tacoma, Vibe (a Toyota product rebadged) ). GM pulling out had an insignificant effect on revenues

[Ikonoklast]

14. Guess no one ever was injured on the job at NUMMI...oops, they had hundreds of injured

employees at the time the plant was shut down.

Around THREE hundred injured employees.

FREMONT — For about 300 NUMMI workers who are on leave from work because of injuries, this week's shutdown of the Fremont auto factory is a double dose of misfortune.

"It's a travesty what the company is doing for those of us who are injured," said David Martin, a Castro Valley resident who injured his back at the plant in 2005.

The shutdown agreement between New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. and its unionized workers provides for an average severance payment of $54,500. The minimum payment is about $21,175 and the top payout is $68,500. People with more years of service received more.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contracostatimes.com%2Fci_14780485&ei=KFiEUtvJCcnS2gWHl4GgDA&usg=AFQjCNHPAfcFd4Lmoaa3gxwCWIBLEuHxtg&sig2=9JoJljBEUh5e6mODcKADbA&bvm=bv.56343320,d.b2I


If hundreds of experienced unionized employees can be on the injured list, it looks like NUMMI was a dangerous place to work.

Good thing Tesla isn't run like that hellhole.

[Mother Muckraker]

18. 400,000 cars/year = repetitive strain injuries

Those injuries are completely different. When you're producing 400,000+ cars a year (vs <20,000 Tesla), you will have repetitive strain injuries from operations you do literally milllions of times in the course of a year.

[Ikonoklast]

21. I see. You have no problem with NUMMI not doing near enough to have prevented those injuries.

What codswallop.

Get back to me with injury statistics sustained by those working in all auto assembly plants, let's see who is safer.

[Mother Muckraker]

24. Repetitive strain can be minimized but not eliminated - actual stats on the production floor.

The reason why your comparison is not valid is because those 2 types of injuries are completely different. One is due to repetition which can be minimized but not avoidable. The other injuries at Tesla are not repetitive in nature and have more to do with following proper safety procedures. What happened at Tesla IS avoidable.

NUMMI management and the union have done all they can to minimize those injuries. NUMMI had a full-time egonomic team that worked with workers and managers to minimize repetitive strain injuries. They had their own office right across from Medical.

Injury rates at auto assembly plants will always be high simply due to a person performing an operation over and over. When you torque down a bolt with an airgun once, it seems like no big deal, but what if you do it hundreds of thousands of times or even millions?

4 bolts to Corolla seat
500 Corollas per shift

That's 2000 times a day. Heavy vibration.

2000x5days= 10,000 per week

10,000/week x 52weeks/yr = 520,000 times a year

But you don't just bolt those 4 bolts. You have to bend over to reach the 2 bolts on the inside (near the middle of car) which is back intensive which amounts to 260,000 reps a year bending over.

Over the years, it amounts to millions of reps and when that happens, joints and cartilage WILL wear out and workers will eventually sustain an injury. In fact, EVERYONE will suffer an injury given enough time on the line.

Countermeasures has to do with rotating jobs so you stress a different part of your body, being transferred to an "easier" job like Quality Control (QC) or simply keep working & get injured, report the injury, go to Medical and get some time off from work to recover.

That's why with only 20,000 cars a year for Tesla, repetitive strain injuries are less likely. Also, the "stats" Ikonoclast quoted include ALL injuries and does not exclude repetitive strain.

There actually ways to greatly reduce repetitive strain, but big business with their drive for profits will not allow it and people are too ignorant of how things work to make it happen which is why repetitive strain can't practically be eliminated.

To Eliminate Injury (or greatly reduce):
Hire more workers - reducing the number of elements per car
Slow down the pace of the assembly-line - reduce # of times you perform an element.

Advocating either of those is considered heretical and you'll probably be targeted for firing by management.

[Travis_0004]

28. RSI injuries are no less likely at Tesla

If you work an 8 hour shift installing seats in a tesla, its no different than working 8 hours installing seats in a GM vehicle. Perhaps one company could do a better job designing vehicles to minimize RSI injuries, but either way somebody is going to spend 8 hours installing seats.

The only difference is that a company that sells more cars has more people installing seats. Lets assume that 5% of employees get RSI while one the job a year, I would expect that 5% to be consistant with all companies, but GM would have more employees affected because they have more employees.

[Mother Muckraker]

29. installing ~500 seats vs ~83 seats

If you work an 8 hour shift installing seats in a tesla, its no different than working 8 hours installing seats in a GM vehicle.

Incorrect.

8 hour shift at NUMMI = approx 500 cars

8 hour shift at Tesla = approx 83 cars

[Travis_0004]

32. I doubt one person can install 500 seats a day.

I would assume you would have several employees. Installing seats.

Or lets put it this way. If tesla doubles production that employee would not double their output, tesla would get a second employee and the workload per employee would not change.

[Mother Muckraker]

33. I worked at NUMMI

Incorrect again. I worked at NUMMI and have done it myself. But you can't install 500 seats day after day. You have to rotate jobs.

[lonestarnot]

15. Where the hell is Skittles? Skittles!

[Mother Muckraker]

17. State opens probe into Tesla plant injuries

2 of the 3 are still hospitalized.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/State-opens-probe-into-Tesla-plant-injuries-4982904.php

[Bolo Boffin]

22. Thank you for this.

Tesla's active resistance to unions needs publicity and for us to stand against it. Don't let the misguided stop you from posting here.

[JackRiddler]

23. Excuse me, do you mind a question?

I am absolutely not saying you are a software-managed persona or a hired or otherwise assigned shill for anti-Tesla stories on this board. Is that clear? Good.

But if you are, as your persistent and sole function seems to be to place attack pieces about Tesla on the board, do you mind engaging in full disclosure about this? Just because it would be the right thing, you know?

Thank you, presumed fellow individual user not here to push the agenda of any person or organization other than yourself, until proven otherwise.

[Mother Muckraker]

25. See sig for your answer & "full disclosure" of my "sole function"

I knew folks would be offended by me "attacking" Elon Musk and Tesla, so I left info in my sig for those who want to figure out what's up with my posts. You do a Google search and follow me on Twitter & you will know what's up.

Mother Muckraker was the internal newsletter that had to be snuck into the NUMMI plant to tell workers the real reason why Toyota was closing NUMMI. 4500 people at the plant lost their jobs for no good reason. This is nothing personal as it affects not just the 4500 (currently 50% unemployment) but the union busters who shut down NUMMI are still working it in other companies and the political left.

I'm not just about attacking Tesla,but the people who took part in the union busting operation are still at Tesla. Not only are they still there but Tesla management has ramped up their union busting efforts with the rehiring of exNUMMI Group Leaders and the hiring of a union avoidance specialist to head HR (Steven Cooper). There's a lot going on with Tesla NOW and that's why I'm posting stuff about them.

This is all about a union busting operation that started at NUMMI with tenticles through Kaiser Permanente, Tesla,Toyota, Occupy Oakland and the Trotskyist left. There will be other posts about other things besides Tesla in the future. I hope that answers your question of what my "sole function" is.

As far as Tesla goes, there will be much more about Tesla which will be sure to disrupt a few bowels. A list of his lies, Lies comes in 5's (he likes the #5), Muskisms, rehiring a hated anti-labor manager, top 5 myths of Elon (Obama supporter etc), etc.....

[JackRiddler]

27. I can agree with the union part...

and yet find the panic-mongering about the technology rather odious and in the end counterproductive.

[Mother Muckraker]

30. Are There Cockroaches Under Tesla's Hood?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-14/are-there-cockroaches-under-tesla-s-hood-.html

Tesla waited until page four to mention that it had a third-quarter net loss of $38 million under GAAP. It didn’t show a table reconciling its GAAP and non-GAAP numbers until several pages later.

That practice of accentuating the positive and downplaying the negative seems to fly in the face of Securities and Exchange Commission rules that say companies must give “equal or greater prominence” to GAAP numbers when they present their financial results. The SEC passed those rules a decade ago in response to widespread abuses of non-GAAP measurements. The regulations apply to companies’ regular SEC filings, as well as earnings releases that companies furnish to the SEC as exhibits.
----
The bigger concern here should be what some investors call the “cockroach theory": Where there is one problem, there probably are more. Tesla has disclosed compliance failures before. In March, its management concluded that Tesla’s ‘‘internal control over financial reporting was ineffective as of Dec. 31, 2012.’’ Its auditor, PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP, concurred. In a related matter, Tesla had to restate its cash-flow numbers for much of 2011 and 2012. In its latest quarterly report, filed last week, Tesla said its controls still weren’t effective as of Sept. 30.

[Starry Messenger]

31. I just want to let you know I really appreciate your posts.

I hope you write articles about all of this.