Someone suggested this should have it's own thread. I agree, so here it is.

[Lochloosa]

Last edited Thu Nov 21, 2013, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)

A couple of clarifications:

1. The original author agreed to letting me start this thread.
2. I did not write it but have lived it. Someone that has never been in this situation has no idea of the pressures of being poor.


Here goes:


As a poor person I can answer that for all of us...




This is how it always is. That's what poverty MEANS. Every month, month after month, forever, you are in frantic game of whack a mole with the little bastards coming faster and faster. Next month is next month, you'll figure something out then or lose the game. And eventually you know you WILL lose, your luck will run out and it will be a catastrophe. The rubberless-tire on the car will finally blow, you fall down and shattered a tooth, your daughter breaks her glasses and now she's going to school with a giant crack across one lense and the rich kids who can afford luxuries like glasses are laughing at her, that check engine light that's been on for the last six months really did matter after all, your work just cut a few more hours...

ANYTHING is enough. There are tens of millions of us living just like this, right at the edge of oblivion. People for whom ten bucks can be the difference between eating and not.

And winter is coming.

Always there's the guilt, because always there's some motherfucker out there offering advice and questioning your choices. And you know, of course you know, that every choice isn't the best for long term prosperity. But you gave up on that idea long ago. You just want to make it through this week, and if that means walking to the store and buying a can of Colt, or smoking some shitty cigarettes, or posting online at a site like this one (where self-righteous pricks can drop backhanded bootstraps suggestions), what of it? For millions of us, that shitty cigarette is all we have.

That's what some of us have been TRYING to tell people about Obamacare. Poor people don't have any extra money. A subsidy doesn't mean shit when you're poor. Not when you're playing whack a hole at crackhead speed. But that's just one more thing, and clearly no one here cares about THAT. They're more concerned that McDonalds is offering holiday suggestions, or that Walmart has a donation bucket so some poor employees can help each other if they can. I say, that's more than many Foie Gras pinkie in the air liberals have done.

Anyway, hope this helps.

/rant

[moxybug]

1. this is where you lost this Liberal

"They're more concerned that McDonalds is offering holiday suggestions, or that Walmart has a donation bucket so some poor employees can help each other if they can. I say, that's more than many Foie Gras pinkie in the air liberals have done."

See this "Foie Gras Liberal" believes bringing public attention (and shame) to corporate malfeasance like holding food drives for poor employees can lead to better working conditions and reduce the population of poor employees.

There is more than one way to make change, and shaming the behavior observed at the McDonalds of the world is one of the better ones.

No one should be poor and you description of what it is like really chills. But trotting out the Foie Gras Liberals fantasy just ruins your rather compelling point IMHO.

PS - I agree that the ACA missed the mark. As a liberal I dismiss every heritage foundation idea as simple republican crap. Single payer is the only answer to healthcare distribution in America.

[Lochloosa]

3. Noted.

As shown at the end of the narrative, it was a "rant" and might have been a little over the top.

And welcome to DU.

And on Edit: I did not feel editing the OP would have been appropriate.

[pangaia]

5. +27

[mopinko]

20. just so you know, i am represented by the original foie gras liberal.

my alderman, joe moore, got a ban passed 48-1 in the chicago city council. a couple years later rich people (although they all claimed to be dems, this is chicago where everyone is a dem) made it an issue in his primary. although he won the election, the law was repealed.
"alderman foie gras" remains a popular taunt for his enemies.

so, "foie gras liberal" is a term that doesn't mean what the op thinks it means, at least here at ground zero of the foie gras wars.

[Egalitarian Thug]

40. Welcome to DU moxybug. If you believe that the "Foie Gras Liberal" is a myth, I'd be happy

to introduce you to as many as you would like. We can start with the multimillionaires and work our way down to the mere millionaire executives and the legions of wannabes.

Eventually everyone comes to Las Vegas, so just let me know when it's your turn and we can get started.

[Tigress DEM]

2. I agree with Ashton

Walmart can be proud of its employee's spirit of sharing, but a company that makes that much money should pay it's people a living wage.

AND a holiday f****** suggestion to sell your Christmas gifts, probably your kids' too so you can buy food because McDonald's ALSO doesn't pay a living wage isn't really a holiday suggestion, it's like Marie Antoinette saying, "Let them eat cake" with no idea of how stupid her suggestion is.

THESE are two LEADERS in their industries. IF they got their heads out of their asses and paid a living wage, others would do the same and then you'd be able to get a halfway decent job and not have to justify a beer and a smoke.

The ACA isn't perfect because the republictards have been trying to drown it and the government in the bathtub for years. BUT it's a start.

I was poor too. My sister and son still are. So that's where a lot of my money goes. My sister can't afford Obamacare right now and the website in MN isn't working right for some reason she said.

People who are pissed off at Walmart and McDonalds for treating their employees like crap aren't Foie Gras pinkie in the air liberals either. They are people who give a shit about the poor. I've never even HAD Foie Gras myself or fancy fish eggs either. I might get some nice Russian Vodka at a party tonight if I'm lucky though. : )

It's still a broken system and needs to be fixed and I agree with the whack a mole analogy. It all seems to come every month faster than any one can deal with and I'm only dancing as fast as I can too.

DU PEOPLE - Quit bitching out your allies.

Don't put people down who say they can't afford Obamacare unless you have LIVED their life.

Don't put people down who care about the big corporations pissing on their employees.

What's broken needs to be fixed - all of it - and we do that best when we aren't too busy fighting each other to actually DO something about it.

[Myrina]

8. +1 Brazillion

n/t

[antiquie]

26. Thank you for this:

"Don't put people down who say they can't afford Obamacare unless you have LIVED their life."
It really does hurt when you are called out for telling the truth.

[Old Codger]

4. I agree here

One of the main problems with the idea behind a "tax" subsidy for poorer people ends up being pointless, if you are in the low income brackets you are not going to owe any tax to be subsidized. A lot may not even have any need to file at all.. Unless this is some sort of refund you get whether you owe or not like earned income credit it leaves you with no help whatsoever. even if it is that type of subsidy you still have to pay a monthly premium that you may not be able to afford and still be able to eat.

Possibly I am missing something on this as I have not had an opportunity to look deeper into this side of it...If I have the time I will get into it and see if I am off base with that idea.

(edited to change "unearned to earned) My bad there

[zeemike]

7. I don't think you are off base with that.

This ACA may well help those with good jobs that pay well, but for the millions who are like this OP struggling just to pay the rent and put food on the table it is a net negative, because it will not bring them health care but also put another tax on them if they don't buy it.

But it seems to me that nothing is done to help them, and they will have to continue to wait until their illness is so serious threat they have to go to the emergency room...and have yet another bill collector knocking on the door.

[ancianita]

10. Not true. Not true. If they can't afford to buy they will not be taxed, but get it free and clear.

Any tax they pay will come back as a refund, as usually happens with those hovering above the poverty line.

[zeemike]

13. Yes but less of a refund because of it.

Am I wrong about that?...I really don't know because I am not up on the tax code.
But if it reduces the refund then they still have less.

[ancianita]

19. They don't have less, because catastrophic care should cost something. But preventive care -- shots,

yearly checkups, birth control, etc., -- are covered. Children to age 26 and pre-existing conditions, carrying health insurance from one employer to another are covered for any income level. One doesn't "have less" when one can't put a price tag on preventative care or on one's inevitable hospitalization health care needs -- whether it's from wrong-time-wrong-place accidents or depressions of 'the grind.' But the something-for-nothing days are over, with everyone in, nobody out. Finding an exception here or there for those just over the poverty line doesn't discredit the worth of this health care system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/04/business/under-health-care-act-millions-eligible-for-free-policies.html?_r=0

"...The analysis found that five million to six million people who are uninsured will qualify for subsidies that will be greater than the cost of the cheapest bronze or silver plan. A million more people with individual insurance could also be eligible, according to McKinsey, although estimates of the size of the market for private individual insurance vary widely. None of the people in the analysis qualify for Medicaid...

The availability of the zero-premium plans varies across the country. McKinsey found that about 40 percent of the uninsured in Missouri will be able to select a no-cost bronze plan, for example, compared with 2 percent of the uninsured in New Jersey..."

So yeah, you're technically right. But these total subsidies are no small thing.

[zeemike]

31. Well I think that some people don't understand what it means to have no disposable income.

and to have to chose whether to pay the electric bill or the heat bill or go hungry till next paycheck.

And sure it helps some, but we are not talking about them...this OP is about those that it don't help, and in fact puts yet another burden on them.
And pretending that they don't exist or don't matter makes no sense to me.
Just as counting the value of it, when you can't even get the value of it means nothing to them.

My solution is universal health care like most other developed countries, but that is off the table, because it is socialist, and the PTB say no to that, and we have to obey them.

[RC]

16. And in the mean time, don't they have to come up with the money to pay for it?

One only has two hands. Sometimes 3 moles pop up.

[ancianita]

21. True, paying can be a struggle. But average winter colds cost more out of pocket in food and over

the counter medicine. Routine sickness is covered by preventive care which can get total subsidies.

If no one wants to pay up front, then they still pay more on the out of pocket back end. I know from experience. Free preventive flu shots and checkups that detect 'conditions' are priceless.

[OregonBlue]

34. While what you say is true, some people cannot afford the food and over the counter medications.

They just suffer with their illness. They are that poor. Especially if they have kids.

[antiquie]

27. Can't afford is subjective

but the calculator is objective.
You don't get to say what else is going on in your family's life.

[ancianita]

28. You make "what else" sound ominous, and maybe not enough to be relevant. Let's not go with

hypotheticals.

"What else" in calculators includes the state you live in, your employer's offering, your income, number of children, so those are at least something.

Other calculators ask additional information. More personal information borders on privacy law issues.

[antiquie]

29. Of course, nothing else matters.

I'm wrong. I can afford 10% of my Social Security to pay for insurance that I cannot afford to use. I am in charge of my family's budget so I know I cannot pay 30% of surgeries, even if I could afford co-payments.

Some people might have 15% of their SS taken because of something their killed-himself-exhusband did in 1979.

[Old Codger]

36. OK but

If they are in a low enough bracket and ave enough dependents , this fits a lot of low income people, if there is no withholding or very little they still need top pay or is it that if that is the case no money is taken out of their pockets at all???

[ancianita]

37. According to the article I quoted, I think it's the latter. Good news. Seriously.

[tosh]

11. Not arguing, but I think you may be missing something.

The "tax subsidies" are applied directly to the monthly premium, NOT simply applied as a lump credit at filing time.

This is not to say that there won't be many struggling families/individuals who will be unable to afford the remainder of the monthly premium. I'm only chiming in because this is a question that I had. It was addressed in a newsletter from my company's CPA firm.

[ancianita]

24. I'm not missing the general drift here that one's health should be free of cost. Everything in life

costs -- if we niggle about upfront trouble in paying, we're trying to play roulette with our lives and health -- people should just own that. I went without health care for years and knew it was wrong to play that roulette. I knew I couldn't justify it, either. Everything costs. That something-for-nothing gamble has been tried and has been found cost to every one of the rest of us more money on the back end that could have been more preventively spent up front in good food and bodily care habits. Just out of pocket costs of common cold sicknesses can cost more than the preventive care offered under the ACA subsidies. Overall, I just think we shouldn't be making a single payer argument to downplay the value of the ACA.

[tosh]

25. I fully agree.

[Hoyt]

33. That's correct. Each month one only pays the difference between the premium and subsidy.

Then, when you file tax returns, you might end up paying more if you got too much of a subsidy based upon your actual income. Or, you would receive a tax credit if your income was even less than you expected.

I know that doesn't help everyone, but it does help some folks.

[Old Codger]

45. That works then

This is the information I was looking for if this is the case then great news...Thank You all for helping to enlighten me.

[Le Taz Hot]

6. I hear you.

My husband and I celebrated Monday because we ran into a windfall and actually got to put $700.00 in savings! Tuesday, I went out to my truck and couldn't get it out of gear. Hobbled it to the shop. New clutch, hydraulic system plus a used transmission: $2500.00.

I swear sometimes it's one step forward and three steps back. Just when you think you can start breathing again . . .

[ancianita]

9. Someones here do care. I was there. Paycheck to paycheck. Lurching from one debt

building problem to the next, mountains that are mole hills to others -- sickness, car trouble, licensing, winter clothes, food, bad checks...I literally begged, borrowed and stole. No sugary foods or drinks (only milk, juice.water), no paper towels, paper products, plastic wraps, no cigarettes, no drinking, no drugs, no leftovers, minimal sandwiches and soups. Not for a few months. For years. I worked at anything, noticed kindness from others, cried a lot...

One thing that gave me relief was going out in nature. Sounds stupid, but nature puts one in perspective. Going to a forest preserve, water, or somewhere where there is Big Sky horizon. Also, exercise. I jogged. Borrowed a bicycle. I know, I know. You say walking and running around are the same. But they're not. They're The Grind. Just an hour out of walking toward and around or through something beautiful can help you get through that grind. It got me out of chronic depression.

I have no other answers.

But I will tell you this: there are no fois gras pinkie liberals. They don't exist. They are a fiction of the Saudi channel's hate machine. Liberals brought tens of millions Obamacare and fought like hell to do it.

Best of luck to you.

[Laelth]

12. k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t

-Laelth

[MadrasT]

14. I hear you. I have been there.

The stress and worry never stops, not even for one minute.

It is a horrible way to live. It isn't living, it is just existing.

People who have never been there just do not get it. At all. And some of them say terribly insensitive things.

[nightscanner59]

15. Even with a good income, I've never been able to break the poverty cycle

Starting with practically nothing, homeless through much of college, I'd gotten used to sleeping on the floor in empty unfurnished apartments. Cold corporations screwed me twice about cars.
First was a Dodge I bought turned out to be a total lemon. I took that car back to the dealer 8 times to fix the steering, which they never did. Only after the warranty miles were up, they gave me some insane estimate to fix the problem. I got aftermarket parts at a small garage to fix that, but so soon after that all the electronics started screwing up, traded for an older, but more reliable vehicle.
After that, I remembered how well my old volkswagen beetles ran for me, decided I'd try a Jetta. Another lemon, then got screwed due to moving out of the state I bought it in.
Here is the kicker: I wrote letters directly to the corporate offices of both these companies telling them how shoddy these practices were and asking if they can correct their mistakes here.
I never got one word in reply.
That's how I've seen most large corporate entities: so cold and uncaring about any customer except the ones born to the silver spoon like themselves, they don't even care any more if they are putting out a shoddy product.
Yes, to me the Obamacare solution is a long shot from the best option, but single payer got shot down in this idiotic politcal environment.
But it is better than allowing the big corporations to call all the shots, and continue to totally screw americans out of their healthcare once they get sick.

[Prism]

17. My favorite aspect of being poor has to be the dental

It was about three years ago, I had just found a new job after moving to Cali and being unemployed for a year. Bit down awkwardly on something and cracked a molar. Even with insurance, I didn't have the co-pay. So I left it alone for as long as possible. Flash forward to a year ago, on the couch, in blinding pain for days. I managed to pick up extra side work on Craigslist. There I was, working 14 hour days for two weeks, trying not to scream and scream and scream.

I have excellent dental insurance. But the root canal and crown had a $225 copay. At the time the tooth cracked, I simply did. not. have. it. Between rent, food, utilities, school tuition, etc, there was never $225 just laying around somewhere.

That's why all this effusing about low premiums and high deductibles leaves me feeling like ripping faces off. "But subsidies!" But subsidies, shit. If you don't have an extra $90 a month, you simply do. not. have. it.

It's blatant "Let them eat cake!" from people who care about the poor in theory and ideology, but who cannot and will not trouble themselves to deeply understand what the OP's and many others' existences are like on the practical, on-the-ground level. I want to call this elitism, but there's nothing elite about it. It's simple profound ignorance and indifference to learning themselves any better.

My financial situation is much better these days. Went to school, advanced at work, scrapped together the first semblance of stability since my unemployment. I have what is called "disposable income" but it sure as hell isn't disposed of. There isn't a dime that leaves my checking account that I do not examine and question and double back to in my thoughts at least three times a week.

The cavalier approach to mandated, unusable insurance is a hostility against the poor, IMO. Yup. Hostility. It's redistributing from the middle and working classes, who are struggling as it is, because we sure as hell couldn't bother the 1% or the corporations to raise the least of our boats.

And this was the "liberal" solution. Gag me.

[sendero]

18. We care about it..

.. there just isn't jack shit we can DO about it. We elected a Democratic president, who despite some revisionist liars around here, ran on a VERY PROGRESSIVE agenda. We had a solid majority in the senate and a nominal control in the house. And what did we get? The ACA.

Now make no mistake, I prefer the ACA over nothing, even if not by a wide margin. The law is TOO COMPLEX, has TOO MANY PROVISIONS that could have MASSIVE BAD SIDE EFFECTS. But, again it is better than nothing.

Now even it is in jeopardy for a variety of reasons most of which fall back to president Obama not minding the store.

UNTIL LARGE NUMBERS OF AMERICANS GET OFF THEIR ASSES AND VOTE FOR SOLID PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES, of WHICH THERE ARE VANISHINGLY FEW ANYWAY, nothing is going to change. The corporations own our government and their interest is to SOAK EVERY DOLLAR THEY CAN FROM YOU IF YOU GET SICK and if you don't have any dollars, THEY COULD CARE LESS WHETHER YOU LIVE OR DIE.

I see some very small signs that Americans are not buying into the BULLSHIT Republican economic message any more (the proof is indeed in the pudding) but who knows if the pendulum will really swing back to a saner time? I'm not sure it can with the SCOTUS we have and the police we have and the corrupt from head to toe DC we have.

[QuestForSense]

23. +1

[scheming daemons]

22. honest question... wouldn't OP be eligible for medicaid?

Even without expansion in their state?

Subsidies are for those above poverty who make too much to get medicaid coverage.

But the situation described in the OP would make them eligible for medicaid which would cost them nothing.

Explain to me how Obamacare makes their situation worse? At worst, if they make too much to qualify for medicaid, their situation is the same as it was before Obamacare. It may not be better, and that sucks, but it aint worse.

[antiquie]

30. SS puts me $200 annually out of Medicaid.

I now have to budget either for insurance I can't use or for the penalty.
And that is the truth even if it is unpopular.

[scheming daemons]

35. if you have SS, dont you also have medicare?

[antiquie]

38. No. SS at 62, MC at 65.

If you have better information, I would love to have it.

[questionseverything]

42. medicaid has all kinds of co pays too

so it does not cost nothing to use it

my daughter was just here borrowing the 30 bucks she needs for co pays for 2 tests

aca is not "worse" but it is still crap

[lofty1]

32. pressures of being poor and a living wage

Everyone knows that it is not easy being poor. Who in their right mind wants to live like that? That is why people are complaining about the likes of McDonalds and Walmart.

Most jobs that people can get now are in the service industries, which is where the job growth has been in the USA for the last few years. Those jobs never were "living wage" jobs. For the most part they were typically a first job for high school kids or a part time job for someone that needed a few extra dollars. Now in many cases, they are all that's available for work and so it is only natural that people would expect a "living" wage from them if that is what they are expected "to live" on.

Look at the disparity between the pay of the executives and the workers. They can afford to cough up a few extra bucks to pay their workers decently. People would not have all the worries of being poor if there were decent paying jobs out there.

[kag]

39. I was poor once.

I remember having to decide whether to spend the last few dollars in my wallet buying gas or buying toothpaste and shampoo. (This was back when gas was still around $2 a gallon.) I was out of all three. Well, I needed gas to get to work, so my teeth and hair would just have to wait until my next paycheck.

That was about twenty-five years ago. Since then I married the man of my dreams who is not only kind, smart, funny, and cute (if I do say so), but also makes a good living and manages money well. We are not 1%ers, not by a long shot. But we are comfortable, and don't have a mountain of debt to crawl out of.

I'm grateful that my two kids have grown up in a household where money issues don't dominate our every decision. We have tried to instill in them a sensitivity for people who are less fortunate than we are, and recently my seventeen-year-old son and I had an interesting conversation.

He is anxious to move out of our house when he goes to college. He wants to manage his own meals (he's vegan), his own household (or dorm room as the case may be), and his own money. He claimed that when he is on his own he plans to make a lot of money to give to the needy. He wants to keep only enough to live sparsely on and give the rest away, claiming that this would put him in solidarity with those less fortunate than himself.

Well, forgetting for a moment the naiveté of this proposal, it makes me proud that he is, at least in philosophy, such a generous and caring individual. But having said that, I tried to explain that you can't really be in "solidarity" with someone unless you truly understand his/her plight--meaning that you can't exactly put yourself into poverty when you know that you have the power to escape it at any time. If you have the means to come out of it whenever you want, you can't truly understand the desperation and helplessness that oppress poor every day.

[Lochloosa]

41. You have done a great job raising your son kag.

The thing someone can't fatham about being poor is the decisions that have to be made.

I remember one time having to figure out when to do the $400.00 repair to my car, knowing it was going to take six months to make it up. It is such a Catch 22. Fix the car and cut back on meals or don't fix the car and prey I could make it to work.

It wears on you.

[Skittles]

43. I just bought tires for an aquaintance who could not afford them

I am concerned for his safety when it starts sleeting here soon

[tiredtoo]

44. Did not take the time to read all the replies here

so this may have already been pointed out. If the op is really that poor, he/she would very likely qualify for Medicaid and have no out of pocket insurance expenses.
As for putting people down that can't afford "Obamacare" if you haven't lived their lives. I for a while fed my wife and 5 children only with the support of food stamps. Fortunately i got a good paying UNION job and was able to provide for them without gov't assistance other than a couple stints on unemployment.

[questionseverything]

46. medicaid is not free to use

at least not in Illinois

there are co pays and out of pockets for almost everything

[tiredtoo]

47. The coverage is free

Did not intend to infer the health care would be totally free. Are you suggesting poor folk avoid Medicaid and just continue going to emergency room for their health care?

[questionseverything]

48. you said medicaid would have no out of pocket

that is not true... that was my original point

and of course people should take Medicaid if they are eligible but lots of things are not covered under Medicaid that would be covered under private insurance for example ,in Illinois only 1 tooth can be extracted with oral surgery in a years time, even if the tooth infection can lead to death

the aca kind of makes permanent a two tiered health system, good care for those that can pay, something less for the poor

[tiredtoo]

49. Read it again

I said "no out of pocket insurance expenses".
The ACA offers different options based on what the client wants to pay. Health care in this country has always been two or more tiered based on wealth. Do not forget the plan was originally proposed by the Heritage foundation and supported by the Republicans.
The best possible method would be single payer and hopefully we will soon get that.