So we cannot discuss gun control at all in GD?

[edhopper]

This thread isn't about gun control per se. It seems any mention of it connected to Newtown gets locked.
I get that it's controversial, but aren't we hear to discuss hot button issues that pertain to the body politic?
What is the reason that subject is off the table or delegated to only it's own forum?

[1000words]

1. There are no exceptions

IBTL

[edhopper]

3. To what?

I think this is a recent development and wonder why it took place.
I have seen gun control threads here in the past.

[Bjorn Against]

47. Skinner disagrees with you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594363

[1000words]

49. See post #44

[kcr]

2. The discussion is being effectively shut down.

And it's shameful. This lock for example? No reason for this http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024176623

[edhopper]

4. When did this start

and was a reason given for this change in policy?

I saw that post as well and thought it fine and appropriate.

[Duckhunter935]

7. Its up to the mods

I had no problem with that one. Some have been pushing the envelope on having threads solely about guns even thought they know the exception was ended several weeks ago because all that seems to happen is they get into a shouting match and Skinner decided to have them post in the available gun forums and not GD as many were complaining.

[edhopper]

14. Thanks

Funny how we can have more rational discussions about religion in GD than this.

[BainsBane]

34. There are no moderators

There are hosts, and pro-gun folk constantly send SOP alerts to shut down discussion about gun violence. Some think shutting down debate and keeping people in the dark allows unfettered profits for the gun manufacturers, which is and always has been the point. Like everything in America, it's about profit. What are human lives compared to corporate profit? Nothing.
What they consider disruptive is gun control and talk about gun control.

[Duckhunter935]

43. I have been corrected

and will now say hosts. Skinner has made a decision and guns are back in GD.

thanks as I was permanently blocked for a single post after committing an SOP violation. That seems to seem to also shut down discussion. I am glad GD is not that way or is the other gun forum. They seem to enjoy having all of the differing opinions there.

Blocked Members Gun Control Reform Activism

1 hack89
2 Eleanors38
3 Crepuscular
4 Bay Boy
5 ManiacJoe
6 bossy22
7 Straw Man
8 oneshooter
9 Duckhunter935
10 friendly_iconoclast
11 rrneck
12 customerserviceguy
13 ProgressiveProfessor
14 sarisataka
15 appal_jack
16 Travis_0004
17 geckosfeet
18 Hangingon
19 NYC_SKP
20 Jenoch
21 spin
22 shedevil69taz
23 SoutherDem
24 Ranchemp.
25 Lurks Often

Blocked Members Gun Control & RKBA

1 Hoyt
2 rdharma

Who wants to block discussion?

[BainsBane]

46. I continue to be dismayed by those who think they should be able to participate

in a safe haven whose SOP they explicitly oppose. Go post about BBQ brisket in the vegan group and let me know how that goes.

People can see who sends the SOP alerts. There is a clear political agenda.
Skinner has said he would be happy to allow gun posts if that's what the majority of DU wanted. So if people are frustrated by not being able to post about gun violence in GD, they should let Skinner know. You have spent a fair bit of time trying to convince someone not to articulate their views to Skinner. Every reader can come to his or her own conclusions as to why.

[pintobean]

48. BB is no longer a host

of Gun Control & RKBA. I'm sure the blocking will continue, though.

[hack89]

6. Gun threads have been banned from GD for years

A policy favored by most here due to the nasty tone gun threads invariably degenerate into. The past year was a post Newtown experiment by Skinner to see if DU can discuss guns in a calm and rational manner - unfortunately it did not work.

[edhopper]

8. Thanks.

Guess it's like the smoking threads.

[kcr]

10. Yes, but exceptions have always been made for news

and should be made now, especially for Newtown. Disallowing the discussion of gun policy in our country particularly in reference to Newtown in deference to those who's interest it is to ignore it is shameful.

[Duckhunter935]

20. go ask Skinner, he pulled the exception due to abusive posts

but has now changed and is allowing them

[kcr]

25. Edit never mind, it seems he's changed his mind.

He's going to allow it now

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. Needs to be discussed...but there are two groups dedicated to doing so.

Gun threads in GD were a freaking disaster, engendering some of the nastiest exchanges I've ever seen here. Removing the exception was a necessary step. The two dedicated groups are a better place for such discussions.

Oh, and I kind of expect this thread to get locked, too...it's basically Meta.

[edhopper]

26. What

the first rule of DU is you don't discuss DU?

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. *grin*

Seems like it! I miss Meta...

[hack89]

24. But your example is not news nor is it about Newtown

It is just another anti- gun diatribe.

[kcr]

27. Oh well. It's been unlocked and guns can be discussed now.

[seattledo]

89. How are facts a diatribe?

sigh

[etherealtruth]

98. It was very dishearteneing to something so widely ....

... discussed and topical be shut down.

I am saddened to see that we can (apparently) only acknowledge the massacre in Newtown in terms of "the death of children by unknown causes"

[dipsydoodle]

5. Not generally - No posts about guns.

but Skinner had said in Ask the Administrators that it may be expected that Newtown threads would prevail. Some have been locked.

It would seem some hosts don't read ATA.

see : http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594288

[edhopper]

9. Yeah

The Newtown threads should be allowed.

[Duckhunter935]

13. 99 percent have been allowed

[edhopper]

17. Good to know

didn't seem that way, but I wasn't counting.

[pintobean]

18. Unless they use Newtown

to start gun threads. Those are the ones being locked.

[edhopper]

21. How do you discuss Newtown

without talking about guns. Seems rather Orwellian.

[pintobean]

28. I guess one can't

if they're obsessed with guns and gun laws.

Peggy found a way to do it respectfully.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024176275

[malokvale77]

56. That was my thought. nt

[Duckhunter935]

11. most post have stood and have not been locked

It is a judgment call by the different mods, I do not envy them. They will be complained about however they decide.

[grantcart]

12. No but I suggest that we discuss a more general phenomena:

The epidemic caused by a device with a trigger releasing a spring-loaded hammer hitting a primer, exploding the primer, igniting the propellant driving a projectile through the barrel into a homosapien with fatal results.

We can instead discuss this more general phenomena without talking specifically about *redacted* culture and *redacted* fetish.

[dballance]

15. Here are the topic rules. There is a guns and RKBA forum so discussion isn't being censored.

I, personally, think that the anniversary of Newtown is not strictly a "gun" topic. If I were hosting I'd have probably voted to allow that locked post about the shooting since Newtown to stay open. I think it could have just been viewed as a current event.


Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.

Link:http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1002

I think the rules are valid and the admins make exceptions from time to time. Last year, when Newtown happened they made an exception and allowed threads here in GD about guns because it was a very important current event. Time enough has gone on and now it's time to put the guns, gun control, and RKBA threads back in their proper groups. This is not shutting down or censoring the discussion - just asking it to be placed in the proper venue.

[Duckhunter935]

32. Skinner has made a call Guns in GD

for now, how long is the question

[davidpdx]

75. I understand him doing that with the Newtown anniversary

When he cut off the gun debate I was kind of wondering what was going to happen when the anniversary came around. I guess now we know. If I were him I'd allow it until the day before Christmas and then cut it off again. The gun threads in GD seem to get nasty, the only thing worse is the NSA threads.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. No, we cannot.

Because people cannot discuss rationally.

I, for one, am okay with that. It bothers me that (even as a pro-gun law progressive) we tend to latch on to the latest tragedy and then promptly forget all about it when the next happens. We as a country do this with everything. We don't observe Pearl Harbor as much as 9/11, we have (for the most part) forgotten all about Columbine and more recently Gabby Giffords and the Colorado theater shooting. No, even though I support stricter laws on being able to get one's hands on a gun, I hate that we bounce from event to event.

[malokvale77]

57. I haven't forgot any of those.nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. Too many have. nt

[malokvale77]

65. Sad but true...

I'm old and have a long memory.

[ScreamingMeemie]

70. Me too..

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Apparently, we all agree on guns and no further discussion is necessary.

Just like we all agree on most things. Like we do on politics.

[otohara]

78. They're Only In The News EVERYDAY

so it makes sense to sweep the discussion under the proverbial rug.

[BainsBane]

23. Make your concerns known to Skinner

in ATA.

[edhopper]

29. I am being educated on the subject here

so i am trying to understand both sides. If the post are that disruptive, i understand. I do think they have been to quick on the draw (sorry for the pun0 on some of the Newtown posts.

[BainsBane]

33. my point of view

the gunners have worked hard to shut down talk of gun violence in GD in an effort to keep the issue of just how dangerous guns are out of the public eye. Disruptive? Gun violence is disruptive. The ban has nothing to do with posts being disruptive.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

30. GD was open to gun discussions for nearly an entire year. I'm a gun-hater but gun-haters

need to stop breaking the rules. You had a year to vent and you will, unfortunately, get your chance in GD again. But for now, take it to the gungeon as the rules you agreed to state.

[edhopper]

31. I didn't start any threads about this

just found some i would comment in locked. Not a discussion I often engage in.
Guess i've been around long enough to know this.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

36. Of course edhopper, you did say your post was not about guns, per se, and...

...I should have acknowledged that. I was speaking more to the community in general. There was a post by one of the admins about a month ago that did say that gun discussions were no longer allowed in GD. That's 11 months GD was fair game for gun-shunners and promoters alike.

I, as a policy, do not get into gun discussions. I do, however, think that something needs to be done to stop the massacres, impulse killings, and murders that are committed by people with guns.

[otohara]

37. Venting? WoW

were the 200 activists I joined today for a memorial just venting?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

40. So you take one fucking word of my post and get your fucking panties in a wad over it???

YES, VENTING1!!!!11!

There's a big goddamned difference between you being an activist out on the goddamn street than there is someone VENTING on a fucking forum.

I'M A FUCKING GUN-HATER TOO SO GET OFF MY BACK!

[edhopper]

41. Hey Chisolm

stop venting.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

42. Some people are so fucking obnoxious! n/t

[otohara]

53. Some = Me

sounds like another personal attack.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

54. Your first post to me was an attack, lol! Oh, and I DARE YOU to find ONE

single post from me that backs up your personal attack that I am a woman hater.

Go ahead, try it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. No dog in this race, but here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4178305

It was just a few posts up.

"Panties in a wad" is a sexist comment.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

67. It may be to some but it never has been to me and it was not meant to be in that context. There was

no clear indication of the gender of the poster to whom I was responding. That phrase is an expression that I have heard my entire life and not once have I ever heard anyone claim it to be sexist and neither has anyone EVER complained to me about using it.

Also, even if there are some people who view that phrase as sexist, using it naively DOES NOT MAKE ME A "WOMAN HATER". Again, I dare that poster (and now you) to find any evidence that backs up that claim. Indeed, neither of you know me. Neither of you know what I do in life or how I choose to spend my time as a volunteer or activist.

I was attacked first. I responded. Not only was I attacked, I was attacked by someone who claimed to share my beliefe that guns should be more controlled. But that's typical of people who would take a single word and make that the issue, rather than the topic at hand.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. No need to dare me. I simply pointed out your

sexist comment. Now, you know.

[malokvale77]

66. Mirror

[ChisolmTrailDem]

68. Hey, I didn't start this shit. But I seem to be finishing it. n/t

[malokvale77]

72. Apologies...

I should have read more carefully what you were responding to. It seems the slaughter of school children is a very touchy subject on DU.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

73. Not a problem, malokvale77. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! n/t

[malokvale77]

74. Thank you...

and happy holidays to you.

[otohara]

51. My Panties?

are none of your business.

Venting sounds so girlish and condescending. You sound like a fucking woman hater too?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

52. Hahahahahahahhaaaa! NOW I'M A MYSOGYNIST??? ROFLMAO! Venting is now girlish?

Are you a woman?

[grantcart]

35. Skinner has put back the exception

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594363

[dipsydoodle]

38. Yes

Guess it will be for the time being which does seem appropriate given the circumstances.

[1000words]

44. I stand corrected

Perhaps this hide should be expunged:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024175272

[Agschmid]

99. Hides don't get expunged.

If it had been locked... Maybe by said "confused host" sure but the DU community actually voted to hide that so it's gone forever.

[edhopper]

39. But I would hope if there was actual legislation

being considered we could discuss it here as well.

[krispos42]

50. The general rule...

...that the Admins laid out is, to me at least, that gun control policy discussions, and stories about murder or self-defense with a gun being used to promote a viewpoint on such discussion, are not allowed in GD.

Exceptions are when there's a breaking news event related to the topic (e.g., legislation passing or another mass shooting). Absent that, you can take it to Gun Control & RKBA (a.k.a. "the Gungeon&quot or Gun Control Reform Activism. Or when the Admins lift the prohibition in GD, like they did for about 10 months after the Newtown shooting.

[NutmegYankee]

55. It's one of those issues like Israel-Palestine that is best kept in it's own forum.

Like IP, the members of both camps have nothing but hate and contempt for each other and just bicker on the board to score points.

[malokvale77]

60. So, the discussion of children being masaquered ...

while they attend school should be relegated to a gun forum?

[NutmegYankee]

61. As several posters have demonstrated, for them it's not about the children.

They are going after other DUers.

[malokvale77]

84. Pity (nt)

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. *massacred

[malokvale77]

71. That too...

LOL

[oldhippie]

77. I don't think there are many discussions as to .....

..... the pros and cons of" children being masaquered (sic)". The discussions turn into discussions of gun control policy, which is normally not allowed in GD. Really, what is there to discuss about children being murdered? Other than how to stop it?

[malokvale77]

83. There are no pros...

and I've already been called on the spelling. People familiar with other languages use it, so I left it. You obviously understood it, no?

[liberal N proud]

58. Only for a short period of time following another mass murder

outside that, you have to restrict it to the gun nut forum where they are like a pack of wolves protecting their ground.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

63. Yes, guns will be allowed back in GD the next time a nut

plows a classroom full of kindergartners with an AK-47.

[oldhippie]

79. There is another forum, you know, .......

..... where your discussion can take place? Not the RTKBA group?

[Duckhunter935]

81. if you put it in "castle bansalot"

nobody can disagree with you

[Packerowner740]

90. Castle bansalot?

[Duckhunter935]

92. AKA Gun Control Reform Activism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1262

they tend to block posters they do not like. Most get blocked after one or two posts. I was blocked after one they did not like. No appeal or warning

Blocked Members
Number
1 hack89
2 Eleanors38
3 Crepuscular
4 Bay Boy
5 ManiacJoe
6 bossy22
7 Straw Man
8 oneshooter
9 Duckhunter935
10 friendly_iconoclast
11 rrneck
12 customerserviceguy
13 ProgressiveProfessor
14 sarisataka
15 appal_jack
16 Travis_0004
17 geckosfeet
18 Hangingon
19 NYC_SKP
20 Jenoch
21 spin
22 shedevil69taz
23 SoutherDem
24 Ranchemp.
25 Lurks Often

[Packerowner740]

96. Quite and education to be had around here

With all of the initials, group nicknames and such.

Thanks

[Agschmid]

100. You mean GD currently...

[Duckhunter935]

107. as long as Sninner is allowing

We shall see how long as the name calling has already begun. Very hard to have a discussion when on side calls the other side killers and murderers in waiting.

[In_The_Wind]

76. Skinner told the GD Host ...

On CNN today everyone seems to be talking about guns.
We should be able to talk about guns on DU, also.

[Bjorn Against]

80. Take a notice of who the loudest voices asking for gun threads to be kept out of GD are

They are the gungeon regulars, they are all people who post about guns constantly.

Now ask yourself this, if you were a person thought that the conversation about guns was so awful that it should not be allowed in GD why would they participate in that conversation so frequently?

If anybody who is constantly talking about guns tells you that conversation about guns should be limited you know there is a reason they want to limit the debate, it is because they know that facts are being exposed that are proving them wrong and they do not want people to see those facts.

You know damn well these people would not want the gun topic moved out of GD if they were winning the debate.

[Duckhunter935]

82. I disagree

but you know that.

Guns should in the gun forums, that is where most of the discussions are however one allows somewhat more free debate than the other. Gun posts in GD just turn into a spat and gets ugly. We were asking the host to follow the GD rules and now that Skinner has allowed debate in GD I do not see anyone bringing that up anymore.

[Bjorn Against]

85. If you thought it were so ugly you would not be participating

You seem to spend most your time here debating the gun issue, if you really thought the debate was so ugly that it needs to be kept out of GD why participate? There is a hide thread feature you are free to use if you really don't want to see gun threads in GD, there is no reason to limit debate for everyone else.

[Duckhunter935]

87. I like the discussion

I can have it here (now for as long as Skinner allows) or in the one gun forum as they blocked me after a single post in castle bansalot. They do not seem to like discussion over there, they prefer a lovefest but I do not mind. I do not particularly care for it when I am called a murderer or a potential murderer or someone just looking to kill. But I can take it.

[Bjorn Against]

88. If you like the discussion here then why do you make so many posts calling for its limitation?

I have seen post after post from you today telling people to stop talking about guns in this forum, if you really wanted to talk about guns in this forum I don't see why you seem so obsessed with enforcing this rule and limiting the debate to small forums that are not seen by nearly as many people.

[Duckhunter935]

91. because until

Skinner adjusted the rules this afternoon, guns were not allowed in GD. As I am sure you can see, those are all before Skinner allowed guns back in GD and I have not said one thing trying to get them restricted since.

Do I need to type slower?

[Bjorn Against]

93. So you are our new hall monitor?

It is strange, I see rules violations on this board all the time but you seem far more eager to enforce this one than you do to enforce other rules on this site.

This is despite the fact that Skinner had already said that leeway would be provided on this issue days ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594288

I know this was pointed out to you earlier, but you kept fighting to provide no leeway until Skinner spoke up again.

You are the hall monitor who will provide no leeway even when the administrator said leeway would be provided.

[Duckhunter935]

94. Some leeway, does this mean all gun threads are allowed?

and I think the host did a great job when they thought it was getting off topic.

Iff you see so many rules broken alert. I do so very little until today. I think I alerted maybe 5 times total.

[Bjorn Against]

95. Why should I alert on a discussion when I support that discussion taking place?

If you did not know what Skinner meant when he said he was going to allow leeway you should have asked him rather than trying to enforce the rule with no leeway provided.

[Agschmid]

101. +1

[malokvale77]

86. That's what I see. nt

[HappyMe]

102. No, that's not true.

I don't post in the gungeon or the other gun group. I don't have a gun, and never will. I was glad to see the gun threads in GD gone. There isn't any 'discussion'. It may start out that way, but it quickly dissolves into stupid 'small dick' and other insult flinging (on both sides). Those threads don't accomplish anything.

[Bjorn Against]

103. I have seen hundreds of news articles on this site with productive discussion on guns

While there have been some heated debates as well it is not true that all gun threads lead to mud flinging, many of them are discussion of real news stories.

The large majority of people I see insisting that gun threads are regulated to the small forums are gun enthusiasts, you may be an exception to that rule but there are many others who like the discussion. I think the hide thread feature gives people like you a way to stay away from the debate while also allowing others to participate.

[HappyMe]

104. I just let a few threads go by -

to figure out what words I should put into the trash by key word feature.

There are also 2 different groups to post gun stuff in. At one time, once I dumped the majority of gun threads there was probably about 10 threads left on the first page of GD.

[Bjorn Against]

106. With that many gun threads it is obvious a lot of people wanted to discuss it

There were a few days in which gun discussions have dominated this site, but gun threads certainly don't take up the majority of GD on most days. On a typical day we always get a few gun threads but there are threads on so many other issues as well that gun threads only make up a relatively small percentage of the topics being discussed in GD, this was true even throughout most of the last year when the gun discussion ban had been lifted. There were a few days in which gun discussions did dominate, but it is obvious that when that does happen it means that a lot of people want to discuss the issue.

There are a lot of issues that create heated discussion on DU and guns are not even close to the most controversial issue on this site, porn threads get far more nasty than the majority of gun threads do and yet we allow them in GD.

The problem with regulating gun threads to the small forums is that few people see the small forums, there has been a lot of informative threads posted on GD about the topic of guns and I think these threads deserve to be seen. Many of these threads have gotten huge numbers of recs and many DUers find them very informative, I see no reason they should be banished to the small forums when all the people who don't want to read them have to do is click on the hide thread button.

[amerxp]

97. Politican

Give a politican an inch and he will take a mile. The slippery slope argument can be used as well. There are gun control laws already in place though. Registration laws, permits that must be had, controls on what type of assault weapons and silencers can be legally owned, where guns can be carried and concealed, background checks for handgun purchases. There are many laws.

[edhopper]

105. Not what we are discussing here

and pro gun bullshit from some one with 4 posts.
Please go troll somewhere else.