As of 2011, 90% of Democrats believe in God (or a Higher Spirit): Gallup.

[Skip Intro]

I found this stat looking for info to reply to a post in another thread, and it was such a huge majority that I thought it would make a good point of discussion. Seems America does believe.




http://www.gallup.com/poll/147887/Americans-Continue-Believe-God.aspx


on edit: link to other thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024098449

[lostincalifornia]

1. How would an agnostic answer this

[Journeyman]

11. Shrug. . .

[LadyHawkAZ]

27. I don't know.

[defacto7]

43. How would an ignostic answer this?

An ignostic would probably say, "I don't understand the question. Believe in God? Please define God". At that point, the poll would be defused.

[Major Nikon]

46. That's why I have no use for gallup

Some of the questions they have been asking for decades are useful, because they have been at it for a long time and you can make comparisons. This one is not particularly useful because it presents a dichotomy and forces the person to choose without a not sure option.

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. The question did have a 'no opinion' option

And they also ask other questions that give other alternatives, as it says on that page. Here's what they asked to get the figures in the OP:

21. (Asked of a half sample) Do you believe in God?
Yes
No
No opinion

22. (Asked of a half sample) Do you believe in God or a universal spirit?
Yes
No
No opinion

http://www.gallup.com/poll/File/147890/Belief_in_God_110603%20.pdf

'No opinion' hasn't got more than 2% in 12 surveys.

[Major Nikon]

81. No opinion is not the same thing

Among believers I suspect the unequivocal belief in a higher power is quite low. Among non-believers I suspect the unequivocal belief that a higher power doesn't exist is also quite low.

So basically all the question determines is what percentage of the population are positive atheists, which is a minority position even among atheists. As someone else pointed out, agnostics have no answer to this question. No opinion is not the same thing as not sure.

[muriel_volestrangler]

83. 'no opinion' is the same thing as 'don't know'; 'unequivocal' is quite different

Which question do you think only determines 'positive atheists'? I think your analysis of the English language is not up to scratch on this occasion. An agnostic can very easily answer 'no opinion' to this; I would say that would be the most accurate thing for they to express their opinion with.

[Major Nikon]

90. You are being disingenuous with what I said

Assuming an agnostic does have an opinion, what is the right answer?

[muriel_volestrangler]

91. 'no opinion' (nt)

[Major Nikon]

94. I just told you they did have an opinion

So you have selected the most wrong response or the least right depending on if you are a glass half full or half empty sort.

Furthermore I know of no other data set that suggests positive atheists outnumber agnostics by a factor of 7 to 1. Perhaps you can help here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

98. An agnostic does not have an opinion on whether a god or universal spirit exists

Therefore they should answer 'no opinion'. That you call that 'having an opinion' is your problem, not mine.

[Major Nikon]

102. I think your analysis of the English language is not up to scratch on this occasion

Last edited Wed Nov 27, 2013, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Agnostics do have an opinion on on whether a god or universal spirit exists. Some have very strong opinions on the subject. The mere act of identifying as an agnostic means you may have an opinion on the subject. Qualifying this with an agnostic who has an opinion narrows that down. No definition of agnosticism I have ever seen suggests all agnostics "do(es) not have an opinion on whether a god or universal spirit exists". Indifference to the existence of god is apatheism or to a lesser degree pragmatic agnosticism which is a subset of agnosticism. I am well aware of what all these things mean. I asked you specifically how would an agnostic who had an opinion would answer this question. I did not ask you how an apatheist would answer this question. I am being precise with the English language. Damn precise even. So being disengenuous or subliteracy explains your logical disconnect. Neither of which is my problem.

Furthermore you never even attempted to deal with the question that if your version of literacy were correct, why does the data set suggest that positive atheists outnumber agnostics by 7 to 1 when other data sets suggest the reverse relationship?

Just sayin'

[lostincalifornia]

86. Thank-you, exactly my point

[valerief]

137. To me, Gallup is a synonym for Religion-Lobbying. nt

[gcomeau]

60. That's the same as asking...

...how an accountant would answer this.

With whatever their answer was. Which has nothing to do with whether they're agnostic. (Or an accountant)

[lostincalifornia]

87. There is no choice for none of the above

[gcomeau]

95. Becase "none of the above"...

...is not a valid response to a yes/no question.

[lostincalifornia]

105. There are some questions that are not simply yes or no, that is why this poll is bull

[gcomeau]

107. True.

But "Do you believe in God" IS a yes/no question. About as clear cut a yes/no question as you can find anywhere.

You either do... or you don't. Period. No third option. Binary solution set. That belief either resides in your noggin... or it does not.

[MillennialDem]

114. The poll, like religious people and even some rabid atheists is black and white

when it shouldn't be. Do I believe in God? Well I don't really believe or disbelieve, I have no idea what happens after we die or if there was a supernatural event before the Big Bang or if there are any supernatural events still occurring. The latter I would view as unlikely though.

Belief in God (or Gods, or other supernatural/spiritual ideas) is not the same to me as saying "I believe the stock market will hit 20,000 at some point in the next 30 years" and "I do not believe the stock market will be exactly 1,000 on January 1, 2027". Such "beliefs" regarding the stock market or other data with a scientific or mathematical basis makes sense to me. Belief in God... or disbelief in God is kind of silly because it's discussing something we are just too stupid to understand in any meaningful way.

So would my answer be yes, no, or no opinion? :p

[gcomeau]

115. Sigh...

Do I believe in God? Well I don't really believe

Then the answer's no. Wasn't that easy?

...or disbelieve,

Nobody asked if you "disbelieved". You get that right?

[Major Nikon]

125. It's a false dichotomy whether you choose to acknowledge it or not

The fact that it diverges significantly from other surveys should be telling you something.

It forces people to choose between two absolutes when many are very much in between. If you set your google to agnosticism you'll find a wealth of information you're missing.

[gcomeau]

126. No, it isn't.

It forces people to choose between two absolutes when many are very much in between.

And just what exactly would constitute "In between" having or not having a belief?

[Major Nikon]

128. I've already told you how to answer your own question

Give a man a fish...

[gcomeau]

154. No you haven't

And avoiding answering it yourself sends a certain message.

[Major Nikon]

155. Have it your way

"And just what exactly would constitute "In between" having or not having a belief?"

agnosticism
ag·nos·ti·cism
[ag-nos-tuh-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1. the doctrine or belief of an agnostic.
2. an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnosticism

agnostic
ag·nos·tic
noun \ag-ˈnäs-tik, əg-\
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : [div style="display:inline; background-color:#FFFF66;"]one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

Agnosticism is the belief that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown.[1][2][3] Agnosticism sometimes indicates doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In the popular sense, [div style="display:inline; background-color:#FFFF66;"]an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities

, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.[2] Philosopher William L. Rowe states that in the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that humanity lacks the requisite knowledge or sufficient rational grounds to justify either belief: that there exists some deity, or that no deities exist.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

These are the most obvious and popular references which you could have derived from a 5 second google search (assuming a moderately fast internet connection). If you require further reading, you can go...

Here:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#3

or here:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01215c.htm

or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God#Conclusions

or here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=agnosticism

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

[gcomeau]

157. Try again.

This time contemplate the difference between not having a belief and having a disbelief. You have not answered my question, you have answered a different one.

Now if you would care to answer the question I actually asked you, I'll wait...

[Major Nikon]

159. Why don't you answer your own question

I answered your question twice. The 2nd time I provided numerous references, complete with numerous cites and even went to the trouble to highlight text that was directly relevant to the question. So I'm satisfied I answered your question and I'm pretty sure any reasonable person would agree. Furthermore several people upthread provided the exact same answer and nobody but you seems to think there is some other option here. If you simply want to pretend I didn't answer it, go right ahead. It only reflects on your own credibility. I have no idea what game you are trying to play, but whatever it is I'm opting out at this point.

Cheers!

[gcomeau]

166. I did.

There's no such state. That's the answer.


And as I pointed out to you you didn't understand the question and answered the wrong one. What's mind blowing is you still apparently don't get that even after having it spelled out for you.

[Chan790]

150. Reality. n/t

[Coyotl]

2. Seriously doubt that!

Here's the other thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024098449

Why It's Easier for Republicans to Believe in God Than Evolution

[Skip Intro]

4. I didn't take the poll.

Sorry, should have included a link to the other thread, will edit OP.

[Coyotl]

17. Christian bias is a polling problem.

Demographics of atheism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

Atheists comprised an estimated 2.01%, and non-religious a further 9.66% of the world population, according to The World Factbook in 2010.[1] In East Asia, atheists and the irreligious are the majority. Outside of East Asia and some European countries atheist or non-believer percentages are typically in the single digits. The number of atheists is on the rise across the world, with religiosity generally declining.[2]

Scientific assessment of the extent of "atheism" in various populations is beset with a number of problems. First in most of the world outside of East Asia the vast majority of the populations are believers in either a monotheistic or polytheistic system, typically being cited as 90% or more in countries like the United States or India. Consequently questions to assess non belief often take the form of any negation of the prevailing belief rather than an assertion of positive atheism and these will then be accounted, somewhat inaccurately, to rising "atheism".[3][4][5]

[Skip Intro]

20. A 92% problem? n/t

[Coyotl]

31. 28% of Protestants, 33% of Catholics, and 23% of those who attend weekly religious services DO NOT

Statistical problems

Statistics on atheism are often difficult to represent accurately for a variety of reasons. Atheism is a position compatible with other forms of identity. Some atheists also consider themselves Agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, Jains, Taoist, or hold other related philosophical beliefs. Some, like Secular Jews and Shintoists, may indulge in some religious activities as a way of connecting with their culture, all the while being atheist. Therefore, given limited poll options, some may use other terms to describe their identity. Some politically motivated organizations that report or gather population statistics may, intentionally or unintentionally, misrepresent atheists. Survey designs may bias results due to the nature of elements such as the wording of questions and the available response options. Also, many atheists, particularly former Catholics and former Mormons, are still counted as Christians in church rosters, although surveys generally ask samples of the population and do not look in church rosters. Other Christians believe that "once a person is [truly] saved, that person is always saved", a doctrine known as eternal security.[11] Statistics are generally collected on the assumption that religion is a categorical variable. Instruments have been designed to measure attitudes toward religion, including one that was used by L. L. Thurstone. This may be a particularly important consideration among people who have neutral attitudes, as it is more likely that prevailing social norms will influence the responses of such people on survey questions that effectively force respondents to categorize themselves either as belonging to a particular religion or belonging to no religion. A negative perception of atheists and pressure from family and peers may also cause some atheists to disassociate themselves from atheism. Misunderstanding of the term may also be a reason some label themselves differently.

For example, a Canadian poll released September 12, 2011 sampled 1,129 Canadian adults and came up with some interesting unrelated data on the numbers of declared atheists.[12] These numbers conflicted with the latest Canadian census data that pre-supposed that a religious affiliation predisposed a belief in a deity and was based on a poorly worded question. A quote from the study:

The data also revealed some interesting facts about Canadians beliefs:

A majority (53%) of Canadians believe in God. What is of particular interest is that 28% of Protestants, 33% of Catholics, and 23% of those who attend weekly religious services do not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

[muriel_volestrangler]

77. Those are Canadians; when the OP talks about 'Democrats', we can take it as meaning Americans

Yes, Americans have a significantly higher belief in God than comparable countries. From 2004:



http://www.gallup.com/poll/13990/britons-lack-american-cousins-piety.aspx

And from that, we see that, in 2004 (when there was a slightly higher Canadian belief in God found - 64%), only 16% of them said they attended services weekly. So 23% of them is about 4% of the population.

[hrmjustin]

3. The party needs to welcome believers and non-believers.

[defacto7]

6. Thanks you!

It's true. Mostly doesn't happen, but dems are more inclusive than the GOP.

[Skip Intro]

12. I agree. n/t

[2banon]

18. Do you think the party doesn't? They bend so far back as to have their heads up their collective

asses trying to prove how close to god they are.

I'm just curious as to why the obsession over this bs from various quarters. the perpetual myth as if it should have any fucking bearing on politics, particularly when it's USED as a device to further divide- by the biggest and most corrupt people of all, those that wear the Big C along with the flag as if to make themselves better than thou.

I'm so sick of this shit, i want to puke every time someone waves the flag and cite biblical horseshit especially in political discussions.

[CAG]

22. God bless America!!!

Did you puke??

[2banon]

24. lame

[CAG]

29. funny, I had the same reaction reading your little tantrum

[2banon]

34. take your snarky comments somewhere else. I wasn't talking to you in the first place.

[cleanhippie]

93. There's that Christian love we hear so much about.

[Go Vols]

124. +1

[eqfan592]

127. +10000!! nt

[hrmjustin]

25. The reality is they do what they have to, to get votes.

I respect an understand to some extent how you feel about this.

[2banon]

36. That's exactly what makes me sick.

The Hypocrisy is beyond the pale, one would think the tactic would be beyond useless at this point in our history. So, someone pulls a bs poll suggesting that 90% of the people around me are god fearing christians, even though that's NOT what poll even says, yet it will (like so many other misleading polls) be used in this really lame game of political tomfoolery.

[hrmjustin]

38. I tend to think it is less than 90% but at least 75%.

[2banon]

45. I guess it's more of a regional thing

I can tell you that the majority of the population anywhere I've lived in this country for the past 63 years doesn't attend church services on Sunday mornings.. just based on personal observation. the majority of the population seem to be attending their service at shopping malls. The worst day of the week to try to take a drive anywhere is on a Sunday.. These folks aren't in churches. They're on the road and in the malls. All that to say, sure anyone can say they "believe" in god. but what does that really mean anyway? Are they devout christians. naaaahhh..

[hrmjustin]

50. Church attendance is in decline in this nation amoung Chritians for so many reasons.

[liberal_at_heart]

52. I live in Western Washington State, the most liberal part of the state. There are still

at least a dozen Christian churches very near my residence. There was at least a dozen Christian churches near my last residence as well. I have to drive for 45 minutes to reach a Buddhist temple.

[maxsolomon]

111. But is anyone ever AT them? Or are they historical relics?

As they are exempt from taxation, they often sit vastly underused. The PNW is the least churched region of the country - in the midwest, there'd be 2 dozen.

In Seattle, the multiple historic churches in the U District and Capitol Hill are not used for worship as much as they are for community functions - lectures, concerts, even meetings of other religions (Vipassana meditation), and for homeless outreach.

Congregations are shrinking and aging quickly. I work with a 40 year old guy who is the youngest person at his church.

As Thomas Jefferson's bible showed, you can absorb the philosophy of Jesus without worshipping him as the Messiah.

[2banon]

118. I didn't know Jefferson said that, but there's a whole lot of truth in 'them words'

I think one of things that eats at me, is jumping to conclusions/assumptions as to the meaning of the answers "yes I believe in God" to the ambiguous (or less than direct) question(s) laid out in the OP.

It actually portends we all should take specific and significant meaning from this, and that our nations politics should cater to highly flawed conclusions.

I mean apart from self avowed Atheists and Agnostics, who doesn't believe in a higher force/spirit, most often referred to as God and all the given variants?

The only point in "polling" this question is to continue the highly corrupted political machinations (that is to say lame but incredibly profitable gamesmanship) for status quo outcomes.

i.m.h.o.

[maxsolomon]

123. If you haven't checked out the Jefferson Bible, you really should

If Obama did anything remotely similar, he'd be drawn and quartered in the streets of DC.

[Major Nikon]

133. Jefferson suffered for it too

Many painted him as an atheist (which he may have been). I've seen the ACTUAL Jefferson Bible. There's also an exhibit at Monticello that shows how he made it. Basically took out a knife and cut out all the hocus pocus. Neat stuff.

[2banon]

147. no doubt n/t

[RKP5637]

85. Well said!!! Religion is all about manipulative propaganda and politics, but many

can't rip off the veil and see the bullshit for what it is ... rather, they succumb to their programmed firmware, longing for belief in something better than the crap many endure in life ... and others want to control others ... religion often provides that leverage ... and for some great $$$$$.

PS: Talking to some religious individuals is akin to talking to Tea Baggers to see what is going on ... one can't get past the hard coded reflex patterns in their logic and thought processes.

[grahamhgreen]

62. 90% ARE believers, so we can just welcome each other, I guess (and others) :)

[geomon666]

5. *shrug*

A certain number of people will believe anything.

[Skip Intro]

10. Yeah. Evidently 92% in this case. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

146. As a poster mentioned above, the party should welcome both believers and non-believers

It's the racists that need to be constantly attacked and kept out.

By any means necessery.

[NYC_SKP]

7. Look. Gallup is full of shit, as are the others. Proof:

http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/poll-gallup-healthcare-insurance/2013/11/25/id/538519?promo_code=12289-1&utm_source=12289Raw_Story&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/cnn-poll-obama-honest/2013/11/25/id/538496?promo_code=12289-1&utm_source=12289Raw_Story&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/poll-obama-majority-dishonest/2013/11/25/id/538496

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cbs-poll-obamacare-repealed/2013/11/20/id/537683

http://www.newsmax.com/surveys/RateObama/Rate-Obama-on-His-Job-Performance/id/97/kw/default?promo_code=12289-1

It just goes on in perpetuity.

[Skip Intro]

8. All polls are full of shit unless they show what you want them to show?

[NYC_SKP]

13. Yes, most of the time. I find most people are this way.

Come on, admit it, don't you love to disagree with polls that disagree with you?

[Skip Intro]

19. I don't like to see polls that report what I don't want to see.

I'll say that.

Only because I KNOW most people agree with ME!!!

[NYC_SKP]

26. Polls like that are decidedly WRONG!

[2banon]

9. Nobody called me for my vote

I don't believe the assumptions and conclusions. Sorry. Gallup is full of shit most of the time, imo.

[defacto7]

14. Compared to....??

what?

edit to add:

Why does it matter? I think it only matters to the believers anyway. What matters to atheists is freedom from religious control of our private lives and the freedom to have an opinion without prejudice. But the numbers?? That's for people who want to save people from something.

[nyquil_man]

15. That's super. nt

[bowens43]

16. Sad, we have these big wonderful brains and so many insist on filling them with religious bullshit.

How can any rational being believe in invisible, magical, omnipotent sky fairies? We are no longer iron age goat herders and we need to stop acting like we are......

[Coyotl]

21. Metaphysics is by definition not real. Rather easy to understand, one should expect.

It is as if (90%?) of humans in the USA are incapable of thinking rationally?? No wonder we are so screwed up politically.

Is a solution to our political problems to be found in getting people to examine their fundamental false assumptions?

[meaculpa2011]

76. "Metaphysics is by definition not real." ???

Try again.

[hrmjustin]

28. I believe because I feel in my heart God exists.

[defacto7]

65. I left this thread a while ago but just now returned

thinking about your comment. I asked myself, "how can I show appreciation for this person's comment without sounding like a cagey atheist?" Anyway, if nothing else atheists have a nose for BS, I guess it's in our nature. Your answer to the question, "why do you believe in God?" is the only correct answer a believer can offer. If you were to say you saw god in the sky... I would call delusion. If you said I believe because science shows or doesn't show.... I'd call error in facts. If you had said you believe because the bible says so... I call error of ignorance. But you gave the only answer that does not destroy the concept of faith as stated in Christian tenets. Most answers undermine the Christian concept of faith from its foundation. You left it intact. Therefore I see a logical reason for you to believe in God. It does not include me or anyone else. It does not nullify faith be seeing, hearing or touching God, and it does not demand others to believe your experience. It just is what it is. It's simple.

Of course that is not my experience and I don't have that perception or have a need for it but your belief as stated is the only reasonably logical answer to the question a Christian can give considering the prerequisites of faith.

My atheist 2 cents.

[snooper2]

97. oh jesus y. christ

LOL

[Arugula Latte]

37. You know what I think it is? Most humans wants to feel that they're special, unique and immortal.

Believing that their little planet among billions of galaxies and planets at this particular 2,000 year timespan out of multibillions is the focus of the magical omnipotent sky fairy and his son (for Xtians) and, also, that they will live forever just because they are so incredibly fantastic and loved by the invisible fairy and perhaps his son makes them feel special. It's the human ego -- which probably evolved as a survival mechanism.

[nomorenomore08]

61. Religious and spiritual beliefs aren't always so simplistic

("invisible, magical, omnipotent sky fairies&quot . I'm an atheist/agnostic myself but I don't feel the need to compare all believers to "Iron Age goat herders."

[Arugula Latte]

109. Well, some of them were sheep herders.

I kid, I kid.

[nomorenomore08]

131. Having been raised Catholic, gone to Catholic schol, I'm certainly not a huge fan of

organized religion. I haven't even been terribly excited about the new Pope - I don't think of him as an evil man the way I did Benedict, but I also don't agree with those who seem to think he's the greatest thing since unleavened bread.

[Major Nikon]

141. People should be reminded that's where it comes from

The same people thought the sun rotated around the earth and included women and children in property laws. Now perhaps the belief for those things is waning, but we still have to have "debate" on whether the earth is 6,000 yrs old or not. There is harm in using a 2,000 yr old relic as a moral compass even to those who don't participate.

Whether or not the comparison is a pejorative is debatable, but until religionists start to stand up in significant numbers and call bullshit when those who speak for them demonize atheists I am not highly motivated to have that debate.

[nomorenomore08]

144. Fair enough. And frankly, I do find religion in general kind of stupid. Fundamentalism doubly so.

If keeping church and state separate necessitates the waning of religious belief - which has already been happening in this country anyway - then so be it, I suppose.

[SammyWinstonJack]

88. Yesssss!

We are no longer iron age goat herders and we need to stop acting like we are...


Way past time.

Or at the very least....keep that invisible, magical, omnipotent sky fairies thinking to oneself and stop trying to rule/ruin others' lives with it.


Is that too much to ask?

[RBInMaine]

138. Exactly. But this is BULLSHIT. People just don't answer this honestly in phone interviews. More and

more people are "coming out" and admitting that this is nonsense.

[CAG]

23. Thanks for the thread! I'm always so worried that the DU non-believers are sitting at home bored,

twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do and then, **BOOM**, their day is made by yet another chance to ridicule us believers on how stupid we are.

[djean111]

32. Oh, I just idly wondered "So what?"

I don't ridicule a belief in religion, but I do find it hilarious that polls about it are thought to mean anything at all - belief does not mean reality, either for religion or atheism.
Oh, well, come to think of it, polls can show politicians who to pander to. There's that.

[pnwmom]

39. It's easy to lose perspective about mainstream Dems,

much less Americans, when you're on DU. Here you could think most Dems are agnostics or atheists.

Why does it matter? Because gratuitous insults to people of faith do nothing to encourage them to listen to your arguments.

[djean111]

53. I was not insulting people of faith at all - and, honestly, seriously,

I don't know why either camp argues. I just do not want religion to affect my life. I avoid it as much as possible, I see no need to argue about it.
In my ideal world, I would not even be aware of anyone else's belief or non-belief, much less need to make allowances for it.
An OP fairly crowing that "90%" of Americans believe in some sort of thing" just seems to me to be saying "Look! All these people can't be wrong! Come into the light!"
For me, not even if it was a trillion people to just little old me.

Anyway, yes, there is a political reality that must needs be catered to. One of the hundreds of reasons I could never be a politician. I wish religion could be rooted out of politics, but alas and alack.

[pnwmom]

57. I wasn't referring to you. I was just pointing out why it matters.

Some of the people who post bigoted comments about people of faith don't realize they're doing nothing to advance their arguments.

[defacto7]

55. It's ironic to me...

I have exactly the opposite perspective. Here I would think most Dems are believers. Why does it matter? Because insults toward non-believers do nothing to encourage them to listen to believer's arguments.

Now that makes me think very carefully about my position since both perspectives are so reversed. Does it make you consider the relevance of your opinion or not?

[djean111]

108. Oh, I think when one replies to a comment that jeers about atheists being bored and twiddling

their thumbs, and then read that atheists should not make disparaging remarks about theists - expecting logic is kind of pointless.
And as a non-believer, I cannot even imagine what a believer's "arguments" would consist of, at this point.
They have no proof, just belief. Not logical to believe something just because a lot of other people believe it, without concrete proof.
Those arguments are better known as proselytizing or preaching. No matter how well-meant - pointless. And have the opposite effect when, for instance, I am told I cannot possibly be moral or know right from wrong unless instructed to by religion. Right.

I confess I don't care if other dems are believers or not - except, I guess, if catering to their belief is necessary to get out their vote. Just keep religious beliefs out of the legal process. Yeah, dream on, djean!

[eqfan592]

129. Given the fact that the very existence of atheists is a gratuitous insult...

...in the eyes of some believers, I find it difficult to work up much sympathy for the ruffled feathers of some believers.

[Bluenorthwest]

99. In the Bible, Jesus tells his followers that they will be mocked and persecuted for believing and he

commands them to rejoice and be exceedingly glad when that happens. He says nothing about whining about the terrible nonbelievers. Nothing about demanding respect for believers, he simply says 'they will ridicule you and you should be glad when they do'.
Those of you who are not rejoicing but instead kvetching do not seem to have gotten that Gospel Memo.

[Logical]

153. I imagine you sit at home waiting to tell us how wonderful God is. And how he changed your life! n-t

[Kurska]

30. What on earth is a universal spirit?

Seems like a bad poll, considering every other one I've seen puts it closer to around 80% believing in god.

[defacto7]

67. I believe in

the Universal Spirit of facts and humankind. I guess that puts me in the 92%.

Take that you poll, you!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

33. I'm one of the 8%, but I find myself defending the Pope against semi-literate Canadians

Strange world, but the Catholic Church has a very different leader than they did just a short time ago, and as far as I can tell, it's all to the good.

[defacto7]

41. That makes some logical sense...

I guess for people who need to finally have a leader they can like, it's good to have one that's not as bad as the others. But "not as bad as the rest" just doesn't quite make it for me.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

44. To me it's the delta, the radical shift in such a short amount of time.

The Catholic church seems to change at a fairly glacial pace. But we've gone from the right wing Hitler Youth pope to a leftist, populist pope very rapidly, and the new guy didn't take much of a honeymoon period before he began speaking out. Again, I'm an agnostic, and I believe the Catholic Church has a long way to go...I'll never be in full agreement with them, or they'd cease to be a church (see agnostic, above). But it seems to me that a lot has started to change in a short amount of time, and for the better. Thanks.

[SidDithers]

79. ...

Sid

[Cali_Democrat]

119. You're defending the Pope against Canadians?

[eqfan592]

130. This made me literally laugh out loud. perfect placement for that meme! nt

[Tikki]

35. YAY I am finally a 1% or 10% or however much..

Tikki

[hrmjustin]

40. This poll says 98%of Republicans believe in God.

I find that hard to believe.

[CAG]

47. They believe in Republican Jesus

[hrmjustin]

51. Yeah their Jesus hates poor people and hangs out with the wall street crowd.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. "Man is the only animal to have discovered The One True God....several of them." Mark Twain

[hobbit709]

68. +1

[IDemo]

96. "Excerpt From Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven"

was one of the influences on me at around the age of 11

[Scootaloo]

48. And how many answer that because of pressure to do so?

It's the same sort of thing that makes the Bible "the most-read book." You're going to tell a stranger on the phone that you breathlessly heave over Fifty Shades? No, you're a good person with good taste and so you read the bible like a good person with good taste! Right? Right!

[quaker bill]

75. Far fewer than you might guess

[LostOne4Ever]

113. Especially the Songs of Solomen :) (nt)

[bhikkhu]

49. Societal pressure

everybody wants to get along, and to say you don't believe in god is exactly like marching into a kindergarten and saying Santa is fake. If everybody thinks everybody believes in god, then they say "yes" when someone asks if they believe in god.

I have no use for belief myself, but I remember my grandma's funeral, all the pomp and ceremony and religious solemnity, all the assurances of the afterlife. It does nothing for me, but I'd still be uncomfortable saying to my family that I didn't believe, having seen the whole group demonstration of belief. Perhaps everyone else there was thinking the same thing...

[quaker bill]

78. nah

social pressure might exist if you were asked in public standing among a group of strangers. Little of that exists with a telephone poll.

The bigger question is the nature of the "god" they believe in. I expect that varies a lot.

[bhikkhu]

142. Another aspect of that is, it doesn't take any thought to "believe in god"

you don't have to work it out, make a decision, or put any effort into it at all. For most people I think the answer to the question has about as much depth of meaning as "what's your favorite color". In a society where all the easy paths are to believe like everyone else, to go with the flow, and you don't even have to ever go to church or spend time learning a single thing, its no wonder that 90% "believe" - its safe, easy, and it really doesn't matter.

Those 10% that don't believe are probably divided between people who've been conned by some church or other, and those who have really thought it through and determined, based on evidence (or the lack of evidence), that there is no god. That's a tough decision with a lot more weight behind it.

[peacebird]

54. NPR had a show on Sunday that said athiest/agnostic was at 20% now

Where is the Dueling statistics smiley when you need it...?

[demosincebirth]

56. The exception? DU.

[spanone]

58. 'universal spirit' could include every belief

invalidates the poll. imho

[Deep13]

59. What's a "universal spirit?"

That doesn't even have to be anything supernatural, just people agreeing to get along.

[HereSince1628]

80. It's something required in 12-step addiction recovery programs

It's the higher power thing that is believed to provide individuals strength to deal with their addictions and compulsions.

Makes sense to me all the way around.

[Deep13]

112. So, God then.

Even though they deny it, a "higher power" that has the ability to save someone from from a self-destructive live is the Christian God. I know they say it can be anything, but anything can't restore one to sanity. That s specifically Christian redemption.

[HereSince1628]

139. Well, an emotional crutch or a cane...something to give confidence

something that you can lean on, but really can't, because it's not really there, but that the idea of it being there is as good as it being there.

There.

I think that there is perfectly clear.

[Nevernose]

148. Or just a sense of humility

Because even the must depressed, self-loathing addicts tend to be frighteningly self-absorbed. All that "God" stuff in AA and NA seems mostly just a way of saying, "There are more important things in the universe than you, asshole."

[HereSince1628]

152. Yes, maybe, I certainly can't say what was meant...

I can read. And I've read various applications of the principle which all seem to deal with spiritual entities.

I suspect anything that implies "you are an asshole" might meet certain Abrahamic sects views of humanity. But that sort of low self-worth may also drive people to addictive behaviors that squelch the abusive voice of culture.

At any rate, I wasn't around a century ago when 12-step was being invented and don't know its history or how such interpretation has changed since that origin.

[defacto7]

66. Welcome to DU

Looks like your doing it right. Carry on.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. I'm confused. Do all those people believe in the SAME "God"? If not, the wording should be

they believe in "a" God, not "God".

Did anyone ask any of that 90% if they believe in more than one?

There is by no means universal agreement on what the word "God" actually represents, even less so on what the hell a "universal spirit" is supposed to actually mean.

However, apparently 90% of people state they believe in one of several vague and ill-defined terms. Which proves something, I guess.

[hobbit709]

69. the only god I believe in is Murphy

The only one that continually manifests himself.

[Fumesucker]

71. And 98% of Republicans believe in God

Imagine how awesome Democrats could be if 10% of them believed in God.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. The God I believe in is so awesome, he doesn't NEED to exist. He's more awesomer because he DOESN'T.

And he especially wants people NOT to believe in him. It makes him mad to be believed in. Or it would, if he existed.

He just wants to be left alone to read the damn non-existent newspaper that his non-existent dog brought him, wearing his non-existent robe and his non-existent slippers in non-existent peace.

[GeorgeGist]

73. How many believe in ...

Mother Nature?

[RKP5637]

82. .... hmmm, does that equate to belief in extraterrestrial intelligence? ... or just the

fairyland version ...

[cherokeeprogressive]

84. Man, ya had to know THIS was going to piss some people off...

I hear a lot of angry voices coming from the Big Tent this morning.

Maybe we should ban Christian Beliefs from the Party. Makes us look too republican or something.

[Cali_Democrat]

120. We already have quite a few Republicans posing as Dems as it is

I don't think banning Christian beliefs will be effective, know what I mean?

[cherokeeprogressive]

143. I hope you don't lose any sleep...

in your constant crusade to expose me as a republican who votes for Democrats in statewide and national elections. That's the best it can ever get for you you know, no matter how hard you try, or how many people you whisper to: The best you'll ever do is expose me as a republican who votes for Democrats... and good fucking luck with that.

You could, with maximum fanfare, local news coverage, interviews with my neighbors, family, and lifelong friends hold up for the cameras ballots I have cast in the past with evidence of my votes - which in statewide and national elections have only ever been for Democrats, and scream "but... but... but... He's a republican! I know it!"

In the end, you'd simply look like the ass you are. You go on with your bad self though... go on looking like an ass, blind to the fact that your definition of Democrat isn't the only one, and that the bottom line is... what happens in the fucking voting booth is what defines "Democrat", and what you do is what defines divisive.

[DefenseLawyer]

89. There's a song that they sing when they take to the highway,

a song that they sing when they take to the sea,
a song that they sing of their home in the sky, maybe you can believe it if it helps you to sleep,
but singing works just fine for me.

[Vattel]

92. I guess belief in God, broadly defined,doesn't bother me.

But specific beliefs like "Jesus is God" or "Zeus is the king of the gods" make me wince.

[Arugula Latte]

110. Me too, because deep down we all know that there is no god other than Thor.

[Vattel]

116. Good point.

[TBF]

100. Not that surprising considering that school has turned

into standardized testing central with no room for critical thinking.

Historically people have turned to the concept of "Gods" when they don't understand things ... and there is definitely an anti-science movement in this country.

[Bluenorthwest]

101. It is impossible to know the minds of others, what they claim to 'believe' is of zero importance.

It is only the actions of another which indicate what that person is like, who they are. Faith is invisible, action is visible, so that which is acted upon is defined but that which is just 'believed' is moot to any conversation.
How many of us have heard others promise to love their new spouse for eternity and then divorce within a year? Did they 'believe' they'd remain married? Does it matter? They say 'God has joined and no man can cast asunder' then they call an attorney to negotiate the casting asunder. Do they believe in that God? Maybe, but the actions say otherwise.

[get the red out]

103. Can this help reduce bullying?

Doubt it. But I can only hope.

[FarCenter]

104. Interesting that a smaller % of Independents and Liberals believe in God than do Democrats!

[cbdo2007]

106. My God is donuts. And I believe in them with all of my heart.

Seriously though, the "God" definition can be so broad that the number is closer to 99%.

[smackd]

132. so what

I'm a believer and I vote Democratic.

There should be more us.

[Warren DeMontague]

134. And 88% of them do so while watching porn with "violent" acts, like consensual oral sex.

Amazing what you can do with statistics, if you're kinky enough.

[RBInMaine]

135. MANY more DO NOT BELIEVE in these MYTHOLOGIES but won't admit it in phone interviews. It is on the

increase though. Non-theists are coming out in a big way.

[valerief]

136. Except in 2013 when they don't.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/162803/americans-say-religion-losing-influence.aspx

[Quixote1818]

140. Well, the Bible club at my kids Middle School with over 1,000 kids has only 3 kids

Most people may believe in something but their connection to the Bible is lukewarm.

[AnnieBW]

145. Which God?

I'm a polytheist. I believe in many Gods and Goddesses. So, whenever someone asks me if i believe in "God", I generally ask them, "which one?"

[Sheri]

149. i doubt people are completely honest when they answer questions like this. nt

[99Forever]

151. Magic isn't real.

Regardless of what "90%" of anything might "believe."

[RedCappedBandit]

156. We are all atheists

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
-Richard Dawkins

[Major Nikon]

160. Or in the case of Christianity, 3 gods farther

[hrmjustin]

161. No. Not true.

[Major Nikon]

162. Perhaps

But there's no direct reference to the trinity in the bible and several passages that contradict it. It was a construct of the early Christian church that didn't appear until centuries later. Not all Christians believe in the trinity, and for them it is one, but for the others it seems somewhat ambiguous at best.

[hrmjustin]

163. All Churches that believe in the Trinity say that it is One God in Three Divine Persons.

One God with three natures. It is hard to explain but all Trinitarian Churches are very clear we d not believe in Three Gods.

[Major Nikon]

164. At best most rather than "all"

Last edited Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:01 PM - Edit history (1)

And I'm not convinced it's that clear even with most as you have several biblical passages where Jesus is evidently talking to himself. Then if you want to talk of historical Christian sects there were many who believed in 3, but were condemned for heresy or banished into obscurity.

But you are very correct in that it is hard to explain.

[hrmjustin]

165. Ok point taken about my saying all, but most think it is how I explained it.

As I and you said it is odd and confusing at times.

[Major Nikon]

167. One has to wonder why

The simplest explanation is attempts by the early church to deify Christ. No support for Trinitarianism exists before the first council of Nicaea. They even inserted text into John 5 : 7 (which is a sin), to support the idea.

KJV:

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Greek texts prior to the 4th century prove this was a heretical editing of the scriptures. No other support for Trinitarian doctrine exists in the bible in anything other than the most remote abstract terms.

I realize this is something that is probably not taught in Sunday school. There's a good reason the bible was kept under lock and key for centuries.

So I still assert that most Christians believe in 3 gods, whether or not they realize it.

Just sayin'

[Iggo]

158. .