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LAGC

(5,330 posts)
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:29 AM Nov 2013

State Cop Shoots at Minivan Full of Kids

TAOS, N.M. (KRQE) - A simple traffic stop turned into a wild scene with a 14-year-old rushing a state cop, a high-speed chase and another officer firing at a fleeing minivan full of kids.

Now the driver and her son are facing charges while New Mexico State Police are investigating the officers involved.

It all started Oct. 28 on a state highway south of Taos. A State Police officer pulled over Oriana Ferrell's minivan for going 71 mphr in a 55 mph zone. In the minivan with her were her five kids. The Taos News reports the children range in age from 6 to 18.

On dash cam video released to KRQE News 13 Friday you can see Ferrell and the officer argue after Ferrell couldn't decide whether to pay the $126 fine or contest it in court. The officer instructs her to turn her vehicle off and stay put before walking back to his car.




http://www.krqe.com/news/crime/state-cop-shoots-at-minivan-full-of-kids

She shouldn't have drove off, but that doesn't justify the violent police response -- one of the kids in there could have easily been killed.

Cops needs to chill the fuck out instead of play Rambo all the time.

"Measured response" is the order of the day.

That is all.
133 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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State Cop Shoots at Minivan Full of Kids (Original Post) LAGC Nov 2013 OP
Equal share of dumbassery Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #1
No, not equal. Trained police unload their gun at a car full of people, some who did nothing wrong.. Logical Nov 2013 #3
Wrong - lethal force in LEO hands vs. civilian with a van full of kids hatrack Nov 2013 #15
good god man. Ed Suspicious Nov 2013 #40
Have you ever sped off from a traffic stop. Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #123
I have not. I said nothing about race. Ed Suspicious Nov 2013 #132
It was a little more than an uncooperative citizen Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #133
Um...no. n/t FourScore Nov 2013 #80
Um...try it yourself Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #124
I agree. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2013 #104
Of course it isn't, how ridiculous. Why on Earth did you bother POSTING that indefensible drivel? sibelian Nov 2013 #113
I think we can all agree on a few ideas Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #120
So, you've kind of missed out the shooting bit. sibelian Nov 2013 #121
What part of equal share does not over cover the police action? Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #122
Hardly equal... Plenty of dumbassery, but most of it lands on the police side after penultimate Nov 2013 #126
I won't argue with that Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #128
Here is my prediction. No punishment for the idiot cop who shot at the car for NO REASON! n-t Logical Nov 2013 #2
Felony eluding RosettaStoned77 Nov 2013 #22
Sadly, I suspect you are on the right tack. HereSince1628 Nov 2013 #32
Yep! n-t Logical Nov 2013 #39
Cops shooting at children. 99Forever Nov 2013 #4
+1, There should be a minimum of power that is checked, there's none on cops now uponit7771 Nov 2013 #6
There is no downside to any police behavior. Only fully documented videos of bad police..... Logical Nov 2013 #7
When law-abiding citizens start ... 99Forever Nov 2013 #13
This is attempted murder, the cop shot at the van vindictively uponit7771 Nov 2013 #5
My prediction? DiverDave Nov 2013 #8
I can't get the audio here at work, so a few questions Orrex Nov 2013 #9
The cop was accosting the mother, trying to pull her out of the vehicle. LAGC Nov 2013 #10
But he tried to pull her from the vehicle after she'd driven off, right? Orrex Nov 2013 #21
I don't know, I think the fact that she pulled right back over... LAGC Nov 2013 #27
I agree with your assessment, but I doubt that the law will be as understanding Orrex Nov 2013 #31
Well, THIS certainly was an educational trip, now WASN'T it? MrMickeysMom Nov 2013 #108
We don't know how far she drove before pulling over, due to editing jmowreader Nov 2013 #75
Got back in his car and followed her until she stopped. LiberalArkie Nov 2013 #38
That's what he did the first time Orrex Nov 2013 #42
How many chances before they can kill them? Is that what you are trying to justify? rhett o rick Nov 2013 #44
Is that what I wrote? Of course not. Orrex Nov 2013 #47
Ok I will. You said, "How many chances should they get?" Without an explanation, one might rhett o rick Nov 2013 #73
Fair enough. I will clarify. Orrex Nov 2013 #76
As many as she wants as long as she is not harming others FreakinDJ Nov 2013 #81
She was already given that chance. Twice. Orrex Nov 2013 #92
Her offense initially was speeding. If she got away, it's no big deal to society. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #91
She was caught after her initial offense. Orrex Nov 2013 #93
It isn't accosting someone to pull someone... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #115
VIDEO WITH SOUND. Mother is screaming is why son exited van: freshwest Nov 2013 #103
The kid assaulted a cop Orrex Nov 2013 #105
You said you couldn't hear sound. I provided sound and an opinion. I am not into cop bashing threads freshwest Nov 2013 #107
DWB lpbk2713 Nov 2013 #11
That's what I'm thinking, too. LAGC Nov 2013 #14
It would have had a totally different outcome .... lpbk2713 Nov 2013 #18
You know it. (n/t) LAGC Nov 2013 #20
With the advent of traffic fines as tax replacements? You're kidding, right? jmowreader Nov 2013 #74
HA! 2naSalit Nov 2013 #79
Not if he drove away like that. treestar Nov 2013 #85
Can't rule it out. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2013 #106
Driving while speeding... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #116
Damn, just about everyone involved acted like complete assholes Taitertots Nov 2013 #12
Imprison the cop who shot! Do not imprison the woman. Give her a fine. valerief Nov 2013 #17
Why are you ignoring the high speed chase with children in the car? Taitertots Nov 2013 #23
She feared for their lives from the police. What would you do? Why are you ignoring that? valerief Nov 2013 #29
What would I do? Duh, paid the ticket and left without incident Taitertots Nov 2013 #33
That's what I'm thinking about YOUR moral compass. Broken. nt valerief Nov 2013 #34
Just for the record, you are the one defending.... Taitertots Nov 2013 #36
No, YOU are defending the police CAUSING a high speed chase. valerief Nov 2013 #96
You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it any less foolish Taitertots Nov 2013 #100
What if she didn't have the money to pay the ticket at that time? Autumn Nov 2013 #43
Say, "I don't have the money"... Don't fight with police and start a high speed chase. Taitertots Nov 2013 #46
I couldn't get the volume on the clip. I got a ticket in New Mexico about 10 Autumn Nov 2013 #52
Tickets have the address of the county clerk on them. You mail your payment in. jmowreader Nov 2013 #77
You forfeit your driver license and you get them back B Calm Nov 2013 #112
Don't speed... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #117
Is that realistic? treestar Nov 2013 #83
Cop are people, not robots. They should not CREATE DANGEROUS SITUATIONS. These cops did valerief Nov 2013 #97
I don't agree with that treestar Nov 2013 #98
The COPS STARTED THE HIGH SPEED CHASE THUS ENDANGERING EVERYONE. nt valerief Nov 2013 #99
no, the lady did. Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #101
WTF is wrong with those moronic cops? Couldn't they SEE her plates? valerief Nov 2013 #16
"plates" ...exactly. They could have looked it up and gone to the drivers address. L0oniX Nov 2013 #26
Few things... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #119
One thing--THEY HAD HER DAMN PLATES. nt valerief Nov 2013 #131
Protect & Serve, MY ASS! RoccoR5955 Nov 2013 #19
Notice how the TV station didn't blur out the van's tag. lpbk2713 Nov 2013 #24
Upon their arrests, the suspects' names became a matter of public record Orrex Nov 2013 #60
Given the races involved heaven05 Nov 2013 #25
This is your hammer Turbineguy Nov 2013 #28
Where was the deadly threat to the cops? L0oniX Nov 2013 #30
Excellent question. kestrel91316 Nov 2013 #50
Is anyone defending the cop who opened fire? Orrex Nov 2013 #53
exactly, but fucking cops live for that shit gopiscrap Nov 2013 #35
With the exception of the cop firing the gun (stupid fuck), all fault lies with the driver demwing Nov 2013 #37
The mother caused the problem. rrneck Nov 2013 #41
You are guessing. She most likely drove away because she was scared. Not a reason to kill her. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #45
Of course I'm guessing. rrneck Nov 2013 #55
No excuse to shoot to kill. None. He should be prosecuted. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #61
Okay, I looked at the video again. rrneck Nov 2013 #71
If he was trying to shoot out the tire it will be the first time I ever heard of that. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #72
Yes, I agree. rrneck Nov 2013 #78
I agree; she should not have just driven away treestar Nov 2013 #82
Violence is always ugly and scary. rrneck Nov 2013 #87
My non-cop/non-lawyer opinion is that the officer who smashed the window petronius Nov 2013 #48
The police officer who fired the three shots should fired and charged Lurks Often Nov 2013 #49
^^^This nt gulliver Nov 2013 #67
That cop was one lousy shot. All the kids seem to have gotten away. Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #51
One Would Guess That The Police Officer's Mouth DallasNE Nov 2013 #54
The cops over reacted for sure Duckhunter935 Nov 2013 #58
$126 DallasNE Nov 2013 #62
Maybe I'm watching the clip in the wrong order Orrex Nov 2013 #59
At The 1st Stop The 2nd Cop Was Hassling The Son DallasNE Nov 2013 #63
You are wrong, the cop at the side of the car did NOT point a gun Lurks Often Nov 2013 #65
Your Right On The Taser DallasNE Nov 2013 #68
Standard procedure in New Mexico, here is NM Motor Vehicle law Lurks Often Nov 2013 #84
What Is Wrong With New Mexico? DallasNE Nov 2013 #88
Don't know, but it means the state trooper was following procedure Lurks Often Nov 2013 #94
I suspect that most of the editing was done by the network Orrex Nov 2013 #66
That Is How It Should Have Gone Down DallasNE Nov 2013 #70
She wouldn't have if she'd just waited for him to complete the process. treestar Nov 2013 #86
What is your motive for misstating the the facts repeatedly via, "the passengers assaulted him"? Dragonfli Nov 2013 #110
Well, what's your motive for misstating the facts? Orrex Nov 2013 #118
Police need to start arresting each other. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #56
police are terrorists!! that poor family! now 2 people are in jail and what about other kids? Sunlei Nov 2013 #57
Yay, Cops! Iggo Nov 2013 #64
the cops were in the right Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #69
BOTTOM LINE: You do NOT shoot at a car full of kids. Th1onein Nov 2013 #89
He shot WHILE SHE DROVE AWAY?!?! NickB79 Nov 2013 #90
I don't see any justification for shooting, but that mother is crazy aikoaiko Nov 2013 #95
She's pretty stupid and brought it all on by her actions. B Calm Nov 2013 #111
"Measured Response" Is Also The Law DallasNE Nov 2013 #102
New Mexico.... ReRe Nov 2013 #109
Everything was fine... Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #114
There is plenty of blame to go around here. Inkfreak Nov 2013 #125
Hard to defend the woman for acting the way she did penultimate Nov 2013 #127
Agreed. I dunno what he was thinking (nt) Inkfreak Nov 2013 #129
He probably wasn't thinking... penultimate Nov 2013 #130
 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
3. No, not equal. Trained police unload their gun at a car full of people, some who did nothing wrong..
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:35 AM
Nov 2013

is the biggest error.

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
123. Have you ever sped off from a traffic stop.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 10:34 AM
Nov 2013

Try it and see if the cops are just racist towards and mother with kids.

Even better try it out of state.

Even better try it with 5 kids in the car

I'm sure they will just bring you a soda and a snack, right?

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
132. I have not. I said nothing about race.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:22 PM
Nov 2013

I don 'to know how they are trained to control situations like this, but I hope their reaction wasn't SOP.

What it looked like to me was a cop who got angry at uncooperative civilians so he bashed the window in.

The other cop's raining down bullets upon the van was beyond the pale.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
104. I agree.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:33 AM
Nov 2013

All the cops seem to share equal amounts of dumbassery.

You don't shoot at a car full of kids.

LEOs are out of control in many ways.

No as a civie I would not run a traffic stop, so that is dumb, but it doesn't enter into the same strata of dumb as some LEOs who shoot first and ask questions later.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
113. Of course it isn't, how ridiculous. Why on Earth did you bother POSTING that indefensible drivel?
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 09:38 AM
Nov 2013

Does your life lack meaning? Do Internet arguments bring flavour to your existence?
 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
120. I think we can all agree on a few ideas
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 10:24 AM
Nov 2013

That many police are reckless, trigger happy and maybe even racists. You know like the ten percent of humanity is just assholes walking around.

given the above and forgetting that the initial cop was calm and professional in the initial traffic stop, SHE DROVE OFF WITH KIDS IN THE CAR. Compounding her suspicious activity was a van full of kids with out of state license plates. Furthermore the only reasons we all know about this is the COP had the video camera. Her ass should be arrested. That was the height of stupidity. Especially when we all know most cops over react.

So, yes equal share of dumbassery.

Furthermore, if my son ever approached a cop like that during a stop he'd be waking up jail and I will have slept soundly.



penultimate

(1,110 posts)
126. Hardly equal... Plenty of dumbassery, but most of it lands on the police side after
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 11:36 AM
Nov 2013

that officer shot at a van. Even if there were not any children in the van, I'm not sure I see how such a shooting could be considered justified.

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
128. I won't argue with that
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 11:43 AM
Nov 2013

What exactly did that cop expect to gain from shooting at a mini-van? One too many action movies for this guy.

That said, the mother put all of these events into motion, so that's why I credit her with half the blame.

 

RosettaStoned77

(53 posts)
22. Felony eluding
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:12 AM
Nov 2013

with a prison sentence for the mom who lost her cool and did a stupid thing. Foster homes for the children who were shot at. Winners all around, yay!

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
4. Cops shooting at children.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:40 AM
Nov 2013

Cops murdering family pets.

Cops murdering people while assaulting the wrong addresses.

Wonderful people and really "serving and protecting," eh?

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
7. There is no downside to any police behavior. Only fully documented videos of bad police.....
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:50 AM
Nov 2013

behavior even get looked into and them most the time there is no real punishment.

People tent to worship the police as heroes and put up with the bad behavior.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
13. When law-abiding citizens start ...
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:01 AM
Nov 2013

... fearing the police, viewing them as much or more of a threat than the "criminals," then something is dangerously out of kilter in our society. I know all cops aren't assholes like these, but in my experience, the vast majority are. The bully syndrome seems to be a prerequisite to getting a badge, a gun, and free range to use them in any way they damn well please, without consequence or responsibility. And it gets worse daily.

DiverDave

(4,886 posts)
8. My prediction?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:54 AM
Nov 2013

The driver goes to jail, the stupid ass cop gets paid vacation then reinstatement.
With no reprimand.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
9. I can't get the audio here at work, so a few questions
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:54 AM
Nov 2013

Why did the van's passenger exit the vehcile in the first place? Why did he charge the cop? What does the audio show immediately before that?

The woman escalated a tough situation. She shouldn't have driven off the first time, she shouldn't have struggled with the cop to re-enter the vehicle, and she shouldn't have driven off the second time.


The cop who shot at the van clearly appears to be in the wrong; it may be that he wasn't aware that the van had kids in it, but in that case he's firing blindly at an unknown target. It seems fairly likely (however dubious) that he'll be cleared of any wrongdoing on the grounds that the woman and the passengers initiated the confrontation.

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
10. The cop was accosting the mother, trying to pull her out of the vehicle.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:58 AM
Nov 2013

Her 14-year-old son apparently thought it was an abuse of power, so he got out to defend her.

The kids were screaming the whole time.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
21. But he tried to pull her from the vehicle after she'd driven off, right?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:10 AM
Nov 2013

I believe that driving away during a traffic stop is considered probable cause.

What should the first cop have done, after she'd already fled the scene?

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
27. I don't know, I think the fact that she pulled right back over...
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:20 AM
Nov 2013

...should have been a pretty big mitigating factor.

The woman was clearly scared and overreacted, and given her race and how few witnesses there were on that remote stretch of road, I don't particularly fault her for wanting to get to a more public area.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
31. I agree with your assessment, but I doubt that the law will be as understanding
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:29 AM
Nov 2013

It's particularly unfortunate that the passengers exited the vehicle and acted so aggressively. I'm not saying that their fear wasn't justified, and I'll say again that the cop who fired at the van was wrong to do so, but she's going to be facing a lot more than a fine for speeding.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
108. Well, THIS certainly was an educational trip, now WASN'T it?
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:05 AM
Nov 2013

Yeah, a lot of wrong doing here, including the mom, who didn't keep it under control for the kids sake.

And, what did we learn here? When driving from another state while black, one should have come prepared with a certificate from the defensive course in, "being pulled over while black".

Now, it's gonna be a mess for all… I'd love to see the due process trigger happy baton twirlers get for their role.

jmowreader

(50,557 posts)
75. We don't know how far she drove before pulling over, due to editing
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:33 PM
Nov 2013

Not knowing that stretch of road it could have been quite a ways, but the scenery is different so it was at least a mile. I'd like to see the whole tape.

The part with the window being broken out...yeah, that was a little much.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
42. That's what he did the first time
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:56 PM
Nov 2013

Then the passengers assaulted him before fleeing again.

How many chances should they get?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
44. How many chances before they can kill them? Is that what you are trying to justify?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:04 PM
Nov 2013

Police believe they have the right to kill people that do not obey them. And they do it daily. Now the conservatives will tell you that only the low lifes get killed so why worry. I hope that's not what you are saying.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
73. Ok I will. You said, "How many chances should they get?" Without an explanation, one might
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:17 PM
Nov 2013

think you mean "How many chances should they get before the police can start shooting?"
If that's not what you mean, then I am sorry.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
76. Fair enough. I will clarify.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:34 PM
Nov 2013

A suspect has fled the scene twice. How many further attempts at flight is the suspect to be allowed before police are permitted to escalate the situation? She has already endangered the children, other drivers, and the first cop, not to mention the fact that at least one passenger had assaulted the cop. What is the proper course of action that case?

I agree with the poster elsewhere in the thread who pointed out that the other cop should have parked in a way that prevented the van from driving off, so that's one possibility. What else?


 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
81. As many as she wants as long as she is not harming others
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:45 PM
Nov 2013

Orrec are you forgetting police use of deadly force is NOT authorized simply because they are "Pissed"

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
92. She was already given that chance. Twice.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 06:20 PM
Nov 2013

Last edited Sun Nov 17, 2013, 06:59 PM - Edit history (1)

When she fled the scene, she was endangering the children and anyone else on the road.

Forgive me, but your objection seems unrealistic.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
91. Her offense initially was speeding. If she got away, it's no big deal to society.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 05:59 PM
Nov 2013

But it's a HUGE deal to the cops. You dont do what they say means it's open season. They could have killed one or more of the children, but that's not important as prevailing.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
93. She was caught after her initial offense.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 06:24 PM
Nov 2013

Therefore your objection is immaterial.

In fleeing the scene after being caught, she committed additional crimes. Do you deny this? On what basis?

And again, no one is defending the cop who opened fire.

Why are you so eager to dismiss her crimes while condemning the police?

 

Decaffeinated

(556 posts)
115. It isn't accosting someone to pull someone...
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 09:49 AM
Nov 2013

... From a vehicle after they fled a traffic stop.

Save the hyperbolic bullshit for someone who hasn't seen the video.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
103. VIDEO WITH SOUND. Mother is screaming is why son exited van:
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:31 AM
Nov 2013


http://blackamericaweb.com/184852/minivan-stop-turns-to-wild-chase-for-mom-kids/

Narrator says he got out to defend his mother who is totally freaked out after the first few interactions.

The cop firing his weapon was close, the investigation will prove if he had the sense enough to shoot at the tires, and not the van. I can't see where the van was getting hit.

Breaking the windows out was not needed. They had a speeding violation, not a gang of bank robbers. Going 71 in a 55 is not the same as going wild in the city, or school zone.

Could have just followed while they called ahead for others to set up a roadblock.

Weirdness in N.M.:

Isn't this the state where the kid in school got bullied at the cops? Where the guys got the colonoscopies for traffic violations? Didn't they just outlaw abortions at 20 weeks, elect a GOP governor, and go ALEC on all their laws?

Going conservativeis going to hell, sad to say.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
105. The kid assaulted a cop
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:36 AM
Nov 2013

It's a shame that his mother freaked out after fleeing from the cop, but that doesn't excuse the kid's actions.

Breaking the window may have been justified, in fact. The driver had already resisted arrest and had twice fled the scene, and at least one of the passengers assaulted the cop.

Could have just followed while they called ahead for others to set up a roadblock.

Or the driver could have chosen not to flee the scene twice.

They had a speeding violation, not a gang of bank robbers.
She initially had a speeding violation. Then she fled the scene twice and at least one of the passengers assaulted a cop. Maybe not a gang of bank robbers, but hardly above reproach.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
107. You said you couldn't hear sound. I provided sound and an opinion. I am not into cop bashing threads
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:55 AM
Nov 2013
and had avoided these until I saw that you said you didn't know what occurred because of lack of sound.

I gave my opinion as to why these folks acted as they did. People are not trained to behave like dogs in obedience school.

I would not have done any of what she did. I do not speed. I follow all laws and the regulations to a fault when in my vehicle.

I would not have argued with the police. I would not have tried to flee the scene.

EOM.

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
14. That's what I'm thinking, too.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:02 AM
Nov 2013

Poor woman was probably scared witless, knowing how badly cops profile, and just wanted to get to a more public area where there were more witnesses in case of malfeasance on the part of the police.

Luckily, she made it to that hotel alive.

lpbk2713

(42,755 posts)
18. It would have had a totally different outcome ....
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:08 AM
Nov 2013



The whole episode would have turned out differently if the driver
had been a white male in a three piece suit driving an Escalade.


It would have been all "yes sir, no sir, sorry to bother you sir,
have a nice day sir" from the officers involved.

jmowreader

(50,557 posts)
74. With the advent of traffic fines as tax replacements? You're kidding, right?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:26 PM
Nov 2013

They probably would have tried to get him to accelerate to 26 over (where the big fines start in New Mexico) before he pulled over. Gotta make that quota.

2naSalit

(86,572 posts)
79. HA!
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:43 PM
Nov 2013

I white male in a 3 piece suit driving an Escalade would never have been stopped in the first place, speeding or not!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
85. Not if he drove away like that.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:56 PM
Nov 2013

And if she did do 71 in a 55 zone, she did deserve to be pulled over.

 

Decaffeinated

(556 posts)
116. Driving while speeding...
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 09:53 AM
Nov 2013

Followed by assault as caught on video.

Fuck the driver , she and the son both deserve charges

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
12. Damn, just about everyone involved acted like complete assholes
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:59 AM
Nov 2013

The reasonable response to this is....
Fire the officer who shot at the van.
Take the women's children and imprison her
Put the young man who attacked the police into the juvenile justice system

Give the officer who didn't hit anyone, didn't tazer them, and didn't shoot at them a medal and a promotion.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
17. Imprison the cop who shot! Do not imprison the woman. Give her a fine.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:07 AM
Nov 2013

No cop gets a damn promotion.

WTF is wrong with your thinking? Can't you see what the cops did was totally WRONG? I don't care what the speeder did. She was speeding for crying out loud. Speeding 15 miles over the limit. That's it.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
23. Why are you ignoring the high speed chase with children in the car?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:13 AM
Nov 2013

The ONLY REASON it wasn't just a traffic stop was the Women's unreasonable actions.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
29. She feared for their lives from the police. What would you do? Why are you ignoring that?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:21 AM
Nov 2013

Besides, they HAD her plates. They could get her later without risking SO MANY lives. All they had to do was NOT CHASE HER. Very simple.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
33. What would I do? Duh, paid the ticket and left without incident
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:36 AM
Nov 2013

I know this because I've gotten tickets and nothing even remotely similar to this happened.

You have something seriously wrong with your moral compass if you blame the police for following criminals instead of blaming criminals for running.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
36. Just for the record, you are the one defending....
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:05 PM
Nov 2013

Getting in a high speed chase with children in the car
And fighting with police

While I've stated that shooting at a van full of children is wrong.
Running from the police is wrong
Fighting with the police (for no good reason) is wrong

valerief

(53,235 posts)
96. No, YOU are defending the police CAUSING a high speed chase.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 08:53 PM
Nov 2013

I'm saying they should NOT have chased her. I don't know HOW MANY TIMES I have to state this.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
100. You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it any less foolish
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:21 PM
Nov 2013

The person who is running after getting caught breaking the law is the person CAUSING the chase.

But keep defending people that attack the police and get in high speed chases. Just letting everyone know that you have no realistic sense of morals.

Autumn

(45,064 posts)
52. I couldn't get the volume on the clip. I got a ticket in New Mexico about 10
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:23 PM
Nov 2013

years ago. I had to mail it in and since I wasn't going back anytime soon I couldn't contest it, and I wasn't speeding and he didn't have a radar ticket. I had my cruise control on so I know I wasn't speeding but as soon as I came over the hill, his lights went on. I think all he had time to do was to see I had out of state plates.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
112. You forfeit your driver license and you get them back
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 07:47 AM
Nov 2013

when the traffic violation fine is paid. You use the traffic ticket as your license. Been there, done that!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
83. Is that realistic?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:54 PM
Nov 2013

I would bet cops are never trained to do that. Maybe there is one on the board who can say.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
97. Cop are people, not robots. They should not CREATE DANGEROUS SITUATIONS. These cops did
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 08:54 PM
Nov 2013

just that.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
98. I don't agree with that
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 08:57 PM
Nov 2013

In this case. The lady did two things that really escalated the situation.

I wonder how they are trained to handle that.

Niceguy1

(2,467 posts)
101. no, the lady did.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:46 PM
Nov 2013

it was her choice to drive like that,her choice to run from them a second time. She made the choice is it was all on her. She chose to placed both the public and her children in danger.

nobody forced her to do anything. Maybe once she gets out of jail she will make better choices

valerief

(53,235 posts)
16. WTF is wrong with those moronic cops? Couldn't they SEE her plates?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:05 AM
Nov 2013

They could get her later. Duh. It was all on tape. They didn't need to shoot.

Driving 15 miles over the speed limit does NOT warrant getting shot at.

 

Decaffeinated

(556 posts)
119. Few things...
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 10:23 AM
Nov 2013

1) Maybe there was a reason that she fled the traffic stop - drugs; abused children; body in the trunk etc.. etc.. Do you really think that the police should just say "Oh, I guess she was a-scared of me. Maybe she had a PTA meeting to go to. I'll just mail her the ticket."

2) It's an impossible policy to just tell people that they don't have to stop when the police pull them over.

3) While the fired round may have been excessive, it was not for speeding but rather for evasion and assault on a police officer.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
19. Protect & Serve, MY ASS!
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:09 AM
Nov 2013

And they didn't release the names of the pigs who shot at the van.
Typical setting up of the Blue Wall!

lpbk2713

(42,755 posts)
24. Notice how the TV station didn't blur out the van's tag.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:15 AM
Nov 2013



The RW nutjobs will have a field day with this. They will
find out the driver's ID and make her life a living hell.


Orrex

(63,203 posts)
60. Upon their arrests, the suspects' names became a matter of public record
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 02:04 PM
Nov 2013

RW nutjobs can find them by reading the police blotter, if they're so inclined.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
25. Given the races involved
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:16 AM
Nov 2013

doesn't surprise me. This is amerikkka and black people don't resist white cops for any reason and if they do and are armed or unarmed, risk immediate death by execution. They were just black kids No biggie in shooting INTO van. No they would NOT have shot into a van full of white kids. Period. No she shouldn't have driven off, I do not understand that, but she was unarmed and so was the kid. No excuse on shooting into that van. Protect and serve my ass, stop and execute is more like it.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
30. Where was the deadly threat to the cops?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:23 AM
Nov 2013

Maybe I could understand if one of the kids was Honey Boo Boo or a couple of LA house maids.

gopiscrap

(23,757 posts)
35. exactly, but fucking cops live for that shit
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:58 AM
Nov 2013

something to brag about when they're on their donut break

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
37. With the exception of the cop firing the gun (stupid fuck), all fault lies with the driver
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:37 PM
Nov 2013

1. She was speeding (think for a moment of how you would feel about her parenting skills if she had caused an accident at that speed with her kids in the car...)

2. She fought (don't fight with cops, they get pissy, they are armed, and they can fuck up your world)

3. She fled the scene (is a comment her really required?)

In short, she turned a minor traffic issue into a life altering incident. She might go to jail, and she might lose her kids.

That being said, the cop who shot at a car full of children is a dangerous idiot, and should lose his job.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
41. The mother caused the problem.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:54 PM
Nov 2013

When she drove away she redefined the encounter. Before that it was just a traffic stop with a minivan full of kids, after she drove away she has something to hide with a van full of kids. Was it a kidnapping? Most missing children are kidnapped by estranged parents. Were there drugs in the car? The children might be endangered because of a drug dealing parent. The cop has no way to know.

The cops made a mistake by not blocking the vehicle when backup arrived. How was she able to drive away the second time? And the cop that shot at the car just plain fucked up.

And they were on an educational trip from Tennessee to New Mexico. I'm sure it will prove a learning experience for everyone involved.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
45. You are guessing. She most likely drove away because she was scared. Not a reason to kill her.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:06 PM
Nov 2013

There is no learning experience here. The cops figure they have a right to kill anyone that does not obey them. It happens every day. And conservatives love it, because only the low-lifes get killed.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
55. Of course I'm guessing.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:31 PM
Nov 2013

That's because I don't know. The cop didn't know either. Running from the police in a vehicle is felony evasion. She endangered herself, her kids, and the public by running from the police no matter the reason. Doing stupid shit like that in a thirty five hundred pound projectile is against the law and should be. The cops are there to enforce the law. She broke it. Plain and simple.

You say she was scared. What was she afraid of? Getting a ticket? It happens every day. You pay the fine and go about your business. Her response was outrageous and uncalled for.

The cops figure they have a right to kill anyone that does not obey them.

Now who's guessing? You're accusing the cops of an unwarranted sense of entitlement, yet the woman driving the car thought she could just drive away after she got pulled over.

Should the other cop have shot at the fleeing vehicle? Like I said, he fucked up. Should the responding officers have controlled the situation better? Of course. Will any of them suffer any real consequences for their mistakes? Not likely.

Don't go assuming every cop wants to kill people with impunity. They don't.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
61. No excuse to shoot to kill. None. He should be prosecuted.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 02:41 PM
Nov 2013

"She endangered herself, her kids, and the public by running from the police no matter the reason. " Agree, but that's no excuse to try to kill her. If endangering the children is wrong then the police should get prosecuted also.

You are right she shouldnt have been scared. But maybe she was afraid of bad treatment by the police. Not that that happens. She was wrong and will be punished and the police were wrong and they will be rewarded. High fives at the cop bar.

"The cops figure they have a right to kill anyone that does not obey them. " You read about it in the paper every day where someone tries to get away from the police and they get killed, usually with 100 bullet holes.

"Don't go assuming every cop wants to kill people with impunity. They don't. " And I didnt say every cop. NO cops should think that they can kill with impunity, yet you read about it all the time. Example, a couple calls the police because they cant handle their special needs son. So the police show up and promptly shoot him to death. More high fives at the cop bar. Oh yeah, near here a mentally ill man was in a tree and wouldnt come down. Bingo-bango they shot hime. A well know homeless man in Seattle was crossing the street carving a piece of wood. He was drunk and didnt respond fast enough and was shot dead in front of his friends.

It's only a very small number of police that are psychopaths but that's still too many.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
71. Okay, I looked at the video again.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:05 PM
Nov 2013

The officer was not "shooting to kill her". He fired three measured rounds and you'll notice that the back glass of the vehicle was not hit. Although I cannot see the weapon, he appears to be trying to shoot out the left rear tire. It was still a dumb move. There was no need to shoot. The best thing to do is to park a police car in front of the van so she can't drive away.

"You read about it every day" in a country with three hundred million people using the most efficient means of information distribution in the history of the human race.

Only a very small number of the population in general are psychopaths, and that's too many. It will always be too many. The human race is not perfect. Sorry.

If you would be so kind as to tell me how much I need to agree with you about how the cops got it wrong, I'd appreciate it. I'm old. I have to plan.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
72. If he was trying to shoot out the tire it will be the first time I ever heard of that.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:13 PM
Nov 2013

Police are trained to shoot to kill. They dont shoot the tires.

My point is that police are out of control when it comes to killing people. They seem to have a free hand.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
78. Yes, I agree.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:39 PM
Nov 2013

Trying to shoot out the tires is rare because it's a stupid thing to do. In terms of "shooting to kill", actually cops are trained to shoot center mass and keep shooting until the threat is stopped. If you aim at the center of the target you are most likely to hit what you shoot at. That's also why people seem to get shot with so many bullets. That is, of course, a huge distinction without a difference since one's most important internal organs are in the center of our bodies. Yay evolution. A center mass shot is also likely to be fatal.

I don't know that cops are out of control when it comes to killing people so much as just generally out of control. That general lack of control may well be resulting in more people getting shot.

All cops are hammers. It's what they do. Break the law and you're busted. It's their job to catch people breaking the law and bust them for it. It's a mindset that's hard for most liberals to get their head around because it's very authoritarian. Most people who want to be cops have a pretty wide authoritarian streak in them because that's what it takes to do that job. That's why you won't likely find many hippies hanging out in cop bars.

But I don't think it's (entirely) the cops fault. It's the laws they are paid to enforce. Those laws are increasingly written to favor a growing corporate kleptocracy. Cops are working stiffs like you and me. They have bosses that expect them to produce results like everybody else. They can't be expected to rewrite laws on the fly because of ideological differences with their superiors.

I think unjust societies result in unjust treatment by the cops, not the other way around.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
82. I agree; she should not have just driven away
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:52 PM
Nov 2013

You've got to know that's going to make cops really suspicious.

The way she wouldn't allow him to arrest her annoyed me too. Just seems to think she should not have to answer to the law. It's not the end of the world, and you can explain in court.

And isn't it endangering kids lives to do 71 mph where the speed limit is 55 mph.

They had her license number and could have found her again possibly, but cops can't just let people drive away from them.

The shooting and bashing the window looked violent but then what are they supposed to do? Surely there's a handbook which gives the plan for such things. Having kids can't be an excuse to just drive away from a traffic stop.

The chase is on her, too. Putting plenty of other people in danger, and the kids in the car.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
87. Violence is always ugly and scary.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 05:02 PM
Nov 2013

That's a good thing.

When you run from the cops that's the same as an admission of guilt - of something. So while it might look ugly for the cop to go knocking out the window of the car, for all he knew she was suicidal and planning to drive head on into a truck to kill herself and her kids. Remember Susan Smith?

petronius

(26,602 posts)
48. My non-cop/non-lawyer opinion is that the officer who smashed the window
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:14 PM
Nov 2013

needs serious sanctions - termination if he has previous use-of-force issues - and the officer who opened fire needs to go to prison...

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
49. The police officer who fired the three shots should fired and charged
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:20 PM
Nov 2013

The mother is going to jail for escalating a minor traffic stop into a felony charge(s), which could be any or all of the following: evading police, resisting arrest, endangering children and reckless driving. Her son is going to spend time in a juvenile facility for assault on a police officer, which is also felony.

71 is a 55 zone is certainly a valid reason for a traffic stop and the only officer's response that I found to be excessive force was the officer who pulled his gun and fired at the minivan. The officer who initiated the traffic stop never pulled his firearm, only the taser, a valid response when confronted by potentially at least 2 attackers, the mother and the son, who was almost the same size as the officer.

As for those who said just follow her, not only are you risking the lives of everyone in the mini-van, but everybody else on the road and the police officers in pursuit. Given the mother's response to a simple ticket and her driving recklessly later in the tape, there is no reason to believe she was NOT endangering other people on the roads.



Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
51. That cop was one lousy shot. All the kids seem to have gotten away.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:20 PM
Nov 2013

That's why we need to arm the police with full-auto weapons.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
54. One Would Guess That The Police Officer's Mouth
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:26 PM
Nov 2013

Caused things to flare up. For instance, why would the issue of the amount of the fine even come up. Why would the officer be trying to drag her out of the car over a speeding ticket. And why was the 2nd officer smashing out the windows on the passenger side of the van. Those people had every reason to fear for their life. It must be hell driving while black. And make no mistake, race was the biggest factor involved.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
58. The cops over reacted for sure
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:46 PM
Nov 2013

1. never heard the amount come up in the video

2 He was trying to get her out as she already had sped off from the first traffic stop and had failed to exit the vehicle as ordered.

3 the 14yo attacked the officer and failed to exit when he was told to.

Do not know about driving while black but I got a ticket in NM, I assume as I had out of state tags. I was polite and signed the citation and left.

Officer should never have discharged weapon and should be fired as he was in no imminent danger.

Lots of blame to go around

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
62. $126
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 02:45 PM
Nov 2013
Ferrell and the officer argue after Ferrell couldn't decide whether to pay the $126 fine or contest it in court.


She pulled away from the 1st stop when the 2nd officer was hassling her son on the passenger side of the vehicle. Things, in other words, were already getting out of control. The video is heavily edited. The son got out of the car to defend his mom from the aggressive behavior of the cop at the 2nd stop.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
59. Maybe I'm watching the clip in the wrong order
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:52 PM
Nov 2013

Did the cop drag the woman from the car before or after she fled?

Did he try to smash the window before or after the passengers assaulted him?


Just want to make sure that I'm not missing something.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
63. At The 1st Stop The 2nd Cop Was Hassling The Son
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 03:14 PM
Nov 2013

On the passenger side of the car so things were already heating up. It was likely at the 1st stop where the argument over the ticket and how to dispose of it flared up. ( Ferrell and the officer argue after Ferrell couldn't decide whether to pay the $126 fine or contest it in court.) There is no reason Farrell should have had to make that decision at that moment and that is what lead me to make a comment about the officers mouth. I have had 3 speeding tickets in my life, all of them out of State, and never was I ask to make that choice on the spot so that sounds like driving while black.

The video was heavily edited so it was difficult to know what went down and when. Nobody is saying the woman should have driven off but the situation was already volatile when that happened. And nobody is defending the son or daughter getting out of the vehicle at the 2nd stop. Also the 2nd cop pulled out his gun and pointed it at the son point blank before deciding to instead smash windows. Even though it was the 1st cop that fired the shots it was the behavior of the 2nd cop that was the more serious issue because of his aggressiveness at both stops. That, and driving while black.

People shouldn't have to fear for their life over a speeding ticket.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
65. You are wrong, the cop at the side of the car did NOT point a gun
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 03:27 PM
Nov 2013

he pointed a taser. You can tell by the bright yellow you see on the taser and for those informed about firearms, the shape of the taser.

The driver is the one that initially escalated the situation be fleeing from the first traffic stop, resisting arrest at the second stop and then fleeing AGAIN at a high rate of speed. She turned a simple speeding ticket into multiple felony charges for her and her son.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
68. Your Right On The Taser
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 03:52 PM
Nov 2013

What I saw, without studying the video carefully, was the officer raise the weapon from the right side, which is the gun side, not realizing he had already drawn his Taser. Only when you really follow it carefully and see him holster the weapon on the left side is it clear that it is his Taser.

You do not answer the question on why the driver was given an ultimatum to decide on the spot whether to pay the ticket or contest it. That has never been my experience and likely is not standard police procedure so it is an open question on who initially escalated. How much of a factor was driving while black.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
84. Standard procedure in New Mexico, here is NM Motor Vehicle law
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:55 PM
Nov 2013
http://www.mvd.newmexico.gov/Drivers/Driving-Privileges-and-the-Law/Pages/Traffic-Tickets.aspx

You have to decide whether to pay it or go to court on the spot, although payment is sent in after the fact. Looks like New Mexico is different from the states we both live in.

As for the driving while black, he would not have know her ethnicity until he had walked up to the car. I know my DL license doesn't list skin color or ethnicity and the windows on the mini-van were too darkly tinted from the rear to see the driver.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
88. What Is Wrong With New Mexico?
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 05:20 PM
Nov 2013

The driver may want to speak to counsel to understand their chances of getting the charge reduced, etc. so this makes no sense as it actually interferes with due process. Under this procedure they should need to read the driver their Miranda rights. Indeed, this is a recipe for confrontation since it is at odds with what other States do and would have to make a person of color suspect driving while black. Big brother is alive and well in New Mexico.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
94. Don't know, but it means the state trooper was following procedure
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 06:43 PM
Nov 2013

when he pulled the mini van over and gave her a ticket.

And you are speculating that some of the other 49 states and territories don't have similar laws.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
66. I suspect that most of the editing was done by the network
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 03:39 PM
Nov 2013

If the story seems slanted in some way, then we need to take that up with the network. I'll also have to listen to the audio, but I have a few thoughts:

Was she asked to make her decision about payment/court on the spot, or were those given as options? When I've been involved in traffic stops, the cop has always presnted the choices to the driver, so it wouldn't surprise me if the cop did something similar in this case.

Years ago my friend was pulled over for reckless driving (though he was completely sober). He was asked to exit the vehicle and he complied. I was in the back seat and grumbled some dumbass comment about the situation and was then directed to exit the vehicle as well, which I did. The cop in that case made some pretty scary statements about what might happen as a result of the stop, but in the end we were sent on our way with a warning. I'm confident that the episode would have ended differently if either of us had taken a swing at the cop.

My point is that I don't think it was unreasonable for the cop to address the passenger directly, if the passenger initiated the exchange.

Also the 2nd cop pulled out his gun and pointed it at the son point blank before deciding to instead smash windows.
Well, the first cop is the one who broke the window, and he did so after he'd been assaulted by the passengers. Also, when someone assaults a cop, he can certainly expect to have weapons drawn against him.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
70. That Is How It Should Have Gone Down
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:05 PM
Nov 2013

But the news report stressed the ultimatum the cop gave to decide on the spot whether to pay it or not. Signing the ticket is only an acknowledgement that you understand your options and not a guilty plea. Did this cop employ driving while black by not properly explaining the options? Oh, on further review the cop pulled his Taser rather than his gun. I misread when he pulled a weapon up with his right hand it was his gun because that was his gun side. When he holstered it on his left side it then was apparent it was his Taser. With the editing I thought it was the second officer that busted out the window rather than firing the shots. One busted the windows and the other fired the shots (I thought I heard 3 shots fired).

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
110. What is your motive for misstating the the facts repeatedly via, "the passengers assaulted him"?
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 07:11 AM
Nov 2013

Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2013, 08:18 AM - Edit history (1)

You either know that choosing the plural is an outright lie or have paid so little attention to the video and available information that you simply are oblivious to the fact that ONE 14 year old child was attempting by all appearances to protect his very frightened mother who was being assaulted at the time by an armed and violent MAN. If there is another possible conclusion it eludes me.

What would you have done watching as your Mom was being assaulted by a man that was behaving violently while armed with lethal weaponry? His reaction was in no way difficult to understand, his bravery in attempting to protect his mother from potential death by a violent and lethally armed man without a weapon of his own to assist him at the age of 14 was perhaps noteworthy as it could have caused his death. The bravery of the (one could argue foolish) decision to possibly die to protect her might have been difficult to understand if he were older and could be expected to completely understand the gravity of the danger to himself, but he is only a child. Children usually simply react to such strong emotions as would be felt by viewing the distress and fear of the child's mother being attacked, children react rather than deliberate and so such a reaction is not really very surprising.

Your choice of framing could lead one to believe you were implying a group of unknown numbers of possibly "dangerous thugs" attacked an innocent public servant perhaps to distract from the actual fact that one child reacted to his very frightened mother being attacked by an armed and violent man.

One might also think such framing (with the seemingly deliberate misuse of the plural and the generic "passengers&quot were words chosen quite deliberately. One might also note the very repetitive use of the phrase (in multiple posts) a technique known by many to be used by propagandists to push misinformation into the subconscious as a fact rather than the misinformation it is.

One very well might think rather poorly of you if one were to take such repetitive incorrect phrasing as such an implication.

Perhaps more than "one" might, perhaps multiple readers might.





So.


At least ONE is now asking, "What is your motive for misstating the the facts repeatedly via, 'the passengers assaulted him'"?

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
118. Well, what's your motive for misstating the facts?
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 10:11 AM
Nov 2013

You simply ignore the fact that the driver was stopped for speeding and then twice fled the scene by vehicle, thereby endangering her children, other drivers, and the pursuing cops.

Do you deny that the driver was speeding?
Do you deny that the driver fled the scene?
Do you deny that the driver fled the scene a second time?
Do you deny that the driver resisted the cop who attempted to restrain her after she'd already fled the scene twice?
Do you deny that the passenger exited the vehicle and aggressively charged at the cop?

Instead of accepting that the driver bears any responsibility, you paint her as the innocent victim. In your reimagining, she's not "the driver fleeing the scene" or "the suspect resisting arrest" but rather the "very frightened mother who was being assaulted at the time by an armed and violent MAN." By your reckoning, a woman is not accountable for criminal behavior if she has kids and can claim that a male cop frightened her. How very retrograde of you.

You also magically absolve the passenger--almost the same size as the cop--of any responsibility, because "children react rather than deliberate." Boys will be boys, in other words. Presumably, if I were 14 and assaulted your mother, you would simply shake your head and shrug at the spirited whimsy of youth. How convenient!

And despite all of this--the speeding, the flight from the scene, the second flight from the scene, the resisting arrest, the assault of a cop, the driver's choice to endanger the children, other drivers, and the police--the most upsetting thing to you is the fact that I used a plural rather than singular noun.


One might think very poorly of your wacky priorities if you were to focus on semantics in preference to fact.

Niceguy1

(2,467 posts)
69. the cops were in the right
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:01 PM
Nov 2013

except for the one that fired at the van. The one on the passenger side that was talking on the window before the woman pulled off wasn't talking to the kid he was talking to the driver. It's safer on that stretch of freeway where she pulled over to talk to the passenger side then it is to talk from the driver side.

the mother turned a simple traffic stop and jail time for both her and a child. And placed the public in danger over nothing. Note than nothing unusual happened before she drove off the first time.

Th1onein

(8,514 posts)
89. BOTTOM LINE: You do NOT shoot at a car full of kids.
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 05:36 PM
Nov 2013

Period.

No matter whether the driver was speeding or pulled away, for whatever reason, before the stop was finished, YOU DO NOT SHOOT AT A CAR FULL OF KIDS.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
90. He shot WHILE SHE DROVE AWAY?!?!
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 05:53 PM
Nov 2013

Here I clicked on this link thinking the cop fired at the van because the driver tried to ram him or run him down. That would have at least been legally justified as standard police protocol (though still very dangerous considering all the kids in the van).

But he opened up on her as she drove AWAY from her?

There is no justification for that. None whatsoever. He needs to lose his badge and be prosecuted.

aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
95. I don't see any justification for shooting, but that mother is crazy
Sun Nov 17, 2013, 06:45 PM
Nov 2013

Both should face jail time for endangering the kids.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
111. She's pretty stupid and brought it all on by her actions.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 07:38 AM
Nov 2013

The cops were even dumber for their violent reactions. I agree they should all be punished, but the only one facing jail time will be the woman, because this is the way justice is handed out in America.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
109. New Mexico....
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:22 AM
Nov 2013

.... the new police state. I thought Florida was bad. Wasn't it New Mexico where the guy in the WalMart parking lot put his hands on his backside when he was getting in or out of his vehicle and they ended up reaming the guy with every kind of probe imaginable looking for dope?

In this case, the woman was wrong to drive away when being cited for speeding. What the fuck was she thinking, for God's sake??? But when he pulled her over the 2nd time, he had no right to be so violent, yelling at her to get out of the vehicle. The cop was no longer civil. Then help arrives to protect the first cop from the vehicle with the woman and her five kids (or was it six?) and together they crash the back windows with all those kids in there? And then another one shoots at the vehicle as the mother gets the hell out of there?

Moral of this story: Don't ever argue with a police officer in New Mexico. EVER. If you was speeding with kids in the car, fess up and take the ticket. Then you'll get a chewing out and then on the way you will go. Assume that that cop will go violent on you, even if you just look at him a bit cross-eyed. Yes sir, no sir is the order of the day, OK? Don't EVER give a cop a reason. That's all they want. One teeny-tiny little reason.

We live in a police state now. Hell, I guess we need to talk scenarios over with the kids in case we are stopped by the police? Common sense don't make sense anymore. Dayamn!

Inkfreak

(1,695 posts)
125. There is plenty of blame to go around here.
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 10:59 AM
Nov 2013

Why she didn't just take the ticket? Arguing with a cop is gonna get you nowhere. And to drive off..stupid move.

Now that shithead cop who pulled out his weapon & fired..he should be fired. Immediately. This isn't the Wild West. How can he justify sending rounds into a van of kids. Unreal.

I see a lot of silliness in this thread too. Why isn't it ok to calmly look at this situation and place the blame around where it belongs. That woman has to act responsible along with the cop. You don't just decide to not listen to a cop and drive off. And for the police to let it get outta control like that does not inspire confidence in their ability to maintain order.

Whole lotta stupid & sad in this story.

penultimate

(1,110 posts)
127. Hard to defend the woman for acting the way she did
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 11:42 AM
Nov 2013

but as soon as that cop opened fire, he pretty much made everything she did seem rather minuscule in comparison.

penultimate

(1,110 posts)
130. He probably wasn't thinking...
Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:47 PM
Nov 2013

Not someone I'd want to continue to be allowed to be a police officer.

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