Pussy Riot Member: Forced Daily Gynecological Exams In Russian Jail

[ProSense]

Pussy Riot Member: Forced Daily Gynecological Exams In Russian Jail

A musician from the Russian protest group Pussy Riot told The Guardian that her imprisonment included nearly three weeks of forced daily gynecological exams.

"I decided to become a human rights activist when I realised how easy it was for officials to make a decision and force women to be examined in the most intimate parts of their bodies. Russian officials should not stay unpunished, they cannot have this kind of absolute power over us," Maria Alyokhina, who was put in prison for almost two years after a performance critical of Russian President Vladimir Putin, said.

Staff for a public oversight commission confirmed to The Guardian that women in Russian prisons, including Alyokhina, had been subjected to the treatment.

Alyokhina and another member of the group were released from prison Monday.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/pussy-riot-forced-gynecological-exam-in-russian-prison

[treestar]

1. how horrible

I hope this at least causes some national reflection on their lack of freedom, sexism and homophobia

[PeaceNikki]

2. Sick bastards.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Says she.

.

[PeaceNikki]

4. Why would you assume she is lying about it?

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2013-11-how-we-teach-our-kids-that-women-are-liars

[PeaceNikki]

5. There's even a special term for the practice, because it occurs so often in Russian prison system

according to Zoya Svetova, a member of the Moscow Public Oversight Commission.

"Inmates call it 'to be let through the chair' – it is a part of searching process. That is the most humiliating thing for any woman. I am not sure how many times Alyokhina went through it - I guess every time she left the jail to go to court," Svetova said.

http://jezebel.com/pussy-riot-member-says-jail-involved-forced-daily-gynec-1489135517

[dipsydoodle]

6. That contradicts "daily"

so perhaps now you see what I mean about her not telling the truth.

[PeaceNikki]

7. Maybe you should read her words. She didn't write the fucking headline.

Alyokhina described her prison sentence as a time of "endless humiliations", including forced gynaecological examinations almost every day for three weeks.

Zoya Svetova, a member of the Moscow Public Oversight Commission visited Alyokhina in Moscow jail and confirmed that she had repeatedly been subjected to intimate searches.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/23/freed-pussy-riot-amnesty-prison-putin-humiliation

[dipsydoodle]

8. As I said

at best she's exaggerating : at worst she's lying.

I wouldn't have expected otherwise of her.

It was her who used the expression daily.

[PeaceNikki]

9. Yes, Russia is a haven for those seeking be treated like human beings.

Surely the problem is *her*.

ugh...

[Coyotl]

10. I'm sure you heard her say it and you are a scholar in Russian.

Get real!

When everybody has an opinion, usually nobody has any facts.

[dipsydoodle]

12. No

that's what she told the Guardian - its in the narrative.

[joshcryer]

24. "almost every day for three weeks"

Oh far be it for someone who is raped on a on-going basis "exaggerate" for saying "almost every day."

[PeaceNikki]

26. and he ROFL's about it. sick.

[joshcryer]

27. Can you imagine?

Being imprisoned normally you look forward to being able to go out of the prison to a court appearance. But they made it so that even if she thought about her court appearance she would be reminded of her on going "examination" that she had to endure every time.

It's a mind fuck.

What annoys me is I know that poster would be all over something like this if it was a woman inmate here (and that does happen here, because we've seen cases where police molest women under the guise of searching).

[dipsydoodle]

28. That was in response to the same in the post to which I replied.

Nothing else.

Pussy Riot are a lame joke anyway : not worth laugh.

[PeaceNikki]

43. Do you think they deserved to be detained and treated the way they were?

I don't give a fuck *why* you find the discussion or any part of it humorous, it's still fucking disgusting.

[dipsydoodle]

44. Pussy Riot: whose freedom, whose riot ?

Before learning more about the case, the first thing that made me frown was the fact progressives were hailing Pussy Riot as the “new feminists”, despite that their name is fairly insulting to women. It is certainly not apolitical, since we are in a context in which pornography has deeply colonised our movement and the only groups that the media presents as feminist are those that either insult us or reclaim the very instruments of our subordination, that is, male sexual violence, PIV, pornified femininity and all the associated harmful cultural practices. These tactics of destroying the meaning of feminism form part of a general worldwide backlash against women.

I found it suspicious that Pussy Riot was getting so much media attention, even for pseudo feminist standards. You can measure the degree of feminism of an action by how men react to it, and if men collectively cheer and celebrate it, then you can be pretty sure there’s something wrong about it, or that it doesn’t somehow support our liberation from men. And as far as I can recall, even the slutwalks didn’t get as much coverage or public appraisal. What was it that men liked so much about Pussy Riot?

Well, under closer inspection I discovered that the high level of coverage was related to – though indirectly – promoting men’s right to women’s sexual subordination and the pornification of our movement. The arrested women actually form part (and are victims of) a mixed anarchist group called “Voina” (meaning “war”), founded in 2007 by two men called Oleg Vorotnikov and Leonid Nikolaïev, who regularly engage the women in extreme and degrading women-hating pornography as part of their public “political stunts”. Some of Voina’s men have actually already been incarcerated in 2011 for hooliganism – which is punished for 7 years of prison in Russia, but their bail was paid for by an artist named “Banksy” four months after their imprisonment. (More information can be found here and here)

Included in their anti-government actions are a “public orgy” in the national museum of biology in a room full of stuffed bears, where several men anally penetrated their female partners in a position of submission, including one heavily pregnant women, as a metaphor to “bugger/fuck Medvedev”. “Medved” means “bear”, hence all the stuffed bears – this was meant to be symbolic, artistic and revolutionary according to the activists. Here the male anarchists literally used women as dead bodies or receptacles through which to make a political point to other men. Violating women as a means to offend other men is nothing else but an age-old patriarchal mechanism – behind which the intended target are us, for men to bond over our annihilation.

http://radfemworldnews.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/pussy-riot-whose-freedom-whose-riot/

Their background is sufficient for me to consider them to be somewhat less than of any consequence - I wouldn't give them the time of day let alone sympathy. Fortunately their criminal sentences, now subject to amnesty but not set aside, should be sufficient to keep them out of Europe.

It also should be obvious that their westernised choice of name was simply to garner attention from the west. In the Russian media they are referred to Пусси Райот - whatever that may mean.

Is anal sex in public ok in the USA ?

[PeaceNikki]

45. You didn't answer the question I asked. Or... did you indirectly by posting that?

I guess the answer is - yes, you do support the way Russia has treated them.

[dipsydoodle]

46. Indirect answer

but with respect to the specific subject of the OP they didn't deserve that if it is in fact true.

At present they're going through a spell of being paid for articles so I cannot imagine what else they will come with.

Aside from that - The cross reference to Assange elsewhere is both lame and pathetic.

You didn't answer the question re. is anal sex in public ok in the USA ?

[PeaceNikki]

47. I think that blog you posted is a misrepresentation of them.

And it's fucking disgusting that you think it's appropriate to try to trash them in a thread discussing the atrocities that occurred while they were imprisoned for a performance critical of Putin.

People are trying to wrap their heads around why you'd do such a thing. I guess the Assange link is out so that leaves one other possible reason.

[dipsydoodle]

48. The sole reason is that

[joshcryer]

49. Pussy Riot is NOT Voina

People who want to bash Pussy Riot regularly try to connect them to Voina but there is absolutely no connection whatsoever. In fact Pussy Riot is a response to Voina. Tolokonnikova and Samutsevich are the only Pussy Riot members who were involved with Voina and they specifically left because of its disregard for women rights. Putin accused Pussy Riot of having "group public sex" but it was not an action that any members of Pussy Riot itself participated in. Samutsevich and Tolokonnikova left Voina and joined Pussy Riot because they felt the "performance art" was not actually protest. They never did it though. They didn't feel they were consenting to some guys random suggestions of public sexualized actions.

Nudity is not sexual. Only in the minds of western prudes is nudity sexual. That's what Pussy Riot was mocking.

It is shameful that you don't want them to be able to go to EU and are happy that Russia basically released them without acknowledging that what they did was a form of protest.

[Brickbat]

58. The members of Pussy Riot split with Voina some time ago and have nothing to do with many of

Voina's stunts.

[marym625]

79. yep that's disgusting

And notice absolutely no fact behind the "says she." Though this is common, known and verified practice in Russian prisons.

[PeaceNikki]

81. Yup. Which is why I linked to the "We teach children women lie" piece. Seems appropriate.

[marym625]

95. Very much so

Thank you

[CreekDog]

50. Why do you have an avatar with Che on it? Because DU doesn't have one with his executioners?

Maybe you can ask Skinner to find a Putin avatar for you.

[dipsydoodle]

51. Because I happen to like going to Cuba

and as I'm sure you're aware from going there yourself he remains a hero to their population.

[karadax]

52. Didn't Che help negotiate with the Russians to bring the missiles to Cuba ?

Weird little circle there with the OP being about a band in a Russian prison.

[dipsydoodle]

54. Yes he seems to have done so

which the Russians would've welcomed anyway due to the US missiles down the road apiece to them in Turkey..

Overall he was actually more in favour of the Chinese.

Weird circle - if all else fails change the subject to a lame personal attack. Don't worry about it - water off a ducks back here.

[CreekDog]

53. I'm not allowed to go to Cuba.

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.

[CreekDog]

60. ran away from the thread when asked about defending anti-gay laws using RT.com?

yes, run along. we know how you feel.

keep posting Putin's propaganda to tell us Russia's anti-gay laws aren't that bad.

keep posting that Pussy Riot is just exaggerating.

and the thing is, just keep doing it, like you always do, on subjects that you don't claim to have any interest or stake in --keep posting this way without passion or concern, without interest really, to say that gays here, Russians there, or whomever wherever, should not get excited about any bad law affecting us --we shouldn't get any more excited than you are. and you just flat don't care.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=559235

[Skip Intro]

61. After calling Trayvon Martin a racist, CreekDog, you

have a lot of nerve saying anything to anyone else about their views on anything.

[CreekDog]

62. Trayvon Martin was a victim of racism, and I've said so

now run along and go reenact the Battle of Ft. Sumpter.

[Skip Intro]

63. Of course you'll lie about it, CreekDog,

but that doesn't change what you said.

[CreekDog]

64. why don't you call me Cjeekdgg like you did before?

[CreekDog]

65. are you dipsydoodle?

you answered as if you were him. are you?

because my question was to him.

[ProSense]

11. How

"As I said at best she's exaggerating : at worst she's lying."

...often did it have to occur for it not be "exaggerating" in your opinion?

[LiberalLovinLug]

15. Because lying would help her activism?

Sorry, to me she doesn't seem to be a stupid woman. If she was lying, and some prison officials pulled out some kind of verifiable documentation that she never went through these daily exams for those three weeks, then it would harm her credibility.

And also, there is no one denying it from the official side. You are the only one, so far in the world that I have ever heard, question her honesty on this. But I guess when in doubt, question all those that question Putin. He is the Great and Merciful Father of Russia.

[Vashta Nerada]

17. So...those in Russian gulags were lying or exaggerating about their ordeal?

Wow. Just...wow.

[joshcryer]

23. Can you please quote where she said daily?

That appears to be the TPM Livewire exaggerating or lying about what she said.

I see no where where she says that.

[dipsydoodle]

34. TPM re-expressed what you'll find in the Guardian link.

I take it your saying the TPM headline, which is the header for the OP, is rubbish.

[joshcryer]

35. "almost every day" is not the same as "daily"

I am saying they're using hyperbole to further de-legitimize a traumatized person who may have actually felt as if it was happening "almost every day" even if that wasn't literally the case.

[CreekDog]

55. are you going to defend the laws against gays in Russia again?

dipsydoodle (37,598 posts)
10. Exactly what Russia has done here.

http://rt.com/news/russia-gay-law-myths-951/

And that about the 3rd time that's been posted here on DU to separate fact from fiction.

yeah, quoting Putin's news network to make the anti-gay laws in Russia sound better.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=559235

[dipsydoodle]

66. I'd lost that link. Thanks for posting it now.

You'd posted :

are you going to defend the laws against gays in Russia again?

View profile
dipsydoodle (37,598 posts)
10. Exactly what Russia has done here.

http://rt.com/news/russia-gay-law-myths-951/

And that about the 3rd time that's been posted here on DU to separate fact from fiction.

yeah, quoting Putin's news network to make the anti-gay laws in Russia sound better.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=559235

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its booked marked it this time on the PC.

I didn't get that from RT anyway : I got here on DU where it had already been posted by others as was noted in the post you mentioned. I'd have been unlikely to have found it on RT myself.

Thanks again.

[CreekDog]

68. you're saying that you just see links from DUers and if they're reactionary enough you believe them

and repost them for everyone?

this is how you operate? wow. that's pretty sad.

obviously you don't hold the same standard for liberal links, which you argue against, you don't repost and question repeatedly.

but an apologist defense of the Russian anti-gay laws, you don't even question whether or not that's valid.

i guess you ran across the link when you were posting against doing any protests at the Olympics in Russia.

in response to the OP which suggested small protests or gestures might be made, *YOU even had to come out against that*.

you don't want activism or protest, period.

but i don't know what's sadder: that you are that way, or that you are that way and are too afraid to admit it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3393078

[treestar]

57. For three weeks

Maybe she was in court every day for three weeks. That addition of detail makes it more credible.

[roguevalley]

25. I believe her. The soviets put sane people in mental hospitals.

sick, sick, sick. Given the shaky state of the leadership's self image of their manhood with all the gay bashing, this would be up putin's alley.

[marym625]

67. Thank you

For supplying the name and an article about it.

[OmahaGTP]

13. haha

Yeah. I'm inclined to agree with someone walking the activism walk vs someone who has 37,000+ posts on an internet forum that deals in activism.

Unless that's fighting the power for you, in which case, your standards are pretty low for yourself but very high for others.

[Systematic Chaos]

39. Well said!

And welcome to the DU, though I wish I'd have met you in the midst of a more positive discussion.

[msanthrope]

72. Welcome to DU. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

16. "English bloke"

That figures.

[joshcryer]

22. Oh dipsy.

Sometimes it's best not to even comment.

[Systematic Chaos]

38. In all my time on the DU, I've seen many of your posts but we have never really crossed paths.

However, upon reading through this sub-thread, I think it is absolutely galling that -- in a discussion about the presumed repeated rape of a woman whose only "crime" was to criticize her country's fascist leadership -- you would so casually nitpick over semantics. Or, that you would toss Mr. into the discussion in any context when we're talking about rape.

Do you happen to feel the same way about the men in New Mexico who were recently taken to the hospital and repeatedly anally penetrated by hospital staff in the hopes of finding "drugs" which never existed, and which there was not even any probable cause to suspect? Is that funny too?

Bottom line is, it does not matter whether this poor woman was violated once or fifty times while in prison for the offense of speaking her mind in a concert venue. With that in mind, I find it hard to believe that the DU is the place for such debate and undertones of insensitivity to the issue. But YMMV and all....

[gollygee]

90. +1

[marym625]

93. Bravo!

Or brava. Didn't check your profile.

Either way, well said

[msanthrope]

40. This fits with your pro-RT/Assange stance. nt

[PeaceNikki]

42. Jesus Christ, *that* is why that poster is accusing her of lying!??!

WTF?

[msanthrope]

74. Well, yes. I've observed a handful of posters who routinely align themselves with rape apologia

---most noticeable in the Assange threads. They have a decided pro-RT stance, and are pretty silent about Putin's anti-gay laws.

[PeaceNikki]

76. disgusting. that poster is also citing a Putin site to refute homophobia.

Nice.

[msanthrope]

77. Watch out...you'll be called an authoritarian! nt

[marym625]

56. Are you over the age of 10?

What a naive and ridiculous comment. Back it up with some facts and maybe you will get somewhere.

[PeaceNikki]

73. it was also confirmed by Russian oversight personnel.

As is indicated in several articles, including the text of this OP.

Again, why do you think she is lying?

[Vashta Nerada]

14. I'll respond to this non - divisive OP on this issue.

This is absolutely sickening. I feel bad for her. No one should ever go through forced examinations like that.

[RainDog]

18. Russian attacks on homosexuals align with their attacks on women

And the religious right in Russia has a lot to do with both of them.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Why would this kind of forced penetration

not qualify as rape?

Absolutely sick that this is going on.

[maindawg]

20. Excellent point

We have the same laws right here in the land of the free. These are fascist policies. Creeping fascism is destroying our country too. As far as Russia or whatever they call themselves, its kind of obvious that Putin is a dictator after about 25 years now.

[nilesobek]

37. Putin is Russia's Bush Sr.

The parallels between their careers in spy agencies is eerie.

[Cha]

21. Bless her heart for being such an

intrepid activist in Russia!

"Staff for a public oversight commission confirmed to The Guardian that women in Russian prisons, including Alyokhina, had been subjected to the treatment."

Mahalo ProSense

[davidn3600]

29. This type of thing happens even in America

And you don't even have to be in prison. We got cops in Texas that do cavity searches on the side of the road and the courts give them that authority to do it at anytime.

[Niceguy1]

59. russia takes prison security very very

seriously. From what I hear it's next to impossible to smuggle in contraband. In some prisons the prisoners are hooded and never see what the prison looks like except the inside of their cellso if they try to escape they get lost

I bet to searches coincided with trips from the prison to court

[Soundman]

84. It took about 20 seconds to find this gem

http://brookingblog.com/2012/04/21/officers-look-up-prisoners-anus-84-times-in-three-weeks/ degradation isn't just for women.

Something about the whole article seems suspicious to me. Not saying it didn't happen, I wasn't there. But when I read one sided articles like this, they never seem to answer the question why.

[PeaceNikki]

85. um, did you totally miss this part?

"Staff for a public oversight commission confirmed to The Guardian that women in Russian prisons, including Alyokhina, had been subjected to the treatment. "

[dennis4868]

30. wait...

what country did Snowden run too?

[stevenleser]

31. I think that is why there is pushback against her claims in this thread.

Snowden supposedly ran from the US as part of his protest against NSA spying, and in doing so fled to China and Russia, two countries that spy as much as they want and certainly have no internal checks against doing so. Not only that, their penal system and treatment of women and LGBT makes ours look positively enlightened, and we have a way to go on both counts.

And of course, both China and Russia are using the Snowden incident to prevent the US from engaging them on a host of human rights issues. The answer to all of the issues we raise is "But you spy, see Snowden"

Snowden didn't unearth any new info, he released info to China and Russia and gave them a talking point to allow them to ignore any questions from us about their human rights practices. That is Snowden's contribution.

Give that person credit for recognizing that all Russian and Chinese human rights abuses reflect badly on Snowden at this point. That person is playing effective politics in protecting the person he or she wants to protect (Snowden). Unfortunately, that also has the effect of throwing everyone in Russia and China adversely affected by their human rights practices under the bus.

[freshwest]

96. Just stumbled on this today, thanks steven.

[JI7]

32. snowden is a joke, has he even criticized russia and china ?

[stevenleser]

33. Nope, and he won't. His agenda isn't to make the world better, it's to hurt the US. nt

[joshcryer]

36. More like he can't.

If he was in Venezuela or Ecuador he might.

But then Wikileaks is too connected to Russia for us to get any real info about Putin's New Oligarchs.

[msanthrope]

41. I await the Greenwald column on this atrocity. I'm sure that right after Snowden

decries this, and Julian Assange releases everything he has on the Russians, we will see an ens ro this practice, spearheaded by Putin.

Yeah...I'm hittin' the Christmas cheer....

[JNelson6563]

69. Hear, hear!!

Well said!

[davidn3600]

70. Well America has no place to talk about such things...

Our human rights in our prison system is just as horrid...

America makes up 5% of the world population yet houses 25% of the world's prisoners. We got more prisoners than Russia and China combined. And most facilities are incredibly overcrowded. Medical and dental care is worse than what people get in 3rd world countries. There are reports of medieval practices to treat injuries and infections. Cancer symptoms are routinely ignored. Many inmates say their blood pressure hasn't been taken in years. Prison facilities and healthcare is frequently contracted out to private companies who dont have any motive other than profit.

Russia also banned the death penalty. No one has been executed (at least not officially) since 1996. America still cheers when a prisoner is put to death, and the public loves to make jokes about people being raped in prison and consider such acts part of the punishment.

[msanthrope]

71. Wait...so Greenwald can't decry both? You'd think a journalist of his self-trumpted merit

would be able to do that.

[ProSense]

75. The OP

"Well America has no place to talk about such things..."

...is not an official statement. People who oppose atrocities speak out against them all the time. Should Americans who oppose Repbulicans' attempts to legalize forced vaginal ultrasounds not do so? Should LGBT activists not voice disapproval of actions or laws that violate human rights here and abroad? Should people refrain from calling out Russia or Uganda because there are despicable assholes in this country? There is a reason the American RW celebrates those countries.

Religious right leader backs Russian crackdown on gay rights

By Steve Benen

The crackdown on gay rights on Russia is stunning in its scope, and offers a reminder that Russia "remains a country where discrimination and even violence against gay people are widely tolerated." But while much of the West has condemned Vladimir Putin's new efforts, the offensive is not without American backers.

Voice of Russia is the government's official international radio broadcasting service, and last week, it ran a report touting comments from the American Family Association's Bryan Fischer, a prominent leader of the religious right movement here in the U.S., who spoke to VOR at some length.

"Russia is not being homophobic, it's homorealistic -- the Russian government is trying to take the issue into consideration and establish public policy to contribute to public health, as this lifestyle is not be promoted, endorsed or granted special legal protection", the expert said, warning of high health risks linked to this lifestyle.

He cites the Center for Disease Control that has monitored the HIV epidemic since 1987 and determined that 61% of HIV-positive males had sexual contacts with other males. "Homosexual behavior is just as risky as drug abuse," Fischer said.

"I think the Russian government is right to be concerned with propaganda on teenagers who are at the age of struggling through sexual identity issue and we should help to channel these urges in productive behavior. Heterosexuality is God's design. Policies that encourage young people to think this are good ideas."

<...>

Note, Fischer's not the only one in the U.S. cheering Russia on. As we talked about a while back, the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute said it "admires" Russia's anti-gay moves; Peter LaBarbera of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality lauded Russia for rejecting "America's reckless and decadent promotion of gender confusion"; and the Illinois-based World Congress of Families has scheduled its 2014 conference for the Kremlin...then, of course, there's evangelical activist Scott Lively...sounds familiar, it's probably because of his work in Uganda, where he brags he is known as the "father" of the anti-gay movements. When Uganda took up a "Kill the Gays" bill, proponents said it arose out of an anti-gay conference that Lively headlined in 2009. Earlier this year, the Washington Post reported that Lively has spent the last decade working "systematically to strip away human rights protections from LGBT people" around the world, becoming "a kind of persecution consultant, strategizing with influential leaders and cohorts in other countries about ways to further silence and remove LGBT people from basic protections of the law."

And wouldn't you know it, Lively conducted a 50-city speaking tour of Russia in 2007, where he recommended the very measures Russia is now pursuing. From an AP report last year:

"Russia could become a model pro-family society," he wrote. "If this were to occur, I believe people from the West would begin to emigrate to Russia in the same way that Russians used to emigrate to the United States and Europe." <...>

"Russians, even after glasnost, are comfortable with an authoritarian style," he said. "That wouldn't work in the United States."

- more -

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/12/19989091-religious-right-leader-backs-russian-crackdown-on-gay-rights

American Family Association's Fischer: 'Uganda stands with' Duck Dynasty star

by Hunter

American Family Association "Director of Issues Analysis" Bryan Fischer:

Uganda stands with Phil. Makes homosexuality contrary to public policy. It can be done. http://t.co/QeEvVkfBGa
— @BryanJFischer

The story Fischer approvingly links to:

The Ugandan Parliament announced Friday that it had approved legislation imposing harsh penalties on gay people, including life imprisonment for what it called “aggravated homosexuality,” effectively brushing aside previous objections to antigay legislation from outside powers, including President Obama. <...>

Specifically, the law — officially titled the Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009 — provides for a 14-year jail term for a first conviction and “imprisonment for life for the offense of aggravated homosexuality,” a Parliament announcement said. <...>

In 2011, a newspaper published a list of gay people and urged readers and policy makers to “hang them.”

The American Family Association has been designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/20/1264274/-American-Family-Association-s-Fischer-Uganda-stands-with-Duck-Dynasty-star

[davidn3600]

78. People are trying hard to use this as an attack on Snowden

For some reason, people here think by pointing out Russia's abuses it's supposed to automatically make us the "good guys." Well, that's bullshit right there. I've never defended Russia on anything. The Kremlin is just as evil as the NSA in my view. But just because Russia has human rights problems doesn't mean America is all that much better.

The NSA is violating our civil and constitutional rights every day with Big Brother peeking over everyone's shoulders. Our police is becoming militarized. We lead the world in incarceration. We invade sovereign nations. We are killing civilians in the mid-east with our drones. Yet, I am supposed to put all this aside and pretend America is the greatest nation on the planet because it happens to be the lesser of two evils? Fuck that.

[PeaceNikki]

80. And others are using it to attack the victim. They are just as disgusting as the abusers.

[ProSense]

83. What does

"People are trying hard to use this as an attack on Snowden...But just because Russia has human rights problems doesn't mean America is all that much better...Yet, I am supposed to put all this aside and pretend America is the greatest nation on the planet because it happens to be the lesser of two evils? Fuck that."

...criticism of Snowden have to do with claiming that "America is all that much better"? Who is asking you to "pretend"?

Bryan Fischer gets called out because he's a despicable asshole. Is anyone asking you to "pretend" that he isn't?

[stevenleser]

89. When you flee your country saying "JE ACCUSE!!!" and then go someplace demonstrably worse

in virtually all civil liberty categories, it paints you as a hypocrite.

[treestar]

94. We are a lot better than Russia on human rights

Taking the line we are just as bad is silly.

Snowden deserves to have it pointed out that he "fled" to a much worse place. Spying? LOL, we are WAY better than Russia on that.

[anti partisan]

82. There's 2 huge differences

1. Russian atrocities are already being reported by the mainstream corporate U.S. media, reducing the need for someone like Greenwald to use up his precious time exposing abuses.
2. Greenwald/Snowden are uniquely positioned to actually have an impact on ending NSA abuses due to their access to primary sources which expose the shameful programs. There's human rights abuses worse than the NSA in nearly every country in the world, but Greenwald/Snowden have their niche where they can actually make a difference. They should use their power to influence the world for the better, and the ball's in their hands regarding the NSA. Not so for other world abuses.

[msanthrope]

86. So...reporting on rape would "use up (Greenwald's) precious time?" Did you actually just write that?

You know we can hear you, right?

[davidn3600]

91. There are lots of journalists that have written about prison abuses here and abroad

First off, a lot of the public simply doesn't care. So those stories don't get much play. As you can see, there are people in this very thread that dont care such abuse happened to that woman. That has nothing to do with Snowden because I've seen people simply blow off such reports time and time again.

Second, before Snowden there was no one reporting about the mass surveillance. Before Snowden's revelations, anyone that said the things he's been saying would have been labeled a conspiracy loon.

Third, Putin is an ass. That's not exactly breaking news that requires a journalistic special report to reveal. Snowden didn't run to Russia because they have some great history of human rights and freedom. He's been trying to get out of Russia since he landed there. He's there and forced to play nice with the FSB because the USA regards him as a traitor for revealing to the public that their Constitutional rights are being trampled on by the NSA. It's a massive blow to the intelligence community and they want to punish him severely to stop future whistleblowers.

If you think Snowden could come back here and get a fair trial, you are nuts. They will make sure he's put away for 30+ one way or another, just like Manning.

[anti partisan]

92. Ultimately yes, it would.

I said "precious time" somewhat tongue-in-cheek but yes ultimately journalists should focus on areas in which they feel they can have the maximum impact. He should encourage others to report on rape, but ultimately there's only so much one journalist can do.

Basic economic theory states that a job will get done more efficiently if there are specialized individuals reporting on their topic of specialized interest. So Greenwald, a former US Constitutional and Civil Rights attorney should probably be reporting about Constitutional issues and civil rights. And there will also be plenty of people with more than enough background on psychology, sociology, criminology, etc. to report on rapes, violent crimes, and other horrible things that go on.

[madrchsod]

87. i wonder.....

it would be interesting to fit the "nearly three weeks of forced daily..." into a time line. was there any negative world
press at that time? it seems to me that someone ordered this as a retaliation/punishment.

i wonder who has the power to given that order?

[dipsydoodle]

88. You will find somewhere or other above

that it seems to be common for prisoners in Russia to be searched in such a way prior to a court visit there.

A simple search will also demomonstrate it to be standard practice with the men held at Gitmo who have yet to be even charged.

[uhnope]

97. K&R. I don't care how old this OP is