Five Arguments for American-Made Buses & How ‘The Atlantic Cities’ Got It Wrong

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.laane.org/capitalandmain/five-arguments-for-american-made-buses-and-how-the-atlantic-cities-got-it-wrong/


A Foothill Transit Proterra Ecoliner

By Rachele Huennekens
December 13, 2013 in Labor & Economy

As a member of the Jobs to Move America coalition, I was more than a little dumbfounded to read a blog post by Brandon Fuller promoting a study authored by three economists from UCLA and Cornell University that criticizes taxpayer investment in American-made buses. Fuller’s post appeared on The Atlantic‘s Cities website, which also tweeted: “@AtlanticCities: Subsidies require cities to buy American-made buses. Change that, and bus services can be cheaper”

Huh? The Jobs to Move America campaign offers a real-life rebuttal to the study’s theoretical arguments against American-made buses. Here are five reasons Fuller and the research he embraces are wrong:

1) The best use of American taxpayers’ money is buses Made in America.

Fuller’s argument that sending taxpayer dollars overseas is a better investment than buying American-made buses simply does not add up. Why? Because approximately $5.4 billion of Americans’ federal tax dollars are invested annually in buses and rail cars for public transit systems. Undoubtedly, the wisest use of taxpayer funds is to bring direct benefits to the taxpayers themselves – by improving our transit systems, boosting our local economies and creating family-supporting job opportunities.

During Jobs to Move America’s pilot project, community groups advocated to attach good jobs and meaningful opportunities for American workers to a Los Angeles Metropolitan Transportation Authority contract for 550 clean‐fuel buses. LA Metro awarded the $305 million contract to New Flyer Industries, which agreed to hire 50 workers and build a new service and assembly center in the Los Angeles area, and add 150 new jobs to its Minnesota factory. Surely, this was a better investment of millions of Angelenos’ tax dollars, than awarding a contract where most manufacturing work would be done outside the U.S.

FULL story at link.

(Rachele Huennekens is the National Communications Specialist for Jobs to Move America.)

[Mopar151]

1. Import snobs

How many fools have you run into that say "I'll never buy an American car!" ? There are legions - including quite a few here - willing to pay a $5K premium on a $15K car 'cuz it's a Toyota, regardless of the actual merits of the car.

[Demo_Chris]

3. Two points:

1. The merits are objectively real and can be seen in the resale value.

2. Most of the foreign cars like Honda and Toyota are actually made here, while all too many "American" cars are made overseas. I'd rather buy a Honda made in Texas than a Ford made in Mexico -- particularly when the Honda is a better vehicle.

[Mopar151]

4. Two points:

According to my sources in the car biz, the merits ain't all that real, and that $5K cited is - comes from folks who buy/process hundreds - even thousands of cars.

Canada/US/Mexico is pretty much all the same country economically - union vs. non-union plants, and the nature of purchasing/outsourcing differences between foreign and North American manufacturers, are a good deal better indicator of build quality that whether Paco goes to work in Texas or Mexico today.

[Demo_Chris]

5. What?

The merits are absolutely objectively real. They are MEASURABLE. The conclusion is not based on opinion, it's not "I like Honda better." Once you move out of the collector's item thing, the retained value of a vehicle is based on it's merits as a VEHICLE -- that is, how likely is it, at any given point in time, to require expensive maintenance to continue functioning. How many miles will this vehicle go before it fails.

The reason that vehicles like Hondas and Toyotas have better retained value is that they run longer on average. MUCH longer actually. More, they are also less likely to suffer lesser issues as well. They are simply put together better. And you can see this instantly at any time you desire. For example, look at the fit and finish on the body panels on a Ford Mustang, then compare that sloppy mess to the precision you will find on the least expensive Honda or Toyota. The shoddy work you see on the exterior of that Ford is there on the inside as well, you might not see it, but you'll learn all about it when the parts fail.

As for who made it...

Sorry, but no, Canada and Mexico are NOT America. It might sound cold and unfeeling, but I could not care less about Mexican and Canadian workers -- not when American autoworkers are stocking shelves in Walmart wondering WTF we did to their jobs.

[Fawke Em]

9. Not anymore they don't - and haven't for years.

BTW, I bet my Mustang outlasts your import shit. Shoddy work? Where? What I do see is a lot of Honda's with chipping bumper paint.

My last Mustang was 13 years old and only needed a clutch when I traded it in. Ran just fine, otherwise, and a clutch is actually just maintenance on a manual transmission.

[Mopar151]

11. Nuthin' lasts....

Last edited Sun Dec 15, 2013, 01:09 AM - Edit history (1)

'Cept old Fords and natural stone - Willie Nelson

Anybody out there still drivin' a '72 Toyota pickup? Anyone? I've owned, and have been driving, ol "Homer" since '83.

[Luminous Animal]

15. Actually they are 'America'. They just aren't the United States.

[Omaha Steve]

12. 2014 Chevrolet Impala is Consumer Reports' highest-scoring sedan

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2013/07/2014-chevrolet-impala-highest-scoring-sedan-consumer-reports/index.htm

Published: July 2013

Video: http://bcove.me/runnkfr5

With the release of our latest road tests, the 2014 Chevrolet Impala becomes the highest-scoring sedan in Consumer Reports’ ratings. Among all cars, its 95-point score falls short of just the Tesla Model S ultra-luxury hatchback (99) and BMW 1 Series coupe (97). No other domestic car has topped the sedans ratings since we began tracking scores in that fashion over 20 years ago.

Consumer Reports’ engineers found the Impala rides like a luxury sedan, with a cushy and controlled demeanor, while delivering surprisingly agile handling, capable acceleration, and excellent braking. The Impala corners quite well for a large car, with prompt turn-in response and controlled body lean. Steering is nicely weighted; it’s light enough for parking maneuvers and provides decent feedback. When pushed to its handling limits, the Impala proved secure, responsive, balanced, and easy to control.

Inside, the spacious cabin sets a new standard for Chevrolet fit and finish, with generally high-quality materials and trim. The backseat is roomy and comfortable, the trunk is huge, and controls are refreshingly intuitive and easy to use. The 22 mpg overall Consumer Reports measured with the Impala’s 3.6-liter V6 engine and six-speed automatic transmission is competitive, but it’s not the best in its class.

Despite its high test score, this Impala is too new for Consumer Reports to have reliability data, so it can’t be Recommended. To be Recommended, a vehicle must perform well in CR’s battery of tests, have average or better reliability in CR’s Annual Auto Survey, and perform well in government and industry crash tests.

Along with the Impala, complete road tests were published online for the Acura RLX, Hyundai Santa Fe, Kia Sorrento, and Jaguar XF.

[Demo_Chris]

14. Made in Canada, and apparently eventually Detroit...

In any case, it's new so no one knows how it will actually hold up.

I own a GM truck for my business. So far it's been okay, no major mechanical issues, which is what I care about. The interior controls are some of the worst I have ever seen, they are actually dangerous, but that was what the vehicle came with. If Toyota or Honda made a truck that would tow what I need to tow I wouldn't even consider buying a Ford or GM vehicle.

[Omaha Steve]

16. The 2014 Impala is built in both the Oshawa, Ontario, Canada and Detroit/Hamtramck, Michigan

There is nothing wrong with a Canadian built GM car. Marta's 09 Equinox was union built in Ingersoll, Ontario, Canada. Now the Equinox is also built in Spring Hill, Tennessee. The Equinox first year of production was 2005. The last few years Equinox has been built around the clock because sales are so good. Not the only GM cars to enjoy that fact.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2010/01/gm-to-run-fairfax-assembly-plant-around-the-clock-in-order-to-meet-consumer-demand-for-chevy-malibu-buick-lacrosse/

General Motors will begin running its Fairfax assembly plant continuously on a permanent basis. The goal is to increase the plant’s capacity from the current 4,500 vehicles per week to 6,300 units in the same time period. The Kansas City-based factory makes the very popular Chevy Malibu and Buick LaCrosse sedans and consistently ranks among the most efficient automotive plants in the U.S. This news comes on the heels of GM’s decision to add a temporary third shift at the plant a few months ago.

Several links combined including (http://www.uaw.org/story/new-agreements-mean-more-us-manufacturing-jobs) have the info for the next two paragraphs.

Since 2009 UAW's contracts have brought over 100,000 jobs back to the USA from Mexico and Asia.

However, the number of jobs directly added by these contracts does not represent a comprehensive picture of the wider effects on the American economy. Because automotive manufacturing is so complex (new jobs require machines, tools, raw materials, parts and a host of other items connected to the production of a new car), there is a ripple effect that amplifies the positive impact of each new manufacturing job added in the automotive sector.

GM and Toyota run neck and neck in world sales, but Toyota is way ahead in recalls and defects over the last 10 years. http://www.motortrend.com/used_cars/01/toyota/recalls/

And last, apparently Toyota or Honda can't compete with GM on the size truck you need, so they don't even try. Just what is so dangerous about your trucks controls?

When it comes to MADE in the USA, the link below has this: When all of the above considerations are averaged, GM scores the highest, followed by Chrysler and Ford, and their averages are substantially higher than Honda, Toyota, and other foreign automakers.

And: Ford employs four out of every 10 of its workers in the U.S., while Toyota only employs one out of 10 of its workers in the U.S.

Conclusion would seem to be Toyota quality has been going down while the BIG three have turned things around and made major advances.


http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/bamw/bamw-130801-american-ness.shtml

Our Buy American Mention of the Week!
by Roger Simmermaker
August 1, 2013

We finally have an American-ness auto index that rightfully blows the Cars.com American-made index out of the water! The deeply flawed and misleading Cars.com index found the Toyota Camry to be the most American car in 2012 (and number 2 in 2013), but as I pointed out in an eariler 'Buy American Mention of the Week' article, this was a flawed analysis because it ignored too many other important factors.

Now, with the 'Kogod Made in America Auto Index' which takes these other important factors into account like the location of research and development and company headquarters, we have a much better and more accurate analysis. It turns out that three GM models are tied for the top spot of most American made, not the Toyota Camry, which is tied for 12th place with two other Toyotas.

The most-informative and well-known education tool for car consumers today comes courtesy of the American Auto Labeling Act (AALA), which helps car buyers select new vehicles by providing country of origin information on vehicles and their parts, and is displayed on each new vehicle available.

The AALA, which was enacted in 1992, was an important step forward in educating car consumers about things like the point of final assemble, the origin of the engine and transmission, and the percentage of domestic (U.S./Canadian) parts. You can see all of the details listed above for all of the automobiles at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website here dating back to 2007. The 2014 model year is also available.

However, as Frank DuBois, a former VW auto mechanic and now an associate professor of international business points out, the AALA has become less accurate and less useful as time goes on and globalization grows. Not only is there an obvious skepticism with "domestic" parts content being defined as a combination of U.S. and Canadian parts, there are other problematic situations.

The 2013 Honda Accord as one such example. The final assembly lists both the U.S. and Japan. The engines can come from the U.S. or Japan, and the transmission can come from Japan or the U.S. (as opposed to 'U.S. or Japan' as listed for the engine).

But the Accord can also come with either a four-cylinder or six-cylinder engine. The six-cylinder Honda Accords are assembled in Japan, with a Japanese engine and transmission. But since the car is part of the overall Accord car line (which includes the Civic Coupe, Civic Sedan, Civic Si Sedan, etc.), an Accord that was made in Japan would display a window sticker claiming 65 percent domestic content.

DuBois's index ranks 253 models in the Kogod Made in America Auto Index based on

where the manufacturer's headquarters is located;
where most research and development (R&D) occurs;
where assembly occurs;
where the engine and transmission come from; and
the AALA score.

Dubois notes other interesting statistics. For example, out of Ford's 56 research centers, 45 of them are located in the United States. Ford employs four out of every 10 of its workers in the U.S., while Toyota only employs one out of 10 of its workers in the U.S.

When all of the above considerations are averaged, GM scores the highest, followed by Chrysler and Ford, and their averages are substantially higher than Honda, Toyota, and other foreign automakers.

According to Dubois, foreign automakers "want to be a global enterprise with a strong local presence, but where the rubber meets the road, where do the profits go? The profits go, more often than not, back to the home country of the manufacturer."

This statement by Dubois (and others) gives credibility to what I have always said since I began writing books on Buying American nearly 20 years ago and chronicled many articles on my website www.howtobuyamerican.com. Any 'Buy American' information or education campaign, if it is to be truly accurate, must contain considerations of where the headquarters is located, and hence where the profits go.

There are other websites available that give you different perspectives on what is really American and what isn't. Edmunds.com came out with an article titled 'How To Buy An American Car' and another one titled 'Foreign Cars Made in America: Where Does the Money Go?' on June 19. Even though I don't necessarily agree with all of the information contained on these websites (mainly because they don't take into account the information in the Kogod Made in America Auto Index) they are certainly useful in offering different perspectives on different parts of the 'Buy American' picture.

At least Edmunds does admit that "It's a safe bet to say that even a company as large as Toyota doesn't have as hefty a U.S. tax bill as does a Ford or GM." But as with other indexes, they don't apply enough weight to this all important fact, in my opinion.

Everyone has a different definition of what makes a car or truck truly American, and there is plenty of data to either create or support your own criteria for what is American and what isn't. In my opinion, however, the Kogod Made in America Auto Index is the best because it is the most accurate and most inclusive. All data is helpful, as long as you apply the proper emphasis on where the company headquarters is located, which determines where the profits go and where the taxes are paid. This is what completes the 'Buy American' picture in the purest sense of the term.


How Americans Can Buy American
Post Office Box 780839, Orlando, Florida 32878-0839
Tel: 1-888-US OWNED (1-888-876-9633)
Emergency Backup: 407-234-4626
Email the Author: Roger Simmermaker
Web: http://www.howtobuyamerican.com

[FarCenter]

13. Most telling is which manufacturers are frequently on the "used cars to avoid" lists.

[CreekDog]

17. i'm looking at Toyotas and Subarus

made in the USA. both of them.

[Omaha Steve]

19. You slept through the Toyota recalls of the last few years?

Most were safety related: http://www.motortrend.com/used_cars/01/toyota/recalls/

[CreekDog]

21. What is the issue here for you? Is it foreign ownership of the company?

Is it lack of unionization, or if there are unions at Toyota and/or Subaru plants, are there other reasons?

I certainly have looked at Chevys and Fords, and have owned both in fact.

[Omaha Steve]

22. Toyota's plants in Japan are ALL unionized

But they have fought it here tooth and nail. VW is the only foreign car maker in the US that is open (remember in Germany the board is 1/2 union members) to unions in the US plant.

Funny Toyota doesn't trust their US workers to build the Prius???

I take issue with people that think Japan cars are superior. The last few years has proved that point a myth. Things have changed.

Yes I prefer the north american companies that reinvest in the US/Canada to plants that send $ back to Asia.

OS

[Mopar151]

20. Rust buckets, both of them

Soobies, in particular, have a lot of rust issues, and not just chassis structure. Toyota trucks have had frame rot issues since the first Hilux. And they are both marketed heavily in snow/salt country.

[RC]

2. What does Brandon Fuller care?

He will never lower himself to ride a bus and mix with the lower classes. People with possibly several real, part time jobs, trying to put food on their families.

[jmowreader]

6. I did a few numbers

If a Chinese bus costs $100,000 less than an American one, and a bus lasts 10 years, the Chinese bus is only $28 per day cheaper than the American one...and the Chinese bus will remain a piece of shit the entire time. And you'd really have to worry about a bus that much cheaper because a natural gas powered bus is only about $400,000, and a diesel is about $300,000.

[tabasco]

7. I'm the first one to tout the quality of foreign vehicles

but I'm in favor of any U.S. governmental body being required to buy American.

[Egalitarian Thug]

8. Cheap is almost always way more expensive. n/t

[FarCenter]

10. The North American market is only 2.5% of the global transit bus market, and it is growing slowest.

Gillig is the only US manufacturer.

New Flyer (Canadian), Volvo (Swedish) and Daimler (German) have most of the North American market, and they manufacture in the US.

Only Volvo, with about 1000 units sold in 2012, is similar in size to the largest half dozen Chinese companies.

Strategic Analysis of Global Hybrid and Electric Heavy-Duty Transit Bus Market

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/strategic-analysis-of-global-hybrid-and-electric-heavy-duty-transit-bus-market-231020261.html

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

18. Given the subsidies required for public transit in the first place,

I don't follow how lower-cost vehicles are going to have a tremendous impact on the farebox, it isn't like they're operating just outside of equilibrium and reduced capital costs will vault them into profit.