= new reply since forum marked as read
... I'm 'pertnear an old-timer now and I can't make heads or tails out of your post.
Please reiterate. Thanks. 
And Merry Christmas. 
Whenever you voice a desire to consider voting for a third party, you are admonished for potentially allowing Republicans to win.
Whenever you advocate for truly Democratic policy, that the majority o Americans support, you are admonished to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Whenever you decry the abandonment of truly Democratic principles to get "something" passed, you are admonished to play the hand you are dealt.
Whenever you try to hold the President's feet to the fire, to make him do it, as he has often stated, your democratic or liberal or progressive label succumbs to quotes to let you know you are none of these, and are either racist or Republican, which is the same thing.
So the conclusion I have drawn is that all you need do is vote D, and if you have nothing admiring to say, then STFU.
I hope that clarifies how I interpret the political landscape these days.
Merry Christmas to you, fellow DUer!
I hear ya... NOTHING could be more important than re-taking the House and keeping the Senate.
But in this chess-game of politics, there are many different pieces on the board; some of them well hidden.
They hide... because if they were exposed the public would not like it. Yet they have their agendas (and their millions), which may not be our agendas. They will say words we like to hear, and yet take actions we detest.
Right now BOTH parties are at crossroads within themselves...
Traditional Republicans are in a panic at the primary-ing of stalwart conservatives, to become even more conservative.
Democrats, in many ways have lost their way... and sometimes refuse to defend the semi-recent history of the party of the working man/woman, unions, minorities, LGBT, etc...
Yet the polls in this country side with the Democrats... the Progressives... And dare I Say It ???
The LIBERALS.
We have the smarts, the argument, and THE PEOPLE on our side.
If we, as a party, cannot do this thing... then we are ether grossly incompetent...
Or complicit.
And we will. That is the only stance we can take. The mid-term is less than a year away now. My hope is that everyone doubles down after the New Year arrives and gets-her-done! 
:
Since that was his inception?
I don't think they want him in the club.
-p
WE do have our own minds, and WE are using them when we engage in discussion devoid of spite. Can we do that? YES, WE can. So, really, spare me your sanctimony 
Welcome to du.
for my OP.
Please proceed.
This happens to be a debate I am VERY comfortable having.
Please proceed.
Yep. I called that Monday morning whining.
Because it *is*.
I said what I said and I mean what I said, not your projection of whiney spite and bile.
But it does say something that you thought to interpret it in a spiteful way, and then use some "blindly supportive of the status quo" as an impetus to denigrate good DEMOCRATS here on DEMOCRATICunderground.
So to address that whiney, unfocused tripe you are trying to imbue, here's a newsflash for you, and these FACTS remain FACTS despite your attempt to project otherwise:
2014 will come before 2016. *****PROMISE****
Electing more democrats and more progressive democrats at that will help Hillary or Elizabeth or Al or Howard or Joe
and this one's a biggie, and I *know* it *troubles* you, but the FACT remains the same: HILLARY CLINTON IS A DEMOCRAT.
I *know* those facts are 'inconvenient for you.
You're welcome
yet think I'm "creating a wedge" by acknowledging that our party has DINOs and that some dems don't want to vote for them. 
The wedge exists because DINOs don't actually support the same thing that "real dems" do. We foster that wedge every time we vote for a DINO in the belief that it will help us win a majority, and it will continue to exist unless/until the party becomes one thing or the other.
Not that that's a novel experience. 
We need someone from the Democratic wing of the party who understands what has happened to the middle class and will champion our cause against the banksters.
Then I *must* advocate for Wall Street or WHATEVER because I say 2014 is better focus than 2016.
I ***KNOW*** I *must* fit in that category because YOU say so.
There's a vein of these 'absoluters' that remind me of birthers. They just want to be anti HRC, and their if you say "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" you must be in the Rahm Emmanuel camp.
edit: typo
is", it is YOUR PROJECTION. I am glad you don't *hate* her.
Nobody should be labeled a bad "democrat" simply because they refuse to voter for a "democrat" come election time, that doesn't even make sense. I agree with what has been said further up the board that if you want "real" progressives then get them to run for office and vote for them during the primaries. However if the person you don't "want" to win doesn't, then trying to convince other to "NOT VOTE" is just insane.
For those who have to have it their way or nothing at all, well when we get a republican president, and a republican congress, lets see just how happy they are then. We have already seen the damage done because so many were pissed off in 2010 and didn't bother to vote, does anyone really think that we should go that route again?
The goal should be getting republicans out of office, in 2014, then worry about 2016. Without getting rid of the republicans nothing is going to change, no matter what. At least with democrats in charge we have a better chance of getting things done even if they aren't as progressive as we may want them to be.
are a third way person, is just crazy.
But honestly, at the heart of all of those things is really just a bunch of hate toward ONE specific potential candidate…Hillary Clinton.
i've said it upthread, and I will say it again, the "concern" is reticent of birthers.
Oh, and if you think she'd be a good president, you *must* want Wall Street to trump the People.
Awesome post!