General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEgalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)imthevicar
(811 posts)and Justly!
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Tigress DEM
(7,887 posts)He was definitely against people who "prayed in public" as a sign of their own goodness.
He advocated the sincerely contrite sinner who knelt in the back of the church vs the loudmouth in the front of the church claiming to know the will of God. He did say to pray in private, but I don't think he was against praying within a community.
He pointed out that sincere prayer can be done alone, but several verses later he taught people to pray the Our Father. This was from the Sermon on the Mount - thousands of people there.
Then he taught people to break bread together and be prayerful about remembering his (upcoming) sacrifice.
I think if people look at the whole of what Jesus said and did they see someone who understood balance and different circumstances calling for different responses. Not every problem is a nail, so not every solution is a hammer.
Jesus DID hang out with prostitutes, doesn't mean he was advocating prostitution. Just not condemning people for their circumstances, being compassionate.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Mount, the text of which does not say Jesus prayed with the crowd but that he offered them a template for a manner of prayer lacking in theatrics and vain repetition of words:
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
Enter you closet, shut the door and do it in secret, not in the religious meeting places or on the streets. That is what is said in the Sermon on the Mount just prior to the example of the Lord's Prayer. 'After this manner pray you' is what is said not 'join me in praying here and now'. He offered the example just after saying never pray in public. I get that chruch folks love to pray in public, but they are decidedly commanded not to do so.
Tigress DEM
(7,887 posts)So HERE is the balance.....
Going to a Synagogue (a place to be seen as a holy roller - a devout Jew, RICH and therefore "blessed by God" and assumed righteous and more intelligent because of money and power accumulated) THAT kind of "public prayer" is show off not substance.
Praying together as a community, in solidarity with no one being "above" the other is different.
Biblical scholars could tell you more about the difference, but although Jesus said you should pray in private and not make a spectacle of yourself like the Pharisees do, he wasn't against people praying together. It just wasn't supposed to be some sort of competition where someone who prays the loudest while standing in front of the church "wins".
Saying the Our Father together is like bringing some guitars to a family picnic and having a sing-a-long vs the Pharisees trying to showboat their "Godliness" was like a staged performance. A lie.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_Mat/Mat_6.cfm
a. And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites: Jesus assumed that His disciples would give, so He told them the right way to give (Matthew 6:1-4). He also assumed that His disciples would pray, and it was important that they not pray in the same manner as the hypocrites.
i. "There are no dumb children in God's house; the least he hath can ask him blessing. All are not alike gifted, but every godly man prayeth unto thee, saith David, Psalm 32:6." (Trapp)
b. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets: There were two main places where a Jew in Jesus' day might pray in a hypocritical manner. They might pray at the synagogue at the time of public prayer, or on the street at the appointed times of prayer (9 a.m., noon, and 3 p.m.).
i. "In synagogue worship someone from the congregation might be asked to pray publicly, standing in front of the ark." (Carson)
ii. "Prayer was not normally practiced at the street corners, but
one who strictly observed the afternoon hour of prayer could deliberately time his movements to bring him to the most public place at the appropriate time." (France)
c. That they may be seen by men: These hypocrites prayed not to be heard by God, but to be seen by men. This is a common fault in public prayer today, when people pray to impress or teach others instead of genuinely pouring out their hearts before God.
i. Such prayers are an insult to God. When we mouth words towards God, while really trying to impress others we then use God merely as a tool to impress others.
d. They have their reward: Again, those praying to be seen of men have their reward, and they should enjoy it in full - because that is all they will receive. There is no reward in heaven for such prayers.
***
e. But you, when you pray, go into your room: Rather, we should meet with God in our room (or, "closet" . The idea is of a private place where we can impress no one except God.
i. The specific ancient Greek word "room" was used for a storeroom where treasures were kept. This reminds us that there are treasures waiting for us in our prayer closet.
ii. Jesus certainly did not prohibit public prayer, but our prayers should always be directed to God and not towards man.
Response to MrScorpio (Original post)
XemaSab This message was self-deleted by its author.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)Tigress DEM
(7,887 posts)Something went wrong at this wedding, however, because they ran out of wine early. In that culture, such a miscalculation would have been a great humiliation for the bride and groom.
Mary turned to Jesus and said,
"They have no more wine."
"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied. "My time has not yet come."
His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
spanone
(135,633 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)loudsue
(14,087 posts)Please.
rgbecker
(4,806 posts)So let's celebrate his birthday (On random day picked by men of old) by getting the word out.
regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)Now, let's see how many people unfriend me in the next few hours.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,626 posts)rustbeltrefugee
(17 posts)Amen
MrScorpio
(73,626 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)Thanks for sharing.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts).....over to the receiving desk where you will need to present your health insurance information along with two forms of I.D. and pay your co-pay in advance." (John 5:8, Tea Bag Version)
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)nikto
(3,284 posts)Jesus's firearm preference.
Some say it was Glock, some say a SIG Sauer, others a Walther.
But I think he was a rifleman.
This is a wonderful thread with a lot of enlightened folks' comments.
But sadly, you guys and gals are rather atypical, in the good 'ole USA.
In America, it seems Jesus can be anything people want him to be.
Perhaps it depends on the nature of a person's "personal relationship" with Him.
Popular quotes in some sections of American Christianity:
[Matthew 10:34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth;
I came not to send peace, but a sword. -- Jesus
["Boom! Ryan in Pa.: Im a Catholic deer hunter.
Im happy to be clinging to my guns and religion "]
======================================================================================
U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794
The Dominionist Threat To the American Military
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/the-dominionist-threat-to-the-american-military/question-2041265/?link=ibaf&q=military+christian+dominionism
I won't go on, but I could, indefinitely.
What makes religion so regressive for some people?
Talk about an enigma.
Tea! Tea! I must have tea!
Tigress DEM
(7,887 posts)with him or her that you do? Of course not.
Think about it. Each person in the world who might choose to relate with your Mom or Dad would know of them the relationship as it is and not as you know them. Same general philosophy. However, there are probably core elements about your Mom and Dad that if someone told you they "knew" your parents and mentioned they did something completely out of character, you would "know" that person was mistaken.
In America, it seems Jesus can be anything people want him to be.
Perhaps it depends on the nature of a person's "personal relationship" with Him.
The "peace" that was supposed to happen isn't external, it's internal. Being a Christian at that time meant really defying authority by not "worshiping the Emperor" or the Roman Gods and potentially dying for your beliefs. Of leaving behind family that rejected your faith. He wasn't leading a war perse but there were still casualties.
STILL a sword of truth that divides people was bad enough. His only weapon ever was his words and one cat of nine tails to evict the money changers in the temple.
nikto
(3,284 posts)Initech
(99,914 posts)intaglio
(8,170 posts)But you have to be careful because much of what is said is "received wisdom" and does not match the Bible or the interpretation we put on it.
Jesus was a radical - nope; he emphasised his adherence to Jewish law and tradition. He never spoke out for womens rights or slave rights.
Jesus was non-violent - nope; he scourged the money changers in the Temple (not outside), foretold fights within families due to his teaching, and asked his disciples to buy weapons.
Hung round with lepers - nope; he supposedly cured one who snuck up to him from amongst a large crowd and the other 10 had to go find him.
Hung round with hookers - nope; Mary Magdalene was not a hooker and the woman taken in adultery would have been a married woman.
Was anti-wealth - arguable; but one teaching was that money would be useless because of the coming apocalypse so you might as well give it to the poor.
Anti-death penalty - I don't think so when he supported the law and the prophets and welcomed the idea of an apocalypse where most of humanity would be condemned to a pit of fire.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)To solve the problem of bigotry based on religious beliefs? Really?