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Andrew Sullivan wonders about Fox News (Original Post) Scuba Dec 2013 OP
Can't help but wonder? The_Commonist Dec 2013 #1
Well, he is basically calling them demonic.... reformist2 Dec 2013 #4
Well, isn't that basically what they ARE? calimary Dec 2013 #10
K&R for Sullivan telling it like it is about Faux Xtians. nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #2
FOX=Demonic billhicks76 Dec 2013 #57
i'll take if farther andrew, most powerrul forces against HUMANITY in our culture spanone Dec 2013 #3
you got it. BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2013 #8
DUrec L0oniX Dec 2013 #5
file that in the "no shit, sherlock" category Kali Dec 2013 #6
Why preface the rec with an insult? n/t sammythecat Dec 2013 #12
huh? Kali Dec 2013 #14
Well, not everyone is as astute as you and me. sammythecat Dec 2013 #15
Fox is dead last among network news ratings. ieoeja Dec 2013 #21
I stand corrected and surprised. sammythecat Dec 2013 #23
You did hear for years that Fox was #1. ieoeja Dec 2013 #29
Do Faux broadcast stations have national new shows TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #32
I just checked our listing sammythecat Dec 2013 #36
We just watch it for repeats of Big Bang. n/t TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #43
Exact same thing here. sammythecat Dec 2013 #49
we have local fox news shows on a dif channel than o'reilly et al. eom ellenfl Dec 2013 #40
The local FOX channel is also broadcasted over the air. TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #42
I read recently that in all the time it has been on the air.... A HERETIC I AM Dec 2013 #60
Fox's only real "news" hour is Special Report, and thats also number 1 among cable. 7962 Dec 2013 #64
LOL!!!! 2banon Dec 2013 #50
Good to see a big voice sammythecat Dec 2013 #7
But he's proven wrong so often, why should we listen to his opinions at all? MNBrewer Dec 2013 #70
The only thing missing is their political affiliation. QuestForSense Dec 2013 #9
vey true mgardener Dec 2013 #11
Knr alfredo Dec 2013 #13
He's just figuring this out? MADem Dec 2013 #16
I think the reason for the OP sammythecat Dec 2013 #18
I gotta roll my eyes at AS. He drifts with the tide. MADem Dec 2013 #25
Well, I did read the whole thing as you suggested sammythecat Dec 2013 #35
I think he is a talented debater, I just get a bit weary of his "schtick!" MADem Dec 2013 #41
He's a fiscal conservative, but a social liberal. That might alfredo Dec 2013 #48
He wasn't terribly socially liberal when he was screaming for war with Iraq. MADem Dec 2013 #59
He draws his definition of con and lib from his native home. alfredo Dec 2013 #66
That's fiction, too--Maggie Thatcher was Ronnie in a dress. They're as whack-a-doodle as we are. MADem Dec 2013 #67
He has no real power over me so I don't get upset alfredo Dec 2013 #68
Agree. I may be able to forgive but I don't forget. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2013 #65
Fox Media negoldie Dec 2013 #17
Pope Francis was quoted as saying Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #61
To revisit this post, let's provide the source. The_Commonist Dec 2013 #19
Please see post #18. Scuba Dec 2013 #20
Please see post #25 The_Commonist Dec 2013 #31
He isn't a liberal--he's a conservative who keeps changing his mind and following the crowd. MADem Dec 2013 #27
Wait, Andrew Sulivan is now a "Quotable Liberal?" tclambert Dec 2013 #22
This Reminds Me Of Two Things DallasNE Dec 2013 #24
they clearly did not anticipate the "press" using their power against the interests ... AlbertCat Dec 2013 #37
But It Is That Narrow Ownership DallasNE Dec 2013 #44
"I like Jesus; his fan club, not so much" Skittles Dec 2013 #46
"I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians as they are nothing like your Christ". Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #62
Thanks. I'm Not Surprised That It Was An Actual Quote DallasNE Dec 2013 #69
I can remember when Sully was a key part of the wingnut media machine, QC Dec 2013 #26
Kudos to Sully! bvar22 Dec 2013 #28
Way to play catch-up, Sullivan. (nt) Paladin Dec 2013 #30
Wonder no longer, Andrew. Fox "News" is positively demonic! Enthusiast Dec 2013 #33
If you take the teachings of the Bible as parables of life lessons in human nature,... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #34
I would say AGAINST MORALITY. polichick Dec 2013 #38
No wonder here.. fox is the anti-Christ. nm Cha Dec 2013 #39
He's Seemed To Be Evolving For Some time colsohlibgal Dec 2013 #45
Against Christianity? Who freaking cares? rivegauche Dec 2013 #47
I just find this quote by him naive. This is not new to us on the left .. we got it long ago. YOHABLO Dec 2013 #51
Whether you like Mr. Sullivan or not, you have to admit he hit the nail rhett o rick Dec 2013 #52
Totally off topic, but.... WonderGrunion Dec 2013 #53
piss on Andrew Sullivan KG Dec 2013 #54
That observation is equally apropos for the "Christian Right," the right-wing agenda and dogma, the indepat Dec 2013 #55
Walter White tells the TRUTH nikto Dec 2013 #56
LOL, he does look pretty scary these days! reformist2 Dec 2013 #58
That's a great quote! n/t Delphinus Dec 2013 #63

calimary

(81,220 posts)
10. Well, isn't that basically what they ARE?
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:19 AM
Dec 2013

Seems to me it fits the definition perfectly. I mean - look at what they're doing. Listen to what they're saying.

This is a meme WELL-WORTH repeating.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
57. FOX=Demonic
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 04:25 AM
Dec 2013

The are evil hypocrites. They invoke God but God must despise them. They are Anti-Jesus and Anti-American. They are full of hate and speak mostly lies. And they are allowed to be this way because the established forces and most powerful ate exactly like them.

Kali

(55,007 posts)
14. huh?
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:31 AM
Dec 2013

who did I insult? only meant to insult fux and any that watch it - Sullivan only now clues in?

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
15. Well, not everyone is as astute as you and me.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:50 AM
Dec 2013

Given that fox dominates network news ratings, it's clear that many, many tens of millions are indeed clueless. I wish we could give an unqualified welcome to any that finally do get a clue and speak up about it. And btw, Sullivan has had this opinion of fox for a good while now. I don't know where this quote came from but it's not just some recent epiphany.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
21. Fox is dead last among network news ratings.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:25 PM
Dec 2013

Among broadcast networks ABC is #1, followed by NBC and CBS with FOX pulling up last.

Among cable news channels, the Fox News Channel (FNC) is #1, followed by CNN and MSNBC. But at #1 among cable news, FNC's ratings are still far, far below even CBS, much less ABC.

But wait ... there's more! The actual "news hours" on FNC are not, in fact, rated higher than the news hours on CNN. Their talk shows are rated higher than anything else on the cable news channels. But not the news portions.

Not done yet. On big news days, like a hurricane making landing, FNC's daily ratings plummet. When news is breaking, most FNC viewers switch to CNN.


sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
23. I stand corrected and surprised.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:32 PM
Dec 2013

I thought for years I heard fox was #1 in viewership. Very discouraging. It's seriously heartening to hear that's not the case. Maybe there's a chance after all that we won't slide into an idiocracy.

Thanks for the correction, the info, and the civil way you did it. Much appreciated.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
29. You did hear for years that Fox was #1.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:45 PM
Dec 2013

You hear conservatives point out their #1 daily rating among cable news channels all time time. Rarely does anybody bother responding that broadcast news shows have a much higher rating than any show on any cable news channel. So most people do not know this fact.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
32. Do Faux broadcast stations have national new shows
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 01:36 PM
Dec 2013

like ABC, CBS and NBC? Our local does not show any national news they do a pitiful local show at 9PM CST. That's all that passes for news.

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
36. I just checked our listing
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:06 PM
Dec 2013

I guess you're right. They don't seem to have an official nightly news show that's like the broadcast stations. I never watch fox, so I didn't know this until now. Looks like their personalities each have shows and they discuss news. Kind of like msnbc and Maddow et all.

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
49. Exact same thing here.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 07:42 PM
Dec 2013

Other than an occasional football game, Big Bang is the only thing I watch on fox.

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
42. The local FOX channel is also broadcasted over the air.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:19 PM
Dec 2013

The FAUX NOISE is cable/satellite only.

ABC, NBC and CBS local broadcast stations air national news shows morning and evenings.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,367 posts)
60. I read recently that in all the time it has been on the air....
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:51 AM
Dec 2013

The Fox News Network has not actually broken one single story.

Not one.

So it comes as no surprise that people go to sources that actually break news stories, instead of one that just repeats the hard work of others.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
64. Fox's only real "news" hour is Special Report, and thats also number 1 among cable.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 09:36 AM
Dec 2013

But its rare that a cable channel beats any network at any hour. Even most of the acclaimed cable TV shows (Breaking Bad, etc) fall behind network shows in the ratings.
But if their massive ratings really meant a lot, then obama wouldve lost the election!

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
7. Good to see a big voice
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:18 AM
Dec 2013

come to this conclusion and be vocal about it. I like him. I believe he's genuine, he speaks from the heart and will readily change his mind when proven wrong. He's not a rigid ideologue.

mgardener

(1,816 posts)
11. vey true
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:19 AM
Dec 2013

The "best' christians are like the fox news christians. The ones that show up to worship every Sunday and brag what good christian they are and know how others should think and behave.
And insist that everybody else be exactly like them because they are better then everybody else.
The devout Christians are those that walk the walk of Christ. They care about others.

Andrew Sullivan is so right, they are the perfect example of how true Christians should NOT behave.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
16. He's just figuring this out?
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:56 AM
Dec 2013

The people at Faux are greedy, soulless assholes. Full stop.

For years, he thought Pope JP was "misunderstood" and really wanted change...yeah, right!

And for years, he thought Dubya was misunderstood, and really wasn't such a bad guy...yeah, right!

I'm sure he's a charming storyteller, but I wouldn't take anything Andrew Sullivan says too seriously. He's just one guy with opinions, like most of us. This particular opinion is on the lines of "Do you suppose the sun sets in the west?"

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
18. I think the reason for the OP
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:04 PM
Dec 2013

is that Sullivan is influential. I'm just one guy with opinions but, because I'm not influential, I don't get quoted in the media. His voice carries some weight. Mine, none.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
25. I gotta roll my eyes at AS. He drifts with the tide.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:39 PM
Dec 2013

He may be "influential," for those who like his persuasive banter, but he's more of a follower than a leader. He was a real cheerleader for that lunacy known as the Iraq War, and that was just curious as hell to me. That whole "thoughtful conservative--I'm not like THOSE guys" act just doesn't work on me. And the "I'm gonna make you love me" drumbeat vis a vis Roman Catholicism is just the strangest tack he continues to take.


See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Sullivan (read the whole thing, it's an eye-opener)...


As a youth Sullivan was a fervent fan of Margaret Thatcher and later Ronald Reagan. He says of that time, "what really made me a right-winger was seeing the left use the state to impose egalitarianism—on my school",[25] after the Labour government tried to merge his school for bright children with the local comprehensive. At Oxford he became friends with future prominent conservatives, William Hague and Niall Ferguson and became involved with Conservative party politics.[25]

From 1980 through 2002 he supported the Republican presidential candidate in the United States.[25] In 2004, he supported John Kerry's presidential campaign after losing faith in George W. Bush after the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse scandal and what he saw as incompetent management of the occupation of Iraq.[25] Sullivan, among a number of other conservative writers, endorsed Senator Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination in the 2008 US Presidential Election, and Rep. Ron Paul for the Republican nomination. He eventually endorsed Obama for President largely becaue he believed that he would restore "the rule of law and Constitutional balance," as well as representing a more realistic prospect for "bringing America back to fiscal reason" and a hope that Obama would be able to "get us past the culture war."[34] He has continued to maintain that Obama is in fact the best choice for president from a conservative point of view. During the 2012 election campaign he wrote, "Against a radical right, reckless, populist insurgency, Obama is the conservative option, dealing with emergent problems with pragmatic calm and modest innovation. He seeks as a good Oakeshottian would to reform the country's policies in order to regain the country's past virtues. What could possibly be more conservative than that?"[35]

Sullivan has declared support for Arnold Schwarzenegger[36] and other like-minded Republicans.[37][38] He believes that the Republican party, and much of the conservative movement in the United States has largely abandoned its earlier skepticism and moderation in favor of a more fundamentalist certainty, both in religious and political terms.[39] This is the primary source of his alienation from the modern GOP.[40]

....Sullivan opposes hate crime laws, arguing that they undermine freedom of speech and equal protection.[45] He also opposes the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, arguing that it will, "not make much of a difference" and stated that the "gay rights establishment" was wrong to oppose a version of the bill that did not include gender identity.[46]


I spent decades in a military uniform, but I came down on the side of the "Decadent Left" (his words) when it came to that clusterfuck in Iraq--and that was BEFORE I learned that Bush didn't know--and no one, apparently, told him--that there were more than one "flavor" of Muslim residing in Iraq, and that he had no knowledge of the Shi'a-Sunni divide.

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
35. Well, I did read the whole thing as you suggested
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 02:54 PM
Dec 2013

and I did learn a few things.

His resistance to state imposed egalitarianism at his private school I found less than endearing, but that was, the article describes, as a youth. I'd hope he'd be embarrassed about that now but, considering his fondness of the Bell Curve, it's a weak hope.

I was disgusted as well as perplexed by his and anyone else's support for the invasion of Iraq. It was like some nationalistic virus blinded these people to the truth most of DU and hundreds of millions around the world could clearly see. He has, and will always have, blood on his hands for his fierce advocacy in that one. He has said the same of himself and has apologized profusely and, I believe, sincerely. Not that it matters to anyone, but I've accepted his apology as genuine.

I check his blog daily and I admit to being one who likes his "persuasive banter". It seems to me he takes a liberal stance on most, if not all, of the issues out there today. Still though, even though he doesn't like today's republicanism, he still calls himself a conservative. The old-school kind . I don't like that either. Best I can say about that is stinginess is better than insane evil.

He also has a reputation for "rolling with the tide". I'm not convinced that's a fair criticism. He has changed his mind, but I like that and don't see evidence he does it for any self-serving reason. He says he's an anti-ideologue (isn't everybody) and I guess I believe him.

He also was relentless with his outrage and criticism of cheney and his program of torture and rendition. It was every day and I give him points for that.

There are many here who don't like him at all and I gather you're not a fan either. I get it. I can't say you have no good reason. I'm thinking of the infuriating cheerleading for war. Perhaps if I'd been directly involved I might want to tell him to take his sincere apology and stick it up his thoughtful and non-ideological ass.



MADem

(135,425 posts)
41. I think he is a talented debater, I just get a bit weary of his "schtick!"
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:10 PM
Dec 2013

His POV was championed in the march to war; if he'd known then what he knows now, he might have damped some of the enthusiasm.

I also grow weary of his constant "Catholic excuse-making" particularly back in the days when he was insisting that Pope JP was "misunderstood" or that facts were being kept from him. That guy was a wingnut with rosy cheeks and a sweet smile, and his successor was like a villain from Star Wars. This latest one is probably his best hope, but that's nothing to do with him--though he'll probably find a way to take credit for it...!

alfredo

(60,071 posts)
48. He's a fiscal conservative, but a social liberal. That might
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 06:49 PM
Dec 2013

seed some confusion in himself and his readers.

I did love his support of the Greens in Iran.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
59. He wasn't terribly socially liberal when he was screaming for war with Iraq.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 07:46 AM
Dec 2013

I think a lot of his positions come from a desire to be talked about and in the thick of the debate--he insists he is a conservative, and that the conservatives in USA have hijacked the term and they are the "loony right." He justifies his "socially liberal" views as having more to do with "traditional conservatism" whereby government doesn't get overly involved in certain issues, that they be left to the people to be decided. Whatever.

I think he tests the wind, and seeks to aggrandize himself at times with precocious POVs towards issues--a bit of a poseur. This can sometimes "shake up the conversation" but at other times it just reeks of "Look at MEEEEE"-itis. In any event I tend to give his views the attention I think they deserve!


alfredo

(60,071 posts)
66. He draws his definition of con and lib from his native home.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:55 AM
Dec 2013

I see him as being a guy with an opinion and a website. I don't take his words as gospel, but I don't dismiss him because I've disagreed with past stances.

His site is entertainment. Sometimes he's spot on, sometimes full of shit.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
67. That's fiction, too--Maggie Thatcher was Ronnie in a dress. They're as whack-a-doodle as we are.
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 10:56 AM
Dec 2013

I'll agree with your last paragraph, though.

I just can't take the guy very seriously!

alfredo

(60,071 posts)
68. He has no real power over me so I don't get upset
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 11:10 AM
Dec 2013

Over what he says or believes. Like i said, he is a guy with an opinion and a website.

Sometimes Borowitz misses the mark, but I don't denounce him for that.

negoldie

(198 posts)
17. Fox Media
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:03 PM
Dec 2013

Over the last fifteen years or so, Fox Media (I refuse to call it news), and right wing talk radio have done their best to convince the poor and middle class they aren't poor enough while simultaneously convincing the poor the wealthy just need one more tax cut, or lower their wages a little more, and magically it will lift them all out of poverty. Sickening....

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
61. Pope Francis was quoted as saying
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:45 AM
Dec 2013
Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system…. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting.

The_Commonist

(2,518 posts)
19. To revisit this post, let's provide the source.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:18 PM
Dec 2013
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/12/13/how-anti-christian-is-fox-news/

When I first saw the OP, I didn't know if this was a new quote or an old one. My first thought was along the lines of "So you just figured that out, eh?" The OP did not provide a source other than "Quotable Liberals." Sullivan wrote this a few days ago. So, I just wanted to add this here in case anyone wanted to see the quote in context.

Frankly, I don't consider Andrew Sullivan to be a "liberal." Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I actually find him to be quite loathsome, sort of the gay face of fascism. Granted, I've been ignoring him for a decade or so, ever since his hard-on for Bush's War on Iraq. Maybe he's changed. I might be wrong, but I still think he's part of the problem. Tell me he's changed, and I might give him another chance.

Maybe.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
27. He isn't a liberal--he's a conservative who keeps changing his mind and following the crowd.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:45 PM
Dec 2013

See the link to his wiki bio elsewhere in this thread--he's a follower, not a leader.

tclambert

(11,085 posts)
22. Wait, Andrew Sulivan is now a "Quotable Liberal?"
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:30 PM
Dec 2013

He has really changed. He used to go on talk shows defending the policies of George W. Bush. I used to suspect he was Karl Rove's secret gay lover. (Just so you know, it's the secrecy that would trouble me . . . well, and the loving Karl Rove part. The gay part--who cares?)

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
24. This Reminds Me Of Two Things
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:35 PM
Dec 2013

First is a bumper sticker I saw about 5 years ago that said "I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians as they are nothing like your Christ".

The other was the result of an exit poll taken following the 2008 election where they questioned the knowledge of voters on the issues of the day, including the voters primary source for news. Fox News came in dead last while MSNBC edged out PBS for top honor.

Here, Andrew Sullivan marries elements of both into a scathing indictment of Fox News. When our Founding Fathers wrote the First Amendment they clearly did not anticipate the "press" using their power against the interests or their "readers" into brainwashing them to their own agenda. Indeed, where are the protections from a rogue "free press". And while Sullivan has singled out Fox News ABC, CBS and NBC are behaving like wantabe's as you cannot exclude the likes of Jonathan Karl, Lara Logan and David Gregory though only Fox News has asserted their constitutional right to lie.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
37. they clearly did not anticipate the "press" using their power against the interests ...
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:07 PM
Dec 2013

... or their "readers" into brainwashing them to their own agenda.

I don't know why not. It's not like that hadn't been happening for a long time.

I think what they didn't anticipate is all the media being owned by like 4 or 5 people.

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
44. But It Is That Narrow Ownership
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:52 PM
Dec 2013

That permits the other stuff to happen. Without the consolidation we would see a whole different press.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
62. "I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians as they are nothing like your Christ".
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:48 AM
Dec 2013

Is a quote from the Mahatma Gandhi. Actually, it should be "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

DallasNE

(7,402 posts)
69. Thanks. I'm Not Surprised That It Was An Actual Quote
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 12:05 PM
Dec 2013

In hindsight, this does sound like something Gandhi would say.

Working from memory, I came pretty close to getting it right.

QC

(26,371 posts)
26. I can remember when Sully was a key part of the wingnut media machine,
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:42 PM
Dec 2013

the one who enabled other wingnuts to say things like, "Even Andrew Sullivan acknowledges that {insert hateful wingnuttery here}."

Better late than never, I guess.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
34. If you take the teachings of the Bible as parables of life lessons in human nature,...
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 02:33 PM
Dec 2013

...than the entire Right Wing has been using the techniques of the mythical Satan.

That was spelled out perfectly in the movie "Needful Things".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1644867

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
45. He's Seemed To Be Evolving For Some time
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:57 PM
Dec 2013

Every once in awhile some people both start seeing things clearly and have not been doing it for the money. However he got here, it's good to hear him on the right side of a lot of things.

rivegauche

(601 posts)
47. Against Christianity? Who freaking cares?
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 04:45 PM
Dec 2013

They're against HUMANS, the planet, pretty much every stinking thing that scares them. Which is everything.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
51. I just find this quote by him naive. This is not new to us on the left .. we got it long ago.
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 09:14 PM
Dec 2013

I think the ''Roman Catholic thing'' did a head trip on this guy. He might just be self enthralled with his alleged ''intelligence''. Talk about living in a conservative bubble. I noticed also, that if you look at the bottom left corner on the photo is says ''Quotable Liberals''. Oh really? Now he's considered a liberal. He lost me years ago with his support for Bush and his crimes against humanity.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
55. That observation is equally apropos for the "Christian Right," the right-wing agenda and dogma, the
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:17 PM
Dec 2013

GOP, Republicans, "conservatives," and Tea Partyites, all un-American imo: to wit, the antithesis of everything good espoused in our founding principles.

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
56. Walter White tells the TRUTH
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 12:53 AM
Dec 2013

I almost didn't recognize him with the beard.









But yeah, he's right.

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