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CROSSVILLE (WATE) - A Cumberland County father didn't want to wait in a long line of traffic to pick his kids up from school. That led to a series of encounters last week at South Cumberland Elementary, and now the dad's facing charges.
You can see the full video on YouTube.
A 6 News viewer pointed us to YouTube video of one of the incidents.
"I'm going to call some help down here and we're going to take you up to the jail right now. I'm not putting up with this today. You're being childish and it's uncalled for," Sheriff Deputy and School Resource Officer Avery Aytes said in the YouTube video.
The video goes on to show the dad arguing with the school security officer over state law, then the dad winds up in handcuffs.
http://www.wate.com/story/24005228/cumberland-county-parent-releases-video-of-his-arrest-by-a-school-resource-officer
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I'm not surprised it ended badly.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Pretty much all you have to do is raise your voice. Should he have been arrested? Probably not. But then he should probably just have waited his turn in line to pick up his kid like all the other parents somehow were capable of doing.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)His stating it made no sense to wait behind all the cars is not an arrestable offense.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and/or the school board. As opposed to going to the school and confronting the security officer. As I said, he probably didn't deserve to be arrested. But I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for him.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Agreed, but since you already stated the father should not have been arrested should the charges be dropped and the officer be disciplined?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Actually I would be happy if "disorderly conduct", as a criminal offense, was abolished. It's too easily abused by this kind of cop.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)My concern is that those who state the father was a jerk seem to leave their remarks at that conclusion. That infers, whether correctly or not, that they are content with allowing the matter rest as it currently stands. As I have stated, I see this as an abuse of power and as such it should be dealt with swiftly and in no uncertain terms. The police have inverted the master-servant relationship and they need to be reminded of the proper order of affairs.
I don't want to be anti-cop but we are seeing so many egregious abuses of power lately that if some sort of discipline is not injected into the system there will be a catastrophic erosion of public support. The people should not be placed in a position of defending their liberties from the very people who should be guarding them from predators.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)The fact that the guy was a jerk does not let the cop off the hook.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)we should celebrate this ecumenist moment with a Hallmark card or something.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I said that the guy should "probably not" have been arrested.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Same thing happened to me. If you even mention that the dad was a jerk, you're backing the cops. Even when you state plainly in the post that the cop was wrong to arrest the dad.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Thank-you in advance.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)He probably shouldn't have been arrested, but I think arguing with the cop was stupid.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)By that same token the cop would have to place himself under arrest.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)There isn't much point in arguing with him. He shouldn't have been arrested, but he's barking up the wrong tree. Take it up with the school board or the principal.
Logical
(22,457 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I haven't had any encounters with cops other than a speeding ticket years ago.
Cops have no say in school policy, whether you like it or not.
Logical
(22,457 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You certainly do seem to point your fingers at a lot of people, indicting them with implications they've never made. Going from "so you justify this cop?" to "you're why cops get away with this...".
These are statements no one has made other than yourself, so it kind of begs the question: Is placing intent and words into others people's mouths a habit of yours you're simply not aware of, or is it something you do for fun? Or is there another, wholly different reason?
Logical
(22,457 posts)I am sick of the Bull shit answer of "Well, the cop was bad but the dad was equally bad" and then they try to deny they blamed the dad for the cops behavior.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)and other parents who sit and talk with little Judy or Joey through the open door when they drop them off--thereby backing up the dropoff line, I don't have much sympathy for the jerkwad of a day...
...However, arresting him was probably over the line. A stiff warning was warranted I think.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)i guess state law will be the deciding issue. can you walk up to the school and get your kids or not?
sP
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)It's not the end of the world for this guy.
Sorry, but he's a jerk. So is the cop.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)They're his kids.
parent + kids = go home
And that's besides the point. Nothing he did merited arrest.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Good god.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I find myself lacking sympathy for a parent who knows the rules...yet somehow thinks he is more important than the rules.
As I said, the cop was a jerk. So is the dad.
Post a thread, get an opinion.
Thank you.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Cop=massive jerk
Add them together and this kind of stuff happens.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)He's still a jerk.
edited for: missing word (realize)
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)and yet here you are purposely distorting what Nuclear Unicorn said to you.
Nuclear Unicorn did not say that you weren't allowed to call the father a jerk. Nuclear Unicorn pointed out that the important issue here is abuse of power.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I will continue to share my opinion on ALL sides of a story. Because I can. That makes me neither supportive of the cop, nor supportive of a dad who apparently thinks his time is more important than mine. End of story.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Did the father deserve to be hauled away to jail?
"This kind of stuff happens" suggests that you think he deserved it. Down below, however, you sneer at someone who drew that conclusion, retorting, "Not what I said."
What ARE you saying?
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Not does the cop's abuse of power minimize the father's being a jerk. That's pretty much six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Quite often, concept A does not deny concept B... that the two may each exist independently of the other. Nor does acknowledging one deny the other.
Weird stuff.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Yeah, not so much 'six of one, half dozen of the other' in that case, is it?
Logical
(22,457 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Then what exactly did you mean by that?
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)It's a very straightforward question.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)And I totally agree with everything you've said in this thread. But how dare you call the dad a jackass for his selfish entitled I Want My Kids Right Now To Hell With Everyone Else mentality. Who the hell do everyone else think they are? They'd want their kids RIGHT NOW, too! So, they totally understand! Anyone else who waits for their kids are just suckers.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)The abuse of power here is the important issue, and I didn't find the posts clear on that at all.
Since you understood the posts and agree with them, was there an abuse of power here? Did the father deserve it?
kcr
(15,315 posts)I'm sorry. Feel free to be outraged at my opinion at that, as I have a feeling you will be.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Wow.
Thank you for your clarity.
kcr
(15,315 posts)to be arrested while he was just minding his own business. I guess because I don't think it's perfectly reasonable to go into the school and demand my kid immediately, rules and everyone else in line be damned, I guess I'm not as inclined to see it as "no good reason" No, I'm sorry, but I don't think schools and the people running them trying to do their job have to put up with that.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Based on WHAT? I don't even think your compatriots here are claiming that. On what basis do you claim he deserved to be ARRESTED and hauled away?
kcr
(15,315 posts)I'm basing my lack of outrage on the fact that there's no evidence his arrest was an abuse of power. For one thing, the news story states there were a series of encounters. For another, the video has an edit cut, so we don't see the whole thing. It isn't outrageous to think there is evidence that conflict of some sort happened between this parent at the school staff. And if it escalated to a certain degree, then I'm sorry, they had every right to have him removed. They don't have to put up with it.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)He was denied access to his own children. He was arrested when he protested.
kcr
(15,315 posts)This school, like many elementary schools, don't just allow parents to show up and get their kids willy nilly, and have structured dismissal policies in place to avoid chaos. This guy didn't like the policy and decided to just show up at the office and berate the low level employees who don't set this policy and have no power to change it. They even offered him a release form to sign and he refused.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'm pretty sure you have been rather clear, without any ambiguity at all... but then again, I'm not petulantly looking for a fight, and can read at better than a third grade level.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)That's a pretty dismissive comment when a citizen is being hauled off to jail for no good reason.
What did you think that was supposed to mean, exactly?
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)to escort them home on foot. the school resource officer was just being an ass and needs to lose his job.
sP
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Go Vols
(5,902 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)and threatens the constitution!!!!!
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)The children should be able to leave when school is out. Have things really changed that much since I was a child? School bell rings and kids run for the exit door.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)That's how it works in middle schools and high schools where I live. Not in the elementary schools though, where there are strict procedures in place for releasing the kids. I hope you can understand why 5 and 6 year old kids should not be allowed to run out of the exit doors when the school bell rings.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Elementary schools have more orderly dismissal. If there are problems with how it's being done, then that issue has to be addressed. But marching right in there and demanding the school to release their child is not the way to handle it.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I read a story about Marilyn Monroe. She had been committed, and the hospital did not want to release her. Dimaggio is reported to have said "Bring me my wife, or I am going to tear this place apart, board by board."
And off they went.
Now, he would probably be arrested.
What a world we live in, where schools are too far away to have kids walk there, or the parents do not want the little dears to get cold, or ride a bus (and I certainly understand that, as busses are often torture chambers), or towns are not safe for children to walk in. Nor can they figure out how to carpool.
So you have that traffic nightmare.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The school denied his access to his children. When he protested he was arrested.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think there's a specific difference between "denial" and "delay"
struggle4progress
(118,280 posts)It doesn't seem it would be a very difficult problem to solve
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)struggle4progress
(118,280 posts)by enforcing the law. However, the sheriff also said he agrees with the father on principle, saying the policy is creating safety concerns because it has created a line of cars along the highway outside of the school. Burgess said he is reviewing the policy and will make some recommendations this week as to what changes should be made to ensure student safety ...
School Is Out My Kids Are to Be Given to Me
Nov. 19, 2013 7:46pm
Jason Howerton
... Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess says he hasn't seen the video and doesn't need to, because it won't tell the whole story. He says Aytes was just doing his job. "The resource officers are there to enforce the law," Burgess said ... Burgess says parents should take any policy concerns to those in charge of the policy, not the school resource officer ...
Cumberland Co. Parent Arrested
Wednesday, November 20 2013 05:49 AM EST
... Channel 4 spoke with Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess, who says Howe had a point, but both Howe and the officer handled the situation poorly. "With all those kids there, all those parents there ... the officer, at some point, has to say that's it. We've got to stop here. We're not going to let this keep growing and his only alternative was to arrest him at that point," Burgess said. The sheriff also pointed out that Howe had previously complained about the issue to the department and school officials and that the video doesn't show what led up to the confrontation ...
Disagreement with school resource officer leads to father's arrest
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:33 AM EST
Updated: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:43 AM EST
Posted by Kara Apel
As far as I can tell from the limited info available, this school, like many other schools nowadays, has policies on releasing children after school: they won't, for example, simply allow children to walk away from the school building after school without parental permission. Various accounts indicate the school's former policy on releasing children directly to parents was producing mob scenes after school, as parents crowded into the front office to ask for their kids. To "solve" this, administrators (in their infinite wisdom) informed parents that the new school policy woould be that parents could wait in line in their cars, with placards identifying which child they were picking up, rather than coming into the building to ask to pick-up the child
So what does Howe do? He walks into the front office to ask for his kid, bringing his girlfriend to videotape. Nobody shown in the video set the policy -- not the secretary, not Aytes, certainly not Howe. Whatever was videotaped, not all the encounter is posted on youtube. The video shows Howe arguing with Aytes, calling the sheriff's office to complain about Aytes, and threatening to sue. The video also shows Aytes calling someone for instructions on what to do, stepping outside for most of the conversation, then coming back inside, while he confirms that he understands what he's been told. Meanwhile, the video shows the front office secretary trying to resolve the matter by offering Howe a form he can sign, granting permission for his children to walk home, rather than waiting for someone to pick them up. Howe refuses to sign the form: apparently he does not want to grant blanket permissionfor his children to walk home
I expect Howe could have quickly resolved the matter for the day by writing on the form in big capital letters THIS PERMISSION VALID ONLY FOR THURSDAY 14 NOVEMBER 2013, signing it, handing it back to the secretary, and then stepping outside (as Aytes probably asked him to do in the time before that shown by the posted video); if he did this every day for a few days, the administration -- which didn't like parents coming into the front office -- probably would have taken a quick interest in a policy change. And that's certainly not the only good option he had
The whole thing is frickin silly. It sounds like an idiotic policy. But Howe tries to change it by arguing with low-level people who can't change it, which is just moronic
FatBuddy
(376 posts)the cop arrested him for that.
never assert your rights to the pigs, they will hook you up quicker than shit.
treestar
(82,383 posts)disturbing the peace.
And if he is walking with the kids, what is the point of having him stay in the line? The line is because all of the cars can't be in the parking lot at one time. People who are walking are a relief to that.