Do you support a "Right To Die" for healthy citizen based upon their age?

[Joel thakkar]

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2013, 01:33 PM - Edit history (3)

Let me clear the air with the fact that i support "right to die" for each and every person with a health problem without any age restriction or other conditions



I know that there are some countries that allow terminally ill patients to die with the help of Euthanasia (and doctors) but do you support a right to die for healthy citizens (without any major disease)

Let's suppose here are the major requirements for "Right To Die"


1) Age : 18 years or Older
2) Have no private debt or tax due (federal, state, local)
3) Do not have any dependents


Doctors can give Euthanasia (painless death) to anyone who qualifies above.


Do you support his/her right to die without pain and diseases?

I am neutral here...On one hand, i support one's right to die without having go through the diseases and pain..On the other hand, i am concerned that this may create a society where older age people (people aged above the threshold who qualify for right to die) may be treated negatively.

[BlueCaliDem]

1. No. I don't support a "soylent green" society for healthy people

no matter what their age is. That's just unconscionable to me.

I do, however, support a person's right to choose euthanasia with regard to terminal illnesses and their choice to no longer fatten the bottom lines of Big Pharma and ProfitCare while suffering incredible pain.

[bemildred]

2. If you are in reasonable good health and in control of your affairs, you don't need permission.

But yeah, I don't think anybody should be made to stay here against their will, push comes to shove.

[LittleBlue]

3. I support it regardless of age or health

As long as proper psychiatric evaluations are conducted to ensure the candidate is of sound mind.

[Joel thakkar]

4. Like your idea...but would still like an age restriction

like 18 years old or something..

[enlightenment]

5. Under your conditions?

No. I see no reason why numbers 1, 2, and 3 should enter into the discussion. Especially 2.

I support a competent* adult's right to make decisions - and I support their right to choose to die. I support doctors having a legal right to provide euthanasia to said adults.



* by competent, I mean the ability to make an informed decision with full awareness of the consequences.

[Joel thakkar]

6. Why you have a problem with 2nd point?

Someone should take a loan of $100k (given on his job salary basis) , spend it in 1 day and then choose to die the next day? Who is going to pay after his/her death? Who will make sure that he/she doesn't choose to die next day?


I have already clarified 1st point in my op. According to me, we cannot let an 11 year old have a "Right to Die". That child is still not mentally developed.

3rd point is about securing a child's future. If you have a dependent (any child 18 or younger..in some cases above 18 too), you should not be allowed to die. If they still choose to die, they need to take care of assigning a dependent to proper guardian and also financially securing his/her future if necessary. Mental effects on that dependent should also be taken care off.

[enlightenment]

10. I think you make your own position clear

with this comment: " . . . not be allowed to die".

That's not the choice of society - it is the choice of the individual and the fact that you feel the need to make these determinations of "death worthiness" is telling.

[Joel thakkar]

11. Say whatever you want

But you have not provided me with any compelling arguments on why i should change my position.

I am not like stubborn people who always stick to their point. Please tell me your arguments on why i am wrong on my stands.

If you read carefully, i am not saying that "not be allowed to die"..I am saying that...I just want to make sure that their dependent are not thrown away on the mercy of society.

[enlightenment]

36. Why should I be interested in changing your mind?

You are very strange.

Have a good day.

[intaglio]

7. Enjoy your stay

Anyone who is even neutral about this lacks any visible sign of ethics. Yes, there are people who choose to end their life without good reason and age is not a good reason any more than severe depressive illness is good reason.

Good reasons might include irreversible mental damage due to ALS, CTE, Alzheimers or CJD and permanent locked-in syndrome. The simple truth is that without good reason carers or family members can drive a frail but otherwise healthy elder into their grave.

[Joel thakkar]

12. Wow..you are harsh

If you read carefully, i have already posted in my OP that i am not stick at age and i know that illness occurs at any age. I already support a
"Right to die" if people have a health reason at any age..This thread was specifically for healthy people.

About your last sentence, i already mentioned in my OP that society (which includes friends, family etc) can view that person negatively.

[newfie11]

8. This should be a private decision only

No one else can make it

[SheilaT]

9. So you think that if these limitations

are introduced, no one will every commit suicide who doesn't fit these conditions?

People do kill themselves all the time. I heartily support people being able to die easily, painlessly, and peacefully if that's what they want. Meanwhile people still do it all the time, even if it's not as peaceful, painless, and easy as they might wish.

Sort of like, no matter how many restrictions are placed on abortion, women will still have them.

[Joel thakkar]

17. ofcourse people will commit suicide

This is not the reason for this law...This law is for perfectly healthy people to have a right to die easily, painlessly and peacefully. No one is stopping young people from committing suicide if they want.

Please do not compare this with abortion as it is a totally different matter. (Btw i am pro-choice)

[Iggo]

13. Nope.

I support a right to die for everyone.

[Joel thakkar]

14. Define "Everyone"

also an 11 year old child (with great health) ?

[Iggo]

15. Everyone.

[Joel thakkar]

20. Thank you for the clarification

I respectfully dis-agree with you as i do not support a right to die for healthy persons below age of 18. However, i do support unhealthy person a right to die without any restriction of age or of any kind.

[L0oniX]

16. I support the right for the 1% to die asap.

[Joel thakkar]

18. And how would that make life better for the majority?

Wealth will be transferred to the next generation and Business/job position will be replaced by few other people. How bottom poor people can get benefit?

I think the fundamental policies that make top 1% this much rich should be changed.

[MicaelS]

19. Why should debt be a concern?

Sounds like you're saying, "You have to be free of the slavery of debt before you can die."

[Joel thakkar]

23. Tell me what should be done in following situation

Someone takes a loan of $100k (given on his job salary basis) , spend it in 1 day on hookers, gambling etc and then choose to die the next day? Who is going to pay after his/her death? Who will make sure that he/she doesn't choose to die next day?


or

Someone takes a mortgage of 30 years from a bank. He/she also takes a mortgage life insurance which pays bank the remaining mortgage amount in case he/she dies...who will make sure that he/she doesn't choose to die the next day?

I am not saying that everyone will start doing this or the above situation will wide-spread..but there are some people who do that...

If you have any other solution for the above cases, please do tell me.

[MicaelS]

25. I am sorry, I am not going to let this be a concern of mine...

When it comes to people choosing to die. I could go into debt up to my eyeballs, not buy the insurance to cover my debt, and get killed in any number of ways, or die of a natural causes. With no dependents, the debtors will be forced to write off my debt. The same thing will happen to someone who kills them self. When I see the interest rates some people pay, (555% APR for Payday loans in Texas) my heart does not bleed even for one second for debtors.

[Joel thakkar]

28. Agree and Disagree

I agree with your part that many debtors are greedy and selfish.

I agree that in case of natural death or accidental death or even suicide, debtors will be forced to write off my debt but you know that debtors will be hell-bent to repeal this law (if we even get this right in future) due to their loss.

[wickerwoman]

52. That's a problem for the lending institution, not the government.

They accept that they are taking on a risk when they *choose* to lend out money or not. If they don't vet the person they are lending $100K to to see if they have suicidal tendencies, then they can eat the loss.

It's not a reason to restrict the right of private citizens to decide when they want to die.

Ditto with whether or not they have "dependants". How are you defining dependants? If I have a 55 year old autistic "child" or an elderly parent that needs support and I'm diagnosed with a terminal illness that leaves me in chronic unmanageable pain should I be forced to continue living on in agony just because someone else is financially dependent on me?

I think you're making it far more complicated than it needs to be. People have a right to decide the length of their own life. Full stop. Anything else is not the state's, the bank's or even their own family's decision.

[Myrina]

45. I thought the same ...

... so much for "the land of the free" and all that ... apparently indentured servitude never really went away.

"NEIN! You must STAY ALIVE until ve haff every PENNY you owe us!!"

[MicaelS]

46. I could just see it...

"No sir, you can't die today, you still owe the XYZ Corporation $500. Oh you have the cash right now? Then we'll give you the permission to die, then. We just need to run one more Credit Check. Sign here."

[Myrina]

47. ... and of course if you pay by check, you can't die until the check clears ...

n/t

[hughee99]

21. Provided a person is of sound mind,

and capable of making their own medical decisions, why shouldn't a person have the right to choose?

[polichick]

22. I agree with you - some illnesses are too hellish to continue...

We are far kinder to our pets.

[bunnies]

24. I support the right of people to make their own life decisions.

Not my body, not my business.

[xchrom]

26. people should have a right to own their bodies

and as long as they don't cause serious disruption or harm or pain to others -- then they should be able to do with their physical plant as they wish.

[MadrasT]

27. Your "conditions" are ridiculous.

If somebody wants to die, it should be so.

I would support the minimum age requirement. You can't sign a contract when you are a minor and you shouldn't be making the decision to die as a minor, either.

If ssomebody doesn't want to live any more, there should be a humane way to make that happen.

We do it for *animals* for fuck's sake. Why not for people, too?

[Joel thakkar]

30. I have given 3 conditions

1) First is of age on which we both agree upon

2) Second is of debt...Which is mainly because of following situations :

Someone takes a loan of $100k (given on his job salary basis) , spend it in 1 day on hookers, gambling etc and then choose to die the next day? Who is going to pay after his/her death? Who will make sure that he/she doesn't choose to die next day?


or

Someone takes a mortgage of 30 years from a bank. He/she also takes a mortgage life insurance which pays bank the remaining mortgage amount in case he/she dies...who will make sure that he/she doesn't choose to die the next day?

I am not saying that everyone will start doing this or the above situation will wide-spread..but there are some people who do that...

If you have any other solution for the above cases, please do tell me.


3) Third condition is about dependent...Imagine a single widow mom age 28, decided to have a peaceful death and she has a dependent 5 year old child. I am not saying that as she has a child, we should take her "right to die"..i am just asking that she should have necessary arrangements for her child (guarding or financial help etc..etc..) before she die...Now many will argue that no mother would do that for her child but you never know..I have seen mother selling off their child for money...so who can predict anything...

[bobclark86]

41. Your second point implies...

We're going to babysit and mind-read Every. Last. Person. Period.

Not only is that silly (and insanely complex), but a massive invasion of privacy.

Also, it implies suicide is something that isn't spur-of-the-moment. It usually is and is easily foiled.

Don't get me wrong, I think healthy people who commit suicide are a bunch of fucking quitters and stupid assholes, but they have that choice. I don't want to give government ANY. FUCKING. SAY. in the issue for the same reason I oppose the death penalty -- They should not have the power of life and death over citizens. It is a horrible precedent to set.

So, what's your procedure? This?
1) Visit the Department of Mortuary Vacation office (because if it wasn't the DMV, it would become too popular)
2) Fill out the appropriate forms (MV-72 to turn in your Living License, and an MV-104 Change of Address form... to the cemetery), with two forms of ID, a statement from your accountant that you don't owe anyone money and permission from the Department of Social Services for your children.
3) Find out after three hours in line you forgot your semen sample.
4) Go to the bathroom (because just whipping it out would be inappropriate) and finally make it to the counter again after another three hours.
5) Find out they don't take Visa or checks for this transaction, so you have to bum the cash from somebody else who is now looking longingly at your MV-72 and your semen sample because they've been standing in line to renew their registration for the last six hours.
6) ???
7) Profit.

Yeah. I'll stick with a $20 junker shotgun that only needs to be fired once.

[Revanchist]

43. Condition Two is easy

Insurance companies already have suicide clauses so this would be no different.

Condition three well it's already common for mothers to kill their children before they commit suicide so that would probably be the main cause of concern in your scenario. I think it would be handled by CPS in the same manner the currently handle abandoned children because if the sole provider for a child decides to kill themselves without ensuring the child's welfare well, they are abandoning them.

[Joel thakkar]

54. Thank you

You were the first one to give a good argument against my conditions. I completely agree with both of your points.

I don't want to be mean but some people here just bash me instead of putting a good argument to convince me to join their side.

Thank you!

[idwiyo]

38. +1. Totally agree. Their body, their choice. Not my business to dictate when, why, and how.

It's beyond despicable to force people who don't want to live (healthy or not) to try and kill themselves by hanging, jumping of the building, or any other inhumane way.

It's sick, torturous and there is no excuse for it.

[leftynyc]

29. If a healthy person

wants to die, let them get pills or a gun. Asking a physician (someone who has taken an oath to do no harm) to assist is murder.

[Joel thakkar]

31. but the main thing here is

painless death...a gun cannot give a painless death...if there is any other way to have a 100% easy, painless, peaceful death without the help of physician, please tell me.

[leftynyc]

32. You know

I was going to answer this with several ways but I'm becoming concerned about you. I think you need to talk to someone before you harm yourself.

[Joel thakkar]

34. what are you talking about>?

You think i am planning to die?

Please put the sarcasm tag in your post.

[leftynyc]

35. I have no idea

Your prior post (about making it as painless as possible without a physician) makes me very uncomfortable. Don't worry, I'm sure someone else here will be happy to answer but it's not going to be me.

[bobclark86]

37. Yeah, I don't think Budd Dwyer felt too much.

It's pretty much, if done right, an instant kill.

Getting pass-out drunk and jumping out of a tall building is pretty painless, too.

[bobclark86]

33. We already have a right to die...

It's called a firearm. Or over-the-counter sleeping pills. Or a bridge abutment and a fast car.

What are we going to do, put their corpse in jail? Seize their kidneys to cover their loans?

Like they'll give a fat flying fuck.

[Joel thakkar]

39. Painless?

Firearm - Hurts
Bridge/Car - Hurts
Sleeping pills - Messy, painful, low success rate, high injury/internal damage rate.

[Revanchist]

48. Unless you screw up and survive

The amount of time you'll feel pain from a gunshot wound to the head or hitting the pavement is seconds long at most; in all likelihood, you'll be dead before you realize it.

You want painless do it yourself techniques?

Carbon Monoxide

A massive opiate overdose (Morphine, Heroin, etc.)

[Myrina]

49. If you do it right, you don't notice the pain ...

uhhh ... d'oh?

[bobclark86]

57. Dead people don't feel pain n/t

[NuclearDem]

51. For a better chance of a truly painless death, it should be administered by a doctor.

Too many ways to screw up a suicide attempt, and too many innocent bystanders who could get hurt in the process.

[bobclark86]

56. I don't think my uncle

who turned his chest cavity into a dugout canoe really gave a shit when he was done...

Just saying.

[Fumesucker]

40. Healthy people who commit suicde are no longer able to pay their mandatory health insurance premiums

Which will drive costs up for everyone.

A bunch of selfish shirkers.

[pscot]

42. Yes

[AtheistCrusader]

44. Yes, electively, yes.

My life, my choice.

[NuclearDem]

50. Ultimately it should be an option that should only be decided between patient and doctor.

That said, it has to be something that someone prepares for. Loved ones and friends have to know where someone stands on euthanasia, and it should be arranged well before a situation where the call has to be made. It shouldn't be planned out when the patient is in insufferable agony.

[struggle4progress]

53. We currently have a society that provides for-profit medical services with very little safety net

In this context, just as so-called "right-to-work" laws have little connection to workers' rights, a so-called "right-to-die" has very little connection to patients' rights

[Th1onein]

55. Not unless there are special circumstances.

I think the person should go through counseling to make sure it's a decision that they really want to take.

[NCTraveler]

58. I need no requirements.

It should be between patient and doctor.