JFK Conference: John McAdams, debunks the nonsense

[zappaman]

Everyone here at Duquesne University’s International Symposium on the 50th Anniversary of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy agreed that Kennedy had been murdered, brazenly, brutally. But the old men on the dais and in the audience, with their tweedy getups and rapidly spreading bald spots, could not concur on who had done it and how and why. Maybe Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy. Maybe a second gunman had done it. Maybe he (or they) were acting on Castro’s orders, maybe on Hoover’s, maybe on Johnson’s. A lot of support coalesced around the CIA’s complicity. But who at the CIA would have had the President killed? And how?

Bobbing along like any other tern in this sea of skepticism and paranoia was John McAdams, a 68-year-old associate professor of political science at Marquette. McAdams looked like every anonymous student of the assassination: He, too, had tan pants, a briefcase, and silver hair atop a big head with prominent features. On the last day, before a full house, one speaker praised McAdams for having the guts to turn up. The speaker called for a sarcastic round of applause and then went on with his speech.

“That’s because I’m a debunker,” McAdams said afterward. “I debunk things. I’m in the business of knowing how so much of what is said here is nonsense.”

-snip-

McAdams doesn’t see any great stakes here. To him, it’s all sport. “It’s a hobby. Shouldn’t it be fun?”

Read more: One Man's Long Battle Against Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy Theories | TIME.com http://nation.time.com/2013/11/05/the-debunker-among-the-buffs/#ixzz2kZHBkdat


Read more: One Man's Long Battle Against Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy Theories | TIME.com http://nation.time.com/2013/11/05/the-debunker-among-the-buffs/#ixzz2kZGs7Swo

[Pretzel_Warrior]

1. ...........

How long until JFK CT exception is removed? The number of people posting threads and replies on this subject is a joke.

[zappaman]

2. Certainly was rude of him

to interrupt the gnawing of JFK's bones...

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. Was puking at the JFK garbage--not this debunker.

[zappaman]

5. Well, some people think Oswald may have been a hero!

I wonder if the Kennedy family thought Oswald may have been a hero...

Thoughts?

"As for Oswald, I don't know if he was a hero in all this or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672

[SidDithers]

4. DU rec...nt

Sid

[zappaman]

144. Sure is a lot more truthier than Mark Lane, eh? n/t

[HooptieWagon]

6. I have read through much of his website....

...and I agree with him. Some of the CT witnesses just defy all logic. Many of them have changed and embellished their stories over the years, which makes them less credible. The evidence pointing towards Oswald as the sole perpetrator has remained strong. One simply cannot discard it without providing even stronger evidence that it should.
A far better approach to investigating the JFK assassination would be for researchers to simply uncover whatever evidence remains (primarily documents, at this point 50 years later) and provide verification of its authenticity. Let others determine where it fits. That way ALL potential evidence is considered.
When a researcher has already decided upon a conclusion, they are only going to look for and reveal evidence supporting that conclusion and ignore the rest. Then sign a book deal. Naturally this calls into question their motives and integrity.

[zappaman]

7. CTers hate this guy.

They try like hell to discredit him, but it's hard to discredit someone who sticks to the facts and not outlandish theories.

[HooptieWagon]

17. No doubt they do.

Facts are a threat to the gravy train.

[zappaman]

112. True enough.

The profit generated by the assassination of this man is enormous.

50 years later, the vultures are still picking at the bones...although they are certainly taken less seriously.

[lame54]

155. sounds like this guy has a pre-determined conclusion

[HooptieWagon]

161. No. It sounds like the guy looked at the evidence....

and saw nothing to conclude there was a conspiracy.

[lame54]

163. Not based on the links given

[zappaman]

178. As many people have.

Not because of what the Warren Commission said, but because that is where the evidence leads.

[Politicalboi]

8. I go by the secret service that was called off JFK's car

Even they were stumped. But hey, I guess we will NEVER really know.

[zappaman]

9. Forget about being called off! Apparently, the secret service actually shot him!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4007245

[Politicalboi]

16. Yes I've heard that or the Governor shot him LOL!

But why were his SS guys called off? I know JFK liked to be close to the people, but that was protocol. You must have seen that video. Did you see how crowded LBJ car was with SS guys. Oh and it happened in Texas, another convenient place for law and order in LBJ's state.

[zappaman]

18. I went to the first assassination symposium in Dallas in 1991.

I wrote an article about it for a national magazine using the upcoming release of JFK as a tie-in.

Swear to God, I had a guy come up to me while I was looking at a diorama of Dealey Plaza and tell me that LBJ shot JFK.
According to this guy, LBJ leaped out of his car wearing a long trenchcoat, ran across the grass and shot JFK with a pistol. Then he dashed back to his car.
He was utterly serious and had an answer for all of my skepticism.

Then again, don't CTers have an answer for any skepticism?

[Wilms]

24. Whoa. Pretty incredible.

And it pretty much ends the debate. Since that guy was obviously delusional, it proves that the official account is correct. Did I get that right?

[zappaman]

26. Nope.

Just sharing another conspiracy theory.

[EOTE]

42. Was that an attempt to answer the question?

Because if it was, that's one hell of a non sequitor.

[zappaman]

43. Yes.

Responding to the idea LBJ was involved.
Thanks for participating!

[EOTE]

45. I was referring to this one:

"But why were his SS guys called off?"

And you should know that a number of his SS detail have contradicted the reports that he was difficult to protect and that he requested that they keep their distance.

[zappaman]

47. Someone answered it in #28. n/t

[EOTE]

49. Not really. That's pretty much entirely debunked info.

Again, a number of SS agents part of his detail contradicted the assertion that Kennedy had ever requested that they keep their distance. Also, the WCR in general has been pretty thoroughly destroyed by the HSCA which stated that almost undoubtedly that there was a conspiracy surrounding JFK's assassination.

[stopbush]

56. The HSCA was absolutely wrong about the conspiracy. Their finding

was entirely based on the Dictabelt "evidence" which was disputed at the time by the NAS and that has been absolutely falsified in the intervening years.

Beyond that little foible, the HSCA confirmed the findings of the WCR almost to a tee: Oswald fired 3 shots, with his second and third shots hitting JFK; they found NO involvement of the mob, the Cubans, the Russians or any of the US government agencies in the murder.

The WCR contains letters from JFK's SS Detail that recount times when JFK ordered them off his limo. JFK SS detail members Gerald Blaine and Clint Hill emphatically state on The Kennedy Detail that JFK ordered the agents off his limo.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[EOTE]

58. Ahhh, so the HSCA was absolutely wrong about everything...

except for what they say that confirms what you're so certain to be true. You're also neglecting to note that the HSCA noted that it was almost certain that there was more than one gun man. And Secret Service agents after the WCR negated Blaine and Hill's testimony.

[stopbush]

60. Typical CTists with your either/or, black-and-white framing of things.

No, the HSCA wasn't wrong about EVERYTHING, but they were wrong about the conspiracy. The Warren Commission wasn't right about everything, but they got 95% of the story right.

BTW - please provide your sources for SS agents from Kennedy's detail negating Blaine & Hill's testimony.

[EOTE]

61. Again, they were wrong about the things you disagreed with.

I never said they were wrong about everything or suggested you said that. It's YOU who are thinking in black and white terms. More to the point, you think that truth is a buffet where you pick out exactly what fits your agenda.

[stopbush]

62. ??? Of course you suggested that I said that.

The subject line for your last post was "Ahhh, so the HSCA was absolutely wrong about everything..."

Short term memory problems?

[stopbush]

66. Excuse me, but the HSCA was wrong about the validity of the Dictabelt evidence

based on their own criteria.

" In December 1978, the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) had prepared a draft of its final report, concluding that Lee Harvey Oswald had acted alone as the assassin. However, after evidence from the Dictabelt recording was made available, the HSCA quickly reversed its conclusion and declared that a second gunman had fired the third of four shots heard. G. Robert Blakey, chief counsel of the HSCA, later said, "If the acoustics come out that we made a mistake somewhere, I think that would end it." Despite serious criticism of the scientific evidence and the HSCA's conclusions, speculation regarding the Dictabelt and the possibility of a second gunman persisted.

Investigators compared "impulse patterns" (suspected gunshots and associated echos) on the Dictabelt to 1978 test recordings of Carcano rifles fired in Dealey Plaza from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository and from a stockade fence on the grassy knoll forward and to the right of the location of the presidential limousine. On this basis, the acoustics firm of Bolt, Beranek and Newman concluded that impulse patterns 1, 2, and 4 were shots fired from the Depository, and that there was a 50% chance that impulse pattern 3 was a shot from the grassy knoll. Acoustics analysts Mark Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy, of Queens College, reviewed the BBN data and concluded that "with the probability of 95% or better, there was indeed a shot fired from the grassy knoll."

"Dr. James E. Barger, of Bolt, Beranek and Newman, testified to the HSCA that his statistical analysis of the impulse patterns captured on the Dallas police recordings showed that the motorcycle with the open microphone was approximately "120 to 138 feet" behind the presidential limousine at the time of the first shot. When the HSCA asked Weiss about the location of the motorcycle with the open microphone—"Would you consider that to be an essential ingredient in the ultimate conclusion of your analysis?"—Weiss answered, "It is an essential component of it, because, if you do not put the motorcycle in the place that it is [at]—the initial point of where it was receiving the [sound of the gunfire]—, and if you do not move it at the velocity at which it is being moved on paper in this re-creation, you do not get a good, tight pattern that compares very well with the observed impulses on the police tape recording."

The HSCA, using an amateur film shot of the motorcade, concluded that the recording originated from the motorcycle of police officer H. B. McLain, who later testified before the committee that his microphone was often stuck in the open position. However, McLain did not hear the actual recording until after his testimony, and upon hearing it he adamantly denied that the recording originated from his motorcycle. He said that the other sounds on the tape did not match his movements. Sirens are not heard on the tape until more than two minutes after what is supposed to be the sound of the shooting; however, McLain accompanied the motorcade to Parkland Hospital immediately after the shooting, with sirens blaring the entire time. When the sirens are heard on the Dictabelt recording, they rise and recede in pitch (the Doppler effect) and volume, as if passing by. McLain also said that the engine sound was clearly from a three-wheeled motorcycle, not the two-wheeler that he drove: "There's no comparison to the two sounds."

Other audio discrepancies also exist. Crowd noise is not heard on the Dictabelt recording, despite the sounds generated from the many onlookers along Dallas's Main Street and in Dealey Plaza (crowd noises can be heard on at least ten channel-2 transmissions from the motorcade). Someone is heard whistling a tune about a minute after the assassination. No one actually heard gunshots on the recording.
The only evidence that HSCA had for a second shooter was the Dictabelt sound recording.Four of the twelve HSCA members dissented to the HSCA's conclusion of conspiracy based on the acoustic findings, and a fifth thought a further study of the acoustic evidence was "necessary".

Richard Sprague, an expert on photographic evidence of the assassination and a consultant to the HSCA, noted that the amateur film the HSCA relied on showed that there were no motorcycles between those riding alongside the rear of the presidential limousine and H.B. McLain's motorcycle, and that other films showed McLain's motorcycle was actually 250 feet behind the presidential limousine when the first shot was fired, not 120 to 138 feet. No motorcycle was anywhere near the target area. (Source: Wikipedia)

[zappaman]

73. This has been posted hundereds of times on DU alone.

CTers know it but it is amazing they still pretend they don't.

[stopbush]

76. They're just like the climate change deniers and the supply side economic supporters.

No matter what the evidence is, they won't be shaken off their fantasies.

[zappaman]

113. Agreed!

Kinda like creationists as well.
Screw facts and science, someone saw a puff of smoke!

[GoneFishin]

126. +1000. Truth is a buffet. Awesome.

[HooptieWagon]

78. The Warren Commission called out the SS...

....for several slip ups. Yea, JFK did want the open-top car, the low-speed parade, and other security risks...but the SS had some screw-ups too. Doesn't change the fact that a lone nut killed the POTUS, though.

[zappaman]

132. No, it doesn't. n/t

[RobinA]

127. My Personal Favorite

is the one that has a shooter popping up from a manhole cover in front of the limo. And shooting Kennedy from the front. Complete with shadowy picture of head and gun sticking out of the manhole.

[hack89]

21. They were minutes from entering a freeway

The SS went back to the cars they would be riding in at high speed on the freeway.

[stopbush]

28. All covered in the WCR and explained by the SS agents themselves over the years.

Last edited Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:48 PM - Edit history (2)

First off, the SS agents were riding on the limo at various times during the motorcade. Just look at the videos.

JFK's standing order was that he preferred they not be on the limo. THAT was standard protocol per JFK's own wishes. They were off the limo as it turned onto Elm because that was the approach to the Stemmons Fwy, and the agents never rode on the limo when it was driving at high speed. The limo was about to accelerate to freeway speed, so they weren't on it.

The CTists would have you believe that the SS was waved off the limo at Love Field, and that JFK had no protection for the whole of the motorcade. Simply untrue.

Simple explanation and SOP for the SS under JFK. All explained by the agents themselves in the TV show The Kennedy Detail, which aired again last night.

BTW - not to blame the dead, but at some point, JFK's apparent belief that he was invincible - or, perhaps, that fate and destiny were what they are - didn't help matters on 11/22/63. After all, it was JFK himself who told the SS to stay off the limo, and not just in Dallas.

Perhaps he just felt that if things were going to happen, he couldn't stop them. Sort of like the way troops invading Normandy were told it didn't matter where you stood, you might get killed, so may as well follow orders and advance under fire. This was, after all, a man who survived his PT boat being cut in two by a Japanese destroyer. This was a man who had the Catholic Last Rites read over him three times in his life before he was killed. This is a man who didn't exactly try to hide his many dalliances in the WH and elsewhere.

There's JFK's own words, spoken to Jackie and his CoS Kenny O'Donnell in Ft Worth the morning of the assassination: "if someone wants to kill the president of the United States, all they need do is use a high-powered rifle from a tall building. No one could stop them (paraphrased)."

Wait! Maybe JFK himself was in on the conspiracy!

[zappaman]

117. "Maybe JFK himself was in on the conspiracy!"

You may have hit upon the one idea that hasn't been explored/exploited ad nauseum.

Write a book and make some money!

[Bolo Boffin]

119. Clearly JFK shot Connolly.

Any pathway for a bullet to hit Connolly and account for all his wounds would go through Kennedy, right? Except for a pathway that started in front of Kennedy.

I think I may have cracked this cold case. Kennedy wasn't in Dallas to heal wounds with the Democratic Party! He was there to dish them out. And when he shot Connolly, the Texas Rangers in the grassy knoll shot him in retaliation!

This is huge.

[RobinA]

128. Well,

Didn't there used to be frequent JFK sightings in the tabloids? It was all a ruse to disappear and not be bothered. He knew there was no way he was going to avoid Vietnam, let that mess be on someone else's watch.

[zappaman]

129. yes

[Rex]

10. So the article never gets into what McAdams believes or his evidence.

Just that he is a 'debunker' and is number #1 nasty guy at these JFK conferences. At least we both agree on one thing, Oswald shot and killed JFK. That much is made known in the article. Other then that, there is nothing as to why anyone should believe him anymore than the CT pushers.

[zappaman]

11. His site is very extensive and is mentioned in the article.

I would suggest going there if interested in going beyond conspiracy theory...
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Rex]

12. I said I agree with his conspiracy theory

that LHO shot JFK. We both agree on that CT.

[zappaman]

14. Understood.

I was replying to this
"Other then that, there is nothing as to why anyone should believe him anymore than the CT pushers."

From the article, that's true.
That's why I posted the site so anyone can get more information.

[Rex]

15. I will look it over, I bet I agree with more of what he says

then most do or will even give his information a chance to sink in. I will look at the link, thanks!

[duffyduff]

13. There are lots of us out here who don't buy the conspiracy b.s.

What we do is look at the evidence, not at motive, and everything leads to Oswald as the lone killer.

[zappaman]

143. EVERYTHING leads to Oswald as the lone killer.

It cannot be said enough.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. McAdams is right: it is a hobby, a parlor game

Anyone who takes assassination conspiracy theorizing as anything other than a fun hobby is just a sad case. It should be fun. It's a parlor game. There are zero stakes for anybody in any serious sense. It is an exercise in hypothetical argumentation.

here's the thing: conspiracy theorists know this even if they won't agree. They do it because it gives them pleasure. It is a pasttime, like bridge or woodworking. Less useful than woodworking, though.

[zappaman]

36. Yes, but for some it becomes an obsession.

If not checked, EVERYTHING becomes a conspiracy.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. It would be more fun to poke CTers with their silliness if not for

the violence they do to the historical record of very serious subjects. They do a disservice to the very subjects they claim to be so concerned about.

[zappaman]

22. True.

Very very true.

[McXorsett]

23. Saint McAdams gets reviewed

And it's not pretty: http://www.ctka.net/reviews/mcadams_Cassano.html

[stopbush]

30. The review reads like the pouting of a petulant child

who was just told that Santa Claus doesn't exist.

You're right, it isn't pretty, and it certainly isn't what I'd call professional.

[solarhydrocan]

31. Interesting link. Thx for posting. He's done a pretty thorough analysis.

Everyone should tour Dealey Plaza via Street View on Google earth. There's nothing like it, other than actually going there. You can get an idea of distance very well and there's an X on the pavement where JFK was shot. It's also an historical district so nothing has changed since '63

[stopbush]

32. Haven't visited, but I've heard many say that they're surprise at what a short distance

it is from the sniper's nest to that X on the pavement.

JFK's SS agents say just that on the TV show The Kennedy Detail.

[Rex]

33. Link?

[stopbush]

35. As I said in the post, that's what the SS agents themselves

say in The Kennedy Detail.

[MicaelS]

40. I've lived in Fort Worth for 25 years.

The very first time I visited Dealy Plaza, I could not believe how small the place was. It looks enormous on film and TV. It is a near equilateral triangle about 400 ft on a side. I stood on the X spot, looked up, and said, "Holy shit, Oswald could have done it all by himself."

After the Sixth Floor Museum was opened, and I visited it, and stood next to the window where Oswald is supposed to have fired from, that convinced me. I said to myself. "Well LHO did it all by himself, and all those Conspiracy books I have read over the years are so much crap."

I think LHO did it alone, he used his Carcano rifle, and he used the iron sights for the fatal shot. He might have used the optical sights for the first shot, but I think he realized the scope was off, and used the iron sights for the last two shots. The again he might have realized the optical sight was off when he tried to shoot Walker, and missed.

[stopbush]

41. As far as using the optical site goes,

the inaccuracy/accuracy of the shots seems to indicate that Oswald may have used the misaligned optic site and adjusted as he shot additional shots. If his target was JFK's head, he misses the first shot entirely, he adjusts and hits JFK in the upper back/neck, he adjusts again and hits his head. Makes perfect logical sense. I heard that explanation put forward on the TV show Capturing Oswald.

[MicaelS]

44. Agreed. n/t

[zappaman]

116. Very possible! n/t

[Zen Democrat]

177. I have. And the conundrum is why didn't the shooter in the window shoot him on Houston Street.

That was the perfect spot for the closest and clearest shot, not down Elm Street through the Live Oak trees which were in full leaf. That's why they don't let people in that window anymore. The shot down Elm Street makes no sense except for triangulated fire. The car slowed down to 9 miles an hour to make the turn from Houston, right under the 6th floor window. It makes no sense.

Also, McAdams is a joke.

FYI: Clint Hill has changed his story over the years. There's no reason whatsoever why he was the only SS agent to get off the followup car while the President's limo was being shot up. And he was protecting Jackie, not the President. No agent assigned to protect the President of the United States made any effort to move off the SS car, even when the limo slowed down. LBJ soon thereafter fired the SS Director and transferred, retired or fired most of the agents in Dallas.

[Rex]

34. I dunno his site is pretty good, he knows his subject very well.

nt.

[The Midway Rebel]

67. Hey kewl! A JFK CT iPhone App for only $0.99

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/50th-jfk-assassination/id665633320?mt=8

What will they think of next?

And yeah, I concur with the other poster regarding this review of the Mcadams book.

[Octafish]

25. TIME-LIFE spread the original Big Lie

Zapruder Film

EXCERPT...

By 25th November, 1963, Zapuder's film had been sold to Life Magazine. In charge of the purchase was C. D. Jackson, a close friend of Henry Luce, the owner of the magazine. According to Carl Bernstein, Jackson was "Henry Luce's personal emissary to the CIA". When appearing before the Warren Commission, Zapruder claimed he received $25,000 and then gave this money to the Firemen's and Policemen's Benevolence. However, when the contract was eventually published it showed that Zapruder received $150,000 for the eighteen-second film.

[font color="red"]On 29th November Life Magazine, published a series of 31 photographs documenting the entire shooting sequence from the Zapruder film. It was only later discovered that the critical frames that depicted the rearward motion of Kennedy's head were transposed to indicate a forward motion. [/font color]James Wagenvoord, the editorial business manager and assistant to Life Magazines Executive Editor, realized that a mistake had been made: "I asked about it when the stills were first printed, (they didn't read right) and then duped for distribution to the European and British papers/magazines. The only response I go was an icy stare from Dick Pollard, Life's Director of Photography. So being an ambitious employee, I had them distributed." In 1965 FBI director J. Edgar Hoover explained this reversing of the Zapruder frames as a "printing error".

Ray Marcus was one of those people who purchased a copy of the magazine. He told John Kelin: "I wasn't sure of it, as there weren't enough other photographs available. But the direction in which the shoulders slumped presented a picture of the man just as he was hit, and it indicated to me that the shot could have come from the front."

In its 6th December, 1963, Paul Mandel wrote an article about the assassination of John F. Kennedy. "The doctor said one bullet passed from back to front on the right side of the President’s head. But the other, the doctor reported, entered the President’s throat from the front and then lodged in his body. Since by this time the limousine was 50 yards past Oswald and the President’s back was turned almost directly to the sniper, it has been hard to understand how the bullet could enter the front of his throat. Hence the recurring guess that there was a second sniper somewhere else. But the 8mm film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed – toward the sniper’s nest – just before he clutches it." Jim Marrs has argued: "The account is patently wrong, as anyone who has seen the film can verify. The reason for such wrongful information at such a critical time will probably never be known, as the author of this statement, Paul Mandel, died shortly afterward."

CONTINUED...

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKzapruderF.htm

Praising John McAdams on the 50th anniversary is most telling.

[zappaman]

27. Mark Lane spread the original big lies blaming a conspiracy.

Here's just one...

"During the reading I checked some of Mark Lane's footnotes. The testimony he had cited as evidence that the Warren Report was a cover-up had often been quoted out of context, so that what he quoted changed the meaning of what had actually been said. For example, the way Lane wrote about Jack Ruby's testimony led readers to believe that Ruby was denied the opportunity to reveal the existence of a conspiracy.

...Ruby told Warren:

'No subversive organization gave me any idea. No underworld person made any effort to contact me. It all happened that Sunday morning...If you don't take me back to Washington tonight to give me a chance to prove to the President that I am not guilty, then you will see the most tragic thing that will ever happen...All I want is a lie detector test...All I want to do is tell the truth, and that is all. There was no conspiracy.'

The following month Ruby was allowed to take a polygraph test in his jail cell, and he showed no signs of deception when he denied being part of a conspiracy. Because of the doubts about his sanity, however, the test results were considered inconclusive.

The only part of this background that appears in Lane's book is Ruby's statement, 'All I want to do is tell the truth, and that is all.' Had he presented the accompanying material, Lane might have argued that Ruby was faking. Instead, Lane cheated. He transformed a man who seemed pathetically anxious to prove his innocence into an honest conspirator desperate to reveal everything he knew. And this was only one of many similar distortions in RUSH TO JUDGMENT.

I remember feeling outraged when I realized what Lane had done. Evidently, the Warren records were like a vast lumber yard. By picking up a few pieces here and there, and doing some cutting and fitting, any theory could be built for which someone had a blueprint." ---Jean Davison in Oswald's Game pp. 17-19.

[stopbush]

29. Apparently, anybody and everybody who was around at the time of the assassination

was in on the conspiracy.

I'll bet even Highlights For Kids spread the big lie.

[FSogol]

38. Goofus Believes the Church Committee Report, Gallant Profits By Writing Books on the Subject.

[zappaman]

74. How is this not been made into a major motion picture? n/t

[FSogol]

75. LOL, Someone get Vince Vaughn and Adam Sandler's agents on the phone.

[zappaman]

77. Actually I know the reason...

I have a friend in the movie business who tried to get the rights a few times.
The guy who created it is some sort of fundy and refuses to sell the rights.

It could be funny though!

[FSogol]

80. Garry Cleveland Myers (the writer of Goofus/Gallant) created Highlights Magazine too.

Most of those cartoons were just reprints from the 50s. He died in 1971, so it shouldn't be that hard to get the rights. One of his kids must want a payday. He was a psychologist, iirc.

[zappaman]

82. Yeah

I think he is trying to protect the legacy and integrity

[FSogol]

83. What a chump.

Just kidding. I can respect that.

Goofus makes an Adam Sandler Movie, Gallant protects his creator's legacy and integrity.

[zappaman]

86. Goofus blames the BFEE for everything

And relies on bullshit to back his crazy conspiracy claims.

Gallant carefully examines the facts and evidence in the case and agrees the Warren Commission got it right.

It writes itself!

[Octafish]

98. I don't understand why you make fun of the BFEE, zappaman.

Their trail as warmonger-banksters goes back at least to war profiteering during World War I, when Samuel Prescott Bush ran Remington selling rifles to both sides. Before that, there's evidence their ancestors were slave holders.

I've talked about his son, Prescott Sheldon Bush; grandson, George Herbert Walker Bush; and great-grandsons, George Walker Bush, John Ellis (Jeb) Bush, and Neil Mallon Bush. From what you've written about the BFEE, you seem to take their side, which is odd for someone interested in supporting democracy.

We've talked about it before, yet you keep repeating your position in their defense: http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=edit&forum=1002&thread=3673662&pid=3680715

[zappaman]

99. Not making fun of the BFEE, Octafish.

Try again...

[Octafish]

100. Your words, zappaman.

Post 86: Goofus blames the BFEE for everything

And relies on bullshit to back his crazy conspiracy claims.

Gallant carefully examines the facts and evidence in the case and agrees the Warren Commission got it right.

It writes itself!

[zappaman]

101. Thank you for kicking!

On the 50th anniversary of JFK's assassination at the hands of a little no-good, wife-beating, murdereing pissant, it is important that people get the facts and not rely on those that seek to profit on this horrible event.

Thank you for keeping this where everyone can see!

[Octafish]

102. Judging by what's in this thread, you've really not much to brag about, zappaman.

I was at the Duquesne conference. TIME-LIFE got that wrong, too.

[zappaman]

104. Thanks again!

I agree it's important to keep this kicked and when we double our efforts, we show that we can indeed work together!

[Octafish]

108. If TIME-LIFE were honest, they'd address CIA-Mafia assassination plots.

Instead, they write glowingly about a self-described "debunker" who has demonstrated loyalty to CIA. "Trust us. We're innocent. There's nothing in those documents or in this documentary record of lies and obstruction of justice."

Of course, TIME-LIFE doesn't mention the importance of CIA officer George Joannides, who was part of the CIA anti-Castro activities in New Orleans at the same time Lee Harvey Oswald came in contact with same. Nor does TIME-LIFE mention how CIA pulled Joannides out of retirement to take over CIA-Congress "liaison" duties with the the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) and how he failed to inform our Representatives of his previous ties. Nor does TIME-LIFE mention the newly declassified records that show CIA lied to President Kennedy and Attorney General Kennedy after they ordered them to stop those programs that were started by CIA director Allen Dulles in the Eisenhower Administration. That was all covered at the Duquesne conference.

All that would be in TIME, if they were they honest. Instead we get John McAdams and his acolyte on DU, zappaman.

For those interested in learning more.

[zappaman]

111. For those intersted in learning more

about the facts of the assassination and not just what hucksters out to make a buck on JFK's corpse want you to think in whatever book they are flogging...

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Spider Jerusalem]

103. "There's evidence their ancestors were slave holders"...so?

My ancestors were slaveowners. So were Bill Clinton's and Harry Truman's and for that matter Barack Obama's. I'm not sure what that has to do with much of anything that's gone on in the hudred and fifty, or two hundred, or three hundred, years since.

[Octafish]

105. Explains a lot. NT

[Spider Jerusalem]

106. About Bill Clinton, or Barack Obama?

[zappaman]

107. About the mindset of someone who can't argue their points.

Deflection seems to work for some here.

But, I agree with Octafish that this thread should be kicked so people can actually learn the facts of the assassination and not just what the vultures who write hundreds of books write as they profit off one of the worst events in American history.

[Octafish]

109. That's why I put it in my Journal.

That way, people know where I'm coming from, check my sources, and learn more.

You should start one, too, zappaman.

Snork.

[zappaman]

110. Good job!

Keeping this kicked with you!

[zappaman]

138. I do have a journal, my friend.

Surprised you haven't seen it!

[Octafish]

140. Wow. Four items and two are about me.

Your obsession is a marvel to behold. Way to go, zappaman.

[zappaman]

141. Thank you and thank you for the kick my friend!

You cooking the turkey again this year for the family?

Check out this recipe!

http://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/cooking-tips/article/alton-brown-s-perfect-roast-turkey

Hope you have a great holiday!

[Logical]

37. LOL, I honestly cannot tell if you really believe this crap. Nt

[Octafish]

39. John McAdams on ''Gay Parenting''

It’s been a matter of politically correct dogma: kids of gay and lesbian parents do just was well as kids of straight married couples. So anybody with any reservations about gays having children must be some sort of evil homophobe.

But now comes a scholarly study (in Review of Economics of the Household) that shows that kids with gay and lesbian parents are at a disadvantage.

CONTINUED...

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2013/10/new-study-gay-parenting-not-good-for.html

So, no, I don't believe that crap.

[stopbush]

46. If you're going to take McAdams to task on that,

then I'm sure you'll take RFK Jr to task for cheating on his wife and possibly driving her to suicide.

You must take Mark Lane to task for all the lying he's done on the JFK assassination and other topics, lies that have drawn strong rebukes from the courts.

You must totally dismiss Jim DeEugenio for being such a Jim Garrison apologist, as Garrison was an unethical asshole, or as Sylvia Meagher, wrote in 1967: "...as the Garrison investigation continued to unfold, it gave cause for increasingly serious misgivings about the validity of his evidence, the credibility of his witnesses, and the scrupulousness of his methods. The fact that many critics of the Warren Report have remained passionate advocates of the Garrison investigation, even condoning tactics which they might not condone on the part of others, is a matter of regret and disappointment."

[zappaman]

48. CTers can't counter McAdams since he is presenting facts they don't like.

Hence, they have to attack him personally.
Sad, really.

[Octafish]

50. What attack? Those are his own words, zappaman.

When repeating that Oswald acted alone, why do you use a right wing hack, zappaman?

[zappaman]

51. Still trying to prove Oswald was a hero, Octafish?

How's that going?

"As for Oswald, I don't know if he was a hero in all this or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672

[Octafish]

52. Here's what CIA said about Oswald in Mexico City in October 1963...

Then, the CIA said THIS is the Lee Oswald they were talking about:



Seems like something is not right there, too.

[zappaman]

53. thank you for kicking!

wow, I guess the CIA sure felt stupid having no idea an embassy would have a camera!
if they had, they might have had the foresight to get someone who looked somewhat like LHO>

By the way, how does this help you prove LHO may have been a hero???


"As for Oswald, I don't know if he was a hero in all this or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672

[Octafish]

54. No. The record shows CIA planted a false story ahead of the assassination.

For some reason, it appears certain CIA officers were leaving an "evidentiary" trail for people after the assassination to conclude Oswald was in cahoots with Cuba and the USSR. Were that story to hit the mainstream media, there'd be an understandable outcry for war with the Soviet Union, which is exactly the same as what disgraced CIA director and later Warren Commission member Allen Dulles had counseled President Kennedy to do in "Fall 1963." What a coincidence not.

[zappaman]

55. Thanks for kicking!

I agree that the CIA made a boner by not realizing an embassy would have cameras!.
So stupid of them to do that when planning the assassination of the President of the United States in broad daylight!

Man, that war we got into with the USSR totally proves your point!
How many bombs got dropped again? I forget...

[Octafish]

57. No. The record shows CIA planted a false story ahead of the assassination.

The record shows CIA counseled an all-out sneak attack in Fall of 1963.

The record shows Allen Dulles was one of the people who personally made the recommendation to President Kennedy.

The record shows Allen Dulles also was one of the people who withheld information from the Warren Commission, specifically that the CIA he headed had conspired with the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Castro in 1960.

When it comes to what you post on DU, zappaman, the record shows you miss those points.

[zappaman]

59. Thanks for the kick!

Again, when did we "sneak attack" the USSR?
With JFK out of the way, surely it happened, right?

Oh, and how do your little blue links help make LHO a hero?

"As for Oswald, I don't know if he was a hero in all this or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672

[snooper2]

65. Do you run a major website with all this information?

If you are this into it you should at least have a youtube channel. Need help setting up a good one up- you'll probably be a partner in 3 months:? (adsense pays)

[Octafish]

69. No. But, thanks for asking.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3808216

Your reminder served to motivate me.

While it cost me considerable expense, I have not asked nor received money for discussing the assassination of President Kennedy or any of the other crimes of the national security state I have long written about on DU.

[stopbush]

63. Do you have a source for the CIA saying that was LHO in that Mexico City photo?

I hadn't heard that before, or I have forgotten it.

Thanks in advance for providing the source from the CIA.

[Bolo Boffin]

64. That lasted about a day.

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2013, 01:14 AM - Edit history (1)

Then they corrected themselves on November 23.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=3332

But now here we are 50 years later, and this is evidence of the great conspiracy...

[Octafish]

70. No, evidence showing CIA monitoring Oswald BEFORE the assassination has held up for 50 years.

"No, that’s one angle that’s very confusing, for this reason—we have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet embassy, using Oswald’s name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this man’s voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet embassy down there." -- J. Edgar Hoover to President Lyndon B. Johnson, Nov. 23, 1963

SOURCE: http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/The_Mexico_City_Tapes

FTR: This is the one taped conversation erased from the records, evidence someone in authority doesn't want the People to know about the discussion. In my book, that's obstruction of justice.

Rex Bradford has written about this almost-lost history, available on the page at the link above.

[HooptieWagon]

81. No doubt the CIA was keeping an eye on him.

So was the FBI, Naval Intelligence, the State Dept, and the KGB.

So tell me, if Oswald was part of a conspiracy to assassinate JFK, why did he wait until the night before to pick up his rifle, which meant he couldn't also retreive his pistol? Did the conspiracy not exist before 11/21? If the conspiracy existed earlier, Oswald would have retrieved his rifle the weekend prior, when he was visiting Marina at the Paine house. If the conspiracy didn't exist until 11/21, then how could such a large conspiracy be organized so quickly?

[Octafish]

68. Here you go.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/contents/hsca/contents_hsca_lopezrpt_2003.htm

[stopbush]

79. Not helpful. The question is whether the CIA identified the mystery man as Oswald.

And if they did, did they stick by their claim and for how long.

Your link doesn't address that issue. You seem to be clinging to a simple case of mistaken identification, the kind of thing that happens all the time.

Unless you can prove that the CIA never backed off their claim that the picture was of Oswald, what's the point?

[Octafish]

85. Read "The Man Who Knew Too Much" by Dick Russell

On page 491, you'll find:

Under normal circumstances, one would expect that any American -- let
alone Oswald -- who was meeting with a trio including the KGB's chief
(Yatskov), assassinations specialist (Kostikov) and "most dangerous"
operative in the Western Hemisphere (Nechiporenko) would have raised all
kinds of alarm bells at the CIA and FBI. Well before the assassination,
both agencies were aware of Oswald's having met with at least Yatskov
and Kostivov.

[zappaman]

87. So the CIA and FBI fucked up?

Hardly surprising.
To some, of course, this means conspiracy.

So it goes for the obsessed I suppose...

[stopbush]

88. Why can't you just answer the question simply and directly?

It would take you less time than all the cut-n-paste crap. Why should I have to read yet another CT tome of at least 500 pages to get my answer? You made the assertion, please provide an answer.

I'll ask again: did the CIA positively identify the mystery man as Oswald, have they stuck by that over the years, or did they admit they had misidentified the guy. If so, when did they admit their mistake?

[HooptieWagon]

89. In my estimation...

It was just a fuck-up. Somebody snapped a picture of the wrong guy, or misidentified the guy as Oswald. Shit happens.
Remember, it was on the day Oswald was riding the bus to Mexico that the WH announced JFK's visit to Texas. Oswald was already in Mexico City by the time the papers reported JFK's planned trip. Oswald may not have even known about it until he returned.
Also, when the trip to Texas was announced on Sept 25th, the itinerary wasn't. There was all kinds of arguing over what cities to visit and what the schedule would be. The originally scheduled fundraiser was in a different location, that the motorcade would have reached by continuing straight on Main St under the overpass. The fund-raiser was moved to the Trade Mart at the last minute, necessitating the dog-leg to Elm St under the overpass, since that was the route to the Trade Mart. This was announced just a couple days before the trip. It was on short notice that Oswald even knew the motorcade would pass by the TSBD.

[stopbush]

90. I agree it was a simple screw-up.

I'm giving Octafish the opportunity to provide something besides speculation for why the CIA misidentified the MM as Oswald. Hearing nothing but crickets at this point.

[HooptieWagon]

91. Yep. Occam's Razor.

Either somebody screwed up....or its part of the big conspiracy to deliberately misidentify Oswald, before it was even known JFK's Texas visit would include Dallas (WH almost decided to skip Dallas), before Oswald got a job at the TSBD, before the final decision to hold the fundraiser at the Trade Mart necessitating the dogleg from Main to Elm that took the motorcade in front of the TSBD. Yep, the conspirators knew all that in advance, well before the decisions were even made. Its a clairvoyant conspiracy!

Uhhh....I think a simple screwup is more likely by far.

[zappaman]

92. Don't worry...

I'm sure we will be getting some blue links shortly that have nothing to do with the questions that are being asked!

[stopbush]

93. PLUS, the conspirators knew in advance to get the USMC to score Oswald

as a Sharpshooter in 1956 so it would appear that he was a good shot, good enough to kill JFK from 88 yds in 1963.

[HooptieWagon]

94. See? The conspiracy to kill President Kennedy....

began 5 years before he became President! Crafty bastards....

[stopbush]

95. Well, they were concerned when JFK went through that spinal surgery in 1954,

was administered the Last Rites, but didn't die. The conspirators had hoped that would keep him out of the WH. When he didn't die, they got Oswald planted in the USMC in '56, taught him how to shoot a high-powered rifle using a site, and bided their time until 11/22/63.

[HooptieWagon]

96. Could the conspirators have also forged Obama's birth certificate....

so that he could become President 47 years later? It fits. Hmmm......

[zappaman]

97. That is indeed a likely scenario...

The BFEE can do anything!

[HooptieWagon]

114. Absolutely! Oswald was stationed in the Pacific...

He easily could have planted the phoney birth certificate and notices of birth in the newspapers while passing through Hawaii. There is a witness...they didn't speak up earlier, but they now remember clearly seeing Oswald planting phoney documents after I gave them 200mg of LSD and $20,000.

[zappaman]

115. Hmmmm....

It's a riddle wrapped inside an enigma!

[HooptieWagon]

120. Thats it! ENIGMA!

The final piece to the puzzle! Obama, Oswald, and ENIGMA all tied to Hawaii. Its a vast conspiracy, much bigger than we thought. Should be able to sell a million books at least.

[zappaman]

122. The real money is to be made at conferences.

You can get up and flog your theory to the acolytes and then sign your book that is for sale.
This is gold!!!

[nyquil_man]

121. It's all about time and propinquity.

If you take the name Obama and use a 1-26 number substitution code, you come up with the numbers 15-2-1-13-1.

Add those together and you get 32.

Divide 32 into 1521131 and you get 47535.34375.

Add those digits (4,7,5,3,5,3,4,3,7,5) together and you get 46.

Multiply 32 by 46 and you get 1472.

Multiply those digits (1,4,7,2) and you get 56.

Now multiply 56 by 16 (the number of assassins on the Grassy Knoll) and you get 896.

Subtract 896 from 1472 and you get 576.

Now subtract the original 32. You get 544.

544. The very address on Camp Street which Oswald used for his Fair Play for Cuba Committee.

Hats off to Jim Garrison for inspiring me to discover this important evidence.

[zappaman]

145. You gotta hand it to them!

BTW, they started plans to bring down the WTC in the 1920's.
FACT!

[zappaman]

118. No answer?

Surprising!

[Spider Jerusalem]

71. "Rearward motion"...nonsense

Conspiracy theorist David Lifton took still images of frames from the Zapruder film to Richard Feynman at CalTech in 1965, hoping to get some confirmation of the idea that the headhot must have come from in front; on close examination, what did Feynman zero in on? This: Kennedy's head moves forward by approximately 2.3 inches at the point of impact of the headshot relative to its position in the frame immediately before. For reference, the film speed of Zapruder's camera was about 18 frames per second; therefore this represents 1/18th of a second, far too fast to be seen by the naked eye. Compaison of Z-film frames 312 and 313:



Bullets do not cause the sort of movement seen in Kennedy's backward motion; this is a "decerebrate response", an involuntary neuromuscular reaction to traumatic brain injury:

Decerebrate posturing is also called decerebrate response, decerebrate rigidity, or extensor posturing. It describes the involuntary extension of the upper extremities in response to external stimuli. In decerebrate posturing, the head is arched back, the arms are extended by the sides, and the legs are extended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abnormal_posturing

[zappaman]

72. +1

Unfortunately CTers will dismiss this because it doesn't help their "theories"...

[nyquil_man]

84. Then there's the high contrast image produced from frame 313:

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2013, 04:28 PM - Edit history (1)

The matter is being propelled up and forward, which isn't quite the reaction we'd expect from a Grassy Knoll shot. And then there's the question of where such a bullet would have exited. That's where all this talk about exploding and frangible bullets comes from.

I can understand why someone looking at a low quality version of the Z film, of the sort which was circulating for many years, would draw the conclusion that the head shot came from the front or the side. But now we have much higher quality, stabilized versions.

[zappaman]

123. Interesting that CTers won't touch this one.

I wonder why?

[Logical]

124. Because it ruins their fun. CTs are exciting and fun. Most the time the truth is not. n-t

[zappaman]

125. Too true. n/t

[HooptieWagon]

133. Also, CTs give JFK's death meaning.

A martyr is much more heroic than a guy killed by a loser with a cheap gun.

[zappaman]

134. The idea that Oswald "may have been a hero"

Is particularly nauseating,

[HooptieWagon]

135. Yep. nt

[The Midway Rebel]

139. Yes, almost as sickening as claiming LBJ was a part of a conspiracy to kill JFK. nt

[zappaman]

142. Not just LBJ...

RFK, Gerald Ford, the secret service, the Dallas PD, the FBI, the CIA, Texas Oilmen...

who WASN'T part of the conspiracy!!!!???

[Logical]

136. So true. A $22 rifle changed the world. People hate that. n-t

[zappaman]

137. A $22 rifle and a malcontent.

Sickening that some would wonder if Oswald were a hero.

"As for Oswald, I don't know if he was a hero in all this or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672

[thucythucy]

130. Oh my God, that poor woman!

I remember the first time I saw the Zapruder film, and saw how close Jackie was when her husband's head was shattered by that shot. She must have had the most intense case of PTSD for the rest of her life.

There's all this discussion about how the CIA/FBI/SS screwed up, and some if it is valid, but much of it came clear only in 20 20 hindsight. For instance, assigning the job of driving the presidential limousine to the oldest SS man on the detail (because it was a prestige job and he had seniority) was certainly a mistake. A better trained, a younger agent with better reflexes would have punched the gas as soon as he heard the first shot, rather than slow down to try to see what was happening. But again, that's 20 20 hindsight. Sometimes the most obvious precautions only seem obvious after the fact.

My beef is with the Dallas PD for not protecting Oswald, so he could go on trial. The FBI wanted to sneak him out of the building in the dead of night, hours before the press and public would know what was happening, but the Dallas chief of police vetoed the plan because he wanted to please the press. If Oswald had gone on trial, a public trial, with decent representation able to cross examine witnesses and challenge the evidence, virtually none of this conspiracy theory BS would still be out there. The country would have seen that the evidence against Oswald was overwhelming, moreover the public would have seen just what a dysfunctional and pathetic sociopathic loser Oswald was.

I can't believe anyone on DU would even come close to suggesting Oswald might have been "a hero." Tell that to the Kennedy family. Tell it to the family of J.D. Tippet.

And thank you, Spider J, for your fine work debunking all this conspiracy horseshit.

One final note: the two part PBS series on Kennedy that aired last week was excellent. I highly recommend it, If you haven't already seen it.

Best wishes.

[zappaman]

131. "I can't believe anyone on DU would even come close to suggesting Oswald might have been "a hero."

That's what can happen when you go too far down the rabbit hole...

[zappaman]

146. Of course, no answer.

Did you really expect one?

[Octafish]

147. For you? Why bother?

You think the BFEE is something to laugh at.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023673662#post64

There's ample evidence Prescott Sheldon Bush and his descendants have worked to destroy democracy and advance their own fortunes through government "service" and war.

Why you make fun of that is not my business. It's yours.

[zappaman]

148. Still following me around, Octafish?

Are you my personal minder?

BTW, I didn't ask the question either.
You never answer any questions asked of you, Octafish?
Why is that, Octafish?



"As for Oswald, I don't know if he was a hero in all this or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672

[Octafish]

151. You know what they say about imitation?

Of course you do.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x296892

[zappaman]

162. Thanks for the kick, Octafish!

I think it's important to know the conference wasn't just loaded with jackals like Mark Lane feeding off JFK's bones!

[Octafish]

165. Except you weren't there. And John McAdams did not make a presentation.

As for what name he registered under, ask him.

FTI: McAdams posed as "John Nolan" in order to denigrate "conspiracy theorists" for an on-the-record interview.

Details here: http://www.ctka.net/2013/mcadams.html

The guy's credibility is almost as low as yours, zappaman.

[zappaman]

173. thanks for the kick!

talk about low credibility...

"As for Oswald, I don't know if he was a hero in all this or not."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2232672

[DanTex]

149. You know what would be nice?

If you actually tried to address the scientific evidence that the head shot came from behind. Do you think Richard Feynman was also part of the conspiracy?

[Octafish]

150. You know what would be even nicer?

If you would furnish the answer to your questions. That way, you'd find the answers that you want.

[DanTex]

152. That's the thing with conspiracy theorists. When confronted with evidence, they change the subject.

[Octafish]

153. What evidence? You challenging me to do your work?

As for me being a "conspiracy theorist," show where I posted something that was not true. I'll be happy to apologize and correct my mistake. Otherwise, don't bother setting up straw men or false narratives or anything else I did not post.

[DanTex]

156. The evidence that the head shot came from the front.

As presented here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024028402#post71
Is there any plausible rebuttal to Feyman's findings? Do those Zapruder frames not show a forward movement when the shot struck? Are there any scientists that claim visual evidence supports a shot from the front, as opposed to lay people with no understanding of either physics or the human neuromuscular system?

I'm not aware of any. Since you seem to be quite the conspiracy expert, I wonder if you have anything cogent to say about this topic. I'm guessing no. Which supports my claim from the previous post. When actual evidence is presented the CTers change the subject. Because CTs don't stand up to evidence.

[Octafish]

157. Then bring it up with zappaman. It's his post.

"Since you seem to be quite the conspiracy expert, I wonder if you have anything cogent to say about this topic."

BTW: You have no idea what I know. Reading your posts makes that clear.

[DanTex]

159. "You have no idea what I know." That's correct. That's why I'm asking.

Do you have any information about the visual evidence of the head shot that would dispute the findings of Feynman and others, that it indicates a shot from the rear?

[zappaman]

168. Since Octafish seems to want me to answer for him...

No, he has no evidence to dispute a shot from the rear and no evidence showing a shot from the front or side.
Hope that helps!

[Spider Jerusalem]

167. Where to start?

Things you've posted that just simply aren't true:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4082827 (We know this is not true because of tests not just with similar rifles but with Oswald's very own rifle, which are a matter of record.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4081179 (We know Oswald was in Mexico City, 100% positively, because his photograph...as in, the actual Lee Oswald, not the person misidentified as Oswald by the FBI in a photo of some peron leaving the Soviet embassy... is on the visa application he submitted to the Cuban embassy and because there are multiple confirmations of his presence from witnesses, handwriting, etc.)

There are probably others but those two are the most glaring recent examples.

[Octafish]

169. David Atlee Phillips said that. Italian firearms experts said the other.

Read what Mark Lane described the moment in October:

It was a (1977) meeting at USC (University of Southern California). I was on the panel and he was on the panel. I directed no question to him at all. And a student got up at the end and raised the subject, which I had not, that was: “Can you tell us about Mexico City, Mr. Phillips?" There was no cross examination. It was just the kid asking the question. And that's when Phillips said, "Oswald was never there."

JFK Conference: Mark Lane Addressed the Secret Government’s Role in the Assassination

As for firing the Mannlicher-Carcano, no one has duplicated what the Warren Commission has alleged.



That's also what the Italian experts said, which I also sourced.

FTR: Your information reads like it was written by John McAdams: not very original and awful stale.

[Spider Jerusalem]

171. Who is David Attlee Philips? Who are these Italian firearms "experts"?

It doesn't matter who said it, you cited it as "evidence". You claim to possess some degree of knowledge on the issues around the Kennedy assasassination; I presume that it would be fair to say you consider yourself a serious student of the subject. I submit that any serious student of the subject who is unaware of the known, repeated results of actual, real-world firing tests showing that the number of shots in the allotted time is very achievable, and that, in fact, Lee Harvey Oswald was in Mexico City in late September/early October 1963, is not to be taken seriously on any other issue related to the assassination, because these are things that are not only known, but have been known for DECADES.

There are videos of Carcano rifles being fired three times in the known timespan of the shots in Dealey Plaza. There is ballistics evidence, there is forensic evidence. There are repeated tests by multiple investigations and independent investigators.

[zappaman]

175. You won't get an answer.

CTers don't like to be called on their bullshit.

[stopbush]

154. Yep. Octafish is a huge practitioner of the CT whack-a-mole technique.

He never actually answers a question or engages in a real discussion.

Which why for all of his cutting and pasting of various blue links substituting for an answer/discussion, his posts are inconsequential.

[Octafish]

158. stopbush prosecutions.

Do you think people don't understand you?

[stopbush]

160. I have no idea what your post even means.

[Octafish]

164. It means that ever since I welcomed you to DU, I've yet to see you criticize the BFEE.

That's not just from memory, but through GOOGLE.

I find that...telling.

[stopbush]

166. I think the BFEE is to the 2000s what the Tri-lateral Commission was to the 1970s.

Much ado about nothing. A convenient boogeyman for the CTists...like you.

[Octafish]

170. That must be why John McAdams hosts this BFEE thread of mine on his own debunking website...

Know your BFEE: A Crime Line of Treason

Some DUers don't believe there's a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy or even a Bush Family Evil Empire.

Hey, I'm a Democrat and respect other's opinions and views.

But I do believe in the VRWC and BFEE, perhaps more accurately termed the Bush Transnational Criminal Enterprise. Here's why:

Bush Crime Line

• Vietnam
• Bay of Pigs
• Chile
• Watergate
• October Surprise
• El Salvador
• Reagan Survives Hinckley and Bush
• NAZI Ethnics for Reagan-Bush
• Voodoo Economics
• INSLAW/Promis
• Haiti
• Iraq-gate / Banca Nazionale del Lavoro arms to Saddam
• BCCI International Money Laundering for Terrorists & Intelligence Community arming Dr AQ Khan
• Savings & Loan scandal in general and Silverado in particular
• Iran-contra Guns/Drugs/Martial Law
• Gulf War I Glaspie Gives Go-Ahead
• Selection 2000 Shreds US Constitution
• Tax Cuts for UltraRich
• Criminal Justice Department
• Suicidal Environmental Policy
• ENRON Energy Policy
• 9-11 Criminal Negligence, at best; Treason, most likely
• Illegal Iraq Invasion
• Paperless Selection 2004

It’s interesting in reviewing the above list, just how much ultra-right, conservative Republican leadership has really been. More than a listing of criminality, the list demonstrates there have been many treasonous activites against “We the People” through “business opportunities” in the finance, energy, and defense industries.

There is one FAMILY name that runs through all the history, the four decades since the JFK administration. Since the very hour of President Kennedy’s death, and through the list of sinister events and unrelenting criminality noted above — a record of infamy stretching back 41 years today — appears the name George Herbert Walker Bush, a tradition continued by his son, George Walker Bush, beard of the BFEE.



DUers: Add, Discuss, Rip -- Whatever. I'd love to learn what y'all think, have to say and believe.

SOURCE http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/blog/DU_Bush.htm

Original post on DU: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2748315

PS: Note Prof. McAdams even took the time to download and host the image. That's real class, stopbush. You should study that as it will help your social skills.

[stopbush]

172. Facts are facts, Octa, social skills or not notwithstanding.

You have no facts, just fears.

[zappaman]

174. Why are facts needed?

The WC missed a rumor that was never followed up on and that's proof of a conspiracy!
Forget the facts and evidence!

[Rex]

179. I noticed that from the very first days on DU too.

Funny that right?

[zappaman]

176. Also likes to accuse people of being told to come here.

And support the BFEE by arguing against him.
Sad.

[zappaman]

180. 50 years later

and people are still being suckered into paying to hear guys flog their latest books.
At least McAdams brought some sanity to this shit show.