BE A MAN

[Matariki]

saw this on a friend's facebook feed and thought it fit with the recent discussions here. This topic is a much a concern of feminism as the way girls and women are treated.

http://www.upworthy.com/theres-something-absolutely-wrong-with-what-we-do-to-boys-before-they-grow-into-men

There's Something Absolutely Wrong With What We Do To Boys Before They Grow Into Men

- Joseph Lamour

"Be a man" is something we've all heard at one time or another, even a few of the women reading this right now. Being a "man" in that sense means something completely different to me (and maybe you, too) than what that phrase implies.

I can't even begin to describe the toll that the concept of masculinity has taken on my life. And it's felt everywhere. It's time we make changes, starting from within ourselves.

[Xipe Totec]

1. IF - Rudyard Kipling's poem, recitation by Sir Michael Caine

[seabeyond]

2. the words. my son is big into poetry. i am sure he has read. but going to ask.

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

[freshwest]

17. That poem carried me through many dark days. Odd, my copy didn't have the last line. No matter. n/t

[LWolf]

3. I agree.

As the mother of sons and the grandmother of one boy, I know that this is real, too. Fortunately, no matter the expectations from the rest of the world, my boys, as kids, adolescents, and adults, have always had at least one safe haven where they could be themselves, could feel what they felt, could express what they needed to: me. And now, their wonderful SOs.

My students had a conversation about this recently, when I showed them the video in the link below. My boys were very sober, somewhat awestruck, that the boy in the video, a popular "jock," had the courage, not only to cry publicly, but on tv. The cultural expectation for boys to "be a man," an unhealthy and unrealistic caricature of "a man," is alive and well in their lives.

[Matariki]

4. that's happy

thanks for posting that.

[seabeyond]

8. ya... hugz. good for you showing hte boys in your class. kick ass. my son saw also.

he teared up too. he saw the short of the film. he loved it so. none of this is hard. and it frees the boys to create their own definition of masculinity that will not look anything like the media.

good for you teacher, from the heart, i so value my teachers for boys, but when they do this, it is a step of beyond, in my book. giving them an extra gift.

[BainsBane]

5. The issues are entirely connected

Those most concerned about "attacks" on men through posts like the Indian PSA on street harassment seem to buy into these patriarchal views of what manhood means. Not only that, they insist there is something innately biological about it. I find that sad because it unnecessarily constrains how they see their options in life. No one need fit into some mold just because that's what you saw your father or the movies portray.

[Matariki]

6. I honestly can't figure out the backlash on that

It seems it must be one of a couple things, the most benevolent one being simple misunderstanding. It seems that some people saw that post and took it as a personal criticism on the very normal occurrence of noticing people they're attracted to. I've wondered if more patience and dialog could help people understand each other where that's the case. The less benevolent reactions were, I expect, mere trolling desire to get a rise out of people and start a flame thread.

[BainsBane]

7. Some didn't even watch the PSA

and decided to make a big deal about men "looking at women." The one who started the thread about creep shaming admitted he never even watched the PSA. So they stir up shit and blame feminists for attacking men, when they in fact have distorted the issue completely and decided to put themselves under attack. One continues to repeat the door meme, after being shown repeatedly that no feminist actually raised it as something that bothered them. It's all part of an effort to discredit women's concerns. What bothers me is that people fall for it.

If the idea that treating women as equal human beings is too radical for some, the Democratic Party doesn't seem to be the place for them. The majority of Democratic voters are women and people of color. There is no legitimate reason for working to discredit those views on a site that is meant to be organized around support for that party.

Anyone who reads the cave will see that those members are completely in agreement with the site's feminist bashers. That ought to tell people something.

[niyad]

9. one phrase that has always made me a bit crazy is telling a boy whose father has died or divorced

that he is "the man of the house".

[el_bryanto]

10. Yes - that is very disturbing on a number of levels

First of all isn't it basically saying "your childhood is over." Secondly doesn't it imply that as the male he's responsible to take care of the household property - including, apparently, the women of the house. It's pretty lousy.

Bryant

[seabeyond]

11. yes. i have had men tell my boys that when dad goes out of town and i tell him, with my

boys standing right there. they are boys. i am the adult. i am the woman of the house.

drives me crazy that ANYONE would give this to a boy.

do we EVER tell a girl she is a woman. EVER. for any reason.

think of ALL the many reasons in our societal conditioning why we would never tell a girl she is a woman. we cannot even get adults to call grow adult women, women. it is lady or girl

says a hell of a lot. even if we pretend it is no big deal.

words matter.

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. We are at a turning point in society. Men need to redefine what manhood and masculinity mean. nt

[Clint0n]

13. First time poster, Long time reader

Wow..I had to start an account to reply and plus this up (once I figure out how to do that)

Umm.. basically I agree with every word, but here are some phrases I picked out:
"...not secure in their masculinity."
"prepare your mask"
"handle it on your own"
"your not supposed to get help"
"posturing, based on how the other boys are posturing" (one upsmanship)
"man up" <- the worst, it basically means fuck what you feel, act harder.
"be a man" the implied peer pressure.

I'm 33 now and just starting to recover from this shit (recovering from alcoholism too go figure..) Unfortunately I work in an auto shop, where this kind of behavior is prevalent, along with other behavior discussed recently on DU... The "be a man" culture tends to disregard women too, when the opposite should be true. It's so f'ing stupid, I don't think any men have male friends that they share their feelings with. It's like a disease that gets past down from generation to generation in schools, sports, etc.. I will tell the poster that I, for one, have changed.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling post, it's my first one!
Thanks for the forum DU, you guys and gals rock!

[redqueen]

14. Welcome to DU!

[seabeyond]

15. you authentic self. it will set you free.

and what a ride that will be. so very friggin (i stopped cussing)(maybe) awesome, for you

take care of you

welcome.

and thank you for sharing

you have gotten VERY good at this.

sharing

and how much healthier and balanced and grounded you will be.

getting into my yin/yang per another thread, . i play.

[Matariki]

16. For all of us - stuff gets passed down generation to generation

and the best we can do is become aware of what doesn't work anymore, or is hurtful, and try to change it.

Welcome to DU Clint0n