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dynasaw

(998 posts)
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 02:39 PM Nov 2013

How Republicans Fit The Classic Profile Of An Abuser

Like abusers, Republicans always make things someone else’s fault.
The behavior of Republicans – most recently around their government shutdown, and as they dig in their heels and rationalize – by making it someone else’s fault – driving the country into default, it reminds me vividly of the abusive personality that I engaged with daily, for years, until my divorce. No compromise was ever allowed, it was his way or his other way. He never talked about the many ways in which he was wrong, it was “look what you made me do.” In his mind, the only one whose behavior needed changing was mine. Any abusive behavior of his was justified because, in his warped thinking, I provoked him. He used bullying, fear tactics, threats and intimidation to get his way. In the end, although never abusive to them directly, he used my kids as pawns in his abusive game. He refused to share responsibility in any part of our relationship breakdown. I owned it, lock, stock and barrel.

Like abusers, Republicans do not negotiate in good faith.


If you break it down, how different is the behavior of a classic abuser than the behavior we are now seeing within the Republican Party, most notably, and startlingly, the tea baggers, beginning with the mastermind of the Republican government shutdown, Ted Cruz, and moving on through the ranks of Mike Lee and Michele Bachmann and Paul Ryan and Louie Gohmert, and about 30 others? As a domestic violence survivor, I know that the President and Harry Reid are utterly correct to hold the line at negotiation. Abusers – such as the House tea baggers, along with John Boehner, their puppet – do not negotiate in good faith. Regardless of what “deals” they offer up today, they will renege when it comes time to uphold their end of the bargain. When Republicans say they want a short-term “deal” to re-open the government and avoid a default, I know what that means: Just as abusive personalities are generally incapable of rehabilitation, neither are Republicans. Rehabilitation implies that there is a point of normalcy in the past to which one can return. I have yet to see that point for Republicans; they’re beyond redemption. A year ago, Paul Krugman aptly pointed out that the debt ceiling debacle demonstrates that “raw extortion works and carries no political cost,” and that “irresponsible brinksmanship” is now “a proven effective negotiating tactic.” Mr. Krugman, meet your classic abuser.

Like abusers, Republicans must win at all costs.
An abusive personality really doesn’t care who is caught in the crossfire. His desire for control, his low self-esteem and irrational, desperate need to be the winner at any cost trumps any scrap of humanity. Despite the fact that Republicans raised the debt ceiling more than 25 times under Republican presidents (and five times, without batting an eye, under Bush), their classically abusive personalities have risen to the fore under this President. At any cost, regardless of any harm to others, they will win. So what if the U.S. defaults? According to some Republicans, for the President to allow a default would be an “impeachable offense;” on the other hand, if the President were to invoke the 14th Amendment and direct the Treasury to pay its bills regardless of the House’s inactivity, that, too, in the minds of Republicans, would no doubt rise to the level of an impeachable offense. As in all abusive relationships, it’s a Catch 22. Listening to the screaming rage of Republicans, it’s clear that no cost is too great to make President Obama look bad. If the measures Republicans implement increase the chance that this President’s success story will be on pause, they’ll make a pact with any devil. So what if their newly-discovered “fiscal conservatism” trashes a still fragile economy, tanking the markets, and driving unemployment numbers up? If that’s what’s required to be the victors in the game of chicken they’ve been playing with our lives, that’s what they’ll do. Their lack of humanity, and lack of a moral center, is truly breathtaking.

Like abusers, Republicans will invalidate you.
I remember, during the days when I was on the receiving end of such bullying tactics, how my heart would pound and adrenaline would flow, how my stomach would knot up. I’ve felt that way any number of times during these past terrible weeks as progressives have fought for a toehold in the battle of integrity against a foe who has none. My gut has kept score. A classic abusive personality generally uses sexually derogatory slurs against his victim, but in this case, Republicans continue to press the case that this President is not legitimate. Their use of coded and un-coded racial slurs against our President are not dissimilar to the derogatory terms like “slut” and “whore” that classic abusers use to refer to their women; it’s how they engage. And it is, sadly, how the Republicans have engaged politically ever since President Obama was elected, and continue to engage.

Like abusers, Republicans will grind you down.
When you deal with an abusive personality, day after day, it grinds you down. Exhaustion takes over, mental fatigue weakens your facilities, hopelessness, fear and despair reduce your ability to fight. Sometimes, giving in to ridiculous demands is a relief. It stops the emotional, mental, and physical pain, even if only briefly. You think of leaving, but resist because on some level you know that your very life could be in danger if you do. Of course such fear is not misplaced; most women are killed at the point they are attempting to leave their abuser. And so, as goes domestic violence, so goes the Republican tactics. For every sane, rational plan put forward by Democrats the Republicans up the insane, irrational ante by demanding such things as the repeal or defunding of Obamacare, a “conscience clause” for the dispensing of birth control, the repeal of taxes that fund Obamacare, and even more stringent and austere financial cuts to an already stripped-to-the-bone federal budget.

Republicans – astoundingly, even Republicans who were exultant about the power they were able to wield by shutting down the government in the first place – now refuse to take responsibility for the current crisis, and instead claim that President Obama is responsible because he’s refused to negotiate with a gun to his head. And although Democrats, like every victim of bullying and abuse, know on some level that a refusal to comply will mean pain and suffering for many, if not all, Americans, they, finally, refused to comply. In the face of an abusive entity standing with a threatening stance in the doorway, walking through it is perilous. As we’ve seen, when abusers are thwarted, the danger is great; we hear, see and feel their howls of rage.

Like an abuser, Republicans don’t care who they hurt.
I understand that emotion; I lived it for far too long. The Republicans have bullied, threatened and extorted for a very long time. And they get away with it because they have something the Democrats will never have: A callous disregard for anyone standing between them and a win. An abuser will knock a child out of the way in a rage, to reach the object of his obsessive fury. Republicans will knock this country out of the way in that same towering rage, carelessly tossing aside Americans, blaming others for their behavior, refusing to take responsibility for the current state, and never, ever compromising. Just as an abused woman puts her life in danger when she tries to leave, the Democrats know that they’ll put this country at great risk if they set their own requirements and firmly stand their ground. But abused women do find the courage to leave, and the Democrats have found the courage to lead.

The thing about being an abuse victim, though – if you’re basically strong – is that the day comes when you fight back. The day comes when you pick up a Louisville Slugger and look him in the eye and dare him to take one more step in your direction. It’s an empowering moment when you realize that bullies can feel fear, that abusers can be dissuaded, that you don’t have to fear walking through that doorway. You realize that you have little to lose by asserting yourself. I’m confident that this day has, finally, come for our country, for Democrats, for all progressives. This is the day when we look the Republicans in the eye, brandish our symbolic Louisville Sluggers and say, “No more.” Domestic violence organizations have engaged the services of big, burly private detectives or cops to accompany women to court to face their abusers. It’s interesting, but the one thing abusers seem to respond to is the prospect of being harmed themselves. When faced with a threat, they back down.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/10/16/republicans-abusers/

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How Republicans Fit The Classic Profile Of An Abuser (Original Post) dynasaw Nov 2013 OP
So true. darkangel218 Nov 2013 #1
the GOP is our national alcoholic stepfather FatBuddy Nov 2013 #2
yikes- powerful post Chrom Nov 2013 #3
Unlike abusers, Republicans don't have honeymoon periods Warpy Nov 2013 #4
great post JanT Nov 2013 #5
Free clue (endorsed by Jesus) for Republicons Berlum Nov 2013 #6
k&r polichick Nov 2013 #7
+infinity sakabatou Nov 2013 #18
I like the term "bully" in lieu of "abuser" although both work. They are "authoritarians" rhett o rick Nov 2013 #8
I think they are the same - the only question which came first kydo Nov 2013 #11
Bullies/authoritarians are usually conservative. nm rhett o rick Nov 2013 #27
bullying is a tool or tactic employed by abusers nt hopemountain Nov 2013 #28
Wow. That is a potent statement. pangaia Nov 2013 #9
This needs to go viral! cilla4progress Nov 2013 #10
Very classic article to remembered forever... TRoN33 Nov 2013 #12
This is true, and the Obama/Pelosi/Reid wing often act as enablers: grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #13
Wow, so accurate that it's scary. Scuba Nov 2013 #34
My fav, "they are confused by the rejection and lack of approval they receive from the non-troubled grahamhgreen Nov 2013 #35
Bravo. IrishAyes Nov 2013 #14
I am blown away. Curmudgeoness Nov 2013 #15
I have thought of it in these terms Control-Z Nov 2013 #30
I have always thought of them as rude, Curmudgeoness Nov 2013 #31
Not going there because this liberal is not a victim. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #16
Big KnR thank you very much for this. chknltl Nov 2013 #17
Right On!!! citizen blues Nov 2013 #19
Good for you! brer cat Nov 2013 #25
So very true- thanks for posting this, Tumbulu Nov 2013 #20
Well argued Half-Century Man Nov 2013 #21
Politics is a full-contact sport. Ever see the Japanese or Korean parliaments when things get Flatulo Nov 2013 #22
Recommended this post Tab Nov 2013 #23
Yes k&r n/t. airplaneman Nov 2013 #24
Very good post...thanks! Vietnameravet Nov 2013 #26
ted cruz takes the cake for this profiling article hopemountain Nov 2013 #29
This is excellent. Thank you. K&R nt TBF Nov 2013 #32
K&R Cha Nov 2013 #33

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
4. Unlike abusers, Republicans don't have honeymoon periods
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 03:00 PM
Nov 2013

between episodic abuse, when they are pleasant and compliant.

They're consistently awful.

JanT

(229 posts)
5. great post
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 03:06 PM
Nov 2013

thank you for your insight. no one can truly understand an abusive relationship unless you have lived it. kudos to you for your strength to see and act to save yourself. powerful words and exactly what i have been thinking for quite sometime. i have long equated the republican party with an abuser in my own mind. living with an alcoholic for 20 years, i can truly relate to all of what you have stated.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
8. I like the term "bully" in lieu of "abuser" although both work. They are "authoritarians"
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 03:14 PM
Nov 2013

per Bob Altemeyer in his free book by that name. Look it up on the intertubes.

Dont forget that bullies are not all dominate. Every bully needs follower bullies to enable him/her. So you may know Republicans that you dont recognize as bullies, but just get them in a group and they will be doing their Sieg Heil.

Also, bullies are cowards and usually back down when stood up to. If you cant do it alone, get help.

kydo

(2,679 posts)
11. I think they are the same - the only question which came first
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 03:26 PM
Nov 2013

the bully or the abuser?

No really what's the difference between the two? Wait I know one is a republican and the other is a teabagger.

cilla4progress

(24,726 posts)
10. This needs to go viral!
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 03:22 PM
Nov 2013

So well put.

It feels like the tide may be turning, with Reid and Senate Dems standing up to the farcical filibuster. At the same time, Obamacare enrollment is up, and this presages good news on that front.

Envisioning Mr. Obama and progressives as the abused is a powerful, yet apt - in my mind - characterization.

Not only has he gotten no breaks from these guys, he has gotten not a shred of help or support. Truly fits an abusive dynamic. There are those of us out here who see this, who know...

 

TRoN33

(769 posts)
12. Very classic article to remembered forever...
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:04 PM
Nov 2013

This is the time that Americans need to stand up and voice up for our rights to our own lives. I can relate my own experience with this article and my politician aggressor is Michele Bachmann. She is beyond being cold kind of person. Someone claimed that she is very warm and sincere, I say that's bullshit. I am her former constituent before she cowardly gerrymandered herself to new district where there are plenty of gullible bible thumping people living in that district. She just said something racial about president Obama last night on the Fox News.

Eric cantor. Oh lord this idiot is very dangerous sociopath kind of person. It doesn't matter if he is good husband and good father of his own children, he is 110% against Obama and Americans who twice re-elect him.

Ted Cruz. Clinically Asshole.

Rand Paul. He just got tapped to lead the GOP outreach group in Detroit. How on God's Earth could GOP possibly think rand Paul are their go to guy after his open support for fucking confederate flags.

Mitch McConnell. Irrelevant and hopefully voted out instead of retire on his own term.

John Boehner. Incompetent and very inept.

Tea party. What the fuck is matter with these people?!?

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
13. This is true, and the Obama/Pelosi/Reid wing often act as enablers:
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:07 PM
Nov 2013
Content
Appearance to the world of the enabling personality
Feelings inside people with enabling personality traits
Typical statements of enabling individuals
Negative consequences of enabling behaviors
Irrational beliefs of people with enabling personality traits
Turning Negative Enabling Traits Into Positive Potential

Appearance to the world of the enabling personality:

* Protect others from the consequences of their own actions
* Deflect the hand of fate and soften its blow for others
* Attempt to save others from feeling intense emotional pain
* Delay the day of reckoning for troubled persons by averting social and financial difficulties for them
* Prevent crises for troubled persons--which, in fact, prolongs the problems
* Pinch-hit for troubled persons, hiding their mistakes with alibis or lies to others
* Act out of a sincere, if misguided, sense of love and loyalty
* May act out of shame to protect their self-respect and that of their environment
* Are motivated by the fear that they may share the unfortunate consequences of the troubled person's problems
* Take on responsibility for the troubled person
* Begin to doubt themselves and their own sanity or "rightness,'' often seeing themselves as failures
* Feel guilt and self-hatred, and begin to turn off their feelings toward the troubled person and others
* Engage in substantial projection onto and blaming of the troubled person
* Vent a large amount of anger against the troubled person
* Become known as sarcastic naggers and blamers
* Deny and conceal the problems of the troubled person
* Make decisions for the troubled person--decisions that are best left for the troubled person to make for himself
* Minimize the problems of the troubled person
* Feel trapped in the problems of the troubled person
* Develop an emotional shell and resist penetration

Feelings inside people with enabling personality traits:

* Powerless to change the situation
* Serious about the situation
* Blame themselves for the troubled person's problems
* Fragile in the face of the troubled person's problems
* Self-pity for the situation they are in
* Manipulation is the only method left to them to get their way to correct the troubled person's problems
* "Super-responsible" for the situation and solving the troubled person's problems
* Guilt over the troubled person's problems and the troubled person's inability to solve them
* Pain from the hurt resulting from the troubled person's problems
* Fear that the troubled person's problems will never be solved and will ultimately consume them
* Anger that they can't fix or solve the troubled person's problems

Typical statements of enabling individuals:

* I'm going to give him another chance."
* "I want to give him the benefit of the doubt."
* "I'm not clear what I should expect of him."
* "I'm not convinced that he has that problem."
* "I love him; I can't leave him."
* "I don't want him to fail."
* "I don't want him to suffer any pain or hurt."
* "I don't want him to think that I don't love him."
* "I'm beginning to suspect that I'm the reason for his problems."
* "I don't want to be mean."
* "It's hard to say no."
* "I could never forgive myself for not taking steps to prevent him from getting hurt."
* "He'd never forgive me if he got hurt or failed."
* "I've made my vows for life; I could never leave him."
* "It only hurts for a little while."
* "Look at all the trouble he's causing for me and the family."
* "I want him to get help, even if I have to drag him in."
* "What have I done wrong? Where have I gone wrong?"
* "He doesn't care how much he hurts us by his behavior."
* "I feel so unappreciated."
* "Just this one time only."
* "Let's not be hasty in our judgment."

Negative consequences of enabling behaviors:

* Low self-esteem
* The problems of the troubled people, addressed by enablers, usually become worse, rather than better
* Become discouraged about the lack of progress or change in the troubled people, and ultimately sabotage their own efforts to reform these people
* Become angry and resentful at those in their life who fail to improve
* Become resentful, bitter, antagonistic and vengeful toward those who fail to improve
* Become martyrs who seek others' sympathy over their plight in life
* Become enmeshed in the very "problem behavior" traits they resent, such as drinking, overeating, overworking and drug abuse
* Often become unappealing people and find that the non-troubled people in their lives have turned against them
* Become so adamant about a cause that they seek to reform everyone they come into contact with, sometimes obsessively
* Lose focus as to how embittered and single-focused they have become; they are confused by the rejection and lack of approval they receive from the non-troubled people in their life
* Protect others from the truth about the problems of the troubled people--suffering the anger, resentment, and hostility of the non-troubled people after they find out that the enabler has sheltered them from the truth
* Often wear themselves down so much that they suffer stress-related illnesses, like cancer, heart disease, ulcers, gastrointestinal problems and high blood pressure
* Often become troubled people who are so caught up in denial that they become difficult and resistant to getting help for themselves
* Often refuse to get help for themselves if they have been successful in getting their troubled people into treatment
* Often become immobilized by fear, insecurity and mistrust if they are not successful in getting help for the troubled people in their lives
* Often spend their lives seeking revenge against the troubled people whom they tried to reform and couldn't
* Usually end up depressed, anxious and tense

Irrational beliefs of people with enabling personality traits:

* "I must do something to help this person stop his problem behavior."
* "I can help this person stop his problem behavior."
* "Everyone should want to change if they have a problem behavior."
* "My efforts will result in reforming this person."
* "The more effort I put into addressing this problem, the more easily it will be solved."
* "The bigger the threats I make, the better the chance that he will change."
* "If a person has a problem, the only way you can help him is to stay with him."
* "My efforts to lead a good life will pay off in the reforming of this troubled person."
* "I have the answer for this person's problems."
* "I must put all of my energy into helping this person if I expect him to change."
* "Only losers give up."
* "Protecting a troubled person is one way of helping that person to get help."
* "The troubled person's behavior is the only problem our environment has."
* "If I deny or hide the problem from the members of our environment, they won't be affected by it."
* "Things are never as bad as they seem."
* "God never gives you a burden that's too great to carry on your own."
* "I know what's best for this person."
* "I must never complain about this person's behavior in public."
* "I must never let this person get in trouble because of his problem."
* "I must carry the burden of this person's problems on my own shoulders.

Turning Negative Enabling Traits Into Positive Potential


Minimizing problems
You can assist these people in recognizing the magnitude of the problems in which they are enmeshed. They can be given information about the nature of "family'' illnesses and the "sick'' roles each family member takes on, and how their enabling behaviors are "sick'' and can lead to their own physical or mental illness if left unchecked.

Protecting the troubled person from negative consequences
These people can be taught "tough love'' technology. This helps enablers to redirect their efforts toward helping troubled people recognize and accept the consequences of their own troubled behavior. In this way, the enabler will let the troubled person "face the music'' of his problems early on, let him "hit a brick wall'' and recognize the need to get help for the problem on his own.

Self-blaming
When they have learned that there is virtually nothing they can do to reform a troubled person, enablers can take themselves off the hook of blame and place the responsibility for the problem back in the hands of the troubled person.

Manipulation
When they realize that most of their efforts exacerbate the problems they seek to ease, enablers can stop using threats, bribes, ultimatums and trickery to reform people. They can use honesty, assertiveness, openness and confrontation to get help for themselves, then address the troubled behavior of others.

Super-responsible
By handing the responsibility for the problem back to the troubled person, and by viewing the problem more rationally, enablers can encourage the troubled person to seek help for himself, address his problem and be open and vulnerable to change.

Acting out of loyalty
Enablers need to be guided in their feelings of loyalty to avoid protecting troubled people from the negative consequences of their actions. Redirected loyalty is meant to encourage the troubled person face his problem honestly and get help in a timely manner, preventing the problems from becoming uncontrollable.

Powerlessness
Enablers can be helped to recognize that practicing "tough love'' and helping others accept personal responsibility for their own actions is a powerful behavior with a more productive outcome than the tactics they previously used.

Denial
Enablers need to hit their own "brick wall'' and get help for themselves before they can effectively help others. Seeing the troubled person get sicker, or getting into trouble on the job or with the law, can force enablers to end their denial of the problem, forcing them to take corrective measures to alter their enabling strategies.

Sarcasm, nagging, blaming
Once they are able to let go of super-responsibility for others' problems, enablers are also able to stop chronically reminding troubled people of their problems and reprimanding them for them. Enablers can be helped to recognize that this verbal "garbage'' is the very behavior that gives troubled people the excuse for indulging in the problem behavior in the first place.

Low self-esteem
Once enablers let go of the need to solve the problem no matter what, they are able to view themselves in a healthier, more rational way. They can love and respect themselves better and pursue avenues that will make them feel good, allowing them to have fun.
 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
35. My fav, "they are confused by the rejection and lack of approval they receive from the non-troubled
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 03:49 AM
Nov 2013

people in their life."

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
30. I have thought of it in these terms
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 07:05 PM
Nov 2013

almost from day one. When Joe Wilson yelled, "you lie", to President Obama during his first State of the Union address, I felt it.

I guess I kind of thought everyone recognized it and just handled it better than I. Last month when Dick Durbin said he had heard a House GOP leader say, "I cannot even stand to look at you", to the president, I literally felt sick.


Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
31. I have always thought of them as rude,
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 07:20 PM
Nov 2013

arrogant, and ill-mannered (as well as a lot of other less flattering terms). But I guess that I never paid enough attention to the details to see it as abusive. But it makes so much sense. It is classic abuser.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
17. Big KnR thank you very much for this.
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:21 PM
Nov 2013

I found this useful and informative. Historically I have been on the wrong end of abusive relationships for most of my life, I had not considered that the gop was acting out the same way. I will be passing this around to those who are important to me. Thanks again dynasaw.

citizen blues

(570 posts)
19. Right On!!!
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:27 PM
Nov 2013

As a survivor of domestic abuse, I can attest that these are all the same traits my abuser had. He always had to be right. Never was it his fault. And on and on and on.

Obama and Reid are absolutely right in how to deal with them. I still have no contact with my ex. I put up a brick wall that has never and will never be taken down even though he's now been diagnosed as bipolar and is on medication. I still want nothing to do with him. He hurt me and fucked with my head in ways no one else has ever even come close to. I was in horrible shape when I did a 36-hour move out of the house. Thanks to my friends and family, counseling and a domestic violence support group, I came through it.

Never again. Never will I put up with that sort of narcissistic, sociopathic behavior. And we should most certainly have a zero tolerance towards it in our government and politics.

Tumbulu

(6,272 posts)
20. So very true- thanks for posting this,
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:33 PM
Nov 2013

I do think that we as Liberals need to stop being bullied and abused and stopping the filibuster of nominees was a very good beginning baby step.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
21. Well argued
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:36 PM
Nov 2013

I wonder if the "personality" of the republican party is a reflection of the personalities of the individual members, or a dysfunctional "personality" which happened to manifest from just being a group conciseness? A, the plural people are scared panicky animals vs the single person is rational, kind of thing.
Sa
Whatever, the motivation behind the abuse is for clinical studies after the abuser is stopped/contained. It really doesn't matter during the abuse.

On a personal note, I want to remind you that it doesn't matter if one gets strength from running away or simply being able to survive. Strength is strength, how you get it is far less important than how you use it.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
22. Politics is a full-contact sport. Ever see the Japanese or Korean parliaments when things get
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:38 PM
Nov 2013

heated? It's fucking Fight Club. They literally beat the shit out of each other. Punches get thrown, people get each other in head locks and pummel faces, etc.

At least things haven't gotten physical yet, although that asshole who yelled out "you lie" when the President - the President - was speaking should have been censured at the very least, and the Secret Service would have been justified in tackling him as a potential threat to the POTUS. That was a new low in how to treat the President. Even GWB was never treated like that.

Tab

(11,093 posts)
23. Recommended this post
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:46 PM
Nov 2013

and I usually don't bother, but this post is very true. In my first marriage, my spouse had Borderline Personality Disorder, which the Republican party so reminds me of. It's a mix of revisionist history, objectification (children or something else is object, in this example, the economy, that can be damaged if it achieves the goal of demonstrating how angry one is), projection (it's your fault, regardless of how it really happened), and so on and so forth. It really was an abusive relationship in many ways.

And it is very empowering when you stand up against it.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
29. ted cruz takes the cake for this profiling article
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 05:44 PM
Nov 2013

was just wondering the other day how he interacts with his wife and kids.

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