Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:35 PM Dec 2013

I refuse to apologize for being a Democrat.

I'm not apologizing to anyone who doesn't feel I've passed some kind of progressive litmus test.

I'm sure as Hell not apologizing to any Republicans, Tea Baggers, Cave Dwellers, or Freepers.

65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I refuse to apologize for being a Democrat. (Original Post) OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 OP
Nor should you! hrmjustin Dec 2013 #1
Never apologize for standing up for what you believe. crazy homeless guy Dec 2013 #2
No one is asking you to. WowSeriously Dec 2013 #3
Uh ok billhicks76 Dec 2013 #4
I am completely with out on that. WowSeriously Dec 2013 #12
And I won't apologize for calling Blue Dog policies useless. [n/t] Maedhros Dec 2013 #5
I'm with you on that. WowSeriously Dec 2013 #13
I wouldn't say "useless." I would say "predatory." woo me with science Dec 2013 #37
+8,749 Scuba Dec 2013 #43
Predatory is a better description. Maedhros Dec 2013 #56
Nobody asked you to. Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #6
As a liberal who supports public education, no cuts to Social Security, help for unemployed.... madfloridian Dec 2013 #7
I am with you on that. WowSeriously Dec 2013 #14
What is a "progressive litmus test"? Is it too demanding? madfloridian Dec 2013 #8
Apparently the litmus test is: Maedhros Dec 2013 #15
I think the litmus test is supporting Democratic values WowSeriously Dec 2013 #16
It is refusing to cut down the party treestar Dec 2013 #21
It's not my job as the opposition to the Republicans to advocate for Republicans Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #35
+8,749 Scuba Dec 2013 #44
North Carolina Republicans didn't give everyone a voice... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #54
I won't apologize for being a progressive liberal tblue Dec 2013 #9
I am with you on that. WowSeriously Dec 2013 #17
I refuse to apologize for being a Liberal. Rex Dec 2013 #10
I am with you on that. WowSeriously Dec 2013 #18
We have nothing to Cha Dec 2013 #11
You mean like Max Baucus? Enthusiast Dec 2013 #19
No they are not treestar Dec 2013 #22
I'll tell you what is ridiculous. Your post. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #23
It is ridiculous and also a tag team tactic, the OP was a 'drive by' and so someone Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #33
No, pal. I went to bed after I posted, then went to work. Now I'm here. OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #48
By failing to support electable (if by your standards) imperfect Dems in purple districts OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #52
I'd always rather have somone who will support placing Dems in party leadership positions OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #49
Oh BULLSHIT. There would never have been a chance to PASS it and you know it. If you don't have a RBInMaine Dec 2013 #26
Oh, bullshit back at you. How big is the tent when we don't allow a discussion on a health care Enthusiast Dec 2013 #29
Silly. The insurance corporations were allowed to discuss it with Max. They are people too. L0oniX Dec 2013 #50
I'll never apologize for being a BobUp Dec 2013 #20
Seventeen techniques for truth suppression woo me with science Dec 2013 #24
Excellent post. Thanks. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #28
^^^this^^^ deserves its own op. L0oniX Dec 2013 #51
So, you're saying I'm waxing indignant? OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #53
That is one good list. Thorough. Enthusiast Dec 2013 #58
Oh dang, someone made a list! Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #65
Makes sense, this being DEMOCRATIC Underground and not "PURIST Underground" as some want it to be. RBInMaine Dec 2013 #25
Nor should you. Laelth Dec 2013 #27
Good quote. nt TBF Dec 2013 #30
Curses on Truman for creating that divisive statement treestar Dec 2013 #38
LOL. Laelth Dec 2013 #40
This strikes me as an affected posture. Has anyone ever actually asked you such a Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #31
It was also a hit-and-run OP. Laelth Dec 2013 #32
I did notice. I also notice that the understudy is not very good. Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #34
A lot is from 3rd party folks who could care less of representation in red districts/states. great white snark Dec 2013 #36
How about apologizing for drive by hit and run threads? hootinholler Dec 2013 #39
I didn't ask you to. LWolf Dec 2013 #41
K & R Scurrilous Dec 2013 #42
Jeepers! OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #45
My turn to say "Jeepers" madfloridian Dec 2013 #46
I refuse to apologize for being a Democrat who votes his principles. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #47
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #55
I take it this means you won't be donning the hair shirt and undertaking the self-flagellation? Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #57
Really that's not my scene OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #60
Those you mentioned in your second sentence are the ones who owe all of us an apology! calimary Dec 2013 #59
Damn straight! OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #61
And they better NOT call themselves Christians, because if they sneer at the poor, calimary Dec 2013 #63
I'm not sure what this is about but I'm recing just because of the nasty comments you got Number23 Dec 2013 #62
Happy New Year! OmahaBlueDog Dec 2013 #64
 

WowSeriously

(343 posts)
3. No one is asking you to.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:08 AM
Dec 2013

And I won't apologize for making the good be the enemy of mediocrity.

And I won't apologize for selecting replacement cards rather than playing the hand I'm dealt.

And I won't apologize for holding Democratic pols' feet to the fire.

And I won't apologize for making them do it.

And I won't apologize for demanding the Democratic Party support Democratic policies that reflect Democratic values.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
4. Uh ok
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:14 AM
Dec 2013

I for one won't apologize for criticizing the democratic party for being taken over by corportists at the leadership level and straying from their previous democratic values which are labeled progressive.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
37. I wouldn't say "useless." I would say "predatory."
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:58 AM
Dec 2013


They are not centrists. They are building corporate fascism.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024222542#post2

When the DLC connections to the Koch Bros. became well known, they just rebranded the infiltration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4165556

When you hear "Third Way", think INVESTMENT BANKERS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024127432

GOP Donors and K Street Fuel Third Way’s Advice for the Democratic Party
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101680116

The Rightwing Koch Brothers fund the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

Same companies behind the GOP are behind the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1481121

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
7. As a liberal who supports public education, no cuts to Social Security, help for unemployed....
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:19 AM
Dec 2013

I feel the same way. I will not apologize for being outspoken on those topics.

I am a Democrat also, and I am tired of being treated as lesser because I disagree with some stances of our party.

By the time Arne Duncan is through with dismantling public schools, the system will be run by a corporate few. That is intolerable to me.

They need to take any cuts to Social Security, by any name, even superlative CPI, off the table for good.

Every Democrat needs to be shouting out about how the GOP is blocking the extension of unemployment benefits. They should not have waited until they are ended to make a fuss about it.

I make no apologies.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
15. Apparently the litmus test is:
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:24 AM
Dec 2013

"Don't dismantle the programs Democrats fought long and hard to put in place."

 

WowSeriously

(343 posts)
16. I think the litmus test is supporting Democratic values
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:25 AM
Dec 2013

rather than Third Way (wrong way, no frigg'n way, DLC way) values.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
21. It is refusing to cut down the party
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:14 AM
Dec 2013

because some of its members are not progressive enough. It is refusing to be unreasonable about the fact Republicans are worse and still have power. Also it is not trying to discourage everyone here against Democrats. It is also understanding that in a country with Republicans, some compromise has to be made, as Republicans count too. It's not a matter of "bravery" but of the separation of powers and everyone gets a voice. It is recognizing that the Presidency is not all powerful and just because the President wants something, doesn't mean he gets it. It is refusing to be a Gloomy Gus because life is not perfect right now and refusing to give up, as we are often encouraged to do.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
35. It's not my job as the opposition to the Republicans to advocate for Republicans
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 09:49 AM
Dec 2013

I say Republicans only count if they can, all by themselves, get their opinions forward and accepted, it sure as fuck is not my job to seek fair treatment of those whom I utterly and totally oppose.
All that so called compromise with Republicans around the ACA netted not one Republican vote for the ACA, so the fact is the 'compromises' were simply demands made by Blue Baggers and Tea Dogs on the right side of the Democratic caucus. They removed the Public Option, not Republicans. They did it. Obama promised again and again not to sign a bill without a strong Public Option, then in the end he did what Max Blue Dog told him to do. Not one Republican vote. You say Republicans count too, but not one of them voted for ACA, not one, and yet it is a law. Do you think it should not be a law, because the poor Republicans did not count in that debate?
I will not apologize for seeking the total destruction of the Republican Party. I say they don't count at all. I say, in fact, fuck the Republicans, thwart them, defeat them then laugh about it.

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
54. North Carolina Republicans didn't give everyone a voice...
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:25 PM
Dec 2013

when they seized power this year. In fact, they destroyed DECADES of progress in a matter of MONTHS. The Democratic Party blew it in early 2009, when it controlled the House, Senate and White House. It can be done, the party just chose not to do it. Criticize Republicans all you want, they know what to do with power when they get it.

Drop the silly "President isn't all-powerful" meme -- no one thinks that. Seriously, it's stupid.

And who are all these voters so prone to giving up? So easily swayed by a random blogger, a DUer, a Corporate Media newsbunny?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
10. I refuse to apologize for being a Liberal.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:41 AM
Dec 2013

And fuck all authoritarians, they make DU and America suck almost as bad as the GOP does!

Cha

(297,154 posts)
11. We have nothing to
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:16 AM
Dec 2013

Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:30 AM - Edit history (1)

"apologize" for, OBD.

Proud to be a Democrat and Appreciate that I'm living in these times when Obama is President!

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
19. You mean like Max Baucus?
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 07:07 AM
Dec 2013

The asshole that wouldn't allow a discussion of single payer health care.

Blue Dogs are often more destructive than Republicans because they are mistakenly placed in positions of trust—like Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
22. No they are not
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:16 AM
Dec 2013

They are always better than Republicans. It is ridiculous to refuse to recognize the political realities. If only the Democrats had "balls" they could force the Republicans to vote that way. How ridiculous. Is it better to have Boner in a position of trust than Pelosi? I swear you people are so, friggin, unreasonable!

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
23. I'll tell you what is ridiculous. Your post.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:21 AM
Dec 2013

As if I implied that Pelosi would be more destructive than Boner. Talk about unreasonable.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
33. It is ridiculous and also a tag team tactic, the OP was a 'drive by' and so someone
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 09:36 AM
Dec 2013

has to fill in. OP lacks the basic courage to discuss on a discussion board.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
48. No, pal. I went to bed after I posted, then went to work. Now I'm here.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:43 PM
Dec 2013

In addition to being a Dem, I refuse to apologize for work and sleep.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
52. By failing to support electable (if by your standards) imperfect Dems in purple districts
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:57 PM
Dec 2013

...we end up with a Republican majority, and Boner and Cantor in leadership positions.

NE-2 is a perfect example of this. An "Elizabeth Warren Progressive" won't unseat Lee Terry. It's going to take someone more in the mold of a Ben Nelson.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
49. I'd always rather have somone who will support placing Dems in party leadership positions
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:47 PM
Dec 2013

Even if that somebody votes the party line 70% of the time due to local considerations.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
26. Oh BULLSHIT. There would never have been a chance to PASS it and you know it. If you don't have a
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:43 AM
Dec 2013

big tent party, then you have NO party, and that is why the R's are shrinking. Let them be the purists. We need a big tent.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
29. Oh, bullshit back at you. How big is the tent when we don't allow a discussion on a health care
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:57 AM
Dec 2013

system that most Americans are interested in? No chance to pass? And why was there no chance for it to pass?

Baucus and other representatives of the medical services industry and the health insurance industry didn't want to discuss single payer because of the support the discussion would generate. Surely you can admit that.

Republicans with a D beside their name have no appeal for me.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
50. Silly. The insurance corporations were allowed to discuss it with Max. They are people too.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:54 PM
Dec 2013


Actually it still pisses me off that a sell out democrat like Max (if you can even call him a real Dem) was given the task.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
24. Seventeen techniques for truth suppression
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:38 AM
Dec 2013

Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:02 PM - Edit history (2)

Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression*
http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5

Strong, credible allegations of high-level criminal activity can bring down a government. When the government lacks an effective, fact-based defense, other techniques must be employed. The success of these techniques depends heavily upon a cooperative, compliant press and a mere token opposition party.

1. Dummy up. If it's not reported, if it's not news, it didn't happen.

2. Wax indignant. This is also known as the "How dare you?" gambit.

3. Characterize the charges as "rumors" or, better yet, "wild rumors." If, in spite of the news blackout, the public is still able to learn about the suspicious facts, it can only be through "rumors." (If they tend to believe the "rumors" it must be because they are simply "paranoid" or "hysterical.&quot

4. Knock down straw men. Deal only with the weakest aspects of the weakest charges. Even better, create your own straw men. Make up wild rumors (or plant false stories) and give them lead play when you appear to debunk all the charges, real and fanciful alike.

5. Call the skeptics names like "conspiracy theorist," "nutcase," "ranter," "kook," "crackpot," and, of course, "rumor monger." Be sure, too, to use heavily loaded verbs and adjectives when characterizing their charges and defending the "more reasonable" government and its defenders. You must then carefully avoid fair and open debate with any of the people you have thus maligned. For insurance, set up your own "skeptics" to shoot down.

6. Impugn motives. Attempt to marginalize the critics by suggesting strongly that they are not really interested in the truth but are simply pursuing a partisan political agenda or are out to make money (compared to over-compensated adherents to the government line who, presumably, are not).

7. Invoke authority. Here the controlled press and the sham opposition can be very useful.

8. Dismiss the charges as "old news."

9. Come half-clean. This is also known as "confession and avoidance" or "taking the limited hangout route." This way, you create the impression of candor and honesty while you admit only to relatively harmless, less-than-criminal "mistakes." This stratagem often requires the embrace of a fall-back position quite different from the one originally taken. With effective damage control, the fall-back position need only be peddled by stooge skeptics to carefully limited markets.

10. Characterize the crimes as impossibly complex and the truth as ultimately unknowable.

11. Reason backward, using the deductive method with a vengeance. With thoroughly rigorous deduction, troublesome evidence is irrelevant. E.g. We have a completely free press. If evidence exists that the Vince Foster "suicide" note was forged, they would have reported it. They haven't reported it so there is no such evidence. Another variation on this theme involves the likelihood of a conspiracy leaker and a press who would report the leak.

12. Require the skeptics to solve the crime completely. E.g. If Foster was murdered, who did it and why?

13. Change the subject. This technique includes creating and/or publicizing distractions.

14. Lightly report incriminating facts, and then make nothing of them. This is sometimes referred to as "bump and run" reporting.

15. Baldly and brazenly lie. A favorite way of doing this is to attribute the "facts" furnished the public to a plausible-sounding, but anonymous, source.

16. Expanding further on numbers 4 and 5, have your own stooges "expose" scandals and champion popular causes. Their job is to pre-empt real opponents and to play 99-yard football. A variation is to pay rich people for the job who will pretend to spend their own money.

17. Flood the Internet with agents. This is the answer to the question, "What could possibly motivate a person to spend hour upon hour on Internet news groups defending the government and/or the press and harassing genuine critics?" Don t the authorities have defenders enough in all the newspapers, magazines, radio, and television? One would think refusing to print critical letters and screening out serious callers or dumping them from radio talk shows would be control enough, but, obviously, it is not.

_____________________________________________________
*Thanks to Matariki for reposting this list recently.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
65. Oh dang, someone made a list!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 07:49 PM
Dec 2013

That means that if you're described by an item in the list, you automatically lose!

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
27. Nor should you.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:44 AM
Dec 2013

But you might want to remember Truman:

I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman


-Laelth

treestar

(82,383 posts)
38. Curses on Truman for creating that divisive statement
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:02 AM
Dec 2013

It is meaningless. Especially now. A Democrat is a Democrat. If some of them hold positions you can't stand, start another party. There is no way to kick someone out of the party if you don't agree with them. The party's only function is to make a team to be able to get elected, as no one can do it alone. There's no point in being divisive about that. None whatever. Nothing is gained. It does not change the party platform. It does not change the opinions of the voters. It is useless and Truman made a useless statement there. He should have done something helpful in states so conservative that Democrats thought they'd lose if the ran on the New Deal.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
31. This strikes me as an affected posture. Has anyone ever actually asked you such a
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 09:32 AM
Dec 2013

thing? If so, who? It sounds made up. Untrue, false, hyped up, a constructed pretense of indignation pulled out of thin air.
I'm a liberal Democrat, LGBT, in the arts and no one has ever asked such a thing of me, they'd not dare.
It just sounds fakey. Posy, centrist fakery. Anyone could gin up such a statement. If they care nothing for basic honesty.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
34. I did notice. I also notice that the understudy is not very good.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 09:40 AM
Dec 2013

There is always some volunteer speaking in plurals as if their job was to defend the OP rather than to speak for themselves.

great white snark

(2,646 posts)
36. A lot is from 3rd party folks who could care less of representation in red districts/states.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:08 AM
Dec 2013

Notice the Southern bashing on DU? That's the ugly purity brings out.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
41. I didn't ask you to.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:20 AM
Dec 2013

You be what you are, and if you are a neoliberal enabler, I'll continue to give my respect and attention elsewhere. If you are an old-style, left of center liberal, I might listen now and then.

I'm not sure what a Democrat IS anymore, but I know it's generic enough to mean little out of context.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
45. Jeepers!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:27 PM
Dec 2013

Hi, everybody upthread

I'm going to see if I can address some of the comments here, rather than posting a whole slew of answers.

To those who expressed support or rec'd the thread: Wow! Thanks!

To those who said "Nobody asked you to" or words to that effect: Last night there were a whole series of "I refuse to apologize" threads in GD. Being a Democrat seemed like something to refuse to apologize for.

To those who attack my screen name or Blue Dogs generally: I vote for Democrats; have given money to Democrats; and have even phone banked on an occasion or two. Do I support a fair minimum wage -- closer to $12-15 an hour? Absolutely. Do I support the ACA? Absolutely. If it serves as a stepping stone to single payer, OK; if it becomes the way the US does healthcare, OK. Either way, it beat the alternative, which was if you couldn't afford healthcare, don't get sick.

OTOH, would I like to see Joe Manchin continue in the Senate despite his flaws -- yes I would. Do I wish Ben Nelson had stayed in the Senate and run against Deb Fischer? yes, I do. Do I think it is axiomatic that every single idea from every single Republican is bad, or unworthy of discussion. No , I don't. Do I think Elizabeth Warren is always rignt? No I don't, but she's right most of the time.

Over my time at DU, I've been accused of everything from wanting to dismantle the social safety net to wanting to sew seeds of division on the site, which is amusing given that I'm a relatively non-controversial, low key poster. The majority of what I post are articles of interest or outrage that are found elsewhere.

Nevertheless, I don't apologize for my views. I don't expect anyone to apologize for their views. I do wish we would spend far less time attacking one another (outside the context of primaries), and instead focus on attacking Republicans.

Also, I support Hillary Clinton as the next President of the United States. I won't apologize for that either.

To those who accused me of being a hit and run poster: OK, I posted this late last night. Then I had to sleep. Then I had to actually do some work. This is the first time I've gotten to review the thread.

To Mad Floridian I'm very happy that you made it over to DU3. Your voice was missed during your hiatus.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
47. I refuse to apologize for being a Democrat who votes his principles.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:42 PM
Dec 2013
"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man."
--Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
57. I take it this means you won't be donning the hair shirt and undertaking the self-flagellation?
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:22 PM
Dec 2013

Tut-tut, the overlords shall be most displeased.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
59. Those you mentioned in your second sentence are the ones who owe all of us an apology!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:02 PM
Dec 2013

I wouldn't apologize to any of 'em, either! I'm PROUD to be a Dem, a Liberal Dem, a Progressive Dem, I wear that label with pride. If Jesus had been around, physically, now, guess which party he'd be more in line with? YES. The one where - if you want to go forward you select D. If you want to go backwards, your choice is R.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
61. Damn straight!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:23 PM
Dec 2013

Once, I remember when Nixon and Goldwater were considered nuts. By today's standards, they seem like moderates. I have never seen a group with such contempt for Americans who struggle with poverty.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
63. And they better NOT call themselves Christians, because if they sneer at the poor,
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:52 PM
Dec 2013

then they can't be true followers of Christ. Christ was all about the poor. Of the poor, by the poor, and for the poor. We would all do well to take note.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
62. I'm not sure what this is about but I'm recing just because of the nasty comments you got
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:28 PM
Dec 2013

from all of the usual suspects. Happy New Year to you.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I refuse to apologize for...