This is how far the NSA has fallen:

[riqster]

http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/this-is-how-far-the-nsa-has-fallen/

"The tech industry now considers the National Security Agency to be a “threat”, and a bunch of “malicious hackers”. This is a direct quote from Apple, after they found out that the NSA has been secretly hacking our iPhones. Our tech industry now classes a government agency as being equivalent to spies, thieves, anarchist nutjobs and other such scumbuckets.

This writer agrees, and since he is writing this post on a iPhone, he offers this cheery message to the NSA: “F*** the lot of you, in whatever manner would be the least pleasant and most painful. F*** you, NSA, and the computer you rode in on.”

The NSA took the laws they got from the Bushistas and ran like Forrest Gump, with no one holding up a sign saying “stop”. And now they are hated, reviled, and have been revealed to be hurting our nation instead of protecting it.

The laws that have allowed the NSA to become an enemy of the American people need changed, of course; the reason they were able to do all of this stems from the early Oughts when an Administration with no respect for the Constitution ran roughshod over the rule of law. It’s long past time to correct those many wrongs.

Meanwhile, if Apple thinks the NSA is a load of malicious hackers, you’d be well advised to pay attention. The NSA is now our enemy. And for an agency of the federal government to have descended to such a lowly and despicable status is a tragedy worthy of Sophocles."

Source material at the link.

[villager]

1. "when an Administration with no respect for the Constitution ran roughshod over the rule of law..."

Hopefully we'll get a Constitutional Scholar in the White House someday, who will make it a priority to correct these obvious abuses!

[riqster]

2. Even better would be a congress that would re-write those laws.

And judges to deal with the laws as they are supposed to.

[villager]

4. Agree that having all three branches respect the rule of law would be best...

Hopefully, the Executive will use its bully pulpit in that regard...

[BlueStreak]

21. It isn't just one administration. This is no different from what J Edgar Hoover

was doing 100 years ago. Only the technology has improved to the point that it is not possible to have virtually 100% electronic surveillance.

This would be Hoover's idea of heaven.

[BlueStreak]

22. And something that isn't often mentioned

Hoover used his information regularly to blackmail elected officials. We may not have conclusive evidence that the NSA is behaving likewise, but only a fool would assume it could not happen.

Remember all the gnashing of teeth about the risk of JFK's affairs making him vulnerable to blackmail? Well the potential is 10,000 times greater now. And it is not just about whether an elected official leads a virtuous life. The NSA and CIA are rogue operations. They are accountable to nobody. They play by nobody else's rules. They are in a position to put any President over the barrel, with threats to mess up any of the goals the President might want to accomplish, or to create world instability that will result in a loss in the next election.

This ain't beanbags.

[Uncle Joe]

43. Presidents, Congresspeople, Justices, Judges, Would be candidates, activists, political opponnents,

law enforcement, corporate executives, journalists, etc. etc. etc. the list is endless as to who the NSA can put over the barrel.

Remember all the gnashing of teeth about the risk of JFK's affairs making him vulnerable to blackmail? Well the potential is 10,000 times greater now. And it is not just about whether an elected official leads a virtuous life. The NSA and CIA are rogue operations. They are accountable to nobody. They play by nobody else's rules. They are in a position to put any President over the barrel, with threats to mess up any of the goals the President might want to accomplish, or to create world instability that will result in a loss in the next election.

[Logical]

3. NSA defenders, remind us they just want us to be safe!! Nt

[G_j]

5. nothing to fear

just don't protest wars, Monsanto, Keystone, don't join Greenpeace, Code Pink, etc., etc., etc..

[riqster]

6. We shall be ever so very safe, locked in the cage they have built.

And monitored constantly while in there.

Oh yes, so very safe...

[bvar22]

7. DURec.

Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

Secret Laws/Secret Courts and Democracy can not co-exist.

Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.

[riqster]

8. Instead of "an informed electorate", we have

"Uninformed electorate". A small change in spelling, a huge difference for our nation.

[TroglodyteScholar]

9. Kick

This is truly significant....

[riqster]

10. Oh hellz yeah.

Piss on the populace, that's one thing. But they have pissed on the plutocrats.

Shit's gonna get real.

[TroglodyteScholar]

16. It's amazing how these power struggles play out

The individual seems almost lost in the current discussion, but I'll take the opportunity to recommend self-empowerment through free and open source software:

Free Software Foundation
Debian Linux
Ubuntu Linux
Linux Mint
Mageia Linux

[riqster]

19. Good stuff.

[BelgianMadCow]

33. You might like this link then, if you like open source

https://prism-break.org/

It's an excellent collection of (where possible) open source alternatives to PRISM companies, their products and services.

For Apple, unfortunately, it says "No alternative"...

[LiberalArkie]

38. Don't forget SE Linux, produced by the NSA.

They make a lot of contributions to Linux.

[TroglodyteScholar]

48. "They make a lot of contributions to Linux...."

...that everyone is free to inspect before using....

SELinux

[Blue_Tires]

11. the tech industry is just trying to distance themselves

because their quarterly profits will go to shit once it comes out that they were business partners with the NSA...

[riqster]

12. They are already getting kicked in the wedding tackle.

European business partners are doing the kicking-they have stringent privacy laws over there, and due to the NSA, American tech firms are not able to guarantee compliance.

[closeupready]

34. Yup. +1000. Glad to see I'm not the only one

who's figured that out.

[Progressive dog]

13. Not only from 2008 but not even designed then

according to the actual paper released. In fact, the paper looks like a sales proposal, not even an actual project.
Then of course there is the slight problem of access to the phones.
More crap from the Obama hating criminal in Russia and his helpers.

[JEB]

14. Clash of the money grubbers:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-lauria/history-of-fear-threat-terrorism-us_b_4510900.html

[Progressive dog]

17. I don't see why another repetitive opinion

piece changes fiction to truth. Anyone who reads the original paper knows that it is from 2008 (pre President Obama), that it had not actually been developed, and that access to the device would be required to install the software (once software actually existed).

[Maedhros]

23. Your user name is not even close to representing your political views.

You may wish to change it to something more appropriate to avoid confusion.

[Progressive dog]

24. You don't have a clue what progressive means,

as a hint, it is not synonymous with Libertarian, anarchist, or conspiracy theorist. Since Progressives actually want government to help advance progress, they are unlikely to look for fictitious reasons to justify hating their own government.

[Maedhros]

26. Ah! So "Progressive" means "slavish devotion to authority."

Wow - you're right! I thought it meant something entirely different.

[Progressive dog]

28. Well that stupidity and name caling certainly proves your point

whatever it was.

[Maedhros]

52. Commentary such as "More crap from the Obama hating criminal in Russia and his helpers"

does not warrant otherwise. Classic deflection designed to hijack discussion away from the abuses by the NSA toward squabbles over Snowden's hypothetical motivations.

[Progressive dog]

53. I pointed out the crap first and didn't call you names

but I get it, attacking Snowden-Greenwald or Libertarian dishonest hype is not allowed. Get a grip.

[Maedhros]

54. Ad Hominem arguments are not allowed in a reasonable debate, no. [n/t]

[riqster]

31. Not what I wrote.

I wrote about the tech industry and the populace hating the NSA for what they did after the Bushies made "presumed innocent" an inapplicable doctrine WRT to these laws.

Not a peep from me about hating Obama, or any technical claims.

[Progressive dog]

40. Yes you did , you gave the link

and now you are claiming not only that Apple hates the NSA but that the tech industry and the populace (of someplace) hate the NSA.
I'm sure you do, but you are not the tech industry or the populace.

[WillyT]

15. K & R !!!

[Vashta Nerada]

18. All fauxrage from Apple.

They knew it all along. How could they NOT know? They're just trying to cover their asses so the fanboys won't ditch their products.

[riderinthestorm]

36. I actually agree with this. I think the tech companies colluded and are now in CYA mode nt

[woo me with science]

50. Thank you. Our problem is the marriage of corporations and government,

also known as corporate fascism.

[blkmusclmachine]

20. NSA, plumbing the depths

[progressoid]

25. But if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about.

It's doubleplusgood.

[riqster]

29. Winston!

[BelgianMadCow]

35. Room 101 for you

the mere reference! Please excercise doublethink.

[dchill]

27. "They hate us for our freedoms."

Who are the terriss now?

[Agnosticsherbet]

30. The NSA works for the administration in power.

We should not forget that.
This is not just Blowback from a Bushistas failure.

As a corporate entity, I don't feel all cuddly and warm about apple, either.

[riqster]

39. The laws enabling this behavior are from the Bush Occupation.

Until the laws are changed, we have to hope that whatever administration happens to be in power is 100 % holy, pure, and good. Not likely, so the laws need changed. That is the only way to fix the issue. Remember: much of what the NSA has been doing is technically legal.

And yeah, fuck Apple too.

[BlueStreak]

47. I think you have that ass-backwards

Administrations come and go because they stand for elections. The security state answers to none of them -- or us.

Notice how little of Bush's policies actually changed. Notice how quickly and how high Obama jumps when they tel him to jump to the defense of the security state.

It is the tail wagging the dog. When we are talking about the really important issues, elections are mostly for show.

[closeupready]

32. You are a fool if you believe Apple is being honest.

I haven't really followed the Snowden affair all that closely, but I have ZERO doubt that Apple, Facebook, and all the rest worked very closely with the surveillance state in terms of what Snowden's revelations have uncovered.

This is Cover Your Ass Kabuki Theater. Nothing more.

All just my humble opinion.

[riderinthestorm]

37. Agreed. I think the tech companies colluded and are now in CYA mode nt

[riqster]

41. Who cares if Apple is being honest?

If their messaging helps to dial back these privacy violations, I don't care if it's kabuki theatre or broadway.

[closeupready]

42. You should care, if you object to NSA's overreach.

Duh.

[riqster]

44. The solution is to repeal all of the laws put in place

By the Bushistas - that is the root of this evil.

Businesses lying, that is the usual.

Agencies using regs to expand their reach and influence, same thing.

As long as the patriot act and all of its bastard children remain in force, this issue cannot be dealt with.

[closeupready]

45. I have never, and do not now, share your complacency

with regard to lack of business ethics.

I do share your enthusiasm for repealing the Patriot Act.

[riqster]

46. It's not complacency. More like embittered cynicism.

And in this case, the cure for any of Apple's actions in this matter is also the repeal of those same laws. If the government cannot go all big brother on our mobile devices, the tech firms have no such crimes to enable.

[spin]

49. In my opinion the only way to reign in government agencies when they violate the privacy rights ...

of citizens is first for Congress to write laws that set clear restrictions and second to send those who approve illegal searches to jail.

The average citizen may have little to fear from these surveillance programs but those who exercise their free speech rights to criticize our government may. Our free press will also be hampered as reporters will fear the consequence of reporting news that may embarrass the administration no matter if it is Republican or Democratic. A politician may be forced to cast to vote in support of a program he opposes as if he doesn't his career may be destroyed by information discovered by monitoring all his communications and tracking his every movement.

Obviously J. Edger Hoover would have loved the power obtained by having detailed access to information on every citizen. Even though he lack the ability he would have today, he was known as the most powerful man in Washington for years as he knew the dirty secrets of many members of Congress.

"Tricky" Dick Nixon could have used data uncovered by the NSA to silence Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein from publishing the Watergate Papers.

The Founding Fathers had good reason to include the Fourth Amendment in the Bill of Rights.

The NSA's "General Warrants":
How the Founding Fathers Fought an 18th Century Version of the President's Illegal Domestic Spying
By David Snyder

The technology powering the National Security Agency’s illegal domestic spying program would have amazed James Madison and the other framers of the Bill of Rights. In a time when the steamboat was a technological marvel, it would have been unimaginable for the government to collect millions of innocent Americans' private communications and use computers to look for "suspicious patterns."

But aside from the technology, the government’s ongoing violation of fundamental civil liberties would have been very familiar to the men who gathered in 1791 to adopt the Bill of Rights. The Founding Fathers battled an 18th century version of the wholesale surveillance that the government is accused of doing today – an expansive abuse of power by King George II and III that invaded the colonists’ communications privacy.

Using "writs of assistance," the King authorized his agents to carry out wide- ranging searches of anyone, anywhere, and anytime regardless of whether they were suspected of a crime. These "hated writs"1 spurred colonists toward revolution2 and directly motivated James Madison's crafting of the Fourth Amendment.
https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/att/generalwarrantsmemo.pdf

Used properly with good control, government surveillance might be a positive tactic to stop crime or stop a terrorist attack. Unfortunately if it is abused, we will no longer live in a free nation.

[chungking34]

51. The NSA is a vile, corrupt institution

It is a far bigger threat to the United States than Al Qaeda could ever hope to be.