I will listen, but I will not "shut up and listen".

[RandySF]

Not until someone fully explains the difference between leering and admiration, or when someone explains why my younger female boss kept me in her office for a half hour leaning over in her very low-cut dress.

[Oakenshield]

1. Someone had to have explained it by now.

What that means for you, is that either you're not a very good reader or you were never interested in the discussion to begin with. Maybe a bit of both. In any event, everyone deserves to be treated respectfully. Women aren't really meek by the way. If they're interested in a fling they will let you know....like...with words. The spoken kind. Since you haven't received such, you should conclude she's not dressed sexually for your benefit but for some other reason. A reason that isn't really any of your business. So her attire should go unnoticed. Do you job professionally and clock out.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

4. darn. he had just submitted an alternative explanation to Penthouse Forum

where's the "recall email" button!!!

[Sheldon Cooper]

15. Excellent response!

It HAS been explained, over and over and OVER again. Those who claim to still need remediation are being disingenuous. And that's the nicest way I can put it.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

2. no. you need to sit down, shut up, and listen

with contrition in your heart and on your face. and none of that sass.

[BainsBane]

3. Take it from a male perspective

Mr. Scorpio explains it well. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4220427

[pnwmom]

5. You really don't know the difference? Here you go:

From dictionary.reference.com:


Leer:
to look with a sideways or oblique glance, especially suggestive of lascivious interest or sly and malicious intention: I can't concentrate with you leering at me.

Admire:
ad·mire
to regard with wonder, pleasure, or approval

Unfortunately, I can't read your boss's mind, so I can't help you with that.

[Skittles]

6. here's a tip

your boss does not represent all women, any more than you represent all men. And if you don't know the difference between "admiration and leering", SURELY you have a female relative or friend you can ask?

[bettyellen]

8. not SO VERY complicated, is it?

*hi*

[Skittles]

9. well, he could try READING actual DU testimonials but that seems to be too difficult

ya know?

[bettyellen]

10. oh, the feigned "not understanding" is not as bad as the ones who want to argue if 1.8 seconds is ok

or maybe 1.9?
if you are that much of an asshole who wants to see how much they can "get away with" - then .5 seconds is probably too much.

One claimed if the person didn't know they were being watched it wasn't creepy. Just NO. That is worse, creeper, it's sleazy and manipulative. Just ick.

[Skittles]

11. aw it's the same guys who claim they "don't know how to talk to women"

they're not fooling anyone

[bettyellen]

13. when you don't realize women are just human beings, and not some prize...

or thing to win….it's not shocking they rely on all these weird techniques instead of normal human interaction.

[Warpy]

14. Well, hell, if they tried that, they might have to listen to what we're trying to tell them

and that would completely destroy their macho, misogynist worlds.

[BainsBane]

7. I'll explain it in terms of how I most often experience it

One, leering gets you no where. Women don't like it. It blows your chances with a woman. Understand that first. If you see the Indian PSA, none of them are actually looking to get to know those women. They are intimidating them. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=32778

The main point is don't make it obvious you're checking out a woman's body. Try to be subtle. I happen to be well endowed, so men look at my breasts a lot, regardless of what I'm wearing. If I have cleavage showing, they will look more. Now if I'm talking to a guy and he stares at my breasts the whole time, I'm not going to be interested in him and will likely extricate myself from the conversation as soon as I can. If I see him glancing occasionally, it doesn't bother me. I understand it's going to happen. The ones who are most adept, however, know how to look without my ever realizing it. We'll be having a conversation, and I won't even realize he's checked out my breasts (I might learn later when I get to know him better).

Now if you're talking about someone you pass on the street, look at her as a person. Look at her face, her eyes, and say hello as you pass. Don't just ogle her breasts, butt, whatever. Look at the person. If you deal with women as full people, you will have much greater success, as Mr. Scorpio points out in the post I directed you to above.

[bettyellen]

12. I am going to argue with you that all women mind it. Where I grew up, people were so starved for

attention, poverty stricken, and many basically taught that a wifey/mom was the best they could ever do in life.
Most had no one talking to them about careers or independence. I knew 12 year olds that dated men 10 years older, women who were flattered that guys who lived with their baby mamas hit on them, sometimes in front of the baby mama. they fought with other girls their guys were seeing on the not too sly- instead of demanding more out of life.

in short, they never expected anyone to treat them well, or had much opportunity to develop self respect. I am very grateful that my parents, especially Dad, modeled true care, respect and affection because I knew a lot of people who never got that, and went for the pitiful crumbs of affection that losers (who would not get it together to take care of a dog, let alone a family) would throw at them.

Depending on the time and place, crap like that has been socially acceptable for eons. Not good for women, but passable in society.

I have to laugh at the jerks who think having *any* standards at all- being unwilling to talk to strangers when they demand it from you- makes you a conceited little princess. All it means is you have enough self respect not to waste time on every single person who asks it of you. Too many women do not know how to put themselves first. It is astounding that so many here are angry that women want to do what they want to do. Just mind blowing that this should offend purported liberals.