Pope Francis is naming names

[Enrique]

You might have noticed that many conservatives are in denial about the Pope's economic message. They are trying to make it look like he preaching Compassionate Conservatism.

for example, this attempt in the Daily Caller "why Pope Francis' message is being welcomed by many conservatives". http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/27/why-pope-francis-message-is-being-welcomed-by-many-conservatives/

Unfortunately for them, the Pope is making it impossible for them to do that. He called out "trickle down" by name.

There is absolutely no doubt what that means. It doesn't just mean capitalism. It means one specific interpretation of capitalism. Associated with one particular country. He is calling out American capitalism.

And not just American capitalism, but the interpretation of capitalism closely associated with one party, the GOP.

And this form of capitalism that the Pope is singling out, the GOP not only supports it, they WORSHIP it. They worship Reagan, and the Pope called out Reaganism by name.

And not only do they worship it, but their position is that it is utterly unacceptable NOT to worship it. They make no bones about it. If you listen to RW radio, or if you paid attention during the GOP primary debates, it is absolutely clear.

[spanone]

1. k&r....

[loudsue]

2. But those who VOTE for republicans are too stupid to get it.

As usual.

[Oldtimeralso]

8. K & R

and amen to post #2

[mountain grammy]

9. But it's the POPE. I'm not a Catholic, but the media reports what the Pope says

and he's saying what we've been saying. When the Pope speaks, millions listen. He's impossible to ignore.

[geardaddy]

22. examundo! n/t

[pangaia]

48. Unfortunately, if certain people, and corporations and media, who will remain nameless,

do not agree with him, he will be ignored

[AlbertCat]

68. He's impossible to ignore.

No he's not.



Personally, I'm amused that the Pope utters the most sophomoric statements of altruism and compassion and everyone is astonished and amazed.

It's like "Wow...did you see???? The POPE is acting like a CHRISTIAN or something! This has never happened in the Catholic Church before!!!!!"

Too funny!

Religion is ridiculous.

[mountain grammy]

82. So true, so true, but I do think he's impossible to ignore.

[Hekate]

91. Mountain Grammy, that's what a few of us here have been trying to get across...

.... to anti-papist DUers, as you and I know. A person doesn't have to be Catholic to know the Pope is important in the secular world, and this one is really making waves.

[pscot]

25. They understand the fires of hell

And they're going to burn for whatever eternity they believe in. Ram their gospel down their throats until they choke on it. The rapture is coming to kick their butts. That glow on the horizon is the fires of Hell.

[sendero]

101. Those people..

... don't actually BELIEVE any of that heaven-hell stuff, I can assure you of that. They feign belief to further their worldly interests. Always has been that way and always will be. Religion is a tool to control dumbasses (I'm NOT saying that all religious people are dumbasses so please try to get my point) And it works pretty well.

But I have to say that, and not just the pope, I'm seeing small signs everywhere that this economic malaise we are stuck in is wielding a mortal blow to the "trickle down" economic model. People were willing to believe in it while it seemed to be working, now only the truly delusional think it is working so defectors are popping out of the woodwork.

And that is fine with me.

[pscot]

122. But if religious folk could be convinced

that Capitalism was in fact the work of the Devil, and that hellfire and damnation was imminent because of the way they/we are treating mother Earth, guys like the Kochs and their political minions might find themselves anathematized and thus cut off from the source of much of their political power. Just a thought.

[The Green Manalishi]

145. That is actually pretty much the anti slavery abolitionist argument

Henry Ward Beecher and other abolitionist leaders were coming at it from a theological, rather than a social justice viewpoint (not that the two are mutually exclusive) in an attempt to convince slave owners that their very souls were in danger. Some anecdotal evidence that it had some mild effect but we don't have the kind of demographic data we would like, of courts. But the theological anti slavery argument carried a lot of weight in the north.

[pscot]

147. I'm not a moralist per se

but I do believe that Human affairs have reached such parlous state that any argument that might focus people's attention is justified. Reason seems to be getting us nowhere. Maybe pushing buttons is what it takes. The owners already treat us like rats in a Skinner box.

[erpowers]

42. Oh, They Get It

When I heard what he said, I thought he is going to get a large amount of criticism from the right. Sarah Palin might have seen this coming. That might be why she stated that Pope Francis was too liberal for her taste. Is it at all possible that she got wind of this writing weeks ago?

[pangaia]

49. I doubt it. But other things he has said I am sure have set her undies on fire.

[Quasimodem]

140. I'll believe in the Virgin Birth ...

... before I believe Sarah Palin sustained an insightful cognitive event.

[liberal_at_heart]

79. Our entire government worships Reaganomics, not just republicans.

[IkeRepublican]

88. They "get it" when...

Their windbag cult leaders in the conservative media tell them how to "get it".

[sheshe2]

3. K&R

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

4. Well

Isn't it a conservative commandment that thou shalt not take the name of St. Ronnie in vain?

[WowSeriously]

5. I am almost tempted to become religious and adopt Catholicism as my sect.

But then I realized I arrived at the same conclusions anyway.

Still, this dude is awesome!

[juajen]

77. Their schools are awesome. Thank you Jesuits!

[WowSeriously]

96. Indeed they are.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

97. Jesuits. . .ah yes. The Catholic Church's own version of the forced conversion squad

The ones that told Jews to accept Christ or be tortured and punished.

Thank you for that!

[happyslug]

146. Unconverted Jews and Moslems NEVER came under the jurisdiction of the Church.

For example, the Spanish Inquisition had jurisdiction over Jews and Moslems who had converted to Catholicism, but no jurisdiction over one who never did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

The Spanish Government of the 1400s to the 1700s would force out non converted Jews and Moslem, for they came under the power of the Government, as opposed to those Jews and Moslems who converted to Catholicism, whose conversion made them subject to the Inquisition.

All of this was independent of the Jesuits, much of it BEFORE the Jesuits were founded in 1540.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus

One aspect of the Jesuits was its concentration in NON-Catholic areas. Thus little opportunity for the Jesuits to force conversion of anyone. Other Catholics did that but it was not within the powers of the Jesuits. There were an educated elite group who understood commerce to an extent unknown outside of the Netherlands and London in the 1500s (and the main reason the Jesuits were hated by the Dutch and the English). In the 1700s they were suppress, out side of Russia, as the various kings of Europe wanted to rob them of their wealth. Cathrine the Great protected them till the 1800s when the Jesuits were permitted back into Europe and most of the world.

Just a comment that the Jesuits did little or no torture of anyone. I can NOT say that about the Catholic Church as a whole, but your comment is on the Jesuits.

[cantbeserious]

100. Attended Jesuit High School - Very Progressive

eom

[BainsBane]

6. I'm glad to hear that

I would like to see him clean house in the Church by dealing with the pedohphiles and their protectors.

[pangaia]

51. As much as I hate to say it, patience.

A little, at least, not too much.

[BainsBane]

52. If he does

It would go a long way toward persuading me to go to mass again. As it stands, I just can't.

[pangaia]

54. Wo dong. (I understand- in mandarin.)

[socialist_n_TN]

72. Or Ting da dong........

I hear and understand.

[cer7711]

7. Just Waitin' for Glenn (Mad-as-a-Hatter) Beck to Open His Mouth . . .

. . . about Pope Francis. Any day now. 3, 2, 1 . . .

[Enrique]

12. remember what he said about social justice?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/marchweb-only/20-51.0.html

I beg you, look for the words "social justice" or "economic justice" on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If I'm going to Jeremiah's Wright's church? Yes! Leave your church. Social justice and economic justice. They are code words. If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish. Go alert your bishop and tell them, "Excuse me are you down with this whole social justice thing?" I don't care what the church is. If it's my church, I'm alerting the church authorities: "Excuse me, what's this social justice thing?" And if they say, "Yeah, we're all in that social justice thing," I'm in the wrong place.

[cer7711]

14. Oh Yeah! 'Zactly What I Was Refering To

[BlancheSplanchnik]

20. ugh.. just plain

Ugh. Repulsive

[progressoid]

21. They worship Supply Side Jesus

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html

[rickyhall]

121. I hate to be picky

buy Mesopotamia is Iraq...

just saying...

[Schema Thing]

144. just as the cartoon indicates.

[mountain grammy]

10. K & R

[trof]

11. Next: KICKING ASS and TAKING NAMES! SKITTLES?

[spinbaby]

13. I love this man!

If I had any religious inclination, I'd join his church.

[QuestForSense]

15. Rush is already calling him a Marxist

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/27/rush_limbaugh_the_pope_sounds_like_a_marxist/

[Sheepshank]

16. Good idea alientaing another voting block, women, minorities, gay persons and now Catholics

......go ahead, Rush. It's an amazing plan you have going there.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. I know a couple of women who listen to scumbag obsessively

And they deny that he's ever said anything sexist!!

I don't know... *shakes head sadly*.... I just don't get how people think this way.

[Quasimodem]

141. Eventually Rush will become leader of the Hate Everyone Club.

You will even have to hate yourself* to be a member.


* This is usually the most logical part of their belief system.

[pangaia]

53. Strange, anyone who actually cares about human beings is labled a Marxist,

or Socialist, or Kenyan, or....

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

102. Anyone who calls either Pope Francis or Obama a Marxist

Either is wholly ignorant of Marxism or else is lying through his or her teeth. Those are the only choices.

On a now-defunct talkboard, there was a man who said that Obama was simultaneously a Marxist, a socialist, a fascist and an anarchist. Ignoring the simple fact that Obama is not a member of any of those groups, three of the four are mutually exclusive. I keep saying that ignorance is prized by American conservatives (how else can one explain the popularity of Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann or George W. Bush), and along came this man to give support to my statement.

[pangaia]

120. Wait, I thought Obama was a Marxist Nazi???

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

124. I'm sure you have come across conservatives saying that the Nazis were socialists.

Because of the NSDAP party name. When I hear that nonsense, I reply that they must believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy. And the German Democratic Republic was also a democracy. It's the same argument.

[pangaia]

126. Exactly.

And the PRC is run by the people.
PS-- My ex wife is Chinese and I LOVE the people, food, culture, history, language(s)..

[calimary]

64. Welcome to DU, QuestForSense!

Glad you're here! Now there's one way to simplify this one. If limbaugh's against it, it must be a good thing! Whatever limbaugh likes I automatically know to despise. And if he badmouths it, I know it has to make sense, or be ethical, or moral, or fair, or just, or be rooted in the real world.

[Vietnameravet]

18. Ha Ha ha ha The pope is a marxist???

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/27/rush_limbaugh_the_pope_sounds_like_a_marxist/

Keep it up Rush..keep it up!

[Vashta Nerada]

19. Yay. More love for a homophobic Pope.

Let's see three more threads showing love for him.

[eqfan592]

23. Yeah, this is getting insane.

As much as I love seeing him make other conservatives squirm, he's still a bigot. I view this more as infighting among conservatives.

[Vashta Nerada]

27. It just boggles my mind that people here actually love this guy.

It's making me physically sick.

[eqfan592]

39. A gay person who finds the gushing support for an anti gay bigot on DU disgusting...

...is a right wing troll? What's that quote about being too stupid to insult, again? It slipped my mind...

[SidDithers]

41. +1...nt

Sid

[Vashta Nerada]

58. I'm not gay.

I am bisexual, however.

But thank you for that comment and the support.

[eqfan592]

87. Ah, my mistake!!!

Sorry about that, and you're completely welcome!!

[joshcryer]

95. +1

[joeglow3]

44. People can multi task

I don't hate everyone who disagrees with me on a single issue. If he moves the country and the world in the right direction economically speaking, I can't find fault in that.

[eqfan592]

45. Way to belittle bigotry towards gays and women.

multitasking? FFS....

[joeglow3]

47. Tell that to the billions starving

They might be happy with the end result. But fuck them all, right?

[eqfan592]

50. You realize that's an argument that cuts both ways, right?

And you also realize the churches stance on abortion and contraception, as well as its bigotry, has had a negative impact on the poor as well, right?

[joeglow3]

60. I never voiced support for their views on those.

But that doesn't preclude me from recognizing the benefit for the poor of this.

[eqfan592]

66. And I never voiced opposition to his support for the poor.

...but by itself it's not enough to just brush aside all of his reprehensible views on things like gay rights. I view him the same way as a republican that saw the light on economic issues but was still a staunch social conservative.

[zeemike]

62. And you do realize that dividing is how we are conquered right?

So go ahead, when we finally have the most powerful religious leader that supports progressive economic issues throw him under the buss because he is not pure enough for you....and see who stands up to take his place...and when none do then complain that religious people don't support progressives.

And right when we have someone who can divide the conservatives and split them.

[eqfan592]

65. Oh what bullshit.

Accusations of "purity" have become new DU code word for it being acceptable to be bigoted towards gays. Would you be nearly so forgiving if the pope called interracial marriage an abomination? I doubt it.

[zeemike]

67. Well have it your way then.

See code words in everything and don't accept help from the pope for progressives causes.

[Bluenorthwest]

109. Help like suing to avoid covering contraception under ACA? Like opposing choice?

Help like delivering diatribes against equality for gay people?
Why should we help him in his agenda to cover up crimes by clerics against children, to place blame and to attack gay people and to end a woman's right to reproductive choice. Are those things progressive in your mind?
Tell me when the Pope does something other than talk, when there is justice for the victims of his peers, when he stops attacking good gay people to provide cover for his criminal rapist peers. When he stops claiming women are not equal to men.

[zeemike]

111. The Pope sued over contraceptives?

And did all of that?
Well that is news to me...I guess he should STFU then...we don't need those Catholics to vote for Democrats...let them vote for the GOP.

[WCLinolVir]

73. I completely agree. It boggles my mind that the pope can elicit praise,

while he still protects child molesters, and supports a stance against gays, bis etc..
It is sad. I too want to like him, but find his silence monstrous.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

112. It boggles my mind that this Pope

Who has specifically said that he refuses to judge gays, has called for greater participation by women in Church governance, and does not "protect child molesters" can be called a bigot. It is sad.

[NYC Liberal]

115. He doesn't "judge" us because he thinks we have a

genetic disorder, so we can't help it. How kind of him!

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

118. Can you quote him saying that? n/t

[NYC Liberal]

131. It's part of the Church catechism

Francis has not changed the catechism and he supports it.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

"Not judging" has been the church teAching for years.

[skepticscott]

125. He has said that he fully supports

RCC teaching and doctrine regarding gays, gay priests and same-sex marriage. That's bigotry in any decent person's book. His saying that he personally refuses to "judge gays" is just meaningless PR crap, since he leads and fully supports an organization that does.

[TheKentuckian]

130. Accusations of purity most often come associated with intolerance of economic feudalism

Closely followed by intolerance for warmongering imperialism but maybe I have that backward.

There is no comparison to the priority and level of progress on fairness versus poverty and workers rights.

I hear what you are saying and no doubt there is merit but there is a level of stridently that almost feels like all other issues must be made secondary to the point of exclusion.

We are losing huge in the arena where this Pope is speaking out, far beyond where even most Democrats are willing to go, this isn't any infighting between conservatives, we are talking about the gulf between the haves and have not here. Who starves, who is homeless, who is sick and is left to sufrer, who has dreams never fulfilled, who has opportunity, who knows safety.

It is about will the many have choices and opportunities, not just theoretical legal standing regardless of race, orientation, gender, religious background or what have you.

Economics is not a check on an issues sheet, it is nearly all pervasive and impacts all types of folks.

To be blunt, I also think it is possible you aren't being fair and forthright because I bet you'd take, encourage, and cheer help for your priorities from the most right wing corners.

[treestar]

71. There are gay Catholics though

Not everyone looks at these things as either/or.

[Cleita]

76. A large part of the clergy are gay and open about it.

This is something the Catholic bashers don't acknowledge.

[MFrohike]

85. I don't know about open

I do know that if you're never met a gay priest, you're either not paying attention or you haven't gone to mass much at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

106. that is simply not true, that a large number of RCC clerics are openly gay.

I challenge you to support that assertion with any form of citation, if you can't you should retract publically, and you can't because it is not true, so you won't.

[Cleita]

114. The Fransican priest to the New York firefighters who died on 9/11 was openly gay.

I did a post on it when all the Catholic bashing started here. It's in the archives with links and photo. In my line of work I have to work holidays so I'm on a mobile device and can't post links right now. Also, I went to Catholic all girls boarding schools back in the fifties. Our chaplain was an openly gay man. The diocese had assigned him there because parishioners had complained about him being openly gay. But I know that's not what you want. There are others where there is documentation and you can look for them on google or wait until I can get back to you and spoon feed them to you.

[Cleita]

129. Here's another, Father Gary.

Loads of Google on him:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=fathergary.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

From his blog:

http://fathergary.com/



That's pretty openly gay in my mind.

Here's another:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=128363

Of course I have anecdotal stories, of gay priests and nuns I knew from Catholic school. My step daughter went to a coed Catholic school and told me the brothers, who taught the boys were mostly gay and not hiding it. But I know you will call me a liar about this because you know me and my background so well.

I will not demand an apology or retraction of your mistaken notion because I'm not a fascist. I hope you have a good and happy Thanksgiving. This day is not made for hatred but different cultures getting together and putting aside their differences to celebrate what good fortune we may have.

[liberal_at_heart]

81. You don't have to, but we are free to like him if we want. I don't give a damn what you

think about how I feel about him. He is changing things for the better. My husband and son are disabled and my daughter is bisexual. I respect his views on economics, the poor, the disabled, the sick, and I admire that he stated that it is not up to him to judge if someone is gay. Should he go further? Should he change his views even more than he has? Of course he should. And we should put pressure on him to do so. But you have to remember not even Obama was for gay marriage just a few short years ago. Neither were the Clintons. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I can respect his views on certain things and criticize the fact that his views have not changed enough.

[scarletwoman]

83. Well said! (nt)

[eqfan592]

89. Obama never said gay marriage was an abomination.

And if you expect me to believe you'd be so forgiving if his bigotry was racial in origin, you're living in a fantasy land. You're free to like whoever you damn well please, just as we are free to voice our disgust over it.

[NBachers]

93. Thank you, liberal_at_heart

It's not just the conservative heads that are detonating.

[eqfan592]

105. Liberal heads aren't "detonating" either, at least not for the reason you imply.

I think it's fantastic he wants to help the poor, but only to degree because that's what he's SUPPOSED to do. But does that mean I plan on gushing on and on with praise, with maybe a bare mention of a couple of "things" I disagree with him on? Hell no!!

He's still a hardcore social conservative at heart. Telling Catholics not to spend as much time worrying about some issues is NOT the same as changing the view point of the church on those issues.

If a racist republican leader came out and said the same things, I promise you the reaction would not be the same here as it had been with the pope. It has underscored the fact that some progressives are ok with a certain level of bigotry towards gays (hell, I've seen some actually try to actively excuse it!!!) so long as they are thrown a bone or two in other areas.

[Vashta Nerada]

135. Who cares about gays though?

He helps the poor in photo ops and condemns capitalism. We should be gushing over a religious leader for doing his job!!!!

[Bluenorthwest]

108. You owe it to your daughter to inform yourself about what Francis actually said.

He did not say he does not judge gay people, he said if a person is celebate and a priest and gay he would not judge that, for there is no sexual activity.
Francis has called same sex marriage 'an attack on God's plan that comes from the author of evil'. If your daughter marries, it was Satan's doings, do you agree or disagree?
He has also said that gay people being allowed to be parents is a form of discrimination against children. If your daughter wanted kids, that would be discrimiation against those kids. Do you agree or disagree?
In Argentian, his home country, the President said Francis' words against gay people were 'Medival and suggestive of the Inquistion'. Francis was a full time fire breathing opponent of any form of rights for people such as your daughter and myself. Do you also oppose our rights? If not, why are you siding with a man such as Francis?

[Vashta Nerada]

132. Thank you for making sense.

If the poster has a bisexual daughter, he/she isn't showing her any respect by liking a guy who absolutely condemns her to hell.

[Last Stand]

113. Yup. Hasn't been a lot to cheer about from the Catholic church in recent decades.

This guy gives me hope. Not perfect, but so good and so vocal about it in so many areas. As long as he continues to outwardly resist and reject the pull of hate and oppression, I think his position on gays can evolve as well.

[Cleita]

127. Stop making so much sense.

In fact conservative factions in the three main Abrahamic religions have all condemned gays. Why is only the Catholic religion bashed for this? Yet gays have participated as religious leaders in at least two I have known about. I have known gay priests and nuns going to Catholic school and one of many gay men I met, who were friends with my gay cousin, was a rabbi.

[Vashta Nerada]

134. Cool story.

[Vashta Nerada]

133. Thank you for not giving a damn about the LGBT community.

Are you sure you belong here?

FYI, every religious leader should be against capitalism. So...what?

[liberal_at_heart]

148. Don't even claim to know anything about me. My daughter is bi. That does not mean I have

to reject everything the Pope does. My husband and son are disabled. Am I just suppose to denounce what he is doing for the disabled because he hasn't fully embraced homosexuality yet? You don't get to tell me who I can support and you don't get to tell me I don't give a damn about the LGBT community.

[Vashta Nerada]

150. You obviously don't respect it.

You don't respect the LGBT community if you keep showing admiration to a guy who preaches gay marriage is an abomination.

[liberal_at_heart]

151. I don't give a damn what you think about me.

[Vashta Nerada]

153. Well good for you.

Very Christ-like of you.

[skepticscott]

143. You're assuming that his "views" have sincerely changed

And that he's not just playing a phony PR game.

And sorry, but nothing that matters has changed for the better. It's all just staged show and flash, for the benefit of a gullible, fawning media and liberal Catholics who need to hear it.

[G_j]

104. Is it him personally, or the church in general

that you are referring to?

[Whisp]

123. Change has to start somewhere

and it will not happen all at once no matter how much we want it.

I was/is one of the loudest critics of Popisms and Religions, but this guy seems to be different - he does not seem to be like all the rest.

Just like Obama can't change the way how the world unfairly works and stop all the Kochs from being Kochs and stop all the corruption and inequalities he is setting a path for the next President to continue changing things.

Steps is all we can realistically have.

[Vashta Nerada]

136. What change?

He's doing his job. He's supposed to oppose capitalism as a religious leader. Ratz made the same speech in 2010.

[Gman]

24. Since Francis alludes to killing the spirit of the poor

in violation of the 6th commandment, I'd like to see him deny communion to vulture capitalists.

[Cleita]

78. What vulture capitalists take communion?

However, since this Pope is trying to revive the spirit of the New Testament Jesus, the one who ministered to the social outcasts of his society, I don't think he would refuse communion to anyone.

[Gman]

110. I'm sure none of them have a guilty conscience about what they do

Once they understand while likely not agreeing, they should be denied.

[Kingofalldems]

26. This is one of many reasons Catholicism is far different

than fundamentalist Christianity.

[maindawg]

28. he has a knack for the obvious

For some weird reason he isn't a knuckle dragging old school former nazi child raping horndog in a white robe. Surely they made some kind of mistake and the white smoke was all an error or something. The pope is a liberal ? Its bizzarro land stuff, but the church has reformed itself before. I mean, they do know, deep down in the souls they hold so dear, that there is no magic kingdom where you live forever. Its absurd. They are a business. Their consumer demographic has to be achievable. Without numbers, the church does not exist.

[eqfan592]

30. The pope is far from a liberal.

He's far too socially conservative to try and fit that label.

[SidDithers]

61. Yup...

Sid

[DisgustipatedinCA]

116. When SidDithers and Rush Limbaugh hate the Pope, I know he's doing something right.

[SidDithers]

117. When alleged progressives worship an anti-gay bigot...

it makes me wonder how progressive they really are.

Sid

[LiberalLovinLug]

138. Its called...

Choosing your battles

[MellowDem]

152. I won't battle the Pope when he says help the poor...

But I won't praise him to high heavens or ally with him either. The man is a bigot, and his reasoning for helping the poor is that god wants him to. Such a moral dunce is a liability to any cause.

[randr]

29. This Pope may just snap these poor sheep back to their senses

A real compassionate leader instead of his "Blueness", the Rush.

[Aerows]

31. He scares the dickens

out of the ones that Jesus called the Pharisees, and the money-changers.

And he is absolutely right, too.

[Vietnameravet]

33. This is huge for us folks

I am not religious but I do recognize the power of this man and we should reach out in return...

[woo me with science]

34. K&R

[ancianita]

35. Oh, I thought you meant he was naming names of LIVE people. Well, isn't this safe.

Kinda like admitting that Galileo was right a liiittle bit too late.

[SidDithers]

36. I thought he was naming the names of pedophile priests...nt

Sid

[ancianita]

37. Heh heh...

I thought he'd be releasing the files.

[sabrina 1]

86. Why would you have thought that? Are you accusing him of a crime, and if so, what crime?

[ancianita]

92. No, you misunderstand. It was a joke.

[allan01]

38. re:Pope Francis is naming names

i call us capitalisim by its real name . vulture capitalisim.

[Dustlawyer]

40. Bottom line: Compared to what you expected, this Pope turned out to actually give a shit

about a lot of the things we care about. Hopefully, as he gets the big, cumbersome church turned around, he could change the church's position on gays and women. Whatever the motivation, the church has just radically changed for the better. There is also the danger of coming in and making wholesale, radical departures from accepted practice in too many areas at once. Myself, I believe that the Cardinals consciously decided they needed someone who could turn the tide and bring people to the church. They knew that this Pope was the guy to do it for them. He always believed the things that he has been saying, I do not believe it is an act.
I am happy that the church is changing with the times finally. My hope is for this Pope to keep on pleasantly surprising us.

[mrsadm]

75. Hear hear!

[chuckstevens]

43. NO COMMUNION FOR LAISSEZ-FAIRE REPUBLICANS!

Ever notice how some Republipukes scream that Pro-Choice Democrats shouldn't be allowed to receive communion? Well what about the Trickle down Republicans? They're going against the Pope's words!

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

46. Except that he's not.

And that's the problem. We can project his wonderful message onto those who we know who are his targets. But until he actually names names and defines policies, well, then we wait in Limbo, and wait for something ex cathedra (or something at least very definitive).

[Gothmog]

55. The Pope's comments on trickle down economics were great

The concept of supply side economics\trickle down economics have always pestered me. These concepts do not work in the real world. Tax cuts for the rich failed for both Reagan and bush Jr. Facts and history do not matter to the idiots who believe in these concepts. The Pope did a good job of debunking these concepts

[ananda]

56. I really like this pope's message on economics and the poor.

But he still has a ways to go on speaking out for full human rights for everyone,
including women and gays.

[get the red out]

57. I respect this man

I don't agree with him on many things, but on economics we fully agree. I respect him for calling these evils out by name.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

59. It wouldn't surprise me one bit

if Time names him "Person of the Year."

[CFLDem]

63. A much better choice than Miley.

[MisterP]

69. Rutilio Grande, Alfonso Navarro, Ernesto Barrera, Octavio Ortiz, Rafael Palacios, Napoleón Macías,

Ita Ford, Maura Clarke, Dorothy Kazel, Jean Donovan, Óscar Romero, James Carney, Ignacio Martín-Baró, Joaquín López y López, Juan Ramón Moreno, Segundo Montes, Ignacio Ellacuría, Amando López

[Shankapotomus]

70. The Obama administration

should now invite the Pope over for a grand tour and coversation about the damage Republicans and corporations are trying to inflict on Americans and the world.

Really highlight and give the Pope an opportunity to speak directly to the American people about his reservations toward unfettered capitalism, if you know what I mean.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

74. So much easier to twist the meaning of the dead...

The living tend to untwist.

[ReRe]

80. K&R

Your last paragraph sounds allot like "Zombie Capitalism." Set some time aside and go listen to this conversation between Bill Moyers and Henry Giroux which you probably missed a couple days ago. It's definitely worth your time, and you will tell me so after you've listened to it. It's about 45 minutes long:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017161094

[PatrynXX]

84. Except Reagan today would be too left wing for the Tea Party

so they basically worship a god called Reagan not the actual person. Like eating Jimmy Dean Sausage who 1. never got any money for it and 2. is dead now

[IkeRepublican]

90. Folks, don't think for a second the religious will be offended at the wingnuts bashing the Pope

There might be a few up in New England who might, but they'll be fully ignored. The remainder of the country's religious make up today is following the conservative pundit media machine as the gospel. Proof of this is how pastors echo the right wing machine. People who live in Republican hotbeds know this unfortunate thing only too well.

[upi402]

94. Good points

Welcome to DU!

[harun]

98. Problem is the Protestants in the US

and they were already against the Catholic Church.

[Enthusiast]

99. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch.....nt

[Bluenorthwest]

103. Of course Francis did not use the name 'Reagan' at all, because he and Reagan agree

about those pesky gays, not to mention their devoted religious agreement as opponents of reproductive choice.
I'll put the OP down as another who does not mind an anti gay anti choice message if the costumes are good.

[Vashta Nerada]

137. I hate it when those pesky facts get in the way.

+1000 for your post

[rhett o rick]

107. What I find interesting about this thread is that some here that otherwise would support

the best of evils when choosing a president, for example, are having a hard time understanding that the same phenomena applies here. I havent come to grips with the "Best of Evils" theory but find it interesting to see some here that embrace it for some instances, then argue against it in others.

I would love to see a good discussion on this theory.

[raouldukelives]

156. Interesting and very ture.

Myself I am just glad to see someone in some sort of power position finally speaking out about the very evil and very anti-liberal world of Wall St. Anyone who supports it supports so many horrible acts in their own name and only for their own financial benefit at the expense of every thing a liberal is supposed to clamor for. I can think of no worse damage one could do to the fundamentals of progressive and liberal ideals than by support & solidarity with Wall St. Anyone with money in the markets may as well vote for Rand Paul. They are already doing far more damage than any further disgrace a vote would cause.

[flamingdem]

119. Me and the Pope

buds even if I'm an ateo.

[BlueStreak]

128. This Pope makes me want to be a Catholic -- and I'm an atheist

While I admire the courageous stands this man has taken on many contemporary issues, I would point out that he does have a constituency. He is from the developing world. From the perspective of the business enterprise called the Catholic Church, the developed world has been a big loser for them the past 20 years with all the damned pedophiles costing them a fortune. Their growth opportunity is in the developing world.

As nations advance in education, they become less and less religious, so this really means that you have to catch the less educated nations if you want to expand the religion.

[colsohlibgal]

139. Pope Frank Rocks

Truth to power from the Vatican, love it. I only worry he'll get bumped off quickly like the last pope who was anything like him.

[WCGreen]

142. A good chunck of these "chrsitians" worship money and will do anything to get it

and then hoard it...

[MellowDem]

149. Francis, as a bigot, has little to no credibility "naming names" nt

[ZombieHorde]

154. The RCC is against abortion, yet many Catholics are very strong supporters of abortion.

I doubt many conservative Catholics will change their minds to match official RCC stances, just like liberal Catholics don't change their minds to match official RCC stances.

[Cleita]

155. Also, the Church is officially against birth control but very few

don't do it as well as the clergy who happily forgive it in confession and assign a Hail Mary for penance.

[Bluenorthwest]

158. Which makes the hypocrisy worse, not better. 'We don't really believe it, but we let our

attack dogs go after gay people over shit we don't believe'.
Barf on any system of belief the allows such behavior. Barf.

[Vashta Nerada]

157. Pope Benedict said the same damn thing.

On New Year's Day, 2013:
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/01/01-4

Wrote a book about being anti-capitalist:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Crisis-Global-Capitalism-Encyclical-ebook/dp/B0068M97EE

He also spoke out against Capitalism in 2007:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/14/world/americas/14pope.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Why no love for Ratz? He held the same views as Francis on Capitalism, homosexuals, women, and access to contraception. He just did it wearing fabulous shoes.