For all you lurking conservative Godsters...I'm an atheist, yet I enjoy Gospel and Christmas carols.

[Atman]

Get off your God-damned high horse and accept that I'm not warring on your "Christmas," a pagan holiday in a fancy wrapping. I'm just intelligent enough to understand our constitution when it says you can have all the religion you want, but don't make me pay taxes to support it or force my Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Wiccan friends (or anyone else) to stand in prayer with you. I'll listen to my Alison Kraus, and Christmas tunes and I'll put up a little dead tree and do the Advent calendar gifts for my granddaughter. Because it's fun and quaint, blah blah. I also occasionally dress up on Halloween...it doesn't mean I actually believe in bogeymen -- as you seem to. Get over yourselves.

[mainer]

1. I'm an atheist and I love sacred music. And carols. And religious paintings.

It's art, and the inspiration behind it doesn't change the fact it is art.

[Atman]

2. X1000

Happy holidays!

Merry Christmas, even.

[mainer]

4. I already have my Christmas tree up!

And we celebrated Sinterklaas with a party on Dec. 5. The more holidays you participate in, religious or otherwise, the more excuses you have for a party!

What this country really needs is a raucous Bacchus holiday with wine, satyrs, and song.

[Rhythm]

30. I like the way you think!!!

The more holidays you participate in, religious or otherwise, the more excuses you have for a party!

[Major Nikon]

9. Michelangelo was probably an atheist

Many have speculated (almost certainly correctly) that the image of a human brain surrounds god on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Although different interpretations exist, I imagine he was saying that man created god in his own image rather than the other way around.

The reason there are so many religious works of art is because for a large segment of history, the church was the entity with the money to commission those works of art. As a commercial artist you usually painted or sculpted what the customer wanted.

[AlbertCat]

13. Atheist since about the 6th grade....I listen to Bach every day

Literally every day. I love Bach.

And his best stuff are the Cantatas.... written (mostly) for church services and church functions.

So I listen to a lot of church music.

I once did a little personal study of musical settings of the Mass. I was interested in how it changed musically over time, and even within the same composers' oeuvre. ( I can recite the mass in Latin now)

But none of this outpouring of faith and beauty has ever made me "credo in unum Deum." (Though I think the music is sometimes (not always) effected by the subject matter.)

I like Indian religious music too.

And, since it's the season, if you like "Messiah"... check out Handel's 'Chandos Anthems". These are amazing "little Messiahs", (only about 20 to 30 minutes each, "Messiah"? 3 hours, and not about Christmas, but then neither is 2/3rds of "Messiah&quot psalms sung in English. Full of great instrumental intros, choruses and arias. I like this recording:

http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Chandos-Complete-George-Frideric/dp/B000000A5J/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1387142853&sr=1-1&keywords=handel+chandos+anthems

Here's a sample... from #6, "As Pants the Hart..." the amazing duet "Why so full of grief, O my soul?"

Anyway....

Remember! Listen to every kind of music you can! at least once.

[eqfan592]

38. Same here!

For me, some of these songs are just too much a part of my childhood to set aside. I may not believe in the mythology behind the music, but I can still appreciate its beauty.

[Egalitarian Thug]

3. I still love the Catholic Christmas show. One of the things we lack here is a

traditional Catholic cathedral. We have a bunch of Catholic churches, but none were built in that cathedral style and the show just isn't very good without the proper set.

[Atman]

6. It's a spectacle. Like a Broadway show...why do I have to believe it's real to enjoy it?

Last edited Sun Dec 15, 2013, 05:52 PM - Edit history (1)

The Fox-ites and crazy fundies need to get a grip.

[AlbertCat]

18. Like a Broadway show

After all, Theatre starts with religion.

And the Catholics do it spectacularly...lights, stained glass and vaulted sets, costumes, music, incense, choreography....

[caledesi]

33. Amen to that! nt

[immoderate]

5. Try the Bobby Timmons Christmas album.

Jimmy Smith also did a good one.

"Religious" music, art and architecture get a pass from me. (They are, after all, human endeavors.)

--imm

[VPStoltz]

15. You can not beat Nat King Cole. The best of them all.

[Quayblue]

23. +1

I got this album for my kids as my parents played it every Christmas.

Nostalgia at its best for me.

[valerief]

7. I like commie socialist nazi christmas songs.

[Warpy]

8. I'm an atheist who used to turn into kickass gospel music

on the way home from work because it was the only stuff loud and uplifting enough to keep me awake on the road. And yes, I used to bellow right along with it.

Putting on Groucho glasses to give out candy on Halloween doesn't mean I'm a closet male.

Sometimes good music is good music and sometimes Groucho glasses are just to make the kids laugh.

I've known quite a few churchgoing atheists from Europe over the years who say they go to church to connect with the past, not because they believe a single word of the dogma.

I understand your rant completely. The only closet we atheists are ever in is the "I'm just not religious" one that seems to comfort the believers.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

10. This devout athiest

knows the words to every Christmas carol and does housework to gospel.

[Skittles]

11. honestly the only people warring on Christmas seem to be conservatives

they're making a mockery of what should be a lovely holiday

[Skidmore]

14. Nah. They're making money on it from a gullible few.

[NoQuarter]

32. Word.

Actually (and sadly) it seems to more than a "few".

[cbayer]

12. I hope you have a peaceful and joyous holiday season.

I hope you are surrounded by those who love you and who treasure your love.

I hope you take the opportunity to think of those less fortunate and do something positive to help them.

In short, I hope you revel in the spirit of the holiday season.

[dchill]

16. I, too, enjoy celebrating the Winter Solstice...

along with ALL my Christian and pagan friends. It doesn't even bother me that the Christians tried to co-opt a perfectly good ancient tradition. I think that's what is now called "Christmas Spirit(tm)."

[VPStoltz]

17. Same here. I would go to Midnight Mass every year with - and later without - my mom.

I'd sit in the choir loft and watch the quaint spectacle from up there. Little children, the live Nativity, the guitars, the recorders, the off-pitch singing, and those poinsettias!!!
The holiday decorating is kind of like fireworks - that hang around for a while.
And EVERYONE loves fireworks.

[Paper Roses]

19. Thanks for this post. May we all believe what we want. n/t

[Half-Century Man]

20. "occasionally dress up on Halloween"...You lack dedication. Always dress out.

Free candy and blue hair and laughing children....I don't have to say anything else.

[Old Codger]

21. Amen N/T

[Spitfire of ATJ]

22. Like I said here....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4151346

[amerxp]

24. UNCOMMON SENSE: Atheists can enjoy Christmas regardless of Christ

I don’t believe in God. Never have, never will.

I could go into a long-winded explanation of how I came to this conclusion, but there’s no need.

Everybody who has lived more than a few moments on this planet has heard the religion argument and nothing I could say would make a difference at this point. In many ways we atheists are a lot like most of our religious neighbours. We go about quietly doing our thing and we don’t try and convert anybody else to our point of view.

Few people know I’m an atheist because I don’t go about telling people. And that’s the way it should be, really. Your beliefs are your own and you don’t need to force them on others.

Which is why it bothers me that an atheist group in Vancouver is trying so desperately to post up anti-religious billboards to convert the believers and agnostics. The Centre for Inquiry Canada is complaining that their ads for Pattison Outdoor billboards were rejected recently and are considering filing a human rights complaint in response.

The rejected advert shows a stock photo of a smiling woman holding a cup of coffee with a biblical font reading, “Jenn 13:1. Praying won’t help. Doing will.”

You know what doesn’t help? Self-righteous billboards plastered around Vancouver during a Christian season of celebration.

The only thing worse than somebody foisting their religion in your face like some kind of telemarketer calling just as your hot dinner is on the table is an atheist trying to turn unbelief into a belief system.

Atheism is anti-theism. We don’t know what others think about God, and frankly we don’t care.

Not caring frees up our time to invest our energies in the pursuits we actually enjoy.

By taking atheism and turning it into an organization that accepts donations and plasters up billboards and tries to convert other people into accepting “the truth,” this group is becoming the thing it claims not to be: A religion.

It isn’t for me to convince others to believe or not believe in God. That’s their own journey and choice. Leave each person to find God or the infinite nothingness on their own and save the preaching for the fundamentalists in Alabama and Afghanistan.

http://www.southdeltaleader.com/opinion/235770401.html

[LiberalLovinLug]

25. I also occasionally dress up on Halloween...it doesn't mean I actually believe in bogeymen

Perfect!

Even the word "Christmas" has evolved, like many other English words into something else. Something more inclusive. It is a word that describes a time of year that most humans (some call it something other than Christmas) celebrate family and friends and life. And its is a big THANK-YOU to the Big Guy in the Sky, or the Universe, or whatever or whomever started this whole crazy world. It is a time to look beyond your own circumstances and help others, and to smile at others.

Look if Christians can co-opt the decorated tree, the yule log, Santa Claus, mistletoe, Frosty the snowman, Non-religious seasonal songs like "I'm dreaming of a White Christmas" "jingle bells" etc.. then they have no right to declare that the non-religious are at war with Christmas. I have a fundie based family and I know how they cherry pick and include all those traditional elements without thinking.....Why?....because its more FUN that way. If they were truly circling the wagons and were true blue Christians they would reject anything that took the focus off of the celebration of Jesus's birth. But no, they want in on the fun part that the secular world has invented (Like Coca Cola did with the modern Santa), while at the same time saying they are under attack for their pure "faith".

[Atman]

46. Best post. Period.

Our DIL proclaims to be Wiccan. No big deal...I never see her doing anything different than her atheist grandparents do. She just has different beliefs. Yet, we took them out to buy a Christmas tree. Our first granddaughter is enjoying her Advent calendar gifts. They did the obligatory pose with Mall Santa today. Yet, non of us belief in the Christ myth. But the world goes on, and we aren't taking up arms in this WAR ON CHRISTMAS.

[AleksS]

26. Agreed, and if you haven't seen it before, this seems to match your feelings

As a Christmas-enjoying Atheist, this is actually one of my favorite Christmas songs--written by another Christmas-enjoying atheist. Listen through. I chuckle and I cry, and I nod my head, and at then end, keep going back to it every year.

Tim Minchin has some out-there songs, and some offensive bits, but this is not one of them. Seriously recommend it.

[AtheistCrusader]

42. That was really something

That was quite nice.

[HockeyMom]

27. I stopped going to Mass in Catholic school as a teenager

I didn't raise my children in religion. Christmas to us is more of a cultural and family tradition. Religion, and church, is not part of it. Christmas and Thanksgiving are about the same except for the decorations (secular) at Christmas.

[JI7]

28. so do i , it's my favorite time of the year

[OldRedneck]

29. Well, we invited the Anti-Christ to our Christmas party.

He came. Turned the wine into water.

We won't be inviting him back.

[TexasBushwhacker]

31. I LOVE GOSPEL MUSIC

and I've never been a believer.

[OriginalGeek]

34. Stole this from a friend's FB page this morning:

[Bucky]

39. I'm down with most of that, but....

that Yule dude kind of freaks me out.

[OriginalGeek]

40. You best get to singing

keep that freaky dude happy!

[rustbeltvoice]

35. i am a Catholic and a d/Democrat and...

concerning Christmas:

These "conservative Godsters", most are hypocrites, and some tyrants.

It must be remembered that Christmas was not celebrated, for most of history, in English-speaking America. Certain extreme Protestants still do not. There were places in Calvinist America where it was illegal to celebrate the day, and well into the XIXth century one could be dismissed from employment for taking the holiday. There were occasions where the Catholic or the Orthodox (and many following the Julian calendar) worker benefited from having a Jewish boss, whom did not have this "christian" bias.

It must be recognised that Christmas was a season of twelve days beginning on the 25th, with a preparatory season of four weeks (Advent) before. This was a community celebration, it was an organic folk "thing" where each group had their own elements to add and enjoy. Within that community, the degree of religiosity and scope of theological belief varied. The mean spirited debunking by other theists, and evangelising atheists is a strike to the community of celebrants.

Now currently in this country (we are not in such a country where it is unlawful or dangerous, though such have and do exist) there are many ways to celebrate, or not to celebrate the holiday. If one is not interested, well--fine; if one enjoys certain aspects, well--fine. The day/season can not be forced upon one, and if it were? what version?

Now, those making this a "war" are agitating frauds. Christmas has been co-opted, in large degree, by the secular business and commercial interests that only use it as a vehicle to gather lucre. This wars with Christmas. Those who are not interested at all in Christmas, do not harm it; they only do not share in it. If these people include atheists, they cause no harm. Those who try to cast all of Christmas as a non-Christian endeavor are hostile to it. Those who shout and whine about this number as dangerous enemies are disturbed, and/or dishonest. We are not under a powerful tyranny that threatens those who participate in Christmas. It is annoying, and bothersome to encounter those who still want to censor Christmas, whatever their motivation. Tell them to have a 'Merry Christmas'.

There are some Protestant congregations now which celebrate the holiday only outside of church. Some of these self appointed defenders of the holiday, do not participate in much, or any religious services. Self-contradiction has never been a problem for them.

There are several lines in Dickens' A Christmas Carol that applies to this. There are different sorts of Scrooges about.

[Bucky]

36. The reason: Gospel & Christmas songs are about joy, love, & hope; not about judgment & hate

The songs that they sing are inspired by deep spiritual feelings and experiences. They are acts of love and so we love them. The problem with too many (but not all) fundies is that they make their works in this life about exclusion, not inclusion, and judgment of others instead of acceptance and love of their fellow human beings. That which is born in hatred is hateable, that which is born in love is beloved.

In its proper form, Christianity is so much better than the nominal Christians who too often hog the spotlight.

[WinkyDink]

37. Haha! That describes my husband EXACTLY, for decades. Then a funny thing happened: he started

going to church (Anglican) to hear the music live, and became a devout Christian!

Well, then again, he was a PK, and I guess he just tired of his "rebellion."

(Moi? Still thinking. ).

[murielm99]

43. Do they know what a PK is?

I do, because I went to Christian schools. Some of my best friends are PKs.

[WinkyDink]

47. I figured it was a common term!

[Vashta Nerada]

41. I'm an atheist and I enjoy christmas.

I like the company of family and friends, receiving and giving presents, and I love the food.

I hate the music, however. It's overplayed.

[Atman]

44. Internet radio: SomaFM.

Awesome. Not your granny's Christmas music.

[nolabear]

45. Count me in. I love Christmas, the music, the lights, gifts, even the story.

But I see it as a metaphor. No war, just respect for more than one point of view!

And some kick-ass music, both classic and modern.