General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)That is indeed government at it's finest, that is its role. I still mourn this man.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)if you're unlucky enough to cross paths with an unhinged Palestinian nationalist with a gun. (Which is what actually happened.)
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)RFK was shot by a nut with a gun (who happened to be an unhinged Palestinian nationalist who objected to RFK's support of Isreal).
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Wiuld have shot him if he wasn't an unhinged Palestinian nationalist..... guns don't turn people into nuts...
Ace Acme
(1,464 posts)... (says the coroner). All of the bullets that hit RFK came from behind.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)but RFK was killed by a 9mm sized projectile.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Just making an observation.
merrily
(45,251 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)a shooter that night, was in front of Kennedy and not closer than six feet.
Rex
(65,616 posts)well his, his brother, Dr. King and Malcolm Little. At least that is what I hear the baby boomers say and I believe them.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Many finally came to know and realize knew that murdering their political opponents was now an accepted tactic and would be freely used by those that stood to gain the most from it.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)keep fighting to protect what we had. And that is what we are still doing.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Dad is a devout Kennedy backer from when Jack first ran for office.
He sent JFK five dollars for his senate campaign, (Dad only made $25 a week back then) and in return received his picture, signed by John F. Kennedy himself, and a letter personally thanking my father for the donation.
That picture and letter has hung in a place of honor in every home my father has had.
After John was murdered, he backed Bobby with all his heart, and it damn near killed my father when they murdered him, too.
Anyway, we always talk politics after dinner over tea, and Dad said that killing Bobby was the best way to stop us from ever finding out who killed his brother, and he said when it happened he finally realized that this nation was not so much different from any other nation where assassination of your political opponents is accepted practice to further your agenda.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)not happening so much now but then it was often the only way to take over the government. I remember being glad we had regular elections. So much for Democracy!
Ace Acme
(1,464 posts)He would have ended the Vietnam war, and reopened the JFK investigations.
RFK had to die and George Wallace had to be paralyzed by a bullet--both those had to happen if Nixon was to get into the White House.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)A viable political figure, and of riding in small planes.
JFK Jr - his plane goes down, with GPS signalling device. The local airport staffers in Cape Cod, (where John Jr, his wife and sister-in-law were to have landed), told other Kennedy family members that there was no flight plan for the plane, and they shouldn't expect him. (There was a flight plan.)
No one would go looking for that plane. No One! Then the next morning, Teddy called Bill Clinton at the WH, 7Am EST, and Bill got the Coast Guard involved.
However, they spent hours roaming around the ocean. Pilots on planes searching for JFK's Jr's plane were diverted far from the route the plane had been on. And remember - this was a decent and fully equipped aircraft, even equipped with a GPS signal!
Finally the plane was found, basically on the coast, on an approach to the airport.
Less than a decade later, Paul Wellstone's fully equipped plane, staffed by not one but two pilots, went down, right outside the approach to the Everett MN airfield where that plane was expected to land.
Although the weather was in the high thirties, with some light rain, the weather was presenting so little of a problem that the airfield manager got into his plane and went out looking for Wellstone's craft.
However, CIA-news media Talking Head, Wolf Blitzer (Who just happened to be in the area!) ran out onto the airfield and grabbed the microphone out of the hands of the local radio reporter, as she was explaining to the audience that weather was not a factor. Blitzer bellowed into that mike that the weather had brought the plane down.
The plane burned from the time after it crashed, around 11:15 Am, until almost 6Pm. I have shown the NTSB's charts and analysis to a friend who was an excellent airplane pilot - he was amazed that such an aircraft burned so long.
Remember, this plane had been in radio contact with the airport at the time it went down. But the air field staff lost track of it two minutes or so before it crashed. If weather was a factor, then the radio contact would not have been affected. If a flock of birds hit the plane's engine, then radio communication would not have been affected.
At the time of the crash, microwave power anomalies serious enough to affect at least one resident's garage door were reported. Prior to the crash, October 2003, many police departments were starting to have microwave transmitter capabilities of affecting speeding cars. It is plausible that our CIA and black op people have the ability to target small air crafts with microwave pulses, that zap out the electronics and send the plane into a tailspin.
dflprincess
(28,075 posts)and went down 2 miles from the airport there. (I don't believe there is an Everett, MN (though there is a lake by that name.).
When I was watching the coverage that afternoon either CNN or CBS broadcast a live interview with a local who swore he saw a flash from the back of the plane. It was the one interview I did not see replayed that day.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)You are right. However I am so very dyslexic, and once I think of something being named something, the new information only sticks so long.
Also, your report on a resident who saw a flash at the back of the end of the plane, very interesting. And of course, it wouldn't be played again.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Metaphorically speaking, they had us on the ropes by then, but that was the knockout punch.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)because he had, while in Mecca, seen muslims of all shades of the skin pigment rainbow praying together with no discord among them and knew that hating because of skin color was wrong, in this case the 'whitedevil, preached by black muslim, elijah muhammad. He was gaining power with this line of thinking and I do feel that is why he was killed by elijah muhammad. That whole decade had hammer blow after hammer blow against people who tried to get us together as americans. Look where we are now. More racial discord and poverty than ever. Tea nazis and RW idiots standing in the way of true progress. Sad indeed that money trumps racial harmony and financial parity. But then again that dog eat dog capitalism for you.
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)the Democratic party stood up for the working and middle classes in this country.
loudsue
(14,087 posts)were successful. The DLC got all the corporate funding.
[font size=5]
The DLC New Team
[/font]
(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)
loudsue
(14,087 posts)Asshole that he is, and the one Obama claimed was his mentor.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)His death was a terrible blow, and as someone said here, one in a series of what seemed relentless blows.
Changing the status quo will never be easy. But we need to keep on fighting.
merrily
(45,251 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)hue
(4,949 posts)rustbeltvoice
(430 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 2, 2013, 03:57 PM - Edit history (1)
from an old post of mine:Tuesday, October 9, 2007
The Day Bobby Died
The day Bobby died, 6 June 1968, was an extremely tragic moment for America and, therefore, the world. Thomas Carlyle had a theory of history, that, history was shaped by the great men and their actions. No more momentous turning point of change, has there been in my lifetime, than, that which, occurred in the last generation, that of the death of Robert Francis Kennedy.
For one of many things, Bobby would have defeated Nixon. Life without Nixon, would have brought the Vietnam war to an end, years and lives earlier. The US would have enjoyed a better place in the eyes of the world and a better economy. The social problems that eat away at this country would have been lessened by great degrees. The Republican hegemony would not have happened. Bobby would have been president for eight years.
No Nixon, would have meant that G.H.W. Bush would have been sent to obscurity and his progeny would not have beleaguered the world. The current war would not be! Kennedy as president would have made Latin America a more peaceful and successful place. Oscar Romero would have lived and there would have been no Iran-contragate, for there would have been less need of revolt and bloodshed and the criminality and the extra-constitutionality of Watergate would not have been precedents for further erosion of law and justice.
One doubts that Ronald Reagan would have been able to mount a successful campaign in 1976. The Republican desire for the revenge for the failed Nixon would not have existed. The Iran situation would have been different and could not have been exploited by Casey for Reagan, as it was in 1980, and, that alone, gave him victory.
The greed of the Reagan-Bush minions would have been kept in check. Communism would have fell in 1989 anyhow, for Reagan and the role of the US were peripheral and minor and just economically costly.
The cause of the working man and the minorities would have advanced and without the ugly resistance caused by the Republicans, their corporate sponsors and ignorant followers. In such an environment NAFTA would not have come, Walmart would not have been able to get away with its tricks. Disparities in income would reflect western Europe and not the third world.
What sort of Republicans would there have been? So much of their apparatus would have been quashed. Would they have been a respectable and moderate party instead of the fascists, that, they are?
With the death of Bobby, the Catholic moment of US history and culture failed to come. The social and religious emphasis of Cesar Chavez, Thomas Merton, Dorothy Day and the martyred religious of Latin America [in fact the US aided their assassins and trained some of them] did not advance here, neither has the views of the last or current pontiff. The Sermon on the Mount has a very small audience since that black, black day.
Don McLean sang of the day the music died in '59* in the aeroplane crash that took the lives of Buddy Holly and his companions. It was more than bad news on the doorstep, the day democracy died, when the bullets took the life of Bobby.
"Few men are willing to brave the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence." -- spoken 6 June 1966 Capetown
"Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." -- from his last speech
______________________
*date corrected
Stainless
(718 posts)And Buddy Holly died in 1959 not "57". The USA has taken a sharp right turn and progressivism and liberalism have taken a beating. Religious dogma is the problem not the solution.
Fortinbras Armstrong
(4,473 posts)Your statement about it causing the Dark Ages is false.
Moreover, "Dark Ages" is a specifically British usage, referring to the period between the evacuation of the Roman army from Britain in 406 and the Norman Conquest in 1066. In France, the period up to about 1000 is designated Haut Moyen Âge, which is succeeded by the Bas Moyen Âge of 1000-1500. Most confusingly, the Germans apply Hochmittelalter to the 11th-13th centuries, but have it preceded by a Frühmittelalter of ca. 500-1000 and followed by a Spätmittelalter of 13th-15th centuries.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And I spent the holiday listening to bitching about O-bama endlessly...then last night they started yapping about wiping MA off the map, so that any trace of "Kennedy" would be gone.
WTF is wrong with people.
rustbeltvoice
(430 posts)Tom Lehrer used to write and perform his political folk song parodies, and on occasion he pointed out Massachusetts' superiority, the only state with three US senators. Bobby Kennedy represented New York state at the time.
Yes, i remember now, and years ago, at work how some people absolutely reveled in their revile for anything Kennedy. Some were Republicans, but i worked labor, most were anti-Catholic bigots of some kind, and of course some had the unhappy co-incidence of being both; and after Reagan, i have encountered many Catholics that hate the Kennedys, of course they are all Republicans.
When i grew up, many of the people like myself, would make the point, "the Democrats care about the poor, and the Democrats care about labor". The response i often got, was "Republicans care about all Americans", or something similar. Now, we so often hear disparaging remarks against the very existence of Massachusetts, and California especially. Of course, there are Democrats who make similar remarks against groups, creeds, or locations of people; but the candidates do not run on the point.
underpants
(182,788 posts)And I get it now- O'Reilly had a 5 minute segment on his show raving about liberal Massachusetts then had Scott Brown (who was elected there no less) to confirm how horribly liberal Mass is.
I see a pre-writing of history to damn Obamacare success before it happens.
Btw I was at my folks so Fox News is always in the channel rotation.
ancianita
(36,036 posts)people who believe it. The OP idea can be suppressed, but gun users will never kill off ideas.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)doesn't sound like it to me
Ace Acme
(1,464 posts)... was an aggressive Cold Warrior who got us into Vietnam.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Just as Carter got us involved in Afghanistan.
Since both events happened towards the end of the president's time in office they're usually erroneously attributed to the next guy (Johnson and Reagan, respectively.)
It applies even with more recent presidencies - Ask 100 people "who got us involved in Somalia?" and i'll bet over half will answer with "Bill Clinton," since Bush dumped us in that mess after he lost the election.
Ace Acme
(1,464 posts)In September 1960, the Communist Party of North Vietnam called for the liberation of the south from American imperialism.
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/pent11.htm
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Most people measure from the "troops on the ground" (I grit my teeth at that term) phase, starting in 1961. But, you're right, we got started in the mess seven years prior to that.
ailsagirl
(22,896 posts)It was official. Then, what-do-you-know, when LBJ took office, that plan was quietly dropped.
Interesting.