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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:45 AM

ODD: “If you’re outraged, you must be mentally ill.”

Remember those bumper stickers that said,
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention"?
Well, now it seems that "If you're outraged, you must be mentally ill."



Nonconformity and Freethinking Now Considered Mental Illnesses

Is nonconformity and freethinking a mental illness? According to the newest addition of the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), it certainly is. The manual identifies a new mental illness called “oppositional defiant disorder” or ODD. Defined as an “ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior,” symptoms include questioning authority, negativity, defiance, argumentativeness, and being easily annoyed.

MORE:
http://theunboundedspirit.com/nonconformity-and-freethinking-now-considered-mental-illnesses/

88 replies, 9114 views

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Reply ODD: “If you’re outraged, you must be mentally ill.” (Original post)
kpete Dec 2013 OP
hobbit709 Dec 2013 #1
Octafish Dec 2013 #2
LeftofObama Dec 2013 #3
L0oniX Dec 2013 #30
longship Dec 2013 #4
pinboy3niner Dec 2013 #6
longship Dec 2013 #11
GoneFishin Dec 2013 #38
idwiyo Dec 2013 #5
Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #7
MindPilot Dec 2013 #8
L0oniX Dec 2013 #24
pinboy3niner Dec 2013 #43
LineLineLineLineReply .
L0oniX Dec 2013 #50
pinboy3niner Dec 2013 #52
ananda Dec 2013 #37
QuestForSense Dec 2013 #40
nolabear Dec 2013 #77
QuestForSense Dec 2013 #81
nolabear Dec 2013 #83
QuestForSense Dec 2013 #85
nolabear Dec 2013 #88
kestrel91316 Dec 2013 #68
nolabear Dec 2013 #75
dotymed Dec 2013 #9
Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #12
dotymed Dec 2013 #25
Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #10
Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #15
MrMickeysMom Dec 2013 #22
YarnAddict Dec 2013 #66
Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #72
zeemike Dec 2013 #29
Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #35
arcane1 Dec 2013 #58
nolabear Dec 2013 #78
truebluegreen Dec 2013 #13
Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #17
awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #49
truebluegreen Dec 2013 #56
loudsue Dec 2013 #14
Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #16
loudsue Dec 2013 #20
Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #28
Wounded Bear Dec 2013 #18
davidthegnome Dec 2013 #19
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2013 #21
idendoit Dec 2013 #23
jtuck004 Dec 2013 #33
idendoit Dec 2013 #36
jtuck004 Dec 2013 #42
treestar Dec 2013 #54
nilesobek Dec 2013 #71
treestar Dec 2013 #84
Ichingcarpenter Dec 2013 #26
pinboy3niner Dec 2013 #45
L0oniX Dec 2013 #27
JNelson6563 Dec 2013 #31
dlwickham Dec 2013 #32
L0oniX Dec 2013 #46
enlightenment Dec 2013 #34
MineralMan Dec 2013 #39
dsharp88 Dec 2013 #41
mountain grammy Dec 2013 #47
L0oniX Dec 2013 #48
mountain grammy Dec 2013 #44
WinkyDink Dec 2013 #53
Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #51
chknltl Dec 2013 #55
1monster Dec 2013 #57
Name removed Dec 2013 #59
gopiscrap Dec 2013 #63
radicalliberal Dec 2013 #60
Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #67
sendero Dec 2013 #61
Dirty Socialist Dec 2013 #62
LWolf Dec 2013 #64
Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #70
Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #65
Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #69
Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #73
nolabear Dec 2013 #74
diabeticman Dec 2013 #76
nolabear Dec 2013 #80
LeftyMom Dec 2013 #79
Lint Head Dec 2013 #82
1000words Dec 2013 #86
Bandit Dec 2013 #87

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:50 AM

1. Given the conditions of contemporary society, how can one claim the "normal" person is really sane?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:51 AM

2. Someone wants to identify and label those who notice the world is crazy.

Makes it easier for the rich to get richer off wars for profit without end.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:52 AM

3. I guess I'm guilty!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:53 AM

4. I am completely outraged by this!!!



Well, somebody had to do it.

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Response to longship (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:03 AM

6. Luckily for you, there's a room open...

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:13 AM

11. ROFL!! Good one.

But now I am really outraged.


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:59 AM

5. Heh, there you go. Lefty nutcase calling in!

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:05 AM

7. Not this lefty. I'm a perfessional.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:08 AM

8. This is why I think psychiatry is borderline quackery.

 

Mental illness is not considered as something actually gone wrong in someone's brain. It is simply a cluster of behaviors and attitudes that "society" happens to find objectionable at a particular moment in time.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:48 AM

43. ...says the guy with a bug in his sigline

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

50. .

 

I really enjoy getting people to laugh.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:01 PM

52. Mostly, you just get us to swat our screens for a while

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:22 AM

37. Yes, the so-called "science" of the oppressive mental health system ...

... isn't science at all. It's just circular assertion.

Big pharma loves it, though.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:40 AM

40. Which explains why they no longer talk with the person anymore.

They simply write a prescription.

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Response to QuestForSense (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:24 AM

77. This is not true. Few, very few write prescriptions w/o some talk and a referral.

There are many psychiatrists who are med providers and in fact do only schedule people for a half hour or so once they've got a history and established a diagnosis. The vast majority of those people refer the patient for talk therapy, CBT, DBT, RET, AA, group therapy or a host of others.

I know it's tempting to claim, but with exceptions that are scorned mightily by most of us in the mental health field and such circumstances as prisons and other abusive exceptions, psychiatrists care and try to help.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #77)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:23 AM

81. I'm sure there ARE psychiatrists who care and try to help.

But the prescription pad does seem to be today's preferred method of treatment. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, a branch of the CDC, the number of Americans age 12 and older taking antidepressants now comprises fully 11% of the total population of the United States, which amounts to some 34 million people. Despite the high numbers, the Institute estimates that only about a third of those people who suffer from clinical depression take antidepressants. The report also highlights the growing trend among the population as a whole to turn to medications to solve problems that were once considered something people should deal with in other ways, such as psychoanalysis.

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Response to QuestForSense (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:14 AM

83. I know. I'm a psychoanalyst. Getting coverage for effective talk therapy is nearly impossible.

At the analytic institute where I'm faculty, we get many a trainee who is stunned by the desolation of prescription pad psychiatry. For people who genuinely care about human relationships that kind of work is mind and soul numbing, but insurance companies recognize neither mind nor soul. We are under absolute assault by insurance companies who second guess our diagnoses, limit the number of sessions we can have, threaten to put practitioners who advocate extended treatment on a "list" with the vague threat that future requests for coverage will come under special scrutiny. We're constantly caught between our patients, who come to us in desperate and varied need for all manner of thing from genuine brain dysfunction to chronic grief to the inability to stop engaging in extremely harmful behaviors. We work like dogs, often for considerably reduced fees, in order to actually be of help.

I've told many a patient that I believe in meds when necessary, that I leave those decisions ultimately up to them out of respect, but that I am not in the business of drugging someone in order to help them stay in their shitty lives (in so many words...I tend to be blunt).

I could go on and on but that's just my frustration coming out. Thanks for listening.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #83)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:31 PM

85. Thanks for educating everyone re insurance companies and talk therapy.

Few could have known this; I certainly didn't. And thank YOU for listening.

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Response to QuestForSense (Reply #85)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 07:55 PM

88. You're welcome. Lots of good folks leave the business because it's been made so hard.

And it's godawful for the poor people we see, who just want to get better, but have a long road sometimes.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:43 PM

68. Well, schizophrenia IS something gone wrong with the brain.

 

But as for an awful lot of other mental issues, I tend to agree.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:15 AM

75. Well, let's see you sit back, watch a terrified, hysterical, suicidal patient and explain that.

Your post is ignorant of the realities of mental illness. My own opinion is that we lump too many things under that rubric, but that's not the professional, that's society. If you're hallucinating or have to touch the door a hundred and fifty times so your child won't die it's a little hard to make the argument that you'd be fine if the problem was just considered normal.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:11 AM

9. I have been called odd

when I rant about fascism in america to the clueless, I guess I am ODD and proud of it.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:15 AM

12. If you're past adolescence, then you're not ODD.

At least according to any credible medical criteria that I've been able to find. Good luck finding an actual psychiatrist who will give you that diagnosis.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:59 AM

25. Lol, I am somewhat past adolescence

and I do not want that diagnosis.
I want an America for and by the people, the majority.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:11 AM

10. Posting urban legend as fact.

According to all sources that I've looked at, it is described exclusively as a disorder of children and adolescents.

According to Wikipedia (admittedly not the best source, but then, neither is yours) it has been recognized in the DSM since 1980, so is not a "new" disorder. It is also recognized by the WHO, though with somewhat different criteria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder

I have seen not a single legitimate medical source where ODD was in any way equated with adult nonconformity or being a freethinker.

This is the guy responsible for your claims:

"My name is Sofo. I hold a BSc in Psychology and an MA in Philosophy, although to me true knowledge comes only through experience and not from parrot-like learning. I deeply enjoy traveling, long walks and late-night conversations, but what I enjoy most is just being part of this wonder-full existence."

Doesn't sound like a terribly reliable source to me.

We have enough real problems in this country. We don't need to fixate on invented conspiracy theories.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:30 AM

15. Yes, ODD has been around since DSM-III (1980), and Yes it's a disorder of childhood.

It is seen as a sort of precursor to Conduct Disorder. If the "symptoms" persist into adulthood, it is labelled Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Wherever you see ODD, look very carefully at the child's environment. As far as I'm concerned, ODD is often a childhood form of "raging against the Machine." The preponderance of ODD kids are opposing and defying crazy and intolerable circumstances in their lives.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:43 AM

22. I don't follow DSM data really, but was interested...

In order to be anti-social as an infant, or pre-adult, it would have to be compared to norms of THAT society, mainly "the home environment, and some school and play, where other adults are still responsible for that norm.

I'd say the norms have changed since 1980, when the entire homeless environment got tweaked a la Reagan et al… Sounds like they'll need a new panel of "experts" to re-evaluate the "disorder".

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 01:56 PM

66. I don't think environment is the answer

 

I have a niece who probably fits the ODD bill. My sister once described her daughter's behavior as "No one is going to tell her what to do." No one included parents, teachers, grandparents, and everyone else. And she was that way from birth! She simply refused to sit in a stroller, a high chair, a car seat, and if you actually made her, she screamed bloody murder til you let her out! Later she skipped school to the point where they were threatening to throw her in ail for truancy. She was in and out of trouble for years. She finally sorted things out for herself when she had her own child. Claims he saved her life. She could finally see what she was doing and what she needed to do to turn things around.

Her younger brother, raised in the same environment, was the most compliant child ever.

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Response to YarnAddict (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:08 PM

72. I think I was fairly careful not to be absolutist in my comment.

However, my database is a couple thousand criminals I did psych evaluations on across a couple of decades, and there were certainly some patterns there.

All behavior is the result of an interaction between environment & inherent traits. Some people do well in any given reasonable environment, while others will be driven up the wall by being forced to sive in the same environment.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:04 AM

29. He is a nut case for sure.

Anyone who likes long walks and late-night conversations is suspect.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:17 AM

35. Nothing wrong with liking long walks and late-night conversation

It just doesn't indicate any level of medical expertise.

I tend to think that anyone giving those as their credentials is probably posting information that's highly colored by their own biases and agendas.

That's just me though. Everyone is entitled to utilize their own criteria for determining what they think are the most accurate sources of information.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:26 PM

58. Hey, you keep your calm rationality out of this! You hear?

 

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:26 AM

78. Thanks. You're exactly right. The OP is completely w/o merit.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:16 AM

13. automatic gain-saying...

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:21 AM

14. If this is really true, that is a VERY dangerous precedent.

This book is used extensively in court cases, and in cases involving placement in detention homes, etc. Some school counselor can brand a kid in a really bad way with this kind of diagnosis, and the legal system can have a field day with someone who needs to be controlled.... Malcom X, Jesse Jackson? Hell, even Al Sharpton! Bill Maher? This is a bad bad diagnosis tool.

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Response to loudsue (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:31 AM

16. This has been happening for decades now. ODD isn't new.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:39 AM

20. Wow. That really sucks.

There needs to be a different definition for non-conformists.

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Response to loudsue (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:03 AM

28. ODD does not refer to adult non-conformists.

One of my issues with DU is the tendency to take any post at face value, without doing any of one's own fact checking or independent verification. A five minute Google search will debunk most of the claims made by the OP.

I'm not saying there are no potential problems with the diagnosis, but, as has been pointed out, it's been around since 1980.

As nearly as I can tell, being an adult non-conformist has not yet been made into an illness, though I wouldn't rule out its happening at some future point.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:34 AM

18. Well, I read the thread...

So, it's a disorder of childhood.....OK.

The Repubs in Congress have been acting rather childish and obstructionist. I say we have a match!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:35 AM

19. Hmm

Well, I'm outraged and I have PTSD. However, if I were otherwise "perfectly normal" and NOT outraged, I would consider that a far more likely symptom of mental illness. This ODD reminds me of something they called "Adolescent Rebellion Disorder" or something like that. I mean, good luck meeting a kid who does NOT have that one.

There are irresponsible physicians who will eagerly pull out that prescription pen just to shut these kids up - or to shut their parents up. Yet there are those who, more logically, would scoff at the notion. Psychiatry has a very... hmm... "colorful" history of inventing deranged cures for imagined illnesses. When it comes to dealing with the real thing though, the success rate is rather limited. It's not because Doctors and social workers don't care, or don't try. It's because our understanding of the human mind is still very infantile.

All that having been said - this kind of nonsense seems to make a mockery of real mental illness and trauma. It is particularly insulting to people like me who must live with it. The only thing truly ODD here, is that anyone at all takes this kind of nonsense seriously... especially supposed medical professionals.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:39 AM

21. You mean this is not fiction?

 

I should put down the pen.

On the other hand, this goes straight to the research notes

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 10:50 AM

23. Not the way diagnosis reads in DSM-V.

 

As usual non-clinicians read things into diagnostic criteria that are not there. There is clear guidance on the frequency typically needed for a behavior to be considered symptomatic of the disorder.

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Response to idendoit (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:08 AM

33. Be careful how otten you point that out. The same article mentions "arrogance, narcissism" too.n/t

 

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:18 AM

36. Not how manual the reads.

 

The article claims that this is a diagnosis from the DSM-IV, which is no longer in use.

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Response to idendoit (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:45 AM

42. It was from the DSM-IV, as stated. And it exists in the DSM-V, and has been changed. n/t

 

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Response to idendoit (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:13 PM

54. OP article is indeed silly

People getting outraged about what they don't know about and don't fully understand, without even trying to understand. Do they think the entire psychiatric profession is now helping out the 1% or what ridiculous theory they can come up with? Maybe the DSM needs a category for outrage junkies.

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Response to treestar (Reply #54)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:18 PM

71. If you fanatically resist

the powers that be could set up mental health courts prior to having "troublesome," persons removed. This whole country is smelling like Russia during communism. The message is, "just take whatever happens calmly and keep your thoughts to yourself."

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Response to nilesobek (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:18 AM

84. No it's a very specific DSM category

Which in a place like Russia - the symptoms of it might not be tolerated and treated as a mental disorder.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:01 AM

26. Krishnamurti quote

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Jiddu Krishnamurti


Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/jiddukrish107856.html#2TKGRpsvpf4sCRMW.99



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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:02 AM

27. If you are NOT outraged you must have had a lobotomy or live under a rock.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:06 AM

31. Oh dear gawd, we have an epidemic!!1!

Of course I call it emotional immaturity but that probably wouldn't convince people they need expensive drugs so I can see why they chose the title they did.

Julie

On edit: I am referring to the list of symptoms in article only. Being outraged about the injustices that go on every day, everywhere is quite reasonable IMO. What you do with it though, that is where things can go wrong.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:06 AM

32. it's a childhood disorder

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a childhood disorder described by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) as an ongoing pattern of anger-guided disobedience, hostility, and defiant behavior toward authority figures that goes beyond the bounds of normal childhood behavior. Children suffering from this disorder may appear very stubborn and often angry. A diagnosis of ODD cannot be given if the child presents with conduct disorder (CD).[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder

- The child often loses control of himself;
- The child behaves aggressively;
- The kid argues with his parents and other adults and do not obey to them;
- The child deliberately irritates others;
- The kid is apathetic or cannot play with other children;
- The child with oppositional defiant disorder is often angry or nervous;
- The kid refuses to comply with the rules (at school and at home);
- The child is too stubborn;
- The kid often occur hysterical attacks;
- The child with oppositional defiant disorder cannot communicate normally with other children;
- The kid does not want to study or engage in other organized activities;
- The child with oppositional defiant disorder symptoms remembers the hurt for a long time and do not forget to remind about them.

http://oppositional-defiantdisorder.net/

of course it sounds more like the kid is nothing more than just a brat

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:52 AM

46. More drugs for our children ...hurry!

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:10 AM

34. Being a teen is now a condition.

That will work out great for the pharmaceutical companies. Drug them into compliance and when they turn 18 they're magically cured.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:36 AM

39. Needing some topic to blog about, this writer

deliberately or mistakenly got the whole thing wrong. You have to love the Internet. It allows random people to post incorrect stuff freely and helps to disseminate such incorrect writings.

Thanks for helping to spread this further.

Now, I shall turn my attention to my upcoming essay about the disastrous effect of the bee propolis shortage on world health and its impact on nuclear proliferation.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:44 AM

41. I always said the Republican Congress is mentally ill.

Their unjustified obstruction of anything mentioned by Obama, including their own ideas, proves it.

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Response to dsharp88 (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:54 AM

48. Hey! Be nice! Racism IS a mental illness too.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:50 AM

44. Sounds like most teenagers thoughout the years, myself included.

Lot's of money to be made here, past, present and future.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:03 PM

53. Can you say "Ritalin"? I thought you could!

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:00 PM

51. It all depends. If such behaviors and attitudes are chronic

 

And significantly interfere with one's life then it probably could be called mental illness.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:16 PM

55. I agree with everyone else

I am not nuts but I am convinced that everyone else is.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:19 PM

57. I've been around kids labeled ODD and they were extreme... not just kids in need of

discipline (self and otherwise). I'm not sure if it is a mental disorder, but it is certainly something beyond nonconformity. These kids need structure, consistancy, counseling, and therapy.

I don't belive that ODD should be a diagnosis, however, but is definitely a symptom and can be used to help find the underlying cause of the symptom.

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Response to kpete (Original post)



Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:27 PM

60. IMO this is a very dangerous view.

I could be wrong; but it seems to me that many, if not most, social reform movements have been started by nonconformists.

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Response to radicalliberal (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:42 PM

67. It would be even more dangerous

if anyone in the psychiatric profession were actually promoting it.

The article in question has nothing to do with reality.

I will save my alarm for if they ever actually do come up with something that pathologizes non-conformity.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:37 PM

61. This is nothing new..

... and as far as I know is generally only applied to children.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 12:39 PM

62. "Where's The Outrage???"

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 01:18 PM

64. I have to call bullshit.

Yes, various conditions can be over-diagnosed and mistreated.

But Oppositional Defiant Disorder is REAL.

I know. My grandson was diagnosed, once we got him away from his very troubled mother and got him the physical and mental health treatment he needed.

We're not talking about people who question authority, who think independently, who resist conformity. I do all of those things myself; hence my screen name on DU and the consistent attacks here for not being a good enough Democrat. So does my son, his father, who is even more so than I. Neither of us, though, is ODD.

ODD is an extreme. It has several causes. In my grandson's case, neglect, abuse, lack of supervision, inconsistent and harsh discipline through the age of 4...definitely.

The person with ODD has control issues, and takes those issues beyond the edge of extreme. Even at the age of 3 or 4. They will do ANYTHING to "win," including endangering and hurting themselves and others. They don't respond to the ways most kids learn civility or how to make appropriate choices. Adults in their family have to be trained to go outside their own experiences to make any progress at all.

They don't need medication, unless it's addressing a related condition. They do need intensive therapy and training in self-management and choice making, and their families need training in how to interact with them to help move things in positive directions, rather than feeding the problem.

This blog was written by an anonymous person referencing an article written by someone only identified as "Andrew," with no last name, no qualifications given for the statements made. When "Andrew" has had to put a 4 yo into a restraining hold to keep him from extreme violence to himself and others around him; when he's stood under a very tall tree, terrified that the 4 yo will fall after he scrambled up faster than adults could reach him, afraid to climb after him for fear he would throw himself onto the rocks below, hoping that if he fell he could be caught, and knowing that no "coaxing" in the world would get him down; when he's had to chase a 4 yo over a fence and into miles of public forest that he could be lost in for way too long, with that 4 yo looking back at him with a feral grin because he was "winning;" when he's had to find a way to get a 4 yo to eat when he's made up his mind not to...for 2 days...when he's had a 4 yo unlatch his seatbelt and launch his arms around the driver's neck on the highway, only to take off across that highway in the midst of traffic when the car was pulled over for safety...

When he's had to give up his job so that he can show up at school at any given moment to remove his child; when his entire adult life is given to therapy, counseling, a special school for children with these kinds of problems, and all trips into the public arena are determined by whether or not the child is in a good enough place that day to do so safely...when it takes 8 years of all of that therapy and retraining to get to a point that the child can interact, privately and publicly, with civility and reasonable behavior, but STILL has control issues which he struggles to manage every day...

When he wants to give his full name and his qualifications to speak authoritatively about mental illness...

then "Andrew" can make pronouncements about whether or not ODD is real. Until then, I'll stick with my grandson's team of doctors and other acknowledged authorities whose credentials can be checked.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/oppositional-defiant-disorder/DS00630

http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Resource_Centers/Oppositional_Defiant_Disorder_Resource_Center/FAQ.aspx

http://smhp.psych.ucla.edu/qf/behaviorprob_qt/ODD.pdf

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/mental_health_disorders/oppositional_defiant_disorder_90,P02573/

Interestingly enough, when an ODD student enters our school, I'm the one called to assist the assigned teacher, or, if the child is in my grade level, he or she will be placed in my class. Why? Because there are specific strategies for working with these kids, and I've already been trained.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 01:24 PM

65. I bet the folks fuming about the black guy in THEIR White House are all aflutter over this.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:48 PM

69. They probably are, because believing in this is on a par with believing in birtherism.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #69)

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:15 PM

73. The funniest thing is a Moran claiming to be a Rebel as they represent The Establishment.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:09 AM

74. Oh Honey, this Dx has been around forever. And it's a real disorder, though becoming obsolete.

It's not what you think. First, it's generally a child's diagnosis, and it's actually fallen in the pantheon as we understand more about attachment and emotional regulatory systems. You're barking up the wrong meme.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:19 AM

76. Tell me this is some freaking joke article from onion-type website.

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Response to diabeticman (Reply #76)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:29 AM

80. No, but it's a completely misinformed claim. Numerous debunkings in the thread.

ODD is a childhood Dx and is nothing like what is claimed in the OP. Trust me; I'm a professional.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:27 AM

79. That's not what ODD is and ODD isn't a new diagnosis.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:25 AM

82. Perfect way to imprison people who do not agree with society or the government.

Declare them insane and a danger to society.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:35 PM

86. "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:59 PM

87. As Sen Inhofe once said when americans were outraged to learn of our torture program

"I am outraged over the outrage"

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