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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 02:43 PM Nov 2013

Fight the system? Hell, you're a criminal is you just *question* the system.

Cumberland County parent outraged by his arrest

CROSSVILLE (WATE) - A Cumberland County father didn't want to wait in a long line of traffic to pick his kids up from school. That led to a series of encounters last week at South Cumberland Elementary, and now the dad's facing charges.

You can see the full video on YouTube.

A 6 News viewer pointed us to YouTube video of one of the incidents.

"I'm going to call some help down here and we're going to take you up to the jail right now. I'm not putting up with this today. You're being childish and it's uncalled for," Sheriff Deputy and School Resource Officer Avery Aytes said in the YouTube video.


The video goes on to show the dad arguing with the school security officer over state law, then the dad winds up in handcuffs.

http://www.wate.com/story/24005228/cumberland-county-parent-releases-video-of-his-arrest-by-a-school-resource-officer
74 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Fight the system? Hell, you're a criminal is you just *question* the system. (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 OP
Asshole parent confronts arrogant cop. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #1
Which part involved a criminal act committed by the arrested parent? Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #2
That kind of cop will use the "disorderly conduct" catch-all at the drop of a hat. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #4
As has been pointed out elsewhere the parent was walking home with his children Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #10
If you want the school to change its policy, its best to take it up with the principal Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #18
"take it up with the principal" Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #46
Yes. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #48
Fair 'nuff Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #50
No, I agree. All cases of false arrest need to be dealt with very seriously. Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #52
I feel Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #53
You are basically justifying the cops arrest! Figures. nt Logical Nov 2013 #28
Did you reply to the wrong post? Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #32
It doesn't matter to this poster... ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #36
I politely request you read my conversation with Nye, particularly posts 46, 48 and 50 Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #51
K&R woo me with science Nov 2013 #3
The dad sounds like an asshole. HappyMe Nov 2013 #5
We certainly can't afford to arrest every asshole. avaistheone1 Nov 2013 #14
The cop doesn't have any say in school policy. HappyMe Nov 2013 #23
And you are why cops get away with this shit! nt Logical Nov 2013 #29
Oh noes!!11 HappyMe Nov 2013 #31
So the principal would of called the cops on this dad? Or dealt with it like most normal humans? n-t Logical Nov 2013 #54
You certainly do seem to point your fingers at a lot of people LanternWaste Nov 2013 #59
You again..... Logical Nov 2013 #74
As a parent who has watched dozens of self-important people cut in front of me ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #6
he was walking... he is supposed to wait in line with the cars? ProdigalJunkMail Nov 2013 #8
If you can't, we have a problem. nt woo me with science Nov 2013 #11
Not if I don't get there before a certain time. After 2:20, we have to wait in the pickup area. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #12
"After 2:20, we have to wait in the pickup area." Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #15
Thank you. woo me with science Nov 2013 #16
I didn't say that. I said he was a jerk. Get it now? ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #20
This isn't about competing sects of Jerkianity; it's about an unacceptable abuse of power. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #22
Dad=massive jerk ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #24
The cop abused his power. Calling the dad a jerk doesn't diminish the abuse of power. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #27
I didn't really realize that I'm not allowed to call the dad a jerk here... ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #34
You protested below, "That's not what I said," woo me with science Nov 2013 #39
Go back up and read what I said...or not. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #43
Was there an abuse of power here? woo me with science Nov 2013 #45
Read my responses or not. nt ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #49
Not does the cop's abuse of power minimize the father's being a jerk. LanternWaste Nov 2013 #61
Who has the power of the state behind them? X_Digger Nov 2013 #68
LOL, dad deserved it! Classic. Nt Logical Nov 2013 #30
Not what I said. Classic. n/t ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #33
"This kind of stuff happens"! woo me with science Nov 2013 #37
Read my responses. It goes in order and is rather easy to understand. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #38
Did the father deserve it or not? nt woo me with science Nov 2013 #40
Read my responses or not. nt ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #42
Did the father deserve it or not? woo me with science Nov 2013 #44
Read my responses or not. They are rather clear. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2013 #47
I thought you were clear. kcr Nov 2013 #55
I don't care who calls whom a jackass. Did the father deserve being hauled to jail? woo me with science Nov 2013 #60
My outrage on that is at 'meh' kcr Nov 2013 #64
"Meh" on citizens being hauled off to jail for no good reason. woo me with science Nov 2013 #66
For no good reason? He wasn't just picked out at random kcr Nov 2013 #67
You claim he deserved to be ARRESTED based on that video? woo me with science Nov 2013 #69
I'm not claiming he deserves to be arrested. kcr Nov 2013 #70
The father arrived to walk his children home from school. woo me with science Nov 2013 #72
Gross oversimplification of what happened kcr Nov 2013 #73
I'm pretty sure you have been rather clear, without any ambiguity at all... LanternWaste Nov 2013 #62
"This kind of stuff happens." woo me with science Nov 2013 #65
the parent remained calm, asserted his position in requesting access to his children ProdigalJunkMail Nov 2013 #7
Thank you. nt woo me with science Nov 2013 #9
+1 Go Vols Nov 2013 #26
Dang, defying the authority of a rent-a-cop undermines society! HereSince1628 Nov 2013 #13
Is the schol a jail? PowerToThePeople Nov 2013 #17
"School bell rings and kids run for the exit door". Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #19
Exactly. All the parents certainly can't all rush in at the same time and get their kids RIGHT NOW kcr Nov 2013 #56
where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio? hfojvt Nov 2013 #21
The father intended to walk home with his children Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #25
I think there's a specific difference between "denial" and "delay" LanternWaste Nov 2013 #63
I'm pretty sure they'll all work it out when they decide they want to struggle4progress Nov 2013 #35
Which says to me the arrest was all the more a frivolous abuse of power. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #41
... Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess told WATE-TV Aytes was only doing his job struggle4progress Nov 2013 #71
the parent asserted his rights by quoting the law FatBuddy Nov 2013 #57
I don't see that he did anything at the level of treestar Nov 2013 #58

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
4. That kind of cop will use the "disorderly conduct" catch-all at the drop of a hat.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 02:54 PM
Nov 2013

Pretty much all you have to do is raise your voice. Should he have been arrested? Probably not. But then he should probably just have waited his turn in line to pick up his kid like all the other parents somehow were capable of doing.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
10. As has been pointed out elsewhere the parent was walking home with his children
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:08 PM
Nov 2013

His stating it made no sense to wait behind all the cars is not an arrestable offense.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
18. If you want the school to change its policy, its best to take it up with the principal
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:28 PM
Nov 2013

and/or the school board. As opposed to going to the school and confronting the security officer. As I said, he probably didn't deserve to be arrested. But I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for him.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
46. "take it up with the principal"
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:55 PM
Nov 2013

Agreed, but since you already stated the father should not have been arrested should the charges be dropped and the officer be disciplined?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
48. Yes.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:58 PM
Nov 2013

Actually I would be happy if "disorderly conduct", as a criminal offense, was abolished. It's too easily abused by this kind of cop.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
50. Fair 'nuff
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 05:11 PM
Nov 2013

My concern is that those who state the father was a jerk seem to leave their remarks at that conclusion. That infers, whether correctly or not, that they are content with allowing the matter rest as it currently stands. As I have stated, I see this as an abuse of power and as such it should be dealt with swiftly and in no uncertain terms. The police have inverted the master-servant relationship and they need to be reminded of the proper order of affairs.

I don't want to be anti-cop but we are seeing so many egregious abuses of power lately that if some sort of discipline is not injected into the system there will be a catastrophic erosion of public support. The people should not be placed in a position of defending their liberties from the very people who should be guarding them from predators.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
52. No, I agree. All cases of false arrest need to be dealt with very seriously.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 05:14 PM
Nov 2013

The fact that the guy was a jerk does not let the cop off the hook.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
36. It doesn't matter to this poster...
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:15 PM
Nov 2013

Same thing happened to me. If you even mention that the dad was a jerk, you're backing the cops. Even when you state plainly in the post that the cop was wrong to arrest the dad.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
51. I politely request you read my conversation with Nye, particularly posts 46, 48 and 50
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 05:12 PM
Nov 2013

Thank-you in advance.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
5. The dad sounds like an asshole.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 02:58 PM
Nov 2013

He probably shouldn't have been arrested, but I think arguing with the cop was stupid.

 

avaistheone1

(14,626 posts)
14. We certainly can't afford to arrest every asshole.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:14 PM
Nov 2013

By that same token the cop would have to place himself under arrest.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
23. The cop doesn't have any say in school policy.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:48 PM
Nov 2013

There isn't much point in arguing with him. He shouldn't have been arrested, but he's barking up the wrong tree. Take it up with the school board or the principal.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
31. Oh noes!!11
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:01 PM
Nov 2013


I haven't had any encounters with cops other than a speeding ticket years ago.

Cops have no say in school policy, whether you like it or not.
 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
54. So the principal would of called the cops on this dad? Or dealt with it like most normal humans? n-t
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 05:33 PM
Nov 2013
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
59. You certainly do seem to point your fingers at a lot of people
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 06:58 PM
Nov 2013

You certainly do seem to point your fingers at a lot of people, indicting them with implications they've never made. Going from "so you justify this cop?" to "you're why cops get away with this...".

These are statements no one has made other than yourself, so it kind of begs the question: Is placing intent and words into others people's mouths a habit of yours you're simply not aware of, or is it something you do for fun? Or is there another, wholly different reason?

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
74. You again.....
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 09:19 PM
Nov 2013

I am sick of the Bull shit answer of "Well, the cop was bad but the dad was equally bad" and then they try to deny they blamed the dad for the cops behavior.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
6. As a parent who has watched dozens of self-important people cut in front of me
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:00 PM
Nov 2013

and other parents who sit and talk with little Judy or Joey through the open door when they drop them off--thereby backing up the dropoff line, I don't have much sympathy for the jerkwad of a day...

...However, arresting him was probably over the line. A stiff warning was warranted I think.

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
8. he was walking... he is supposed to wait in line with the cars?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:05 PM
Nov 2013

i guess state law will be the deciding issue. can you walk up to the school and get your kids or not?

sP

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
12. Not if I don't get there before a certain time. After 2:20, we have to wait in the pickup area.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:09 PM
Nov 2013

It's not the end of the world for this guy.

Sorry, but he's a jerk. So is the cop.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
15. "After 2:20, we have to wait in the pickup area."
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:15 PM
Nov 2013

They're his kids.

parent + kids = go home

And that's besides the point. Nothing he did merited arrest.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
20. I didn't say that. I said he was a jerk. Get it now?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:41 PM
Nov 2013

I find myself lacking sympathy for a parent who knows the rules...yet somehow thinks he is more important than the rules.

As I said, the cop was a jerk. So is the dad.

Post a thread, get an opinion.

Thank you.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
34. I didn't really realize that I'm not allowed to call the dad a jerk here...
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:03 PM
Nov 2013

He's still a jerk.

edited for: missing word (realize)

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
39. You protested below, "That's not what I said,"
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:39 PM
Nov 2013

and yet here you are purposely distorting what Nuclear Unicorn said to you.

Nuclear Unicorn did not say that you weren't allowed to call the father a jerk. Nuclear Unicorn pointed out that the important issue here is abuse of power.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
43. Go back up and read what I said...or not.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:45 PM
Nov 2013

I will continue to share my opinion on ALL sides of a story. Because I can. That makes me neither supportive of the cop, nor supportive of a dad who apparently thinks his time is more important than mine. End of story.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
45. Was there an abuse of power here?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:50 PM
Nov 2013

Did the father deserve to be hauled away to jail?

"This kind of stuff happens" suggests that you think he deserved it. Down below, however, you sneer at someone who drew that conclusion, retorting, "Not what I said."

What ARE you saying?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
61. Not does the cop's abuse of power minimize the father's being a jerk.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:01 PM
Nov 2013

Not does the cop's abuse of power minimize the father's being a jerk. That's pretty much six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Quite often, concept A does not deny concept B... that the two may each exist independently of the other. Nor does acknowledging one deny the other.

Weird stuff.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
68. Who has the power of the state behind them?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:20 PM
Nov 2013

Yeah, not so much 'six of one, half dozen of the other' in that case, is it?

kcr

(15,315 posts)
55. I thought you were clear.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 05:50 PM
Nov 2013

And I totally agree with everything you've said in this thread. But how dare you call the dad a jackass for his selfish entitled I Want My Kids Right Now To Hell With Everyone Else mentality. Who the hell do everyone else think they are? They'd want their kids RIGHT NOW, too! So, they totally understand! Anyone else who waits for their kids are just suckers.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
60. I don't care who calls whom a jackass. Did the father deserve being hauled to jail?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:00 PM
Nov 2013

The abuse of power here is the important issue, and I didn't find the posts clear on that at all.

Since you understood the posts and agree with them, was there an abuse of power here? Did the father deserve it?

kcr

(15,315 posts)
64. My outrage on that is at 'meh'
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:07 PM
Nov 2013

I'm sorry. Feel free to be outraged at my opinion at that, as I have a feeling you will be.

kcr

(15,315 posts)
67. For no good reason? He wasn't just picked out at random
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:14 PM
Nov 2013

to be arrested while he was just minding his own business. I guess because I don't think it's perfectly reasonable to go into the school and demand my kid immediately, rules and everyone else in line be damned, I guess I'm not as inclined to see it as "no good reason" No, I'm sorry, but I don't think schools and the people running them trying to do their job have to put up with that.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
69. You claim he deserved to be ARRESTED based on that video?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:29 PM
Nov 2013

Based on WHAT? I don't even think your compatriots here are claiming that. On what basis do you claim he deserved to be ARRESTED and hauled away?

kcr

(15,315 posts)
70. I'm not claiming he deserves to be arrested.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:35 PM
Nov 2013

I'm basing my lack of outrage on the fact that there's no evidence his arrest was an abuse of power. For one thing, the news story states there were a series of encounters. For another, the video has an edit cut, so we don't see the whole thing. It isn't outrageous to think there is evidence that conflict of some sort happened between this parent at the school staff. And if it escalated to a certain degree, then I'm sorry, they had every right to have him removed. They don't have to put up with it.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
72. The father arrived to walk his children home from school.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:42 PM
Nov 2013

He was denied access to his own children. He was arrested when he protested.


kcr

(15,315 posts)
73. Gross oversimplification of what happened
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:45 PM
Nov 2013

This school, like many elementary schools, don't just allow parents to show up and get their kids willy nilly, and have structured dismissal policies in place to avoid chaos. This guy didn't like the policy and decided to just show up at the office and berate the low level employees who don't set this policy and have no power to change it. They even offered him a release form to sign and he refused.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
62. I'm pretty sure you have been rather clear, without any ambiguity at all...
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:03 PM
Nov 2013

I'm pretty sure you have been rather clear, without any ambiguity at all... but then again, I'm not petulantly looking for a fight, and can read at better than a third grade level.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
65. "This kind of stuff happens."
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:08 PM
Nov 2013

That's a pretty dismissive comment when a citizen is being hauled off to jail for no good reason.

What did you think that was supposed to mean, exactly?

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
7. the parent remained calm, asserted his position in requesting access to his children
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:04 PM
Nov 2013

to escort them home on foot. the school resource officer was just being an ass and needs to lose his job.

sP

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
17. Is the schol a jail?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:27 PM
Nov 2013

The children should be able to leave when school is out. Have things really changed that much since I was a child? School bell rings and kids run for the exit door.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
19. "School bell rings and kids run for the exit door".
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:31 PM
Nov 2013

That's how it works in middle schools and high schools where I live. Not in the elementary schools though, where there are strict procedures in place for releasing the kids. I hope you can understand why 5 and 6 year old kids should not be allowed to run out of the exit doors when the school bell rings.

kcr

(15,315 posts)
56. Exactly. All the parents certainly can't all rush in at the same time and get their kids RIGHT NOW
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 06:02 PM
Nov 2013

Elementary schools have more orderly dismissal. If there are problems with how it's being done, then that issue has to be addressed. But marching right in there and demanding the school to release their child is not the way to handle it.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
21. where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio?
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:46 PM
Nov 2013

I read a story about Marilyn Monroe. She had been committed, and the hospital did not want to release her. Dimaggio is reported to have said "Bring me my wife, or I am going to tear this place apart, board by board."

And off they went.

Now, he would probably be arrested.

What a world we live in, where schools are too far away to have kids walk there, or the parents do not want the little dears to get cold, or ride a bus (and I certainly understand that, as busses are often torture chambers), or towns are not safe for children to walk in. Nor can they figure out how to carpool.

So you have that traffic nightmare.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
25. The father intended to walk home with his children
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 03:49 PM
Nov 2013

The school denied his access to his children. When he protested he was arrested.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
63. I think there's a specific difference between "denial" and "delay"
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:05 PM
Nov 2013

I think there's a specific difference between "denial" and "delay"

struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
35. I'm pretty sure they'll all work it out when they decide they want to
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:13 PM
Nov 2013

It doesn't seem it would be a very difficult problem to solve

struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
71. ... Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess told WATE-TV Aytes was only doing his job
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 07:39 PM
Nov 2013

by “enforcing the law.” However, the sheriff also said he agrees with the father on principle, saying the policy is creating safety concerns because it has created a line of cars along the highway outside of the school. Burgess said he is reviewing the policy and will make some recommendations this week as to what changes should be made to ensure student safety ...
‘School Is Out – My Kids Are to Be Given to Me’
Nov. 19, 2013 7:46pm
Jason Howerton


... Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess says he hasn't seen the video and doesn't need to, because it won't tell the whole story. He says Aytes was just doing his job. "The resource officers are there to enforce the law," Burgess said ... Burgess says parents should take any policy concerns to those in charge of the policy, not the school resource officer ...
Cumberland Co. Parent Arrested
Wednesday, November 20 2013 05:49 AM EST


... Channel 4 spoke with Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess, who says Howe had a point, but both Howe and the officer handled the situation poorly. "With all those kids there, all those parents there ... the officer, at some point, has to say that's it. We've got to stop here. We're not going to let this keep growing and his only alternative was to arrest him at that point," Burgess said. The sheriff also pointed out that Howe had previously complained about the issue to the department and school officials and that the video doesn't show what led up to the confrontation ...
Disagreement with school resource officer leads to father's arrest
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:33 AM EST
Updated: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:43 AM EST
Posted by Kara Apel


As far as I can tell from the limited info available, this school, like many other schools nowadays, has policies on releasing children after school: they won't, for example, simply allow children to walk away from the school building after school without parental permission. Various accounts indicate the school's former policy on releasing children directly to parents was producing mob scenes after school, as parents crowded into the front office to ask for their kids. To "solve" this, administrators (in their infinite wisdom) informed parents that the new school policy woould be that parents could wait in line in their cars, with placards identifying which child they were picking up, rather than coming into the building to ask to pick-up the child

So what does Howe do? He walks into the front office to ask for his kid, bringing his girlfriend to videotape. Nobody shown in the video set the policy -- not the secretary, not Aytes, certainly not Howe. Whatever was videotaped, not all the encounter is posted on youtube. The video shows Howe arguing with Aytes, calling the sheriff's office to complain about Aytes, and threatening to sue. The video also shows Aytes calling someone for instructions on what to do, stepping outside for most of the conversation, then coming back inside, while he confirms that he understands what he's been told. Meanwhile, the video shows the front office secretary trying to resolve the matter by offering Howe a form he can sign, granting permission for his children to walk home, rather than waiting for someone to pick them up. Howe refuses to sign the form: apparently he does not want to grant blanket permissionfor his children to walk home

I expect Howe could have quickly resolved the matter for the day by writing on the form in big capital letters THIS PERMISSION VALID ONLY FOR THURSDAY 14 NOVEMBER 2013, signing it, handing it back to the secretary, and then stepping outside (as Aytes probably asked him to do in the time before that shown by the posted video); if he did this every day for a few days, the administration -- which didn't like parents coming into the front office -- probably would have taken a quick interest in a policy change. And that's certainly not the only good option he had

The whole thing is frickin silly. It sounds like an idiotic policy. But Howe tries to change it by arguing with low-level people who can't change it, which is just moronic


 

FatBuddy

(376 posts)
57. the parent asserted his rights by quoting the law
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 06:35 PM
Nov 2013

the cop arrested him for that.

never assert your rights to the pigs, they will hook you up quicker than shit.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
58. I don't see that he did anything at the level of
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 06:46 PM
Nov 2013

disturbing the peace.

And if he is walking with the kids, what is the point of having him stay in the line? The line is because all of the cars can't be in the parking lot at one time. People who are walking are a relief to that.

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