Florida Will Soon Have More People Than New York

[xchrom]

http://www.businessinsider.com/florida-will-soon-have-more-people-than-new-york-2014-1

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — Sometime this year, Florida will surpass New York in population, becoming the nation's third-most populous state, and sun-seeking seniors are not driving the growth.

The milestone is validation of the sometimes messy but increasing influence of the Sunshine State as it approaches being home to 20 million residents at a time that historians may one day say was pivotal in the country's history. Once Florida passes New York, only California and Texas will have more residents.

"Florida is kind of an icon of the 21st century in terms of the shifting population and the growing role Latin America is playing in transforming the country," said James Johnson, a business professor at the University of North Carolina. "I think it's going to be for the 21st century what California or New York was for the 20th century."

Florida encompasses many trends in America: an aging population, a service-oriented economy with many low-wage jobs and an ethnic diversity propelled by Hispanic growth. Like the United States, Florida is a haven for migrants and people making fresh starts, and the state's 29 electoral votes are the nation's most coveted given Florida is the nation's largest swing state. Florida also has myriad problems, some the result of its explosive growth, which must be addressed for the state to keep thriving.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/florida-will-soon-have-more-people-than-new-york-2014-1#ixzz2pL64esS2

[hobbit709]

1. They better all learn to swim.

[CFLDem]

2. Thankfully the population is more evenly spread out

compared to Illinois, so it really doesn't seem so crowded👍

[LuvNewcastle]

3. There are a lot of downsides to an economy like that.

There's no sense of permanence. Everybody and everything is expendable. A lot of the jobs are tipped positions, so you always have to smile and be nice. You're left with the feeling that everything is a shallow, tacky sham. I've been there and done that in my town, and I'm determined never to go back to a service industry job. It's fine for young people to do for a few years while they're in school, but you don't want to build a career on it, and you certainly don't want to build an economy around it.

[TBF]

4. Makes sense with the Baby Boom generation aging -

Texas has been gaining population too.

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/population/cb11-215.html

[aikoaiko]

5. Florida will soon have more New Yorkers than New York.

[LisaLynne]

6. Ha, yes.

Someone from Florida once told me that no one living in Florida is actually FROM Florida.

[lpbk2713]

13. I read a statistic on that once.

Something like only 20% of the adult population in Florida were actually born in Florida.

[Blue_Tires]

19. I was in Daytona for a job interview once

I swear a third of the locals I met and spoke with had the most over-the-top cartoonish Joisey/Brooklynese accents I'd ever come across...

[csziggy]

30. A few were but most of those who were born here have parents who weren't

Both my husband and I were born in Florida, but none of our parents were. His were from Minneapolis, mine from Michigan and Alabama. My Dad comes close, though - his parents moved to Florida in 1925 when he was only two years old.

I've known a very few people whose families have been in Florida for generations, some as early as before the Civil War. One girl who went to high school with me was descended from a family whose progenitor had fought in the Seminole Wars then returned to settle the area he had seen during the wars.

[HockeyMom]

7. My daughter left Florida after 4 months

She was here from November through Feburary. "Enough with all this HEAT". Same with this Senior. We moved here for my husband's job. When we can afford to retire, we are both out of here. While my husband doesn't like snow (I do),bck to NY, we might just move somewhere a bit farther North to have SOME kind of winter. I do not like Summer and never have.

[Thor_MN]

8. Once it starts flooding that will change.

Florida's reign will be a relatively short one.

[former9thward]

10. You have got to be kidding.

No scenario claims that.

[Thor_MN]

11. Try a little google before you make claims like that

Or if you want to only consider the next few years, feel free to continue to believe that beach front property in FL is a good investment.

Florida is already losing acreage. If you consider how low it is to seal level, it should be obvious that are going to be one of, if not the, hardest hit states.

BTW, your screen name seems ironic in light of your comment.

[former9thward]

12. My screen name has nothing to do with NO.

It refers to a minor elected office I once held in Chicago. I am not making a claim. You are. If google would help it you would have used it. It does not.

[Thor_MN]

14. Google does help me. It is filled with links to sea level change.

Florida is losing land. That is the fact and all your bluster can't change that. Add in what will happen as ocean water intrudes on the aquifers and Florida will losing population within decades.

[former9thward]

16. "Within decades"

I thought it was " a few years." If google helped your claims that FL was going to be flooded out you would have posted links. You don't because no one credible says that. Only internet posters.

[Thor_MN]

22. Please take a reading comprehension class. Seriously.

I said "if you want to only consider the next few years" emphasis on the YOU.

I suggested that you back your claim "No scenario claims that. " by trying Google.

Florida is going to lose land to sea level rise. Only the idiots in (North or South) Carolina believe that sea level is not rising and try to stick their heads in the sand by attempting legislate it out of existence.

You would be free to join them, but is sounds like you already have

[former9thward]

24. Again no science based links... YOU are the one making the claim.

You have none. What does "Florida is going to lose land to sea level rise" mean? If the sea level rises and takes two feet of land will you claim victory? Anti-science nonsense.

[Thor_MN]

26. I AM a scientist.

I made a common sense observation that is supported by the serious science.

You are making the anti-science claim that Florida will lose no land due to sea level rise.

The only people claiming that sea level will not rise are the people that make fortunes off of technology that contributes to climate change and the people that are paid to dispute climate change. Well those and the idiots who believe that humans can not affect the environment.

[former9thward]

29. Ok, Mr. "Scientist."

You posted the claim that "Florida's reign will be a relatively short one." Pretty vague words for a scientist. What do you mean by "reign" and what do you mean by "a relatively short one."? Are you keeping your answers vague so if anything happens at any point in the future you will say you are right?

Show me a peer-reviewed article which states FL will lose population due to flooding. Isn't that what you saying by your posts? Come on Mr. Scientist. It should be easy, right?

[Thor_MN]

33. I know of no study that calims Floria will lose population due to flooding.

That is my prediction. My opinion. You are free to have the idiotic belief that Florida will lose no land to sea level rise.

There are so many articles that show Florida will lose land that only a climate change denier could possibly be ignorant of them.

That being said, I think we have reached the point where further discussion is ridiculous. Feel free to reply with another post devoid of fact, I'm done with you.

[Vashta Nerada]

15. Um, global warming claims that.

Miami will be completely under water.

[former9thward]

17. Ummm, global warming does not "claim that."

You do. Link to where Miami will be "completely under water."

[Vashta Nerada]

18. Wow.

A simple google search will show you.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jul/29/climate-new-york-boston-miami-sea-level

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-city-of-miami-is-doomed-to-drown-20130620

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/06/23/2199031/scientist-miami-as-we-know-it-today-is-doomed-its-not-a-question-of-if-its-a-question-of-when/

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21011801757652/

First four links on google. It wasn't that hard.

[former9thward]

20. LOL

The Rolling Stones' article is a fiction piece -- didn't catch that did you? The think progress article is based on the Rolling Stone fiction piece.

The other two do NOT support your claims that Miami will be "completely underwater." They talk vaguely about the barrier islands, beachfront property, etc. And they are very vague on dates. Some say 2060, 2100 and "sometime after that".. Even if all the vague predictions come true someday -- what moron thinks people will just sit around and not do something about it? Most of the Netherlands would be underwater but they did something about it using 1500s technology!

We aren't capable of doing anything? Nonsense.

[Vashta Nerada]

21. Woah.

Took you a few minutes to read four articles, huh?

They all went way over your head.

Read them again and get back to me.

Vague dates. Sure. Ignore them.



BTW, the Rolling Stone article is based on real scientific evidence.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/11/14/207032/sea-level-rise-planning-coastal-infrastructure/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/broward-county-rising-sea-level-plan_n_1878406.html

[former9thward]

23. There are no scientists making your claims.

Yes I did read the articles in a few minutes. I can read quickly.

You have linked to reporters who have no science background or knowledge. They are simply writing speculative stories to gain attention. It worked with you.

Show me a scientist who says "Miami will be completely underwater." -- Your claim... Even your non-science speculative reporters don't say that.

[Vashta Nerada]

27. Okay. My third grader niece just got this.

Miami is five feet above sea level. Many climate change models show that the oceans will rise by seven feet by 2100.

What will happen to Miami?

Re-read the think progress link I posted in my last post. The graphs are from PNAS. What's PNAS? Proceedings for the National Academy of Sciences. Do scientists post there?

You didn't even read the Rolling Stone article. If you did, you would have read this:

The latest research, including an assessment by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, suggests that sea level could rise more than six feet by the end of the century.

Does NOAA employ scientists? I forgot.

I don't appreciate being talked to like I'm an idiot. I know what I'm talking about on this subject. I'm writing a thesis on paleoclimatology.

[former9thward]

32. I think your thesis adviser is going to have a job on his/her hands...

When I was writing my thesis they didn't accept articles from Rolling Stone. Maybe they do now.

I don't know how far sea levels will rise or in what time period and no one else does either. That is why all the dates are vague and all over the place as well as predictions in how high it would go. What I do know is that those preditions are constantly changing and different scientists say different things. I also know is that it will not happen overnight. People will adapt and cope with it.

They did it in the Netherlands in the 1500s so we can do it now a whole lot better.

[Vashta Nerada]

35. Rolling Stone got their data from NOAA.

If you would have read the article, it explained that. I wasn't aware I had to use JSTOR, WorldCat, or Science Direct to provide you with articles, especially on an internet discussion forum.

I don't like your condescending attitude. I'm finished with you.

[hollysmom]

28. not to butt in, but

There are a million links that say in 100 years Florida will lose a lot of land and will lose Miami because of topological reasons - far more worrying is that the aquifers are already being impinged by salt water as the seal level rises.
I have friends living in Florida, and they are all inland and happy about it. one says she will live long enough to have a beachfront house.
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2010/07/rising_sea_levels_miami_will_b.php

New York can have a sea wall with the harbor, not sure how it would work with the fault line (L subway gets realigned regularly) but it is built on granite. Miami is built on porous material and is an island surrounded by water. Low areas already flood regularly during full moon high tides, it will not be long before it floods during regular high tides.
Lived on an island and know how vulnerable they are.

Also endangered is the fresh water source of the everglades. So long before land is lost, water will be a matter of contention.

[former9thward]

31. A million links?

But no one can post any science peer reviewed articles supporting the highly speculative claims made in this thread. Including you.

one says she will live long enough to have a beachfront house. Is she a climate scientist? Or just making predictions based on what she reads on the internet?

I live in AZ and people are always saying they will have beachfront property when CA falls into the sea because of a quake. More nonsense.

[hollysmom]

36. the link I posted was based on a scientific study, you can read it for your scientific link.

my friends lived in Florida a long time and their belief is based on their own observation, not scientific, but anecdotal and personally experienced. If you want more anecdotal here is a link about flooding increasing in Miami. http://grist.org/cities/2011-10-26-underwater-cities-climate-change-begins-reshape-urban-landscape/ Wish I could find the link to the video they are talking about.

Aquifer Florida - http://waterquality.ifas.ufl.edu/Water%20primer/Underground%20water/Underground.htm
this study mentions the limestone and porousness and the the problems with providing enough water for the population now.

Aquifer depletion is a serious problem in Florida and the United States. Coastal communities in the state are often affected as our increasing population demands more water. As more fresh water is pumped and its supply is depleted, salt water from the ocean is drawn into the wells resulting in contamination. Also, the depletion of deeper aquifers may be permanent where the weight of overlying sediments causes the aquifer to compress as the water is pumped out. The aquifer would therefore never again be fully recharged even if pumping ceased, because its capacity to store water has been reduced. This occurs in areas of high water demand such as large municipalities and agricultural operations that require heavy irrigation.

there is more stuff. Can I link to a definitive study. Well I did last time, I just could only read the articles based on it not the original article. Right now, there is so much out there, it will take time to wade through it all and bring you what you need for proof. if you are that interested, feel free to search through google. I have to shovel snow.

[Thor_MN]

25. Consider the topology of the Netherlands vs. Florida.

Florida is a peninsula. Building a seawall around the entire perimeter is highly impractical. The amount of land saved vs. linear mileage of seawall is minute compared to the Netherlands.

[csziggy]

34. If "No scenario claims that" why are NOAA and other groups planning for it?

Adapting to Sea Level Rise in Miami-Dade County, Florida - http://www.csc.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/stories/slr-miamidade

The Southeast Florida Regional Climate Change Compact was executed by Broward, Miami-Dade, Monroe, and Palm Beach Counties in January 2010 to coordinate mitigation and adaptation activities across county lines. http://southeastfloridaclimatecompact.org/who-we-are/

Sea Level Rise Summit 2013 - http://www.ces.fau.edu/SLR2013/

A visual representation of predicted rise based on NASA data: http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/florida.shtml
Explanation of how it was created: http://blog.firetree.net/2006/05/18/more-about-flood-maps/

If you want peer reviewed articles here is the mother lode which includes peer reviewed articles and governmental studies intended to assist planning: http://research.fit.edu/sealevelriselibrary/
Here are a few from there:
http://research.fit.edu/sealevelriselibrary/documents/doc_mgr/446/South_Fl_Storm_Surge_Projections_&_Water_Management_-_Park_et_al._2011.pdf
http://research.fit.edu/sealevelriselibrary/documents/doc_mgr/446/Municipal_Vulnerability_&_SLR_-_Parkinson_&_McCue_2011.pdf
http://research.fit.edu/sealevelriselibrary/documents/doc_mgr/446/Palm_Beach_Co._Adaptation_Strategies_for_SLR_-_Volk_2008.pdf

[Vashta Nerada]

37. Don't worry.

That poster will ignore your links.

[csziggy]

38. True - but he can't complain they have not been provided

Proving that he is a climate denier or possibly a troll.

NOTE - I am not accusing him of being a troll, just that it is a possibility.

[former9thward]

39. Go ahead and accuse me.

The last one to do that is gone and I didn't even alert on him/her.

[former9thward]

40. NONE of your links state Miami "will be completely underwater."

That is the statement which started this whole sub-thread. I like dealing in science not hyperbole by internet science wannabees.

[csziggy]

41. That was NOT the original statement in the sub-thread to which you responded

The original statement by Thor_MN was:

Once it starts flooding that will change.

Florida's reign will be a relatively short one.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4270366

The strongest statement Thor_MN made was

Florida is already losing acreage. If you consider how low it is to seal level, it should be obvious that are going to be one of, if not the, hardest hit states.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4270464

Vashta Nerada made that statement in a sub to this sub-thread - and I was NOT responding in that sub-sub-thread. I responded to your original response to Thor_MN.

[former9thward]

43. Nope.

Miami will be completely under water. #15 -- this sub thread.

The strongest statement that Thor_MN made was that FL will lose population because of the flooding. That is why the "reign" will be a relatively short one.

I reject both those claims and find no scientific evidence that backs either one.

People adapt and have been for tens of thousands of years of changing conditions. So we shall this time. Only this time our resources and technology is far superior to the Dutch who saved their country in the 1500s.

[Phentex]

9. I knew that boycott wouldn't work!

[Aerows]

42. And they won't be any smarter than they are now. n/t

[darkangel218]

45. Hey now!!

[darkangel218]

44. As long as they all go to South FL, and leave our forests and wild life alone

I'm ok with it.