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Left Coast2020

(2,397 posts)
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 12:41 AM Nov 2013

Switzerland does it. Why can't we?????

In Switzerland a petition from 100,000 people, or about 1.25% of the population, creates a public referendum. By this means, last March, Swiss voters created strict limits on executive pay.[1]

On November 24, the Swiss will vote on whether to take a further step -- limiting executive pay to no more than 12 times the lowest salary in the company. Such a maximum wage policy allows the CEO pay increases, but only if workers get at least a twelfth as much.

If the Swiss can do it, why can't the U.S.? Click here to help us launch this campaign!

The Swiss are also set to vote, on a date yet to be set, to create a guaranteed basic income of $2,800 (2,500 Swiss francs) per month for every adult.[2] That's about $16 per hour for a full-time worker, but it's guaranteed even for those who can't find work.

You know what country can afford such a measure even more easily, given its vast supplies of wealth? The United States of America. Tell Congress and the President now!

Here in the United States, had the minimum wage kept pace with productivity since the 1960s it would now be $21.72 an hour, or $3,722 a month.[3] The Congressional proposal of $10.10 an hour, which President Obama now says he supports, equals $1,751 a month for a fulltime job. The actual U.S. minimum wage of $7.25, which does not apply to all workers, makes $1,242 a month. But only if you can find work.

That's less than half what the Swiss are voting on, and Swiss workers also have their healthcare paid for, public transportation widely available, quality education and higher education free or affordable, 14 weeks paid parental leave, and a nearly endless list of other advantages provided by the government.

A basic income guarantee, currently practiced in Alaska and once supported by President Richard Nixon and the U.S. House of Representatives, would be far more efficient than targeted support programs, because every individual would receive the exact same check, with no stigma attached to it; and, yes -- believe it or not -- people who could find work would still work.[4]

Switzerland has a greater percentage of its population made up by immigrants than the United States does. Switzerland has four national languages. What allows Switzerland to practice democracy so much more effectively?

Two major parts of the answer are obvious. Switzerland doesn't fight wars, and it doesn't redistribute its wealth upward creating an overclass of multibillionaires.

Push the U.S. government in a better direction, following the Swiss example, by clicking here.

Please forward this email widely to like-minded friends.

-- The RootsAction.org team

More immigrants living there? Certainly there has to be some faction of government that is denying these people something? Can't be possible they get health care for a pre-existing condition? My goodness, their too socialist! I saw it cluster flaws snooze! They said so!

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Switzerland does it. Why can't we????? (Original Post) Left Coast2020 Nov 2013 OP
Explain to me why this policy doesn't increase prices? brooklynite Nov 2013 #1
If only RobertEarl Nov 2013 #3
In Switzerland, it's illegal to flush your goldfish down the toilet frazzled Nov 2013 #2
Because government by plebiscite is a fucking horrible idea Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #4
I don't live in CA... ReRe Nov 2013 #5
Because it made the state ungovernable Spider Jerusalem Nov 2013 #6
I think what makes states and governments "ungovernable"... ReRe Nov 2013 #7
Agreed. Bad idea. Laelth Nov 2013 #8
150+ years of success of direct democracy... where are the dangers? Democracyinkind Nov 2013 #10
I hear you. Laelth Nov 2013 #11
Poverty and wealth play a great role in this, no doubt. Democracyinkind Nov 2013 #12
Excellent and unique insight. Laelth Nov 2013 #13
Thank you... Democracyinkind Nov 2013 #14
Direct democracy. that is the difference... Democracyinkind Nov 2013 #9
I very much like the 12x rule for executive pay. LuvNewcastle Nov 2013 #15
Referendum & limits on executive pay maybe not what they seem frazzled Nov 2013 #16
Just caught the followup on this yesterday. Left Coast2020 Nov 2013 #17

brooklynite

(94,508 posts)
1. Explain to me why this policy doesn't increase prices?
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 12:43 AM
Nov 2013

Perhaps not absorbing the total payment, but more money in people's pockets = more demand = higher prices.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
3. If only
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 03:12 AM
Nov 2013

Prices of most commodities have far outstripped wages. IOW, prices have risen even tho people have less to spend. So your theory is not one even worth considering.

This is why the US has so much debt. Prices have risen but revenue has fallen because taxes on the masses have remained level since their wages have flattened. Even taxes on the rich have fallen. If we taxed the rich appropriately we could in a few years be out of debt. That is what they are doing in Sweden; Evening the monetary field.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
2. In Switzerland, it's illegal to flush your goldfish down the toilet
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 01:57 AM
Nov 2013

Honest, it's not just because I had four glasses of wine at dinner (plus that nice Spanish cava) that I bring this to people's attention. It's because it's actually true:

Want to get rid of your goldfish? Swiss owners who have been flushing them down the toilet - still alive - must now find other methods since strict new animal protection laws took effect today.
Instead, a fish must be first knocked out and then killed before its body can be disposed of, the law stipulates.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/new-laws-for-swiss-pets-20090407-9z8g.html#ixzz2lRfC9Myg


No, really, honestly, the Swiss make all kinds of laws, good and bad ones, and I say this not as someone who, having drunk too much wine, is offering any opinion on any particular one of these laws, including the one on CEO compensation, but merely in wonderment at the way in which the Swiss like to legislate.

Or something like that. Read more at:

http://www.newlyswissed.com/11-weird-swiss-laws/
 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
6. Because it made the state ungovernable
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:08 AM
Nov 2013

see here: http://www.economist.com/node/13649050

(two-thirds vote for budgets and tax increases, for instance, as a result of a ballot proposition).

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
7. I think what makes states and governments "ungovernable"...
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 07:56 AM
Nov 2013

... are strong-arm tactics by right wing governors and legislatures and the people who vote for them, not "proposition" voting. If 2/3 of any group vote for balanced budgets via higher taxes, a balanced budget is exactly what they will get. No? What's wrong with that?
2014!

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
8. Agreed. Bad idea.
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 08:07 AM
Nov 2013

I like what the Swiss have in mind, here, but it's too easy to the rich and powerful to game a plebiscite and create some really bad law that thwarts the legislature.

-Laelth

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
10. 150+ years of success of direct democracy... where are the dangers?
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 08:16 AM
Nov 2013

I get where the argument comes from. But Switzerland kind of proves those arguments to be naught, though. Initiatives are almost exclusively brought for forward by parties and grass roots campaigns, and not by political or economic elites. In fact, almost every initiative that I voted on during my life have pissed of one or the other of those groups or both.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
11. I hear you.
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 08:35 AM
Nov 2013

And it obviously works in a country that is pretty rich (low poverty), highly educated, and where 80% or more of the eligible voters actually vote. In a country like the U.S., with greater poverty and lower levels of education, where roughly 50% of us vote, it's much easier for the wealthy and the powerful to game the system. Not enough people pay attention to politics here. Many of us are too busy just struggling to get by. Plus, I am sure 150 years of experience with this type of government gives the Swiss a leg up on us.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

-Laelth

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
12. Poverty and wealth play a great role in this, no doubt.
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 08:52 AM
Nov 2013

Then again, when the whole project started for real in 1848 Switzerland was one of Europe's poorest states, a hell-hole full of hunger and despair with an ignorant populace.

If I'd have to guess, I'd say that the operative difference is size. A couple of months ago I sat next to our current president on the train. I've seen former presidents attend the same plays and movies as I did. In the 5 years that I have been living in the capital, I must have crossed paths with every member of the executive by chance, seeing them on my way to work, during lunch breaks, or having dinner in the same restaurant. If all politics are ultimately local, then Switzerland has a great advantage.

Just expanding on your thoughtful response. Thanks for your reply...

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
13. Excellent and unique insight.
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 08:53 AM
Nov 2013

Your post is an example of what makes DU a good place to learn. Thanks.



-Laelth

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
9. Direct democracy. that is the difference...
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 08:11 AM
Nov 2013

It's not really a democracy if the people's participation consists of nothing more than selecting candidates. Direct democracy usually produces an informed and mature electorate, even though elitists will always claim that "government by plebiscite is evil".. See this very thread... It might be true, but it is real democracy, and not the sham that we practice in the US. The other big factor is that the executive consists of 7 people, not one. So there's no ultimate prize in politics and therefore almost no professional politicians (which always turn out elitist and anti-democratic, as we Americans know.

That said, Switzerland my be a paradise, but there are still lots of things that need to be changed, and not every aspect of our democracy has brought forward progressive solutions.

LuvNewcastle

(16,844 posts)
15. I very much like the 12x rule for executive pay.
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 09:23 AM
Nov 2013

It kills two birds with one stone. America could really benefit from such a law, even if we make it a 20x rule.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
16. Referendum & limits on executive pay maybe not what they seem
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:55 PM
Nov 2013

From an op-ed in today's NYT, which argues for why the Swiss scorn the superrich, but seems to justify the opposite opinion:

It’s not easy for ballot initiatives like this to succeed in Switzerland: Of the 110 that have made it to a vote in the last 32 years, only 20 have passed. Many observers agreed that Daniel Vasella, the C.E.O. and chairman of the pharmaceutical giant Novartis, played a decisive role in the plebiscite’s success.

Shortly before the vote, it emerged that Mr. Vasella was demanding a $78 million severance package in return for a promise not to work for a competitor for six years. More disturbing than the sum itself was the way Novartis tried to suppress the story, and Mr. Vasella’s own reaction.

>


less than a year later, we have another vote on executive salaries, the 1:12 initiative. It would permit companies to award their best-paid worker no more than 12 times what the worst paid took home. The referendum takes place on Sunday. This time, the initiative looks destined to fail: The latest opinion poll put the yes vote at 36 percent, with 54 percent opposed, and 10 percent undecided.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/opinion/why-the-swiss-scorn-the-superrich.html?hp&rref=opinion

Maybe the Swiss aren't that opposed to mega-wealth after all? I guess tomorrow will tell.
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